How NFL money to help fund a new Bills stadium - Update NYS & and Erie County agree to pay nearly $1 billion. Owners meeting $200 M Vote

[Chandler#81]

13 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

yo Rip Van Winkle 

Haven’t you heard? They’re resurrecting the Rockpile, on the corner of Best & Jefferson. Open air, dual use football/baseball.

Buffalo’s got a spirit! Talking Proud!

[RangerDave]

12 hours ago, PrimeTime101 said:

what is not talked about here is the millions of dollars NFL Players put into their communities to help special needs.

I also wonder how much the players, coaches, trainers, etc. pay in NYS income tax each year?  With the cap at, say, $200m, the amount paid by just the players at a rate of 8.82% would be over $17m each year.  That doesn't include the amounts in property taxes, sales tax, etc.

[RangerDave]

2 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Can the NFL loan me $20 for gas?

That would barely fill my snowblower!

[JaCrispy]

This might be a dumb question, but would the Pegulas own the new stadium after it is built?

 

I only ask because I thought I heard somewhere that they would be paying a lease on the new stadium like they do Highmark Stadium...

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Pretty soon the Commanders will be doing the same thing 

once they figure out WHERE they will build their new stadium 🏟 

[SoCal Deek]

8 hours ago, MPT said:

 

I would point out that they just spent $1.5 billion so they could own a share of one of the most lucrative businesses in the history of business. I respect the Pegulas and I'm glad they invest a lot in Buffalo but let's not pretend that owning an NFL team is charity. 

Owning an NFL Team is not ‘one of the most lucrative businesses in the history of business’. In fact I’m not sure if a single owner makes the majority of their money from owning a team. They make their real money in another market. ( I could be wrong.) Is it an investment? Yes it is. But it’s a long term play, not a short term flip. 

[Beerball]

15 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

I couldn’t find a current stadium update thread 

So, when will the design be made public? No renderings seen yet?

[Gugny]

14 hours ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/ap-source-bills-initial-ok-205952092.html
 

24 of 32 votes are needed 

 

 

 

There's already a thread on this.

 

 

[GolfandBills]

I just wanna see what it’s going to look like 

[Steptide]

I don't know anything about this stuff, but if I were the pegulas, this is what I'd do - 

 

Build a stadium with a retractable roof and pay for the entire thing. Bring in multiple concerts throughout the year to help generate income, but also host a wide variety of other events like auto shows, home and garden shows etc. Make it a year round buisness. Again I know nothing about anything, that's just my thoughts if I had unlimited money 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

41 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

There's already a thread on this.

 

 

 

 

@Gugny

 

i started this thread about financing,  where it comes from and how much cash the state/ local region & the Pegs have to cough up 3 weeks ago and I was just keeping it current 

 

The Buff news link in the OP starts with 

 

The National Football League will help finance a new stadium for the Buffalo Bills.

Edited March 26, 2022 by SlimShady'sSpaceForce

[Beerball]

38 minutes ago, Gugny said:

bump

Thank you very much.

 

[Mr. WEO]

8 hours ago, Big Turk said:

Committee recommends their G4 application for the loan be approved and presented at owners meeting. 

 

Seriously, does anyone expect them to turn it down? The NFL is in the stadium building business.

 

24 of the 32 teams need to approve it. Who dares vote No?

 

When do they build their first one?

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

33 minutes ago, Steptide said:

I don't know anything about this stuff, but if I were the pegulas, this is what I'd do - 

 

Build a stadium with a retractable roof and pay for the entire thing. Bring in multiple concerts throughout the year to help generate income, but also host a wide variety of other events like auto shows, home and garden shows etc. Make it a year round buisness. Again I know nothing about anything, that's just my thoughts if I had unlimited money 

retractible would service all weather spring and summer events 

 

Just leave the roof open in the winter for Snow ❄️ games.    

[T master]

So let me get this right the TV deal before the betting thing took off was something like $44billion over 10 years (or something like that) & then they got the betting thing passed along with all the streaming rights now how many are Billions is that added to the take ?

 

And let me get this completely straight the NFL isn't made to invest any money what so ever in a stadium build yet they can reap all the benefits from it from 32 cities & the tax payers with in that city have to not only buy tickets & Merch when they go to games but have their taxes if they live in that area go up to build the stadium .

 

But the NFL doesn't have to put any cash at all up front to help with the amount of cash they will be getting from this ? WOW that is one hell of a deal so the NFL just has to put their shield on it & collect the cash but put nothing out for it that seems real fair to the fans in each city .

 

With the money they make there should be in some part of the agreement that if the host city is willing to have the land & put up with all the security in that area & make the proper road accommodations & pay for the upkeep & the building of the structure that the NFL should be on the hook for at least half the cost of these stadiums seeing as they make a huge amount of cash from it .

 

That just seems as though it would be part of the process seeing as this is a partnership between the NFL & the cities which they are a part of ! 

Edited March 26, 2022 by T master

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

3 minutes ago, T master said:

And let me get this completely straight the NFL isn't made to invest any money what so ever in a stadium build yet they can reap all the benefits from it from 32 cities & the tax payers with in that city have to not only but tickets & Merch when they go to games but have their taxes if they live in that area go up to build the stadium .

maybe it’s legalize but

 

Quote

Up to $150 million of the loan is forgivable, repaid through the visiting teams' share of Bills ticket revenue over 25 years, and is contingent on both public financing and the Pegulas contributing at least $200 million of their own equity to the project, according to the terms of the league's "G-4" loan program

 

I don’t know what Is forgivable means.  
 

[BuffaloBill]

The Pegula’s paid $1.4 B for the team with a current estimated value $2.2 B.  Unlike other business though the team makes very little money in the form of operating profit (or so says Forbes).  The point simply is that a team generally does not throw off a lot of cash to the owner.  Therefore, the Pegula’s have an argument in a small market to ay they do not wish to tie up more of their own personal wealth in a stadium.  

 

To me this is why the NFL ownership model is flat out wrong.  The NFL gets anti trust exemption. I would argue as a part of keeping that, part of the ownership of the franchise should go to the market (fans) say 49%.  This way the fans can gain from the net increase of the value of the franchise and exercise some measure of control over its future. It seems wrong to just milk money from PSLs tha offer no value in return other than the right to buy tickets. 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

12 minutes ago, BuffaloBill said:

Unlike other business though the team makes very little money in the form of operating profit (or so says Forbes).  The point simply is that a team generally does not throw off a lot of cash to the owner.  Therefore, the Pegula’s have an argument in a small market to ay they do not wish to tie up more of their own personal wealth in a stadium.  

I believe that is a direct reflection of 1 of the lowest ticket prices in the league 

 

 Google search indicates 

 

Bills playoff tickets can be found with an average price of $93.00.
 

Secondary market ~ $250 to $400

——————

Whereas in KC 

on the NFL Ticket Exchange,

you can find verified tickets available for resale.

Their least-expensive ticket option is at $445, where you’ll be seated in the upper 300’s. Seats in the front row, immediately behind the Chiefs bench are sitting at $3,600 per seat. Tickets in the 200’s are ranging between $1,000-2,000.

Edited March 26, 2022 by SlimShady'sSpaceForce

[hemma]

Glad I have a tv.

[Mr. WEO]

34 minutes ago, BuffaloBill said:

The Pegula’s paid $1.4 B for the team with a current estimated value $2.2 B.  Unlike other business though the team makes very little money in the form of operating profit (or so says Forbes).  The point simply is that a team generally does not throw off a lot of cash to the owner.  Therefore, the Pegula’s have an argument in a small market to ay they do not wish to tie up more of their own personal wealth in a stadium.  

 

To me this is why the NFL ownership model is flat out wrong.  The NFL gets anti trust exemption. I would argue as a part of keeping that, part of the ownership of the franchise should go to the market (fans) say 49%.  This way the fans can gain from the net increase of the value of the franchise and exercise some measure of control over its future. It seems wrong to just milk money from PSLs tha offer no value in return other than the right to buy tickets. 

 

Since he bought the team almost 8 years ago, the Bills have, according to Forbes, netted Pegula 383 million in profit and have increased his net worth nearly another billion on top of that.

 

It's a business with a guaranteed annual minimum income/revenue where the value of the business only increases at over 10% a year.  

 

In a bigger market, Pegula wouldn't be more inclined to offer more for the stadium.  

[PrimeTime101]

3 hours ago, RangerDave said:

I also wonder how much the players, coaches, trainers, etc. pay in NYS income tax each year?  With the cap at, say, $200m, the amount paid by just the players at a rate of 8.82% would be over $17m each year.  That doesn't include the amounts in property taxes, sales tax, etc.

there ya have it...

 

 

[Big Turk]

2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

When do they build their first one?

 

You know what I mean smart ass

[JakeFrommStateFarm]

1B seems to be a pretty large public investment. 

 

Atlanta taxpayers only put up 200-300m I believe. And that was payed by out of towners paying a raised hotel/motel and rental car tax. Las Vegas did the same thing. 

 

What would the tax hike be per NYS citizen?

 

And what would be the desire for citizens to pay increased taxes in an environment of record inflation and gas prices ?

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Just now, JakeFrommStateFarm said:

1B seems to be a pretty large public investment. 

 

Atlanta taxpayers only put up 200-300m I believe. And that was payed by out of towners paying a raised hotel/motel and rental car tax. Las Vegas did the same thing. 

 

What would the tax hike be per NYS citizen?

 

And what would be the desire for citizens to pay increased taxes in an environment of record inflation and gas prices ?

how long ago?  
 

How much did the LA Stadium cost?

 

between $5 billion and $6 billion

[JakeFrommStateFarm]

8 minutes ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:

how long ago?  
 

How much did the LA Stadium cost?

 

Mercedes benz was opened in 2017 at a cost of 1.5 billion. It has a retractable roof.

 

Rams owner almost payed for his entire stadium by himself with very little public financing. He makes his money back in PSLs and corporate luxury boxes. Sofi stadium was 5B

Edited March 26, 2022 by JakeFrommStateFarm

[UConn James]

4 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

Owning an NFL Team is not ‘one of the most lucrative businesses in the history of business’. In fact I’m not sure if a single owner makes the majority of their money from owning a team. They make their real money in another market. ( I could be wrong.) Is it an investment? Yes it is. But it’s a long term play, not a short term flip. 

Mark Davis, iirc, Raiders are his only source of income.

[SoCal Deek]

1 hour ago, UConn James said:

Mark Davis, iirc, Raiders are his only source of income.

His father owned it and gave it to him

I don’t recall where Al Davis made his money

[mikemac2001]

4 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

His father owned it and gave it to him

I don’t recall where Al Davis made his money

Owning a football team

[SoCal Deek]

3 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Since he bought the team almost 8 years ago, the Bills have, according to Forbes, netted Pegula 383 million in profit and have increased his net worth nearly another billion on top of that.

 

It's a business with a guaranteed annual minimum income/revenue where the value of the business only increases at over 10% a year.  

 

In a bigger market, Pegula wouldn't be more inclined to offer more for the stadium.  

That doesn’t sound like the windfall others on here trying to make it out to be. 

[SoCal Deek]

6 minutes ago, mikemac2001 said:

Owning a football team

So where did he get his money to join the AFL?

[mikemac2001]

7 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

So where did he get his money to join the AFL?

Being a football player / coach 

 

How They Made Their Money: Al earned the family's money, starting as a line coach at USC and moving up to become a player personnel assistant, an assistant coach, a head coach, a general manager, an AFL league commissioner and then eventually the owner of the Raiders.

Edited March 26, 2022 by mikemac2001

[Jeff in pa.]

Just curious. Is the new stadium going to be owned by the county?

[Mr. WEO]

2 hours ago, Big Turk said:

 

You know what I mean smart ass

i. Know.  It’s a cheeky way of pointing out how wrong your post was.

 

the NFL is explicitly in the business of avoiding stadium building and foisting this on taxpayers instead.  
 

 

17 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

That doesn’t sound like the windfall others on here trying to make it out to be. 

 

it’s 9-10 figures of free money.  That’s a windfall by any known definition.

[SoCal Deek]

12 minutes ago, mikemac2001 said:

Being a football player / coach 

 

How They Made Their Money: Al earned the family's money, starting as a line coach at USC and moving up to become a player personnel assistant, an assistant coach, a head coach, a general manager, an AFL league commissioner and then eventually the owner of the Raiders.

Thanks!

6 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

i. Know.  It’s a cheeky way of pointing out how wrong your post was.

 

the NFL is explicitly in the business of avoiding stadium building and foisting this on taxpayers instead.  
 

 

 

it’s 9-10 figures of free money.  That’s a windfall by any known definition.

Earning 300 million over a decade on an initial investment of 1.5 billion is not a windfall

You can make way more than that with the help of a good financial advisor

[ddaryl]

15 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

it’s 9-10 figures of free money.  That’s a windfall by any known definition.

You will have to explain the free money part, or how you define "free money"
 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

15 hours ago, BillsShredder83 said:

This actually eased my troubles some so I appreciate it! The wind is absolutely the #1 problem take the wind out and minimize some rain. Any idea if the upper decks will have some kind of partial overhead covering?

The wind and rain combo when its 35f out is just miserable. I'm past the point of needing to feel macho. It plain sucks to spend a couple hundred bucks between tailgate food, tickers, parking, and be soaking wet, swirling winds (/rant)

 

I never said it's going to happen, just that they should relatively easily address it LOL

 

Not certain  on the upper deck but from what's been written I'm envisioning something that looks like Hard Rock, so yeah I believe all seats will be covered.  Likely the people who could get the wettest would be those closest to field in a driving rain, could come up under the overhand

 

 

14 hours ago, Big Turk said:

Committee recommends their G4 application for the loan be approved and presented at owners meeting. 

 

Seriously, does anyone expect them to turn it down? The NFL is in the stadium building business.

 

24 of the 32 teams need to approve it. Who dares vote No?

 

So I've read this statement like three times:

 

Up to $150 million of the loan is forgivable, repaid through the visiting teams' share of Bills ticket revenue over 25 years

 

Does this mean say when the Bills visit Miami the Bills share of ticket sales will go to repay the loan?  Or the other way, when Miami comes to Buffalo that share will go towards the loan?

[Buffalo716]

3 hours ago, JakeFrommStateFarm said:

Mercedes benz was opened in 2017 at a cost of 1.5 billion. It has a retractable roof.

 

Rams owner almost payed for his entire stadium by himself with very little public financing. He makes his money back in PSLs and corporate luxury boxes. Sofi stadium was 5B

Los Angeles and buffalo are two different animals .. same with atl and buffalo

 

Not to mention the economy of building things today compared to 2017 is like tripled

Edited March 26, 2022 by Buffalo716

[Mr. WEO]

2 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

Thanks!

Earning 300 million over a decade on an initial investment of 1.5 billion is not a windfall

You can make way more than that with the help of a good financial advisor

 

 

You missed the part where I said his 1.4 billion investment has risen in value 64% in 8 years---simply by existing.

 

Plus it has paid a nice dividend averaging over 40 million a year---all with no significant input by the owner being necessary.

 

 

2 hours ago, ddaryl said:

You will have to explain the free money part, or how you define "free money"
 

 

 

In 2021, the revenue given (through league revenue sharing) equally to every team was 274 million.  The salary cap was 183 million.  

 

So every team every year has their player and staff salaries covered, without selling a single ticket or jersey yet, whether the team is a perennial playoff contender or the worst in the league.

[Big Turk]

2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

i. Know.  It’s a cheeky way of pointing out how wrong your post was.

 

the NFL is explicitly in the business of avoiding stadium building and foisting this on taxpayers instead.  
 

 

 

it’s 9-10 figures of free money.  That’s a windfall by any known definition.

 

They are in the business of building new stadiums to generate more revenues, seat licences and more luxury boxes. Obviously they will do their best to pay the least amount of money possible to do it. That doesn't change the fact they want to build as many new stadiums as possible.

[Mr. WEO]

42 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

They are in the business of building new stadiums to generate more revenues, seat licences and more luxury boxes. Obviously they will do their best to pay the least amount of money possible to do it. That doesn't change the fact they want to build as many new stadiums as possible.

 

They aren't in the business of building at all.  No need to repeat--it won't become more correct.  

 

They demand new stadiums.  A very small number of individual owners build them....the rest extort new stadiums from the public and fans.  That's not a "building" business at all.  "The NFL" could, however, easily fund the entire cost of each new stadium as it comes due for one.  Then you could accurately claim they are in the business of building stadiums.

 

That day isn't coming, however.