How NFL money to help fund a new Bills stadium - Update NYS & and Erie County agree to pay nearly $1 billion. Owners meeting $200 M Vote

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

https://buffalonews.com/good-morning-buffalo-how-nfl-money-would-help-fund-a-new-bills-stadium/article_b583b978-9ce1-11ec-8d74-4b5cf475b176.html
 

 

Quote

Team owners Kim and Terry Pegula can apply for a loan from the league to help cover construction costs, up to $150 million of which could be repaid by the league’s other 31 franchises, through the visiting team’s share of Bills ticket revenue.

 

Borrow and share revenue.  
 

they do so already for other NFL services 

It’s a different angle.  
if it’s deemed redundant feel free to move, lock or delete 

Edited March 26, 2022 by SlimShady'sSpaceForce

[BarleyNY]

2 minutes ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:

https://buffalonews.com/good-morning-buffalo-how-nfl-money-would-help-fund-a-new-bills-stadium/article_b583b978-9ce1-11ec-8d74-4b5cf475b176.html
 

 

 

So let’s piece this together:

- $1.4B estimated cost (though there always seems to be overruns)

- $850M in “public funds” (awaiting details)

- $200M from Pegulas

- $150M NFL loan

 

That would leave $200M needed from other sources like PSLs.  In a 50k venue that works out to $4k per seat on average if only from PSLs.

 

https://sportsnaut.com/buffalo-bills-new-stadium-funds/amp/

[Mr. WEO]

28 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

So let’s piece this together:

- $1.4B estimated cost (though there always seems to be overruns)

- $850M in “public funds” (awaiting details)

- $200M from Pegulas

- $150M NFL loan

 

That would leave $200M needed from other sources like PSLs.  In a 50k venue that works out to $4k per seat on average if only from PSLs.

 

https://sportsnaut.com/buffalo-bills-new-stadium-funds/amp/

 

 

There's no way Pegula is only kicking in 200M...

[BarleyNY]

Just now, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

There's no way Pegula is only kicking in 200M...

The $150M is a loan that would also be paid back by the Pegulas. 

[Mr. WEO]

4 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

The $150M is a loan that would also be paid back by the Pegulas. 

 

 

"loan from the league to help cover construction costs, up to $150 million of which could be repaid by the league’s other 31 franchises, through the visiting team’s share of Bills ticket revenue."

 

If they borrow more, they pay the NFL back for the rest

 

 

Edited March 6, 2022 by Mr. WEO

[BarleyNY]

1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

"loan from the league to help cover construction costs, up to $150 million of which could be repaid by the league’s other 31 franchises, through the visiting team’s share of Bills ticket revenue."

 

 

 

 

Sorry.  Missed that.  Good catch.  Still seems nebulous though - “could be”.  It’s often difficult to get hard numbers regarding stadium financing.  I’m just trying to work through it.  No word on who eats cost overruns either. 

[Mr. WEO]

1 minute ago, BarleyNY said:

Sorry.  Missed that.  Good catch.  Still seems nebulous though - “could be”.  It’s often difficult to get hard numbers regarding stadium financing.  I’m just trying to work through it.  No word on who eats cost overruns either. 

 

 

The owner of the stadium, of course...

[Estro]

The article states the Pegulas have to come up with $200M of which less than half will from PSLs.  

 

It also stated the cheapest PSLs will cost $1,000.

 

So I'm guessing their benchmark for PSLs will be in the $80M range, through the sale of 50,000 season tickets. So you're looking at roughly an avg PSL of $1,600.  With the cheapest being $1000, you're probably looking at PSLs being in the 1k-2.5k per seat depending on where your seats are.

 

I still think PSLs are going to gut demand for season tickets. I know personally I've had season tickets for 20 years (4 of them) and I'm 100% throwing in the towel once I owe PSLs.  

 

I'm in section 134 so I'm predicting about a $2000 PSL per seat and there's just no way I'm forking over 8k to the Pegulas just for the privilege of forking over another 6k a year to pay for my tickets.  I'm only able to get to about 2-3 home games a year and with StubHub fees up around 45% (ludicrous) I just lose way too much money to justify paying for PSLs.

 

I'm curious what other Season Ticket Holders are thinking. You guys prepared to fork over 1-3k per ticket on PSLs?

Edited March 6, 2022 by Estro

[BarleyNY]

14 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

The owner of the stadium, of course...

One would hope.  The public has gotten hosed before, however.  The Bengals screwed the county they are located in on their deal. Their stadium opened way back in 2000 and negotiated back when teams had leverage of moving to Cleveland.  They paid less than 10% of the cost of their stadium - $44M of the $455M cost.  The public was also required to pay for upgrades and maintenance.  Cleveland got stuck with massive overrun costs for their baseball stadium and basketball arena when they were built too.

 

I’m not saying anyone is getting hosed here.  I’m just trying to figure out how the new stadium will be financed - and how much is coming from PSLs. 

7 minutes ago, Estro said:

The article states the Pegulas have to come up with $200M of which less than half will from PSLs.  

 

It also stated the cheapest PSLs will cost $1,000.

 

So I'm guessing their benchmark for PSLs will be in the $80M range, through the sale of 50,000 season tickets. So you're looking at roughly an avg PSL of $1,600.  With the cheapest being $1000, you're probably looking at PSLs being in the 1k-2.5k per seat depending on where your seats are.

 

I still think PSLs are going to gut demand for season tickets. I know personally I've had season tickets for 20 years (4 of them) and I'm 100% throwing in the towel once I owe PSLs.  

 

I'm in section 134 so I'm predicting about a $2000 PSL per seat and there's just no way I'm forking over 8k to the Pegulas just for the privilege of forking over another 6k a year to pay for my tickets.  I'm only able to get to about 2-3 home games a year and with StubHub fees up around 45% (ludicrous) I just lose way too much money to justify paying for PSLs.

 

I'm curious what other Season Ticket Holders are thinking. You guys prepared to fork over 1-3k per ticket on PSLs?

https://static.clubs.nfl.com/image/private/falcons/zykp7mef7y5pqoqut3da

 

Here is a chart for the Falcons PSL. Note that the prices listed are the 10% deposit on the PSLs, not the full price.  Add a zero for that.

 

One thing that runs me the wrong way regarding PSLs is that they are a money maker for teams.  The initial sale goes to financing the stadium, but when owners have to turn them back in the team gets to resell them and keeps the money.  When the team is bad, you move away or run into financial difficulties you have to either keep buying the season tickets, sell them privately (usually at a loss) or turn them back in to the team. 

Edited March 6, 2022 by BarleyNY

[Mr. WEO]

27 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

One would hope.  The public has gotten hosed before, however.  The Bengals screwed the county they are located in on their deal. Their stadium opened way back in 2000 and negotiated back when teams had leverage of moving to Cleveland.  They paid less than 10% of the cost of their stadium - $44M of the $455M cost.  The public was also required to pay for upgrades and maintenance.  Cleveland got stuck with massive overrun costs for their baseball stadium and basketball arena when they were built too.

 

 

 

One would hope not--the public will own this stadium, no the Bills.  They will likely pay for overruns.

[Utah John]

It annoys me every time I see the Pegulas getting credit for providing "private" money when a large part of that is from PSLs.  PSLs are purchased by the public, so that part of the overall financing should be considered public, not private, funds.

[Marv's Neighbor]

PSL's price families out of the ticket market.  Absent some kind of business write off, it;s almost impossible to economically justify that.  Just raise the ticket prices by the equivalent PSL figure, and see what the demand will be?

 

PSL's are especially difficult to justify in the years when the team sucks.  Historically, the BILLS are not playoff caliber every season therefore...fuget about em..

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

"loan from the league to help cover construction costs, up to $150 million of which could be repaid by the league’s other 31 franchises, through the visiting team’s share of Bills ticket revenue."

 

If they borrow more, they pay the NFL back for the rest

 

 

I took it as $200 plus the $150 loan from the NFL. 

So $350. That still leaves that wide gap depending on what the actual cost will be.  

[Bferra13]

Considering the bargain t pegs got the team for, he should eat the psl's. He got it a billion++ under market value now. Maybe this forecast will work now with Josh here. But sketchy at the least.

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:

I took it as $200 plus the $150 loan from the NFL. 

So $350. That still leaves that wide gap depending on what the actual cost will be.  

 

 

200 M is the minimum cash he has to commit to get at least 150M in G4 money.  So the minimum private funding is 350M.  A drop in the bucket...

[Simon Says]

Pegulas don't need a loan. Would love to hear them say they will personally pay for a dome.

[purple haze]

3 hours ago, Bferra13 said:

Considering the bargain t pegs got the team for, he should eat the psl's. He got it a billion++ under market value now. Maybe this forecast will work now with Josh here. But sketchy at the least.

He paid more for the team than they were valued at.  What bargain?

[ganesh]

The Players and the Bills are also effectively funding the Stadium

 

The Bills Salary cap is $200 M and let us assume they are paying $250M in actual cash (Signing bonus, roster bonus which are all amortized).    Most of the players will end up paying roughy 8-10% in State Income tax.  ($25M)

 

The Sales Tax (for expenses by the Bills players and families),  Property Tax on the homes purchased by them could result in another 1M or so in revenue. 

 

Additionally, the players could be spending on an average of 50K per year (per player/family) and generating cash in the community of around 2.5M and improving the viability of local business (Car dealers,  Household appliances,  Food, Retail, Entertainment etc). 

 

Let's assume the total impact of the BIlls players is $30M and add in a $4-5M impact with the rest of the Bills organization (Coaching staff, Trainers, Employees, Pegulas income). 

 

At a median (with moderate growth) of $40M per year impact,  the state should be able to recover (with a low interest loan) $1B in about 25 years which is the current state on Stadiums before they start requiring renovations,

 

This does not even consider the economic impact and growth generated due to the presence of the Bills in the Buffalo-Niagara area.  

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

https://nypost.com/2022/03/11/buffalo-bills-billionaire-owner-set-to-get-1b-in-public-funds-for-new-stadium/
 

 

Gov. Kathy Hochul — a Buffalo native — is expected to announce in the next several days a deal in which New York State and Erie County agree to pay nearly $1 billion toward a new $1.4 billion stadium that will be located next to the current one, sources close to the situation told The Post.

[WotAGuy]

On 3/6/2022 at 8:25 PM, ganesh said:

The Players and the Bills are also effectively funding the Stadium

 

The Bills Salary cap is $200 M and let us assume they are paying $250M in actual cash (Signing bonus, roster bonus which are all amortized).    Most of the players will end up paying roughy 8-10% in State Income tax.  ($25M)

 

 

I think the actual number is about half that; away games are income earned in other states and those states get that income tax. 

[PetermansRedemption]

I still don’t understand PSL’s. From a pure optics point, wouldn’t it just be better to increase the cost of the season tickets? And then you can say “look; we never charged any PSLs that the other greedy teams have been doing.”

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

1 hour ago, WotAGuy said:

I think the actual number is about half that; away games are income earned in other states and those states get that income tax. 

paying taxes for every state. 
 

hmmm. Do the Giants and Jets pay NY or NJ state taxes?

 

FLA, TX and Tenny had no state tax 

 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

https://buffalonews.com/news/local/nfl-owners-to-vote-on-funding-for-proposed-stadium-deal-for-buffalo-bills/article_3a506820-ab9e-11ec-8967-0be81fe5993c.html
 

Quote

On Friday afternoon, members of the National Football League’s stadium and finance committees – which include representatives from 16 of the 32 teams – are expected to vote to recommend the league approve a maximum $200 million loan to Bills owners Kim and Terry Pegula to help build a $1.4 billion stadium in Orchard Park.

 

Quote

Up to $150 million of the loan is forgivable, repaid through the visiting teams' share of Bills ticket revenue over 25 years, and is contingent on both public financing and the Pegulas contributing at least $200 million of their own equity to the project, according to the terms of the league's "G-4" loan program

 

[JakeFrommStateFarm]

On 3/12/2022 at 7:23 AM, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:

https://nypost.com/2022/03/11/buffalo-bills-billionaire-owner-set-to-get-1b-in-public-funds-for-new-stadium/
 

 

Gov. Kathy Hochul — a Buffalo native — is expected to announce in the next several days a deal in which New York State and Erie County agree to pay nearly $1 billion toward a new $1.4 billion stadium that will be located next to the current one, sources close to the situation told The Post.

I saw this caption under the picture of Pegula.

 

"Fracking billionaire Terry Pegula, who owns the Bills, has a fortune estimated at more than $7 billion. He’s threatened to pull the team from Buffalo unless he gets public funds to help build a new stadium."

 

The 1 billion will be a significant tax hike to the citizens of NYS and Erie County in addition to the cost of PSLs and season tickets.

[BarleyNY]

On 3/12/2022 at 9:28 AM, PetermansRedemption said:

I still don’t understand PSL’s. From a pure optics point, wouldn’t it just be better to increase the cost of the season tickets? And then you can say “look; we never charged any PSLs that the other greedy teams have been doing.”

The optics are for people who do not want public money spent on stadiums and who do not attend games.  It’s money that comes straight from people who go to games/buy tickets.  There is also a sneakier angle.  It is an additional revenue stream for owners if the team gets bad for long enough for people to turn their PSLs back in to the team because there is no market for them.  The team can then resell them when the market picks back up and keep that money. 

[HOUSE]

Just build the freaking thing and get it over with.

 

Geeeeez

[thenorthremembers]

1 hour ago, JakeFrommStateFarm said:

I saw this caption under the picture of Pegula.

 

"Fracking billionaire Terry Pegula, who owns the Bills, has a fortune estimated at more than $7 billion. He’s threatened to pull the team from Buffalo unless he gets public funds to help build a new stadium."

 

The 1 billion will be a significant tax hike to the citizens of NYS and Erie County in addition to the cost of PSLs and season tickets.

Its been discussed here.  Pegula never threatened anything.   It was a "report" that the team may move to Austin if they didnt get the Stadium. It was and continues to be total conjecture.

 

Plus the caption is a total hack job.

[Tanoros]

On 3/6/2022 at 10:19 AM, BarleyNY said:

Sorry.  Missed that.  Good catch.  Still seems nebulous though - “could be”.  It’s often difficult to get hard numbers regarding stadium financing.  I’m just trying to work through it.  No word on who eats cost overruns either. 

I’n this day and age, cost overruns are almost a guarantee too. I work in large construction infrastructure business (west coast), but we can’t seem to get a project to cost it’s original projection. Hopefully it’s easier for a large stadium, with less extra costs. 

[H2o]

6 minutes ago, Tanoros said:

I’n this day and age, cost overruns are almost a guarantee too. I work in large construction infrastructure business (west coast), but we can’t seem to get a project to cost it’s original projection. Hopefully it’s easier for a large stadium, with less extra costs. 

In this day and age, with the cost of materials and how they constantly fluctuate, it basically impossible to come in under or at projected cost. I see it all the time as well from the project management side at our chemical plant. 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

1 hour ago, HOUSE said:

Just build the freaking thing and get it over with.

 

Geeeeez

how much are you donating to the cause?

[YoloinOhio]

 

 

I couldn’t find a current stadium update thread 

[YoloinOhio]

 

[TheyCallMeAndy]

So NFL pays 200m, taxpayers pay the rest?

[Warcodered]

1 minute ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

So NFL pays 200m, taxpayers pay the rest?

It's a loan so they actually get a lot of it back though not all I believe.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

2 minutes ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

So NFL pays 200m, taxpayers pay the rest?

I see the word ‘loan’ 

[BuffaloRebound]

Article says Pegulas have to match the $200m from the NFL so it’s at least $400m in non-taxpayer funds.  

[PonyBoy]

It amazes me that the Bills can potentially pay one player like Allen $250M, Mahomes may get $500M, but the entire NFL can only provide a $200M "loan" for a team in their league to build a stadium that they will suck billions from for the next 40+ years. Just crazy!

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

 

 

[Warcodered]

12 minutes ago, PonyBoy said:

It amazes me that the Bills can potentially pay one player like Allen $250M, Mahomes may get $500M, but the entire NFL can only provide a $200M "loan" for a team in their league to build a stadium that they will suck billions from for the next 40+ years. Just crazy!

It's essentially a payment Cities/States pay to keep a team in their area, if they weren't willing to pay that for them being in their local area then it wouldn't happen.

[Heitz]

12 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

The optics are for people who do not want public money spent on stadiums and who do not attend games.  It’s money that comes straight from people who go to games/buy tickets.  There is also a sneakier angle.  It is an additional revenue stream for owners if the team gets bad for long enough for people to turn their PSLs back in to the team because there is no market for them.  The team can then resell them when the market picks back up and keep that money. 

Has this ever happened - PSLs holding so little value one turns them into the team?  
 

I’ve seen some hand wringing about the potential Bears moves (PSLs are only for Soldier Field, not a new stadium), but hadn’t read much into the value hold…

 

IDK, but seems like an investment I’m willing to speculate on, especially in a fresh new Stadium.

 

Just wait until Hammer stars selling parking NFTs that guarantees you parking for life right next to the new stadium 🤣🙌