What to do at CB?

[Sierra Foothills]

14 hours ago, longtimebillsfan said:

There is a reason Beane is where he is and we are providing our expert guidence on Two Bills Drive

 

[Richard Noggin]

13 hours ago, dneveu said:

 

I'm opposed to trading up for anyone in this draft.  We need a ton of depth - LB, CB, WR, RB, OG, OT

But will all that drafted depth actually make the 53-man roster? And if not, will they be poached (either when initially waived or as members of the PS)? That seems to be the debate around how to use this year's picks. There IS a case to be made for packaging picks to move up at some point in the 2022 draft. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

9 hours ago, Richard Noggin said:

But will all that drafted depth actually make the 53-man roster? And if not, will they be poached (either when initially waived or as members of the PS)? That seems to be the debate around how to use this year's picks. There IS a case to be made for packaging picks to move up at some point in the 2022 draft. 

 

Our LB depth took a hit when we lost Klein, and as of today he has not been replaced.  You also have to look to the future of possible life without Edmunds.  

 

Our Guard depth went from feliciano as next man up - to boettger and ford.  They've played plenty but neither is who you want if someone goes down.  Feliciano missed a bunch of time last year and we saw a bunch of these 2 and they stunk.  

 

Our tackle depth goes from Williams who can kick out to RT, to a 5th round pick in Doyle and no one else.  

 

Corner - lost wallace add jackson is honestly probably a wash to me, but they still need a player here if white isn't healthy enough to go as well as to push jackson.

 

RB - Singletary is on an expiring, moss had a truly terrible year, johnson is a patch fill in.  Could use some talent here but i'd hate it in the first.  

 

WR - Top 4 is fairly set, but behind diggs and davis is a ST guy and question marks.  Gentry Hodgins Stevenson as options at WR5 on a team that is majority 3 wide.  

 

We're talking about pushing these guys off the roster: 

Dodson

Ford

Doyle (we need another tackle anyway)

Lewis

Moss

Stevenson

 

I don't think I really want any of them on the roster?  

Edited March 30, 2022 by dneveu

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Jameson Williams said today he expects to be cleared by training camp. He tore his acl 2 months after Tre. 8 months seems to be the new average for ACls without setbacks. 6 months is becoming more common however.

 

Ive also read non contact tears are more clean.

Edited March 30, 2022 by Buffalo_Stampede

[whorlnut]

11 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Jameson Williams said today he expects to be cleared by training camp. He tore his acl 2 months after Tre. 8 months seems to be the new average for ACls without setbacks. 6 months is becoming more common however.

 

Ive also read non contact tears are more clean.

Great news on one front, but not on the other. 
 

Been saying that Tre will likely be back sooner than most of us expected. However, Williams will now be out of our reach if he’s cleared that early. 

[Dopey]

On 3/29/2022 at 9:30 AM, longtimebillsfan said:

To answer the original question on this thread, trust Beane.  He has consistently demonstrated that he has a plan.

 

There is a reason Beane is where he is and we are providing our expert guidence on Two Bills Drive

Amen 

🙏

 

[DapperCam]

Trade up and get the fastest/best CB available.

 

This is our year, we can't blow the #1 seed because we lost a couple games in September because we didn't have a CB2.

[HurlyBurly51]

1 hour ago, whorlnut said:

However, Williams will now be out of our reach if he’s cleared that early. 

He was always gonna be out of reach.

[whorlnut]

3 minutes ago, HurlyBurly51 said:

He was always gonna be out of reach.

Disagree. There was a chance if there wasn’t a timeline on his recovery. Only certain teams have the benefit of being able to wait a few months…we are one of them. 

1 hour ago, DapperCam said:

Trade up and get the fastest/best CB available.

 

This is our year, we can't blow the #1 seed because we lost a couple games in September because we didn't have a CB2.

Even though it was our offense that lost a couple games in the middle of the season last year?  Sorry. I disagree with this. Dane Jackson has two years in this system and he was the reason they didn’t draft a corner last year. They really like him. 

Can someone please remind me who had the number one defense last year and led the league in fewest tds allowed?

[HurlyBurly51]

44 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

Disagree. There was a chance if there wasn’t a timeline on his recovery. Only certain teams have the benefit of being able to wait a few months…we are one of them. 

 

Agree to disagree.  Everyone knows the timeline for his injury.  It was always a pipe dream amongst fans that he would fall to the Bills.  In the real world he wasn't going to, nor will it ever happen.  On draft day the conjecture disappears and NFL GM's aren't going to let it happen.

[DapperCam]

1 hour ago, whorlnut said:

Even though it was our offense that lost a couple games in the middle of the season last year?  Sorry. I disagree with this. Dane Jackson has two years in this system and he was the reason they didn’t draft a corner last year. They really like him. 

Can someone please remind me who had the number one defense last year and led the league in fewest tds allowed?

The offense lost games because the o-line was bad. Mostly due to injuries.

 

By that logic, we should draft an o-lineman first.

[whorlnut]

1 hour ago, DapperCam said:

The offense lost games because the o-line was bad. Mostly due to injuries.

 

By that logic, we should draft an o-lineman first.

I would be ok with that. 

1 hour ago, HurlyBurly51 said:

Agree to disagree.  Everyone knows the timeline for his injury.  It was always a pipe dream amongst fans that he would fall to the Bills.  In the real world he wasn't going to, nor will it ever happen.  On draft day the conjecture disappears and NFL GM's aren't going to let it happen.

So Jeffrey Simmons didn’t slip because of is acl tear?  How about jaylon smith?  Happens all the time. Simmons and smith were considered top 5 picks.  The question is…where was he originally slated and how far will he fall. 

[Pete]

On 3/28/2022 at 8:38 PM, Motor26 said:

I like Dax Hill. Athletic enough to play outside corner full time, nickel, safety. Feel like McDermott would love him as a chess piece to move all over the defense. 

I think Dax Hill is a great sneaky pick.  Weve been looking for a big nickel- maybe Dax is that

[BADOLBILZ]

 

I could see the Bills swinging a trade for a CB.

 

If Kenny Pickett is still on the board at 25 maybe New Orleans would trade up:

 

Saints get #25 to draft Pickett.

 

Bills get 2nd year CB from Stanford Paulson Adebo........who I think the Bills really liked in last years draft.........as well as pick #49 and #98(New Orleans first comp pick).

 

Adebo was a big hit for New Orleans so maybe they would value him too high to use him in a trade up..........but this is the kind of thing that should be on the table for the Bills.

 

It shouldn't just be about having to start a rookie or sign a tired vet if it's believed that White might not be ready to start the season.   

[Motor26]

On 3/29/2022 at 10:11 AM, dneveu said:

 

I'm opposed to trading up for anyone in this draft.  We need a ton of depth - LB, CB, WR, RB, OG, OT

Depth is for the later rounds. They need high end talent on the Oline and at CB. They need studs not more average players. 

[machine gun kelly]

CB, WR, G are going to be the top picks. Depth at RB and at the end of the draft I can see Punter and safety.  Let Hyde and Poyer groom a young guy for two years.

[SoTier]

On 3/28/2022 at 4:16 PM, whorlnut said:

You don’t draft for need. Are you kidding me?  IF corner is BPA at 25, then fine. But I’m hearing a lot of you say it has to be a corner. That’s completely reckless. Not all the corners are the same. Guys like Gardner, Booth, McDuffie, and Stingley are the obvious first rounders. Gordon did not have good numbers at the combine and his stock has dropped. Elam has his issue and mccreary has absurdly short arms. Do you really think Beane is gonna draft a guy with sub 29” arms to play the boundary?  No way. Heck, McDuffie has short arms too. Dane Jackson has better measurables. 
 

All four of the corners I mentioned as first rounders will probably be gone. Do you still want Beane to draft one “just because we need one”?  Count me out on that. We can possibly get someone like Gordon or Woolen in round 2 and get a big upgrade at the position. It doesn’t “have to be” corner at 25. 

 

Drafting solely for need in the first yields gems like John McCargo, Aaron Maybin, and EJ Manuel.

[Pete]

52 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

Drafting solely for need in the first yields gems like John McCargo, Aaron Maybin, and EJ Manuel.

And the Bills are very talented at most every position.  BPA all the way!  Stud players fall every draft.  The Bills can just sit back and take the highest rated player on their board, no matter a WR, S, RB, CB, OL any position they had a superior grade on player.  That must scare the hell out of the rest of the league. 

[TheBeaneBandit]

9 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

I could see the Bills swinging a trade for a CB.

 

If Kenny Pickett is still on the board at 25 maybe New Orleans would trade up:

 

Saints get #25 to draft Pickett.

 

Bills get 2nd year CB from Stanford Paulson Adebo........who I think the Bills really liked in last years draft.........as well as pick #49 and #98(New Orleans first comp pick).

 

Adebo was a big hit for New Orleans so maybe they would value him too high to use him in a trade up..........but this is the kind of thing that should be on the table for the Bills.

 

It shouldn't just be about having to start a rookie or sign a tired vet if it's believed that White might not be ready to start the season.   

Love it. Then trade up for a WR they really like if need be. Winning lol

[SCBills]

I agree with those who think we go, in some order:  WR, CB, OL in the first 3 rounds.   The odds are decent that those positions are also the BPA at where we’re drafting when you look at mock draft boards.  
 

The only potential disruptions I could see to assuming those positions, if we go BPA, would be a DL or RB that drops… Devonte Wyatt or Jordan Davis in RD1 or a RB they like that drops to the late 2nd/3rd. 
 

Daxton Hill is interesting at Safety, but if a team takes him in RD1, it seems good odds that  they draft him as a CB. 

[freddyjj]

So my plan to secure CB2 for this year and buy insurance if Tre has recovery delays - sign Mike Hughes FA CB from KC to a one year deal.  Was a team mate of Gabe Davis at UCF and was 30th pick in Rd 1 of 2019 NFL draft by Vikes.  Had some injury issues in MN and was traded to KC.  Had a solid 2021 in KC

 

https://www.si.com/college/ucf/university-of-central-florida-football/bounce-back-mike-hughes

 

Then take a leap on a developmental outside corner rd 3 or 4 in the draft.  Tariq Woolen UTSA, Joshua Williams Fayetteville State

[whorlnut]

2 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

Drafting solely for need in the first yields gems like John McCargo, Aaron Maybin, and EJ Manuel.

Exactly. Beane doesn’t draft for need. He’s too smart for that. 

[newcam2012]

1 hour ago, Pete said:

And the Bills are very talented at most every position.  BPA all the way!  Stud players fall every draft.  The Bills can just sit back and take the highest rated player on their board, no matter a WR, S, RB, CB, OL any position they had a superior grade on player.  That must scare the hell out of the rest of the league. 

From most draft experts, this draft lacks stud players. Imho, the draft seems to be deep in quality wide receivers. Surely, any deemed stud players will be gone before pick 25. There are always diamonds in the rough. 

[Motor26]

1 hour ago, newcam2012 said:

From most draft experts, this draft lacks stud players. Imho, the draft seems to be deep in quality wide receivers. Surely, any deemed stud players will be gone before pick 25. There are always diamonds in the rough. 

Every year a player drops for a number of reasons, whether it’s a run on QB’s, or a run on WR/CB/Edge, something comes up off the field the week of the draft. If they draft BPA I could see an Edge rusher or DT being there, maybe even one of the top OT. We will see how Beane follows his board. But if they draft Gordon or McCreary in round 1 that would surely be a reach. 

[DisplacedBillsFan]

I think part of the plan to help the CB situation was to improve the pass rush, which we’ve done. Hyde and Poyer also make up for average CB play, and their help over the top and in the middle has allowed Tre to shine and elevated the play of our other CBs. With the pass rush improved and Poyer and Hyde, I think finding elite level CB talent is not as big of a deal.

 

Yes, I absolutely feel we need CB help. Hopefully a veteran and an early draft pick. But, I also feel the other pieces of the D are designed to take some pressure off a young CB or a veteran who has lost a step.

 

I also wonder how long Hyde and Poyer both continue to play at the level we’ve come to expect, and how long until neither of them play at that level. With this in mind, a CB drafted with first or second round picks for the next couple years makes sense, as you expect your young CBs to adjust to the game and pick up the slack as safety play begins to fall off.

 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, whorlnut said:

Exactly. Beane doesn’t draft for need. He’s too smart for that. 

 

We don't really know this.........in Beane's first two drafts almost everything was a need so BPA and need were easier to match up...........and still, in 2019 he had the most egregious documented incidence of drafting for need in Bills history with the trade up for Cody "we need a tackle" Ford.  

 

In 2020 they went into the draft with a deep roster and really were playing with house money so to speak........but still,  Rousseau and Basham might have been need-over-BPA picks.    I personally felt Rousseau was BPA.......Basham definitely not.......but it was clearly the position they were most in need of a quality upgrade at.    I think Basham would have been a late 3rd or early 4th round pick in this draft because of his combination of modest pass rush ability and over-age(he turned 24 in his rookie season).

[newcam2012]

2 hours ago, Motor26 said:

Every year a player drops for a number of reasons, whether it’s a run on QB’s, or a run on WR/CB/Edge, something comes up off the field the week of the draft. If they draft BPA I could see an Edge rusher or DT being there, maybe even one of the top OT. We will see how Beane follows his board. But if they draft Gordon or McCreary in round 1 that would surely be a reach. 

I mean it is really hard to know what's going to happen prior to pick 25. I guess we all can play out the scenarios. Imho, Beane stays pretty close to his board. He won't make a big reach on need. He will surely take an obvious BPA regardless of position. I think that's a rare and unlikely situation. What is more probable is a close gap between BPA and a team need. That is a much harder position to navigate. Both choices can be justified.

Edited March 31, 2022 by newcam2012

[Magnum Force]

5 hours ago, whorlnut said:

Exactly. Beane doesn’t draft for need. He’s too smart for that. 

You have some really good posts. 👍 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Seems like all signs point to this guy.

 

 

[HurlyBurly51]

2 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Seems like all signs point to this guy.

 

 

Just sign already!

[Motor26]

22 minutes ago, HurlyBurly51 said:

Just sign already!

Would work with me. 

[Rocky Landing]

My hope for CB is that we are trading up in the first.

[whorlnut]

7 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

My hope for CB is that we are trading up in the first.

McDs defense has made many late round or undrafted guys look good. There is ZERO reason in trading up in round 1 for a corner. Tre will prob be back sooner than most people expect and Dane Jackson has two years in the system. Our safeties take a lot of pressure off the corners. To think we need to trade up for a corner in 1 is crazy to me. 

[Rocky Landing]

33 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

McDs defense has made many late round or undrafted guys look good. There is ZERO reason in trading up in round 1 for a corner. Tre will prob be back sooner than most people expect and Dane Jackson has two years in the system. Our safeties take a lot of pressure off the corners. To think we need to trade up for a corner in 1 is crazy to me. 

Last season-- much like this season-- we were drafting primarily for backup positions, with the only notable exception being our first round pick. There was no room on the 53 for the later round picks, and they ended up on the practice squad as developmental players. The two with the most potential, Rashad Wildgoose, and Jack Anderson, were poached by other teams, rendering them utterly wasted draft picks. 

 

IMO, the question is less a matter of there being "reason in trading up," and more a question of "why not trade up?" If there isn't any room for the later round picks on the team (and, I suspect there isn't) then why not use those picks to get a better prospect at CB? Not capitalizing on the value of later round picks seems much crazier to me than trading up for better potential.

 

I do agree that "McDs defense has made many late round or undrafted guys look good." Levi Wallace, and Ike Boettger are perfect examples of that. But, obviously, being a player that other teams don't want as much is not a selling point to them, or anyone else.

[Motor26]

13 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

Last season-- much like this season-- we were drafting primarily for backup positions, with the only notable exception being our first round pick. There was no room on the 53 for the later round picks, and they ended up on the practice squad as developmental players. The two with the most potential, Rashad Wildgoose, and Jack Anderson, were poached by other teams, rendering them utterly wasted draft picks. 

 

IMO, the question is less a matter of there being "reason in trading up," and more a question of "why not trade up?" If there isn't any room for the later round picks on the team (and, I suspect there isn't) then why not use those picks to get a better prospect at CB? Not capitalizing on the value of later round picks seems much crazier to me than trading up for better potential.

 

I do agree that "McDs defense has made many late round or undrafted guys look good." Levi Wallace, and Ike Boettger are perfect examples of that. But, obviously, being a player that other teams don't want as much is not a selling point to them, or anyone else.

Well those 6ths and 7th are useless for trading up, unless it’s into the 5th. Do we really want to sacrifice our 2nd to move up 5-8 spots? I don’t know, that’s Beane’s job I guess. And for the record, I’m not even in the 1st round CB or bust group. I want the best player available, I don’t care if he’s a OT, DE, DT, or LB. Just go get a guy who can play. I’d be fine with a corner in rounds 2-4.

[whorlnut]

46 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

Last season-- much like this season-- we were drafting primarily for backup positions, with the only notable exception being our first round pick. There was no room on the 53 for the later round picks, and they ended up on the practice squad as developmental players. The two with the most potential, Rashad Wildgoose, and Jack Anderson, were poached by other teams, rendering them utterly wasted draft picks. 

 

IMO, the question is less a matter of there being "reason in trading up," and more a question of "why not trade up?" If there isn't any room for the later round picks on the team (and, I suspect there isn't) then why not use those picks to get a better prospect at CB? Not capitalizing on the value of later round picks seems much crazier to me than trading up for better potential.

 

I do agree that "McDs defense has made many late round or undrafted guys look good." Levi Wallace, and Ike Boettger are perfect examples of that. But, obviously, being a player that other teams don't want as much is not a selling point to them, or anyone else.

Don’t forget about Dane Jackson…who is still very much a part of this team. 

[Rocky Landing]

2 hours ago, Motor26 said:

Well those 6ths and 7th are useless for trading up, unless it’s into the 5th. Do we really want to sacrifice our 2nd to move up 5-8 spots? I don’t know, that’s Beane’s job I guess. And for the record, I’m not even in the 1st round CB or bust group. I want the best player available, I don’t care if he’s a OT, DE, DT, or LB. Just go get a guy who can play. I’d be fine with a corner in rounds 2-4.

First of all, a trade up would include our pick #25. It's not such an outrageous idea-- Beane has done it twice. Secondly, there are other assets besides draft picks. There is a rumor circulating right now that a trade up would include a vet player. Regardless, according to the standard trade value chart, our first, and second round picks would equate to the fourth overall pick. 

 

1 hour ago, whorlnut said:

Don’t forget about Dane Jackson…who is still very much a part of this team. 

Are you suggesting that we aren't thin at CB? IMO, it is the thinnest position on the team, especially if Tre White misses any time.

 

Edited April 1, 2022 by Rocky Landing

[Motor26]

Just now, Rocky Landing said:

First of all, a trade up would include our pick #25. It's not such an outrageous idea-- Beane has done it twice. Secondly, there are other assets besides draft picks. There is a rumor circulating right now that a trade up would include a vet player. Regardless, according to the standard trade value chart, our first, and second round picks would equate to the fourth overall pick. 

In what world do you live in where 25+57 would get you to 4? No team would ever do that, I don’t care what the dumb chart says. 

[Rocky Landing]

1 minute ago, Motor26 said:

In what world do you live in where 25+57 would get you to 4? No team would ever do that, I don’t care what the dumb chart says. 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/blog/index91c0.html?page_id=6682

[BADOLBILZ]

4 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/blog/index91c0.html?page_id=6682

 

1050 would only get you to 15 by that chart.    Not even CLOSE to top 10.

 

You want to go from 15 to 5 by adding a player then it's going to be a player like Gabe Davis..........not a MLB in his walk year or some spare part the Bills have kicking around.