Danielle Hunter, DE, the perfect trade candidate

[Estro]

2 hours ago, Niagara Dude said:

How are you fitting that salary into our cap?  you need to send out a contract. His cap number for 2022 is around 26 million, yikes! we would need to send them Milano or Edmunds and still need to do a load of work.  

His cap hit with the Vikings is $26M with he Vikings but as soon as he's traded to another team he's due $25.5M over 2 years by his new team.  His cap hit would not be $26M with the Bills, is what I'm trying to say.

 

Long way of saying the Bills could very easily fit Hunter into the cap going forward if they were inclined to do so

[BuffaloRebound]

I’m not giving up a 1st for a guy who’s played 7 games the last 2 years due to injuries.  Diggs was a couple years younger and had no injury history. 

[bobobonators]

9 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said:

I’m not giving up a 1st for a guy who’s played 7 games the last 2 years due to injuries.  Diggs was a couple years younger and had no injury history. 

I agree. I like Hunter, but the guy is turning 28 this october and does have a history of injuries. That being said, I would do it for a 2nd round pick. I think due to where the Bills are - literally on the brink of a super bowl appearance - giving up a 2nd round pick and taking a gamble on his injuries would be worth it.

[NewEra]

2 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Would a 2nd and a 4th get it done?

Considering that we’ll have to pay the guy 20-30M and we’re only 2M under the cap, still have to pay Bates, Harry, CB2, find more WRs, TE2, replace Morse and DWill by 2023, replace or pay Jerry and Mario……..I’d almost rather give up the first and have 2 picks instead of one.  

 

I just can’t fathom something like this happening considering our cap sitch

[FireChans]

10 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

That's a lesson that teams with young dominant quarterbacks should in no way learn. Teams with Matt Stafford, maybe. Teams with Josh Allen, no.

I bet the Chiefs regret trading for Frank Clark and pushing their cap to the limit. Oh, wait, no. They got a SuperBowl out of it.

8 hours ago, Magox said:

As great as he talent as he is, Beane values availability and Hunter has only played in 7 games the past two years.

AJ Epenesa has been super available, very easy to stay healthy in street clothes.

6 hours ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

Check back with my after the SB and I will let you know.

We haven’t played in a Super Bowl in 30 years. Rams have gone to 2 in the last four. No reason to wait.

5 hours ago, Utah John said:

The Rams chose to go all-in for this year.  Going forward they'll struggle to keep their team together.

 

Beane has been conscientiously working to build an enduring top-notch team, one that will be strong year after year, by NOT chasing high-cost performers that distort the payscale of the players under the salary cap.  

 

Are good players better than picks?  Well, good players on their rookie contracts are a hell of a lot cheaper than veterans, and that matters if the goal is to have a strong, complete team.  

 

If the Rams win the SB, they'll look smart for having made the choices they did.  But they almost didn't make it, which would make them look foolish for making the same choices.  And whether the Rams win the 2021 SB, it's a really likely outcome that the 2024 Bills will be better than the 2024 Rams.

Winning the Super Bowl is the goal. Winning a playoff game in 2024 is not.

[atlbillsfan1975]

6 minutes ago, FireChans said:

I bet the Chiefs regret trading for Frank Clark and pushing their cap to the limit. Oh, wait, no. They got a SuperBowl out of it.

AJ Epenesa has been super available, very easy to stay healthy in street clothes.

We haven’t played in a Super Bowl in 30 years. Rams have gone to 2 in the last four. No reason to wait.

Winning the Super Bowl is the goal. Winning a playoff game in 2024 is not.

If the Rams lose tonight, that’s the reason not to copy their approach exactly. I am all for trading our first round pick for a pass rusher. After that I’m not sure how much more I want to emulate the Rams style if they lose. 

[Jay_Fixit]

I don’t know if I can handle a man named Danielle on my team.

[FireChans]

1 hour ago, bobobonators said:

I feel this narrative is getting kind of old.

 

The Rams made their first super bowl under McVay based off amazing draft picks (many of which had already been drafted), not FA, and a fresh perspective from their young HC. They drafted Cooper Kupp, they drafted Goff, they drafted Tyler Higbee, they drafted Gurley, and they drafted Donald (off the top of my head). 

 

This second super bowl rendition of the Rams is more of a mercenary approach, b/c if you look at the draft history under McVay, there are many more misses than hits. They really haven't drafted well since he's been there. But the entire key in all this was the ability to trade for Stafford. How many times is a player like Stafford available for a trade? All the Ramsey's, OBJ's and Von Miller's in the world would've meant squat without the ability to trade for Stafford. And it was a huge gamble, b/c as we saw multiple times this year, Stafford still almost blew it for them. Where would the Rams be right now without their ability to trade for Stafford? Likely not the super bowl.

 

The Rams have been able to make it work but i'm not sure how their approach can be applied to other teams around the league. There aren't many Stafford-type QB's available for trade every season. If the Rams hadn't been able to trade for Stafford they'd probably be looking at another 9-7/10-6 season, with an early exit in the playoffs, all while being in cap hell. 

 

The approach the Chiefs and even Bills have taken is much more sustainable in my opinion. You have to hit on some key draft picks and supplement them with mid-tier veteran FA signings. In my opinion it creates an atmosphere where success can last 10+years, whereas the Rams may be on the brink of collapse within 1-2yrs. Or who knows, maybe they'll trade for Josh Allen in 2 years.

The Chiefs traded a second round pick for a pass rusher and gave him a monster contract before the won the Super Bowl.

 

Furthermore, the Rams haven’t had a first round pick since 2016. Every year y’all say they are on the brink of being done, except McVay keeps winning. He has the hugest win percentage in the NFL. 
 

will the chickens come home to roost at some point? Sure, they will have a down year eventually. But they have been a great team for over 5 years now, made 2 Super Bowls, and have the winningest coach in the NFL. 
 

Furthermore, we just had an early exit from the playoffs. So if they couldn’t have traded picks for difference-makers, they’d be the Bills? You made my point for me looooool

[Nextmanup]

10 hours ago, FireChans said:

Who cares? Have the Rams not taught you that good players are better than picks?

Or to put it another way, when was the last time anyone in this league turned a pick number into an elite superstar, especially if the pick is out of the top 5 in the draft? 
 

Teams don't know how to properly evaluate and rank talent, except for the really obvious stuff that is so easy you can't screw it up.

 

 

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

If the Rams lose tonight, that’s the reason not to copy their approach exactly. I am all for trading our first round pick for a pass rusher. After that I’m not sure how much more I want to emulate the Rams style if they lose. 

Bro, you can’t play if you’re afraid to lose. 

[bobobonators]

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

The Chiefs traded a second round pick for a pass rusher and gave him a monster contract before the won the Super Bowl.

 

Furthermore, the Rams haven’t had a first round pick since 2016. Every year y’all say they are on the brink of being done, except McVay keeps winning. He has the hugest win percentage in the NFL. 
 

will the chickens come home to roost at some point? Sure, they will have a down year eventually. But they have been a great team for over 5 years now, made 2 Super Bowls, and have the winningest coach in the NFL. 
 

Furthermore, we just had an early exit from the playoffs. So if they couldn’t have traded picks for difference-makers, they’d be the Bills? You made my point for me looooool

 

They made one super bowl on the back of great draft picks.

 

They made a second super bowl on the back of a trade for a QB, where all the stars aligned, and that happens maybe once every 20yrs in the NFL. 

 

Also, McVay has a lot to do with their success. All i'm saying is that what the Rams have done is not necessarily a blueprint that other teams should or even can follow. 

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, bobobonators said:

 

They made one super bowl on the back of great draft picks.

 

They made a second super bowl on the back of a trade for a QB, where all the stars aligned, and that happens maybe once every 20yrs in the NFL. 

 

Also, McVay has a lot to do with their success. All i'm saying is that what the Rams have done is not necessarily a blueprint that other teams should or even can follow. 

Well, they traded a bunch of picks for Goff… I ultimately agree with you. But there is a lesson to be learned and that lesson is the name of the game is acquiring stars because stars win Super Bowls. Not draft picks, not cap space, not trying to be a 10 win team in 2026.

Edited February 13, 2022 by FireChans

[aristocrat]

We gonna give Rousseau a chance?

[LyndonvilleBill]

20 minutes ago, aristocrat said:

We gonna give Rousseau a chance?

I am more than willing. People just don't have patience anymore. Plus for close to the same cap space Hunter would cost, you could probably keep Hughes, wallace and Harry. Heck, you could probably add Obada as well. And still have the picks to use.

Edited February 13, 2022 by LyndonvilleBill

[aristocrat]

7 minutes ago, LyndonvilleBill said:

I am more than willing. People just don't have patience anymore. Plus for close to the same cap space Hunter would cost, you could probably keep Hughes, wallace and Harry. Heck, you could probably add Obada as well. And still have the picks to use.

Let’s see what we have for the first half next year and draft other positions and if we need pass rush we add at the deadline 

[RyanC883]

6 hours ago, Utah John said:

The Rams chose to go all-in for this year.  Going forward they'll struggle to keep their team together.

 

Beane has been conscientiously working to build an enduring top-notch team, one that will be strong year after year, by NOT chasing high-cost performers that distort the payscale of the players under the salary cap.  

 

Are good players better than picks?  Well, good players on their rookie contracts are a hell of a lot cheaper than veterans, and that matters if the goal is to have a strong, complete team.  

 

If the Rams win the SB, they'll look smart for having made the choices they did.  But they almost didn't make it, which would make them look foolish for making the same choices.  And whether the Rams win the 2021 SB, it's a really likely outcome that the 2024 Bills will be better than the 2024 Rams.

 

Beans strategy is continual Dolphins level team and hope we catch a hot streak.  You can have this front 7 and win a SB. 

1 hour ago, BuffaloRebound said:

I’m not giving up a 1st for a guy who’s played 7 games the last 2 years due to injuries.  Diggs was a couple years younger and had no injury history. 

 

how many games did Groot play in and had an impact last year?   Less than 7

48 minutes ago, FireChans said:

The Chiefs traded a second round pick for a pass rusher and gave him a monster contract before the won the Super Bowl.

 

Furthermore, the Rams haven’t had a first round pick since 2016. Every year y’all say they are on the brink of being done, except McVay keeps winning. He has the hugest win percentage in the NFL. 
 

will the chickens come home to roost at some point? Sure, they will have a down year eventually. But they have been a great team for over 5 years now, made 2 Super Bowls, and have the winningest coach in the NFL. 
 

Furthermore, we just had an early exit from the playoffs. So if they couldn’t have traded picks for difference-makers, they’d be the Bills? You made my point for me looooool

 

the Rams have also had I think the most overall draft pocks in that time, just in lower rounds.  So they have high paid proven stars, avoid an Edmunds conundrum, and go to two SB’s in that span. 

[ColoradoBills]

2 hours ago, Estro said:

That's just not true. He's owed $25.5M over the next 2 years. You could easily tack on a 2-3 year extension and his '22 cap hit could be as low as $5-6M while still giving him the $20M in cash he's due in '22. 

 

The cap is set to soar starting next year & pushing $ into future years allows us to make a big move or 2 this season

 

I do hope Beane can find a way to get an impact player or 2 on the team.  I'm not sure if Hunter is that guy or not and also not sure

what OBD thinks it can and cannot do.

The one thing I want to comment on is the bolded.  If fans don't think that Beane knows about this and is working the numbers they are fooling

themselves.

Beane knows full well what's going on and that is why his contract with Josh goes up $23M in 2023 from his 2022 cap hit.

[FireChans]

1 hour ago, aristocrat said:

We gonna give Rousseau a chance?

We start two DE’s. 

[Freddie's Dead]

Danielle?  Yes, please.

 

[HappyDays]

6 hours ago, mannc said:

That strategy’s worked out so well for the “Commanders” and the Jets…we did not lose to KC because our defense isn’t good enough.

 

You can't evaluate any strategy used by teams without a franchise QB. If Washington had a franchise QB they would be one of the best teams in the league.

 

And how can you say defense wasn't a problem in a game where our opponent scored 42 points?

[NoSaint]

12 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

That's a lesson that teams with young dominant quarterbacks should in no way learn. Teams with Matt Stafford, maybe. Teams with Josh Allen, no.

yea, must really suck to be a chiefs fan with that super bowl parade they had. It’s downright chilly in February. No one thinks if the consequences of adding dominant pass rushers. 

[HappyDays]

3 hours ago, Estro said:

I guess my thought is, with an aging avg. QB on Kirk Cousins I think the Vikings are on the cusp of blowing it up and beginning a rebuild.  If thats the case you wonder if they'd be motivated to maybe flip Hunter for draft picks because by the time they're ready to truly compete in a few years he'll probably be a declining player.  

 

New regimes are expected to turn their franchise around within 2-3 years. Trading Hunter just gives them another hole on their roster and it won't be easy finding someone that talented again. The only reason players like Hunter become available is if he wants out of Minnesota, but there haven't been any reports of that. I don't see the logic in them trading an elite talent at the point of his lowest trade value.

[HappyDays]

2 hours ago, aristocrat said:

We gonna give Rousseau a chance?

 

I'm optimistic about Rousseau, but even in the best case scenario of his development I doubt he hits his ceiling this season and across from him it is a collection of JAGs. The Bills might have the worst DE room in the league if Rousseau doesn't progress. IMO it's the biggest hole on the roster. Beane will keep putting resources into the d-line until it is capable of taking over games, as he should.

[Augie]

43 minutes ago, Freddie's Dead said:

Danielle?  Yes, please.

 

 

I enjoy tennis!   😋

 

 

I’m afraid this thread has doomed any chance of this happening. Has a hypothetical trade suggested here EVER actually happened?  

[atlbillsfan1975]

2 hours ago, FireChans said:

Bro, you can’t play if you’re afraid to lose. 

I don’t see how this phrase is relevant to this discussion.

Edited February 13, 2022 by atlbillsfan1975

[3rdand12]

49 minutes ago, FireChans said:

We start two DE’s. 

and rotate two more in over the game
 Sean and Leslie say

"cant have too many pass rushers"

I say

"you cannot have too many very very good pass rushers"
 

High risk high reward with Hunter. Maybe Bills thinks they can keep him healthy a couple seasons.

 

 But can he set an edge ?

[mannc]

51 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

You can't evaluate any strategy used by teams without a franchise QB. If Washington had a franchise QB they would be one of the best teams in the league.

 

And how can you say defense wasn't a problem in a game where our opponent scored 42 points?

I like the idea of having a franchise QB and then getting him the best weapons available…it’s why the Bengals have a game today.  
 

And we lost to the Chiefs because our coaching staff wasn’t up to the task…you can’t convince me that the Chiefs’ defense is better than ours…

[ColoradoBills]

6 minutes ago, mannc said:

I like the idea of having a franchise QB and then getting him the best weapons available…it’s why the Bengals have a game today.  
 

And we lost to the Chiefs because our coaching staff wasn’t up to the task…you can’t convince me that the Chiefs’ defense is better than ours…

 

I so wanted Trey Hendrickson in FA last year.  I'm waiting to see how he plays for the Bengals today.

Much better of a move than going for Hunter this year.

Signing Trey meant Beane could of passed on Boogie for Creed Humphrey.

All that with Fournette for $3.5M would of meant a SB win IMO even with a couple bad coaching moves.

 

I seldom do the, could of, should of, would of, but today's game is going to bring that out in me!

[HappyDays]

13 minutes ago, mannc said:

I like the idea of having a franchise QB and then getting him the best weapons available…it’s why the Bengals have a game today.  

 

The Bengals are in the Super Bowl because they held the Chiefs under 30 points... They did it because Hendrickson and Reader affected Mahomes. We're missing a true game changer in our front 4. Oliver got closer to that conversation this year but it's still not enough.

[Process]

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

 

The Bengals are in the Super Bowl because they held the Chiefs under 30 points... They did it because Hendrickson and Reader affected Mahomes. We're missing a true game changer in our front 4. Oliver got closer to that conversation this year but it's still not enough.

The Bills d line got to Mahomes. The reason the Bengals are playing today and we aren't is because Mahomes was a magician vs the Bills, and turned into Nathan Peterman vs the Bengals. 

 

The Bengals D is not better than ours. Our D is good enough. 

 

We have a superstar QB, keep building around him and give him weapons, and he'll get us there.

 

IMO.

[BADOLBILZ]

3 hours ago, Jay_Fixit said:

I don’t know if I can handle a man named Danielle on my team.

 

It's pronounced Duh-Neil like Da'Rick.

[HappyDays]

11 minutes ago, Process said:

The Bills d line got to Mahomes.

 

I don't consider Addison desperately trying to catch up to Mahomes as "getting to him." It was an embarrassing performance from the d-line. Their entire first TD drive was just Mahomes running away from them. Danielle Hunter is a finisher. 6 sacks in the 7 games he played last year.

[mannc]

21 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

The Bengals are in the Super Bowl because they held the Chiefs under 30 points... They did it because Hendrickson and Reader affected Mahomes. We're missing a true game changer in our front 4. Oliver got closer to that conversation this year but it's still not enough.

It was a coaching failure.  There is no excuse for rushing four at the end of regulation.  And why wasn’t our coaching staff able to make the second half adjustments the Bengals made, rushing three and putting 8 guys in coverage?

[BADOLBILZ]

17 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

The Bengals are in the Super Bowl because they held the Chiefs under 30 points... They did it because Hendrickson and Reader affected Mahomes. We're missing a true game changer in our front 4. Oliver got closer to that conversation this year but it's still not enough.

 

 

It's ignorant to look at it that simply.     The division game between Buff/KC was played at a very high intensity level.........the championship game was not particularly well played by either team.   When Burrow threw that stupid pick in the second half after they just got a KC turnover.......it was as if nobody wanted to win the game.  

 

If that Chiefs team showed up the week before it would have looked a lot like the 38-20 win the Bills secured in Arrowhead earlier in the season.    And before you anoint their pass rush,  remember the Bengals gave up 31 in regulation to the Chiefs at home in Cinci a few weeks earlier.

 

It took a half of terrible football from the Chiefs to get that game into OT..........if you're gameplan is built around the hope the Chiefs just play like sh*t when you face them that's not really a great plan, IMO.

[Solomon Grundy]

5 hours ago, Magox said:

How many games did Star miss in his 5 years with Carolina?

Not sure, but he missed a helluva lot in Buffalo for my liking 

[FireChans]

1 hour ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

I don’t see how this phrase is relevant to this discussion.

Because you said this:

3 hours ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

If the Rams lose tonight, that’s the reason not to copy their approach exactly. I am all for trading our first round pick for a pass rusher. After that I’m not sure how much more I want to emulate the Rams style if they lose. 

The Rams have gone to the Super Bowl twice in the last 4 years. Win or lose, their system gave them a shot to win the big one.

 

We have not gotten to a single Super Bowl in 30 years. Our system has not.

 

My favorite trope on TBD is acting like all these other team's strategies don't work because they didn't necessarily win a Super Bowl, unlike our strategy which.... also hasn't produced a Super Bowl. 

 

Extremely funny.

Edited February 13, 2022 by FireChans

[JohnNord]

14 hours ago, inaugural balls said:

 

Terrific player but I don’t see Beane going back to this well for yet another DL with that cost. Not after last years investments. 

The reason Buffalo is in this spot is because Beane’s investments have not panned out well so far.  

[BADOLBILZ]

 

I really like Hunter but I can't see trading a first round pick or multiple other picks AND having to extend his contract when he's missed 26 of the last 33 games.

 

The neck issue that caused him to miss 2020 was particularly concerning...........there was a lot of talk about him never playing again during that.

 

Seems like another one of those situations where teams might not be able to justify giving up the requisite draft capital to make it of equal value for Minnesota to give him up........especially when there is a pretty shiny class of early round pass rushers out there this year.

 

Definitely A LOT more warts on Hunter than there was Diggs.

 

Also worth noting that he's played LDE almost exclusively in his career.........which is where Groot is positioned.    Hunter may still be able to handle LT's.........but they are generally better pass blockers.   Would really like to see a proven RDE pass rusher if I am trading top picks and giving out a new big money deal.

[HappyDays]

17 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

And before you anoint their pass rush,  remember the Bengals gave up 31 in regulation to the Chiefs at home in Cinci a few weeks earlier.

 

Okay... that's still 5 less points and would have been the difference in our game.

 

I'm not betting on the Chiefs to play a bad game. Quite the opposite, I want our defense to be able to force them into one. Or at least force a punt more than once or twice. It's hard for our offense to perform much better than it did in that game and it still lost.

 

I don't think trying to make out shootout win percentage 1% higher is a good strategy. Those games are always 50/50. The Chiefs had the ball last so they won. No amount of offensive skill players tilts the clock in our favor.

[BADOLBILZ]

10 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Okay... that's still 5 less points and would have been the difference in our game.

 

I'm not betting on the Chiefs to play a bad game. Quite the opposite, I want our defense to be able to force them into one. Or at least force a punt more than once or twice. It's hard for our offense to perform much better than it did in that game and it still lost.

 

I don't think trying to make out shootout win percentage 1% higher is a good strategy. Those games are always 50/50. The Chiefs had the ball last so they won. No amount of offensive skill players tilts the clock in our favor.

 

 

If you are being that simplistic.........both the Bills and Bengals gave up 55 points to the Chiefs in regulation in their two games...........and the Bills had to play both games in Arrowhead.

 

The Bills had the best defense in the NFL this year..........I will give the Bengals credit for broadly adjusting their game plan to the opponent in the second half of the AFCCG while the Bills traditionally refuse to do that under McDermott.......but that game should have been over by then......the Bengals D gave up 24 in the first half and only a total mental lapse by Mahomes in the closing seconds kept it from being 27 or 31.    That play threw Mahomes into a nose dive of bad decisions and inaccuracy like we've never seen from him.  The Bengals didn't play a good game in general........the Chiefs played down to them in the second half.

 

The Bills could use more pass rush for sure but what hurts them is not being able to adjust their plan against KC.     Pittsburgh had the same issue when playing NE for years..........they were a great D against most anyone else but they weren't multiple enough in their back end to slow down NE when it mattered.     KC is also good at adjusting to their opponent........see the game plan they threw together against Buffalo in the 2020 AFCCG.    The players in the Bills back 7 have on average 4 years plus of experience together..........that familiarity is totally wasted by not mixing things up. 

 

That's what I want to see from the defense.     Defense is notoriously hard to keep at a high level for more than a couple straight seasons...........but being able to adapt your game plan to the opponent should always be attainable.