RocCityRoller Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 8 minutes ago, Malazan said: It would have been silly to do it. Whatever Minny offers, he doesn't just leave so why would you lock yourself into giving him more money when it's not likely he'll leave? Would you accept a 2nd round pick for him straight up right now? I sure would. Better than nothing. $3.9 million is not breaking the bank. They spent that on a washed up TE#2. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 6 minutes ago, RocCityRoller said: I sure would. Better than nothing. $3.9 million is not breaking the bank. They spent that on a washed up TE#2. I predict that washed up TE number 2 is going to explode this season 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddo Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 1 minute ago, Malazan said: It would have been silly to do it. Whatever Minny offers, he doesn't just leave so why would you lock yourself into giving him more money when it's not likely he'll leave? Would you accept a 2nd round pick for him straight up right now? It would be a lot easier to find a replacement with a 2nd round pick. It's also a lot less likely that someone would make him an offer, if they have to give up a pick to do it, if successful. The other reality is that if he continues his development, he would command more than the measley $3.9m it was going to cost to keep him here, especially bearing in mind we were on the hook for $2.4m anyway - just by tendering him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malazan Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 (edited) 13 minutes ago, RocCityRoller said: I sure would. Better than nothing. $3.9 million is not breaking the bank. They spent that on a washed up TE#2. 4 minutes ago, Buddo said: It would be a lot easier to find a replacement with a 2nd round pick. It's also a lot less likely that someone would make him an offer, if they have to give up a pick to do it, if successful. The other reality is that if he continues his development, he would command more than the measley $3.9m it was going to cost to keep him here, especially bearing in mind we were on the hook for $2.4m anyway - just by tendering him. Ya'll seem very confused. He doesn't just leave if Minnesota makes him an offer. The Bills can choose to match whatever they offer. You're literally saying they should have tied up 1.5 million of cap space on the slim possibility that cap strapped Minnesota makes him an offer the Bills are unwilling to match. You both just indicated he "unlikely" to be replaced by a 2nd round pick... so again, why definitely tie up 1.5 million in cap space on the low risk someone makes him an offer you're unwilling to match? Edited March 17, 2022 by Malazan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocCityRoller Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 5 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: I predict that washed up TE number 2 is going to explode this season Howard's best season was very Charles Clay like 34-565-5. That was his 2nd season and before injury. As good as medical advancements have been on ACL/ MCL/ PCL (Knee injuries) the recovery rate in the NFL is abysmal for Achilles tears. It seems that we disagree that 1) Ryan Bates is a starting level OG worth $3.9 million, and that 2) OJ Howard is washed up ($3.5 million) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warcodered Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 5 minutes ago, Malazan said: Ya'll seem very confused. He doesn't just leave if Minnesota makes him an offer. The Bills can choose to match whatever they offer. You're literally saying they should have tied up 1.5 million of cap space on the slim possibility that cap strapped Minnesota makes him an offer the Bills are unwilling to match. You both just indicated he "unlikely" to be replaced by a 2nd round pick... so again, why definitely tie up 1.5 million in cap space on the low risk someone makes him an offer you're unwilling to match? Right so to me it seems like it'd be weider if he didn't go out and look for offers, otherwise he's just accepting whatever the Bills are willing to give him at minimum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 2 minutes ago, RocCityRoller said: Howard's best season was very Charles Clay like 34-565-5. That was his 2nd season and before injury. As good as medical advancements have been on ACL/ MCL/ PCL (Knee injuries) the recovery rate in the NFL is abysmal for Achilles tears. It seems that we disagree that 1) Ryan Bates is a starting level OG worth $3.9 million, and that 2) OJ Howard is washed up ($3.5 million) Ryan Bates is worth more then that 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malazan Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 3 minutes ago, RocCityRoller said: Howard's best season was very Charles Clay like 34-565-5. That was his 2nd season and before injury. As good as medical advancements have been on ACL/ MCL/ PCL (Knee injuries) the recovery rate in the NFL is abysmal for Achilles tears. It seems that we disagree that 1) Ryan Bates is a starting level OG worth $3.9 million, and that 2) OJ Howard is washed up ($3.5 million) 1 minute ago, John from Riverside said: Ryan Bates is worth more then that What the heck do you two not understand that the Bills might agree with you, but they had NO REASON to give it to him unless they have to? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 8 minutes ago, Malazan said: Ya'll seem very confused. He doesn't just leave if Minnesota makes him an offer. The Bills can choose to match whatever they offer. You're literally saying they should have tied up 1.5 million of cap space on the slim possibility that cap strapped Minnesota makes him an offer the Bills are unwilling to match. You both just indicated he "unlikely" to be replaced by a 2nd round pick... so again, why definitely tie up 1.5 million in cap space on the low risk someone makes him an offer you're unwilling to match? I don't view it as a low risk. I view it as a medium risk. Bates is a good player. But if we lose him, we lose him. We'll survive. But we can expect the guard position to continue to be a problem. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malazan Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 (edited) 4 minutes ago, MJS said: I don't view it as a low risk. I view it as a medium risk. Bates is a good player. But if we lose him, we lose him. We'll survive. But we can expect the guard position to continue to be a problem. How many players restricted free agent receive, accept and then leave each year? TBD should partner up with some online therapy. Embed it into each thread with "I'M HAVING AN EMOTIONAL PANIC BASED ON THINGS THAT HAVEN'T HAPPENED AND ARE UNLIKELY TO HAPPEN" then take 10% and fund this place for the next 10,000 years in a week. Edited March 17, 2022 by Malazan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 6 minutes ago, Malazan said: What the heck do you two not understand that the Bills might agree with you, but they had NO REASON to give it to him unless they have to? hmmmm I think this got garbled. Bates may very well set the market for himself by going to the Vikings and then the bills match. I was saying that Bates is def a starting OG on this team....and gives double duty as the backup center. 1 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEpsYtown Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 It is an interesting way to get a long term deal signed as well. I would think that the Viking would try to pry him with multiple years. It sets the market and gives Bates and the Bills an idea of what he is worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocCityRoller Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 6 minutes ago, Malazan said: Ya'll seem very confused. He doesn't just leave if Minnesota makes him an offer. The Bills can choose to match whatever they offer. You're literally saying they should have tied up 1.5 million of cap space on the slim possibility that cap strapped Minnesota makes him an offer the Bills are unwilling to match. You both just indicated he "unlikely" to be replaced by a 2nd round pick... so again, why definitely tie up 1.5 million in cap space on the low risk someone makes him an offer you're unwilling to match? Buffalo put a $2,433,000 tender on him for right of refusal. A second round tender this year was only $3,986,000 A starting level OG who played like Bates did, pulls like Bates and energized the run game (see the videos I posted) and is the backup C is worth $3.9 million to me. Far more valuable than a busted up TE#2 making $3.5 million, and making a potential roster hole on the OL. If Minnesota offers anything more than $2.43 million in year one of a contract Buffalo can match. If Buffalo does not want to/ can not match in 10 days he goes to Minnesota and Buffalo gets nothing but Cody Ford starting at OG, or another hole to fill in the draft. I guess the difference is whether the Bills FO (or the fans on this board for discourse) think Bates is a starter or not. I do and a handful of others do. Additionally it will depend on what Minnesota thinks. The man more than held his own in the playoffs on an offense that turned in two of the all time great offensive performances. I'd rather spend $3.9 million on the 2nd round tender, and have a full season to evaluate him full time. If Minnesota or another team wants to show him starter money, and Buffalo can not match, at least OBD has Minnesota's 2nd to backfill the position. Putting the 2nd on a guy deters a lot of teams from considering making him an offer in the first place. The second round tender makes other teams consider if a guy is worth the contract and a 2nd rounder. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCBills Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 If we didn’t have Kromer as OL coach, this would worry me. I am unbothered. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malazan Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 (edited) 23 minutes ago, RocCityRoller said: I guess the difference is whether the Bills FO (or the fans on this board for discourse) think Bates is a starter or not. I do and a handful of others do. Additionally it will depend on what Minnesota thinks. The man more than held his own in the playoffs on an offense that turned in two of the all time great offensive performances. I'd rather spend $3.9 million on the 2nd round tender, and have a full season to evaluate him full time. If Minnesota or another team wants to show him starter money, and Buffalo can not match, at least OBD has Minnesota's 2nd to backfill the position. Putting the 2nd on a guy deters a lot of teams from considering making him an offer in the first place. No one is arguing that he should be a starter. The argument is 100% chance of using 1.5 million cap space vs the calculated risk of him being signed for an amount the Bills won't match. Minnesota currently has less cap space than the Bills do.. go lookup the rates that RFA get signed to other teams. You're having a meltdown over a conversation about a possibility from a team that would have to free up cap space to make the offer to do something that's pretty rare. Edited March 18, 2022 by Malazan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Costa Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 So if Minnesota offers him 4 million we can match and everything is fine. If they offer 5 or 6 or a multi year deal Bills will have a decision to make. We probably need to leave the big boy stuff to Beane. Nice to say what you would have done but none of us really know exactly what’s going on at One Bills Drive . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddo Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 37 minutes ago, Malazan said: Ya'll seem very confused. He doesn't just leave if Minnesota makes him an offer. The Bills can choose to match whatever they offer. You're literally saying they should have tied up 1.5 million of cap space on the slim possibility that cap strapped Minnesota makes him an offer the Bills are unwilling to match. You both just indicated he "unlikely" to be replaced by a 2nd round pick... so again, why definitely tie up 1.5 million in cap space on the low risk someone makes him an offer you're unwilling to match? The Bills were supposedly cap strapped, yet somehow they have managed to get Von Miller. Maybe the idea of being cap strapped, is somewhat overblown, especially when talking about the odd few million here or there, as opposed to, say $120m. There is no confusion by the way. I'm well aware that the Bills can match the offer. Much of the argument is about why put yourself in that position, just to save $1.5 million, and potentially lose a player whose worth to the team, is very likely to become considerably more than that, given a continued opportunity. Any offer above $3.9million average, means it's going to cost the Bills more to retain him than the 2nd round tender amount. It doesn't make much sense strategically either. We've cut a guard/center, and a guard/tackle, and then risk either losing, or potentially having to overpay, a guy who can cover all of those positions, who was also clearly our best starting guard, when eventually given the chance. The worst case scenaio, atm, is that Bates could go elsewhere, with the Bills unwilling to match. That probably creates 2 holes in the roster, in respect of guard and center (backup). If tendered at the higher level, worst case scenario would be that Bates goes elsewhere, holes are still created, but the Bills have a 2nd round pick to address at least one of those holes. For a mere $1.5 million extra spent. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 The Bills rolled the dice and they may end up paying the price. In my view, he would be a pretty significant loss. Yes, it is a rather smallish sample size but he did perform well down the stretch. If the Bills lose out and have to replace him, they very likely may end up downgrading in FA to replace him and hope that one of their draft choices end up being better. Personally, I would rather have Bates be in the mix for the competition with the inside track. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloButt Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 Surprised the Giants aren't meeting with him also! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malazan Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Buddo said: The Bills were supposedly cap strapped, yet somehow they have managed to get Von Miller. Maybe the idea of being cap strapped, is somewhat overblown, especially when talking about the odd few million here or there, as opposed to, say $120m. There is no confusion by the way. I'm well aware that the Bills can match the offer. Much of the argument is about why put yourself in that position, just to save $1.5 million, and potentially lose a player whose worth to the team, is very likely to become considerably more than that, given a continued opportunity. Any offer above $3.9million average, means it's going to cost the Bills more to retain him than the 2nd round tender amount. It doesn't make much sense strategically either. We've cut a guard/center, and a guard/tackle, and then risk either losing, or potentially having to overpay, a guy who can cover all of those positions, who was also clearly our best starting guard, when eventually given the chance. The worst case scenaio, atm, is that Bates could go elsewhere, with the Bills unwilling to match. That probably creates 2 holes in the roster, in respect of guard and center (backup). If tendered at the higher level, worst case scenario would be that Bates goes elsewhere, holes are still created, but the Bills have a 2nd round pick to address at least one of those holes. For a mere $1.5 million extra spent. Clearly, there's confusion. No such offer has been made. This argument of yours is.. I don't even know. You're suggesting to pay him more money so you don't 'risk' having to 'overpay' him. This is the same logic that companies use to sell extended warranties to dumb people. Edited March 18, 2022 by Malazan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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