Ryan "Rick" Bates Watch Thread

[MrEpsYtown]

10 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I mentioned Bates playing next to brown as opposed to Dawkins in a previous thread.  It’s something that isn’t being discussed very much and I think it could have played a part in his tender and possibly moving on from him.  I have confidence that Beane will plug the hole properly, but still worried because Ford is currently the place holder.  
 

trai Turner played ok last year.  Maybe him on a 1 year 3-4M contract could be beneficial for both the player and team

I would’ve gone 2nd rd too…..but maybe they are looking for an upgrade.  I’m hoping anyway. 

 

I guess the tender probably means that either they are looking for an upgrade, or they are confident they can match any offer that isn't ridiculous. 

[NewEra]

8 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

That would suck… they’ve really done very little to upgrade a bad unit losing Bates wouldn’t help.

Find it hard to believe they still have faith in Ford… little disturbing actually… have to imagine they’ll load up on offensive line in the draft.

Agreed.  But they’ve done a tremendous job of upgrading the DL and adding 3 solid playmakers in Oj, Crowder and Duke.  For at most 8.5M between the 3 of them. I’m confident that he’ll fill RG properly.

 

I don’t believe that they have much faith in him, but he’s just on top of the depth chart because he’s the only guy.  The wildcard in the ford situation is Kromer.  If Kromer says he can make Ford into a player and that he can fit the bill, we could be in trouble.  That’s said…. I highly doubt Kromer would say that and Ford will probably be a backup battling for a roster spot.  I just don’t think there’s any evidence that would indicate they have faith in him.  

Edited March 22, 2022 by NewEra

[letsgoteam]

9 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Agreed.  But they’ve done a tremendous job of upgrading the DL and adding 3 solid playmakers in Oj, Crowder and Duke.  For at most 8.5M between the 3 of them. I’m confident that he’ll fill RG properly.

 

I don’t believe that they have much faith in him, but he’s just on top of the depth chart because he’s the only guy.  The wildcard in the ford situation is Kromer.  If Kromer says he can make Ford into a player and that he can fit the bill, we could be in trouble.  That’s said…. I highly doubt Kromer would say that and Ford will probably be a backup battling for a roster spot.  I just don’t think there’s any evidence that would indicate they have faith in him.  

Agreed. I think they are just riding out his rookie contract hoping he can turn the corner and become something.

[MrEpsYtown]

4 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Agreed.  But they’ve done a tremendous job of upgrading the DL and adding 3 solid playmakers in Oj, Crowder and Duke.  For at most 8.5M between the 3 of them. I’m confident that he’ll fill RG properly.

 

I don’t believe that they have much faith in him, but he’s just on top of the depth chart because he’s the only guy.  The wildcard in the ford situation is Kromer.  If Kromer says he can make Ford into a player and that he can fit the bill, we could be in trouble.  That’s said…. I highly doubt Kromer would say that and Ford will probably be a backup battling for a roster spot.  I just don’t think there’s any evidence that would indicate they have faith in him.  

 

So apparently it was Kromer who was banging the table for Corbett in LA. When you look at the RAS, Ford is above average and Corbett is really good. Aside from a bad 3 cone and shuttle, the numbers on these two guys are closer than I thought. If Kromer truly believes that he can turn Ford into a serviceable player, I believe him, but I hope they have some insurance that isn't Mancz. If the Jets release Greg Van Roten, I think they will be all over that. 

 

[GunnerBill]

41 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Told by whom?

 

 

 

 

A Bears fan. 

[MrEpsYtown]

Maybe future RG? Sorry about the Jets Logo

 

And just to torture myself: 

 

 

Turner: 

 

 

Will Hernandez: 

Edited March 22, 2022 by MrEpsYtown

[Hapless Bills Fan]

42 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

I guess the tender probably means that either they are looking for an upgrade, or they are confident they can match any offer that isn't ridiculous. 

 

I agree that's what it means.  As someone else pointed, the Bears just signed a 28 year old C from Green Bay with 34 NFL starts for 2 years, $4M/year.  I think the Bills view their max offer on Bates as lower than that (the $3.98M 2nd round tender being pretty much that)

 

28 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

A Bears fan. 

 

A Bears fan who has any insider connections, or a Bears fan who is part of the "legitimately crazed fanbase" Brad Spielberger references as "ready to fire Brad Poole if he doesn't sign a guy whose name they learned 24 hrs ago"?

[Rico]

31 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

Maybe future RG? Sorry about the Jets Logo

 

And just to torture myself: 

 

 

Turner: 

 

 

Will Hernandez: 

Van Roten could be the next Brian Winters… or maybe even Vlad Ducasse.

[Special K]

13 minutes ago, Rico said:

 Vlad Ducasse.

 

What I think of when I see that name:

 

 

The Turnstile!!

Edited March 22, 2022 by Special K

[BillsShredder83]

I really wanted Bates back atleast as depth. This team turned a corner when he came in, although I won't claim to know it was or wasn't coincidence......

That said, are we really on page 19 for Rick? Do something alreadyyyyyy

[SCBills]

NGL, reading through Twitter.. did not expect Ryan Bates to be this hot of a commodity.

[Warcodered]

31 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

A Bears fan who has any insider connections, or a Bears fan who is part of the "legitimately crazed fanbase" Brad Spielberger references as "ready to fire Brad Poole if he doesn't sign a guy whose name they learned 24 hrs ago"?

Or maybe a fan of something else?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, NewEra said:

It should be a major priority even if we retain him imo.  Saffold will probably be gone after we win the SB.  He was banged up last season too.  Bates has 33 career snaps @ RG.  I’d draft an OG in rd 1-3 no matter what. 

 

I completely agree with this.  Saffold at age 33 coming off a shoulder injury is a reasonable short- term upgrade to Williams, but in No Way a "long term plan" at OG.  We need to upgrade in the draft.

 

16 minutes ago, Special K said:

 

What I think of when I see that name:

 

 

The Turnstile!!

 

I think "Vlad the Impaler", myself  He didn't do the impaling, but he sure as heck helped our QB get impaled.

[GunnerBill]

48 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

A Bears fan who has any insider connections, or a Bears fan who is part of the "legitimately crazed fanbase" Brad Spielberger references as "ready to fire Brad Poole if he doesn't sign a guy whose name they learned 24 hrs ago"?

 

I don't think he directly has any insider connections but he generally has his finger on the pulse of the team and the "in the know" twitters. He said their offer is the highest and poison pilled in such a way as to make it v difficult for Buffalo to match. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

18 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't think he directly has any insider connections but he generally has his finger on the pulse of the team and the "in the know" twitters. He said their offer is the highest and poison pilled in such a way as to make it v difficult for Buffalo to match. 

 

Then we likely won't match it.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

https://www.newyorkupstate.com/buffalo-bills/2022/03/multiple-teams-including-patriots-swarming-on-bills-ryan-bates.html

 

Quote

It’s unknown which offer Bates will sign, but it appears that the Patriots are very interested in his services. Evan Lazar of CLNSmedia.com wrote about Bates’ visit which included dinner with Bill Belichick.

 

According to a league source, Bates had a “great visit” with the Patriots, which included dinner on Sunday evening with Bill Belichick and other major decision-makers and continued into Monday. Bates spent a lot of time with Belichick and assistant offensive line coach Billy Yates.

 

Bates will now meet with the Bears on Tuesday, then weigh his options as he plans to sign an offer sheet this week.

 

[KDIGGZ]

Bates would have signed his tender with the Bills but he doesn't like being called Rick

[mannc]

10 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said:

Bates would have signed his tender with the Bills but he doesn't like being called Rick

He probably also didn’t like spending two years riding the bench behind scrubs…

[Coach Tuesday]

For whatever reason they have a really tough time figuring out what to do with guards.  Ford, Teller, now Bates - can you imagine if they let Bates leave and he, like Teller, becomes elite elsewhere?  And they're again looking for a young guard?  Cannot understand the difficulty they have evaluating their own players at IOL.

[Saint Doug]

So far Beane has been relatively neglectful of his number 1 priority of getting Josh protection. 

[Doc]

Can Saffold play RG?  And I think Bates will be back on a 1-year deal, at least.  None of the other teams he visited have a prayer of making the SB next year and he can cash-in next off-season.

[NewEra]

31 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Agree with the playmakers in Crowder and OJ, but I’m a little skeptical of the idea of relying on Saffold, and a rookie interior lineman as their plan for improvement upfront… unfortunately that’s the alternative when you invest so much into your defense…. Hopefully whoever steps in is an upgrade to what they had last season.

I hear ya.  I’ll be skeptical on RG.  Saffold wasn’t my first choice but I feel that he’ll be ok.  He’s one of the best short yardage OGs in the league.  We should be getting 2-5 yards on every Qb sneak.  I expect us to play to his strengths.  
 

RG, If it’s a 1st or 2nd rd pick, I’ll be more comfortable with it but it depends on the player.  If they turn into Cody Ford, we may have screwed up our title hopes

[Coach Tuesday]

3 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I hear ya.  I’ll be skeptical on RG.  Saffold wasn’t my first choice but I feel that he’ll be ok.  He’s one of the best short yardage OGs in the league.  We should be getting 2-5 yards on every Qb sneak.  I expect us to play to his strengths.  
 

RG, If it’s a 1st or 2nd rd pick, I’ll be more comfortable with it but it depends on the player.  If they turn into Cody Ford, we may have screwed up our title hopes

 

If they let Bates walk and draft a RG in Round 1 it will be a sad development.

[Motor26]

26 minutes ago, Saint Doug said:

So far Beane has been relatively neglectful of his number 1 priority of getting Josh protection. 

They definitely need to add at least 1 IOL who can play both guard spots and center and a tackle who can also play guard in the draft, especially if they lose Bates.

[HurlyBurly51]

Should've tendered him higher.  He gone.  

[YoloinOhio]

27 minutes ago, Doc said:

Can Saffold play RG?  And I think Bates will be back on a 1-year deal, at least.  None of the other teams he visited have a prayer of making the SB next year and he can cash-in next off-season.

He said that he can play either side but Beane indicated he will be next to Dion and he said he’s been told LG

10 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

If they let Bates walk and draft a RG in Round 1 it will be a sad development.

Why would they need to replace a backup level OG with a 1st rd pick. Mind you I don’t mind a G at 25 because the Bills have not invested at all at G in the draft except for late round picks. Late 1st is a great place to hopefully take a starting caliber G. But bates is not really a starter. He had to play like 2.5 games by default. 

Edited March 22, 2022 by YoloinOhio

[Hapless Bills Fan]

23 minutes ago, Doc said:

Can Saffold play RG?  And I think Bates will be back on a 1-year deal, at least.  None of the other teams he visited have a prayer of making the SB next year and he can cash-in next off-season.

 

I think for a young guy looking for financial security from his "Not For Long" career, he can't afford sentiment or concern for championships.

If he gets the chance for more guaranteed money and more $$ this year, he has to take it, because all these guys are one injury away from having to fight their way back onto a roster (Boettger, Zimmer)

[YoloinOhio]

Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I think for a young guy looking for financial security from his "Not For Long" career, he can't afford sentiment or concern for championships.

If he gets the chance for more guaranteed money and more $$ this year, he has to take it, because all these guys are one injury away from having to fight their way back onto a roster (Boettger, Zimmer)

That’s exactly what Beane says about these guys. Go out and find the best deal you can. You’ve earned that right. If you don’t find something great you can come back at X amount. 

[Doc]

4 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

He said that he can play either side but Beane indicated he will be next to Dion and he said he’s been told LG  

Kinda figured. I guess the question is: can Bates play RG?  It might be why they allowed him to leave they feel he can’t do it as well. 

[billsfan1959]

10 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

If they let Bates walk and draft a RG in Round 1 it will be a sad development.

 

If they select a Guard with the 25th pick, it will have nothing to do with whether or not Bates stays. Bates is a good backup. He is not the future at LG or RG.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Why would they need to replace a backup level OG with a 1st rd pick. Mind you I don’t mind a G at 25 because the Bills have not invested at all at G in the draft except for late round picks. Late 1st is a great place to take a G

 

Wasn't Ford a high 2nd round investment?  Not that I'm saying he was a GOOD investment at this point, mind you - but the point is, we can't say the Bills have not invested at all in G except for late round picks, when they did invest a 2nd on Ford.

 

I agree we need a good draft investment in G, but not to "replace Bates"

 

 

3 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

 But bates is not really a starter. He had to play like 2.5 games by default. 

 

I like Bates, who started 6 games (one he didn't play very long) if we count the playoffs - and why wouldn't we count the playoffs?  I think the OL played better with him at LG.

 

Nevertheless, it's not a huge sample to use as a basis for counting on a guy as a long term OL starter, and neither is a 1 yr contract to an older vet (Saffold).  So I think we'd better be making another Serious Draft Investment at G.

 

I think the thinking about "oh no we need a high draft pick to replace Bates" sees there as being some sort of coaching grudge or stupidity or oversight which had Bates starting the season as #3 on the depth chart and only playing after the 2 guys ahead of him got hurt.

 

[Coach Tuesday]

6 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

If they select a Guard with the 25th pick, it will have nothing to do with whether or not Bates stays. Bates is a good backup. He is not the future at LG or RG.

 

Agree with that.  But there is zero reason to draft a guard in round 1 like ever.  Doing so while also losing a potential cheap depth option would be two mistakes.

[YoloinOhio]

8 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Wasn't Ford a high 2nd round investment?  Not that I'm saying he was a GOOD investment at this point, mind you - but the point is, we can't say the Bills have not invested at all in G except for late round picks, when they did invest a 2nd on Ford.

 

I agree we need a good draft investment in G, but not to "replace Bates"

 

 

 

I like Bates, who started 6 games (one he didn't play very long) if we count the playoffs - and why wouldn't we count the playoffs?  I think the OL played better with him at LG.

 

Nevertheless, it's not a huge sample to use as a basis for counting on a guy as a long term OL starter, and neither is a 1 yr contract to an older vet (Saffold).  So I think we'd better be making another Serious Draft Investment at G.

 

I think the thinking about "oh no we need a high draft pick to replace Bates" sees there as being some sort of coaching grudge or stupidity or oversight which had Bates starting the season as #3 on the depth chart and only playing after the 2 guys ahead of him got hurt.

 

Ford was drafted to be a RT

15 minutes ago, Doc said:

Kinda figured. I guess the question is: can Bates play RG?  It might be why they allowed him to leave they feel he can’t do it as well. 

Yes he can. He can actually play any position on the OL which is why the Bills traded for him. Bates really is a great 3rd guard, or swing guard. He has good technique, but rarely pancakes defenders. The Bills really need a push on the offensive line to convert 3rd-and-short. That's why they got Rodger Saffold.

Edited March 22, 2022 by YoloinOhio

[Hapless Bills Fan]

15 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Ford was drafted to be a RT

 

Hmmm, I see your point now, but I'll have to work through how I think about it.

 

15 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Yes he can. He can actually play any position on the OL which is why the Bills traded for him. Bates really is a great 3rd guard, or swing guard. He has good technique, but rarely pancakes defenders. The Bills really need a push on the offensive line to convert 3rd-and-short. That's why they got Rodger Saffold.

 

I don't know who this guy is, but he seems impressed with Bates:

 

On the other hand, he doesn't seem to have too much insight into the Bills roster:

 

For those unfamiliar, James Daniels is a former 2nd round pick by the Bears who started 48 of 54 games for the Bears (had a pec tear one season).  He just signed a three-year, $26.5 million contract with the Steelers.

[MrEpsYtown]

1 hour ago, Coach Tuesday said:

For whatever reason they have a really tough time figuring out what to do with guards.  Ford, Teller, now Bates - can you imagine if they let Bates leave and he, like Teller, becomes elite elsewhere?  And they're again looking for a young guard?  Cannot understand the difficulty they have evaluating their own players at IOL.

It’s just stupid coaching nepotism with Feliciano, D. Williams, and extending Spain. It’s really annoying and if there is a wart here, it’s the way they have really screwed that up. And Bates is going to be very good, whether here or somewhere else. He and Ike Boettger should have been our starting guards last year from the get go imo. 

6 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Hmmm, I see your point now, but I'll have to work through how I think about it.

 

 

I don't know who this guy is, but he seems impressed with Bates:

 

On the other hand, he doesn't seem to have too much insight into the Bills roster:

 

For those unfamiliar, James Daniels is a former 2nd round pick by the Bears who started 48 of 54 games for the Bears (had a pec tear one season).  He just signed a three-year, $26.5 million contract with the Steelers.

Daniels is better than Bates, but the difference is not astronomical. They are pretty similar in terms of athleticism etc. Daniels is actually younger but has a lot more experience. 

[jkeerie]

4 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

It’s just stupid coaching nepotism with Feliciano, D. Williams, and extending Spain. It’s really annoying and if there is a wart here, it’s the way they have really screwed that up. And Bates is going to be very good, whether here or somewhere else. He and Ike Boettger should have been our starting guards last year from the get go imo. 

 

That may have been our O line coach, Bobby Johnson.  You wonder why the Giants weren't interested in him.

[MrEpsYtown]

1 minute ago, jkeerie said:

That may have been our O line coach, Bobby Johnson.  You wonder why the Giants weren't interested in him.

That is a great point. With their needs they don’t even sniff Bates, but rush to sign Feliciano and Mark Glowinski. It is weird. 

[Don Otreply]

17 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

His pass blocking has sucked though… and that’s the Bills bread and butter. Still hopeful Beane brings in a good veteran inside, especially if Bates is gone. 

I think Coach lawn chairs has something in mind for the O-line, not worried about run or pass blocking for this upcoming season, but that could just be me…

[Buddo]

17 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Wasn't Ford a high 2nd round investment?  Not that I'm saying he was a GOOD investment at this point, mind you - but the point is, we can't say the Bills have not invested at all in G except for late round picks, when they did invest a 2nd on Ford.

 

I agree we need a good draft investment in G, but not to "replace Bates"

 

 

 

I like Bates, who started 6 games (one he didn't play very long) if we count the playoffs - and why wouldn't we count the playoffs?  I think the OL played better with him at LG.

 

Nevertheless, it's not a huge sample to use as a basis for counting on a guy as a long term OL starter, and neither is a 1 yr contract to an older vet (Saffold).  So I think we'd better be making another Serious Draft Investment at G.

 

I think the thinking about "oh no we need a high draft pick to replace Bates" sees there as being some sort of coaching grudge or stupidity or oversight which had Bates starting the season as #3 on the depth chart and only playing after the 2 guys ahead of him got hurt.

 

 

Well, the last part is pretty much true. Not from a coaching grudge aspect, but from stupidity or oversight.

 

One of the things that gets talked about a lot as regards the O-Line, is that they all need to be on the same page.

 

They pretty much weren't, until the last 3rd of the season, when Bates got the start.

 

Then they were, and it made all the difference in the world.

 

The Bills can no longer operate 'under the radar', when it comes to other teams looking at who we have, and what we do. It's a consequence of success.

 

I don't believe that Beane wants Bates to go, but his preferred way of doing things appears to be to let others set the market.

 

With the higher profile that the Bills now enjoy, I think that's going to become a lot less viable, and it will probably start with losing Bates to an offer we will now (possibly) be unable, or unwilling, to match due to cap constraints.

 

Personally, I would have stuck the 2nd round tender on him. With the level of interest he appears to have generated (at least 3 visits to teams), then if we were to lose him, we would be getting something back. Even if it wasn't a 2nd, we could have possibly done a sign and trade deal for a lesser pick. Which would still equate to something for nothing, and while we briefly would have been on the hook for an extra $1.5 million, at least we aren't just being turned over for nothing.

 

 

[MrEpsYtown]

I know its combine and a while ago, but Bates did 28 reps on the bench and Ford did 19…Which is borderline pathetic for his size. So I would argue there is more power in Bates’ game. Just because he is athletic doesn’t mean he plays a finesse game. 
 

And just because guys like Ford and Feliciano are fat, doesn’t mean they are powerful. Just my 2 cents.