What to do at CB?

[CountDorkula]

17 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

It is 13M. And the Bills can easily fit 6.5M cap hit. 
 

example you can get the 6.5M in space with a Diggs extension. 

I think a 3rd will get it done with Giants eating half the base. 

ID be all for it, They need about 3 mil for Rookies.

 

The Diggs Extension is something of an interesting topic for me. I think he's looking for top 5 WR money which is about 26 a year. IF you can make it work where he somehow drops his cap hit to like 5 mil this year but also leave flexibility for the next few years then do it. 

[ChanticleerBillsFan]

I think a fourth would be the highest Beane would go on a one year rental. 
 

I don’t believe the Giants would pay 6.5 million for a fourth round pick. 
 

I like the idea and the familiarity. Hopefully it happens. CB is a huge hole. 

[MAJBobby]

4 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

In a world where it’s guaranteed - absolutely.

 

Unfortunately it’s not, and I’m skeptical James Bradberry is the missing link to winning a Super Bowl. 
 

The Giants are getting desperate to move him. I’m not giving up a 3rd for 1 year and taking a $6.5M cap hit. 

so you plan for CB2 and Insurance to white is????  

[BillsShredder83]

Is this a contract year for him? I'm not letting the one year thing scare me off. That's a full season to have a killer #2. We don't need to rush tre back. Kc lost their best weapon... we get one back, while adding another. 

Yolo a GD 3rd rd'er!!

[MAJBobby]

5 minutes ago, CountDorkula said:

ID be all for it, They need about 3 mil for Rookies.

 

The Diggs Extension is something of an interesting topic for me. I think he's looking for top 5 WR money which is about 26 a year. IF you can make it work where he somehow drops his cap hit to like 5 mil this year but also leave flexibility for the next few years then do it. 

Well how much is Von making?  And what is his cap hit this year 5M???

 

Von is 20M a year. And his cap hit this year is 5.1M. Bills can easily set that type of structure up with Diggs

 

freeing up any money needed for Bradberry. 

Edited March 25, 2022 by MAJBobby

[DCofNC]

2 minutes ago, CountDorkula said:

ID be all for it, They need about 3 mil for Rookies.

 

The Diggs Extension is something of an interesting topic for me. I think he's looking for top 5 WR money which is about 26 a year. IF you can make it work where he somehow drops his cap hit to like 5 mil this year but also leave flexibility for the next few years then do it. 

You really can’t drop his cap hit to 5 in any real world scenario AND keep flexibility later.  The deal for Miller was a dangerous game of punting the cap hit down the road, works to get him on the squad this year and you hope the cap goes up next year, but if you look at the implications for the future, that’s how you become the Saints, Rams etc.  Allen’s money hits next year, Miller hits,  and then Diggs, the 3 of them would account for 75M+, nightmare scenario for talent retention.   I see the best way as actually bringing Diggs number up a little this year, to 20 from 17, with something like a Hill deal, 4 years 70M guaranteed, he gets 40m signing, 10m base for 3 years guaranteed, 30M year 4, no guarantees.  He gets close to the top on everything and you cap hit remains manageable at 20M, plus you aren’t paying past his prime.

[SCBills]

A 4th and I’m all for it. 
 

Go WR & OL in the first two rounds, then take a CB in RD3 to learn behind White/Bradberry and compete for CB2 next year when we clearly won’t be able to afford re-signing Bradberry.  
 

A 3rd RD pick gets a little pricey for a one year rental.  Not saying no, but that’s a tough pill to swallow. 

[mannc]

It’s been a while since I watched a Giants game…is Bradberry any good?  If so, why don’t the Gints want him?

[MAJBobby]

3 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

You really can’t drop his cap hit to 5 in any real world scenario AND keep flexibility later.  The deal for Miller was a dangerous game of punting the cap hit down the road, works to get him on the squad this year and you hope the cap goes up next year, but if you look at the implications for the future, that’s how you become the Saints, Rams etc.  Allen’s money hits next year, Miller hits,  and then Diggs, the 3 of them would account for 75M+, nightmare scenario for talent retention.   I see the best way as actually bringing Diggs number up a little this year, to 20 from 17, with something like a Hill deal, 4 years 70M guaranteed, he gets 40m signing, 10m base for 3 years guaranteed, 30M year 4, no guarantees.  He gets close to the top on everything and you cap hit remains manageable at 20M, plus you aren’t paying past his prime.

No it won’t. You convert Allen’s Base to Bonus. BOOM all the space you need for player retention. 

Edited March 25, 2022 by MAJBobby

[SCBills]

9 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

You really can’t drop his cap hit to 5 in any real world scenario AND keep flexibility later.  The deal for Miller was a dangerous game of punting the cap hit down the road, works to get him on the squad this year and you hope the cap goes up next year, but if you look at the implications for the future, that’s how you become the Saints, Rams etc.  Allen’s money hits next year, Miller hits,  and then Diggs, the 3 of them would account for 75M+, nightmare scenario for talent retention.   I see the best way as actually bringing Diggs number up a little this year, to 20 from 17, with something like a Hill deal, 4 years 70M guaranteed, he gets 40m signing, 10m base for 3 years guaranteed, 30M year 4, no guarantees.  He gets close to the top on everything and you cap hit remains manageable at 20M, plus you aren’t paying past his prime.

I agree with you.   It’s not dangerous to do it once in a while during this decade+ window we have with Josh Allen.   We decided to pull the trigger on doing it with Von Miller.  It’s very manageable and doesn’t mortgage the future.  
 

Start trading high picks, backloading multiple contracts etc., and that’s how you start running into problems down the road. 
 

That being said, we likely have one “get out of jail” free card with a restructure of the Josh Allen 43M AAV contract.   It already looks like a bargain and the extension hasn’t even kicked in yet.     This off-season we’ve seen 50M per for Rodgers and 46M per for Watson.  In 2-3 years, 50M+ AAV contracts will likely be the norm for anyone even close to Allen’s caliber.  
 

 

Edited March 25, 2022 by SCBills

[MAJBobby]

If the team is not willing to get a legit CB2 and are relying on a unknown draft pick. Why did we sign Von Miller again?  
 

it should be Lombardi or Bust THIS year. 

[Einstein's Dog]

22 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

Yep. And if it secures the CB spot and helps get a Trophy would you really care about not having a 2022 Late 3rd?

The majority of the cap hit goes away with a trade. And a Diggs extension can open up the space to fit the remaining contract Giants don’t eat. 

Wow.  Love this idea.  Take care of Diggs now, don't let the mumbling brew (long term benefit), and get a quality vet CB (short term benefit).  Then with a taken care of Diggs and the CB hole temporarily filled they can more easily draft BPA (which hopefully would be the WR).

 

A 3rd is steep.  I wonder if the change with T Hill might prod the FO to push a few more short term chips in- it would for me.  Get a vet CB in for the start of the season and have a fantastic CB duo (White and Bradberry) available for the playoffs.  Very tempting.

[Simon Says]

31 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

Yep. And if it secures the CB spot and helps get a Trophy would you really care about not having a 2022 Late 3rd?

The majority of the cap hit goes away with a trade. And a Diggs extension can open up the space to fit the remaining contract Giants don’t eat. 

You guys understand the difference between "base salary" and "cap hit ",right? Giants gave him a signing bonus ,paid up front, but have to account for it over the life of the contract.  The salary is about 13 and the amortized bonus is 8 per year. Team acquiring him does not take on the bonus, only the salary.

[dje85]

11 minutes ago, mannc said:

It’s been a while since I watched a Giants game…is Bradberry any good?  If so, why don’t the Gints want him?

I can;t talk about his play as I also haven't ever watched a Giants game in many seasons. But from what I have heard he is a solid corner. 

 

This is all about the Giants cap space. They are tight against it, and like Beane when he came into the Bills GM position,  Schoen is coming in and moving a majority of the high cap players who don't fit in to his vision. 

 

 

[MAJBobby]

1 minute ago, Einstein's Dog said:

Wow.  Love this idea.  Take care of Diggs now, don't let the mumbling brew (long term benefit), and get a quality vet CB (short term benefit).  Then with a taken care of Diggs and the CB hole temporarily filled they can more easily draft BPA (which hopefully would be the WR).

 

A 3rd is steep.  I wonder if the change with T Hill might prod the FO to push a few more short term chips in- it would for me.  Get a vet CB in for the start of the season and have a fantastic CB duo (White and Bradberry) available for the playoffs.  Very tempting.

If they do not bring in a CB before the Draft and willing to go into the Draft with an Unknown at 2 CB spots get ready because the DB play is what will cost a SB win watch. 

Just now, Georgie said:

You guys understand the difference between "base salary" and "cap hit ",right? Giants gave him a signing bonus ,paid up front, but have to account for it over the life of the contract.  The salary is about 13 and the amortized bonus is 8 per year. Team acquiring him does not take on the bonus, only the salary.

I completely understand and why if Giants eat half I am talking 6.5M. 

[Simon Says]

28 minutes ago, CountDorkula said:

ID be all for it, They need about 3 mil for Rookies.

 

The Diggs Extension is something of an interesting topic for me. I think he's looking for top 5 WR money which is about 26 a year. IF you can make it work where he somehow drops his cap hit to like 5 mil this year but also leave flexibility for the next few years then do it. 

I think rookies cost a bit more than 3 million 

[SCBills]

Just now, Georgie said:

I think rookies cost a bit more than 3 million 

Pretty sure there’s a graphic somewhere on this board that shows we need about 2.1M currently. 

[MAJBobby]

2 minutes ago, Georgie said:

I think rookies cost a bit more than 3 million 

They don’t. Because the ones that will really only count is around 1 and 2. 
 

you have to remember we are at a point now for every contract signed a contract of almost 1M dollars falls off the top 51. 

Edited March 25, 2022 by MAJBobby

[Bobby Hooks]

47 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

Oof. For 1 year?

 

 

This is the year to do it. The Rams gave up more for Von’s services for half a year and it worked out well for them. 

[Einstein's Dog]

1 minute ago, MAJBobby said:

If they do not bring in a CB before the Draft and willing to go into the Draft with an Unknown at 2 CB spots get ready because the DB play is what will cost a SB win watch. 

They may have more information and be more confident in White for the start of the season than us.  But for me, either way, I would like to see another vet brought in, and Bradberry seems like he would be at the top of the list.

 

A 3rd and $6.5M is steep though.  Probably have to weigh that with the same cost and no 3rd for Haden.

[MAJBobby]

1 minute ago, Einstein's Dog said:

They may have more information and be more confident in White for the start of the season than us.  But for me, either way, I would like to see another vet brought in, and Bradberry seems like he would be at the top of the list.

 

A 3rd and $6.5M is steep though.  Probably have to weigh that with the same cost and no 3rd for Haden.

And Haden is the lesser CB. Steelers fans are happy “Slow” Joe is a UFA 

[Don Otreply]

10 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

If the team is not willing to get a legit CB2 and are relying on a unknown draft pick. Why did we sign Von Miller again?  
 

it should be Lombardi or Bust THIS year. 

One would think so, 

 

We all know Beane doesn’t sleep, so I for one am not worried about this, Beane and his guys will work this out . 

[SCBills]

I completely get the idea of upgrading the CB room.  Bradberry is intriguing. 
 

What I don’t get is people using Miami as a reasoning. 
 

Even when healthy, and if we get Bradberry.  You can’t just put White on Hill and Bradberry on Waddle.   
 

That offense is going to be a different animal with all their speed.   

[MAJBobby]

2 minutes ago, SCBills said:

I completely get the idea of upgrading the CB room.  Bradberry is intriguing. 
 

What I don’t get is people using Miami as a reasoning. 
 

Even when healthy, and if we get Bradberry.  You can’t just put White on Hill and Bradberry on Waddle.   
 

That offense is going to be a different animal with all their speed.   

Agree the constant over rating of MIA on this board every year is weird. 
 

my evaluation on Bradberry for Bills has nothing to do with MIA and everything to do with the depth and injuries in the Bills CB room. 

[boyst]

29 minutes ago, mannc said:

It’s been a while since I watched a Giants game…is Bradberry any good?  If so, why don’t the Gints want him?

Wallace has played better than him the last few seasons but Bradberry has a higher ceiling.

 

I trust McD with him and liked him coming out but he has not transitioned as well, nor grown like expected to the NFL. He is akin to Edmunds at his position.

 

I'd have rather had Wallace at a cheaper cost who plays just as well. His $$ is ridiculous for his level of play.

[Santana]

1 hour ago, Ray Finkel said:

Trade Edmunds and get more cap space for Bradberry.

Why would you want to trade Edmunds? 

[JGMcD2]

6 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

so you plan for CB2 and Insurance to white is????  

1A)

• Wait for Bradberry's price to come down/get released and keep our 2022 3rd round pick.
• Spend a pick somewhere RD1 - RD3 on a CB and a pick RD5 or later on a CB. 

1B)

• Sign 1 of Joe Haden, Xavier Rhodes or Steven Nelson for less than the $6.5M and keep our 2022 3rd round pick.
• Spend a pick somewhere RD1 - RD3 on a CB and a pick RD5 or later on a CB. 

Either of the proposed scenarios gives you a fill-in CB1 while White is still recovering as well as an option to compete with Jackson for CB2 while White is recovering. Plus a developmental option that compete to make the roster and/or end up on the practice squad. 

CB1 - Bradberry/Haden/Rhodes/Nelson

CB2 - Jackson/RD1 - RD3 draft pick

SLOT - Johnson

CB4 - Jackson/RD1 - RD3 draft pick/RD 5 or later draft pick

 

Once White returns everyone shifts down one spot.

 

CB 1 - White

CB 2 - Bradberry/Haden/Rhodes/Nelson

SLOT - Johnson

CB4 - Jackson/RD1 - RD3 draft pick

 

There's also Siran Neal who factors in. He's plays more of a hybrid role, but part of his extension was the fact that he'd contribute more on defense. 
 

I'm not advocating to disregard the CB position by any means - this proposed price for Bradberry is far too much. This defense is extremely CB friendly, no need to overpay for a guy who isn't significantly better than alternative options available. 

[Einstein's Dog]

8 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

If it’s a problem early on I’d imagine they’d swing a trade for a better option in season…  I’m with you. They should bring in a solid veteran.

I'd like to see them avoid the early problem this year.  There could be the possibility to run away with the number 1 seed.  

Maybe this is the reason the FO didn't fill the CB with some run of the mill average vet.

10 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Draft picks are no definite thing and 6.5 is doable…just look at the Bills last 4 3rd round picks….

A third is a lot.  Knox and Singletary were 3rds.  And it seems some combination of WR, CB, IOL, then maybe  RB would be in play.

[BillsShredder83]

8 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Draft picks are no definite thing and 6.5 is doable…just look at the Bills last 4 3rd round picks….

I'm for the trade, but this is a bad argument for this situation lol

Spencer Brown

Dawson Knox

Harrison Phillips

 

Side note... went to look at 2017. Traded up for Zay Jones rd2. Took schnoman rd2.... then nothing until rd 5 (Milano). Perfect freaking draft if we hadn't went after zay. Ouch

[Coach Tuesday]

Okay but will they eat the salary with blue cheese or ranch?

[YoloinOhio]

1 hour ago, CountDorkula said:

Isn't his base salary like 14 million?

 

They'd have to hold basically all of it for Buffalo to be able to fit him in.

Nope. There are number of extension or restructures Beans can trigger if he feels the opportunity is there for a player he wants. 20+ million in space. Allen, Tre, Diggs, Dawkins. Guys you know will be here so pushing cap out won’t hurt you. Diggs would be an extension not a restructure. 

[MrEpsYtown]

Typically this leads to a release. When teams are willing to eat money to move a guy for a pick they are announcing to the world that he ain't coming back. 

[mabden]

1 hour ago, JGMcD2 said:

In a world where it’s guaranteed - absolutely.

 

Unfortunately it’s not, and I’m skeptical James Bradberry is the missing link to winning a Super Bowl. 
 

The Giants are getting desperate to move him. I’m not giving up a 3rd for 1 year and taking a $6.5M cap hit. 

 

No he is not the "over the hump" guy, but it does stabilize the CB position, leaving the Bills the opportunity to draft the BPA and not reach for, or have to move up for a CB in the 1st round.

 

The 1 year deal, can be renegotiated for a more favorable cap hit and extends Bradberry for a year or two.  If anyone can doit, Beane can.

[CountDorkula]

13 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Nope. There are number of extension or restructures Beans can trigger if he feels the opportunity is there for a player he wants. 20+ million in space. Allen, Tre, Diggs, Dawkins. Guys you know will be here so pushing cap out won’t hurt you. Diggs would be an extension not a restructure. 

While sure yes, that is the case.  I was using the at current cap space available.

 

Also, I am still under the impression Beane meant it when he said "He doesnt really like doing that" which i probably shouldn't be.

[NewEra]

48 minutes ago, Bobby Hooks said:

This is the year to do it. The Rams gave up more for Von’s services for half a year and it worked out well for them. 

There’s a BIG different between Von Millers impact and that of James Bradberry.  

[Solomon Grundy]

1 hour ago, MAJBobby said:

example you can get the 6.5M in space with a Diggs extension. 

Diggs extension better include more dollars. Seen his recent tweet, “business never personal”

[YoloinOhio]

12 minutes ago, CountDorkula said:

While sure yes, that is the case.  I was using the at current cap space available.

 

Also, I am still under the impression Beane meant it when he said "He doesnt really like doing that" which i probably shouldn't be.

He hasn’t shown to do it a lot previously but it makes sense with certain players, not all. Void years for Hyde and Milano this year as an example. And only if he needs to.

[atlbillsfan1975]

19 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

Typically this leads to a release. When teams are willing to eat money to move a guy for a pick they are announcing to the world that he ain't coming back. 

Yep and Beane doesn’t strike me as the kind of GM to give up a valuable draft pick (rounds 1-5) for someone who has a 50/50 shot at being a FA.

[YoloinOhio]

Just now, atlbillsfan1975 said:

Yep and Beane doesn’t strike me as the kind of GM to give up a valuable draft pick (rounds 1-5) for someone who has a 50/50 shot at being a FA.

It won’t be a valuable pick if they are eating salary. 

[Max Fischer]

1 hour ago, Ray Finkel said:

Trade Edmunds and get more cap space for Bradberry.

 

Yes, let's create an even bigger hole.