How Do you Feel about the State of The Buffalo Bills-just a little offseason discussion

[pocoboy]

There's definitely a hinge point right now.

• You've lost presumably one of the primary guys who helped develop Allen.
• But on the flip, in the same man you've also lost the guy who struggled to make the run game threatening enough to be the counter to the potent passing attack.
• You have to have some turmoil right now with whatever gets decided is the real story behind the 13 second collapse. If only that Allen has to have some real difficulties accepting the fact he won that game and the other facets botched it in such excruciating fashion.
• With all of that, you've also seen a team respond to some early season woes & improve in the process. The run game became competent enough to allow Allen some better looks through the air. And the defense mostly shored up their issues in terms of stopping the run.

I feel Dorsey will offer some continuity. He's gonna need to figure out ways to spring Diggs in the games where teams take him away. Hopefully the learnings from the 2nd half OL carousel can give them a solid footing when they hit August. I think the future is bright, but the KC debacle needs to be the last time we see such a sorry display - the Hopkins Hail Mary was bad enough, it's tough to believe they found a way to top that...

Edited February 2, 2022 by pocoboy

[Jim Bob]

18 hours ago, loveorhatembillsfan4life said:

Should there be a sense of Urgency this offseason to address certain areas of this team in Free Agency as opposed to the Draft?

 

I would say that I am optimistic moving forward.

 

I also would like to see a little bit more Les Snead in Beane. But, I also know that due to the cap situation, we might need to wait a year for a big name impact player like Chandler Jones or Von Miller to be a realistic option.

 

 

[TPS]

3 minutes ago, pocoboy said:

There's definitely a hinge point right now.

• You've lost presumably one of the primary guys who helped develop Allen.
• But on the flip, in the same man you've also lost the guy who struggled to make the run game threatening enough to be the counter to the potent passing attack.
• You have to have some turmoil right now with whatever gets decided is the real story behind the 13 second collapse. If only that Allen has to have some real difficulties accepting the fact he won that game and the other facets botched it in such excruciating fashion.
• With all of that, you've also seen a team respond to some early season woes & improve in the process. The run game became competent enough to allow Allen some better looks through the air. And the defense mostly shored up their issues in terms of stopping the run.

I feel Dorsey will offer some continuity. He's gonna need to figure out ways to spring Diggs in the games where teams take him away. Hopefully the learnings from the 2nd half OL carousel can give them a solid footing when they hit August. I think the future is bright, but the KC debacle needs to be the last time we see such a sorry display - the Hopkins Hail Mary was bad enough, it's tough to believe they found a way to top that...

In terms of helping JA improve his mechanics, Daboll certainly wasn’t primary. In fact, the biggest improvements came after Dorsey arrived. In terms of understanding defenses, I’m sure Daboll was important, but experience is more important. 

 

[BillsVet]

This off-season is about the CEO (McD) and COO (Beane) looking in the mirror and ditching the play it safe mentality.  The last 2 off-seasons have been all about Josh's development and surrounding him.  

 

CEO and COO need to match Josh's improvement as it relates to identifying better offensive and defensive schemes.  Then, finding personnel to fit those schemes.  Buffalo doesn't make the leap without this happening this off-season.  

 

[billybrew1]

18 hours ago, NewEra said:

We’re as much a super bowl contender as any team in the league.  
 

We have the most electrifying man in football entertainment.  
 

What more can we ask for to begin the offseason.

 

i hope that:  

-we can solidify our OL and have a top 5 OL for the next 10+ seasons.  I don’t care how we do it, draft or FA.  Whatever gets it done.  

 

-we can add another electrifying WR.  Jameson Williams please. 
 

-we don’t pay Edmunds more than 13M a year (and even that’s too much).  If we pay him anything at all, I hope that we have flexibility to get out of the contract. After 1-2 years.  I’d be happy if we can get a draft pick or two for him and avoid his cap hit.  He’s good….just not MLB making 13M+ aav good.
 

-cb2:  If we invest highly (rd 1-3 or over 6M aav) in a CB, I hope that player has better than average speed for a corner.

 

-resign Harrison Phillips and draft another big body DT in rd 4-7.  

 

-resign Jerry.  We need a vet in the DE room and he can still play. Those of you that hope we go with 4-5 youngsters @ DE are likely going to be upset.

 

-add another solid TE.  Running more 2TE sets and becoming more multiple on O.  Knox may become too expensive to keep.  Having a possible replacement in the pipelines would be smart imo.  
 

-we can get over that loss and keep the locker room focused 

 

 

I'd love an impact OL, maybe Beane can draft one? Maybe Spencer Brown becomes one?

Having said that, we need an impact defensive lineman about ten times as much...

I think Jerry should retire. Mario Addison outplayed him by a long shot. I don't think we should pay either now though....

Draft a DE, sign Harrison if he can be signed relatively cheap. Go with Star, Phillips, Zimmer and Ed.

The Bills must get better at drafting and developing defensive talent. Go thru the defense, they get about a C+. Our defense was mostly drafted and drafted with high picks to boot. It's not an impressive defense by any means. Poyer and Hyde lead the D from their Safety positions, what does that tell you? We need a captain of the front seven.  It's got to come from our youth. Oliver probably ain't the one as he is not worth the mega-deal it would take to keep under his fifth-year option plus. 
I think it's time Beane, the pegulas, McD, Leslie and everybody involved have to sit-down and come up with a solid plan on how to build a Super Bowl worthy defense. And let me tell you....it's not going to be easy.... I think it is a mess withTremaineand Ed due contracts and our safeties getting old.

[billybrew1]

The Bills are stuck between a rock and hard place after drafting OK but not great on defense using a little more than half of our high picks. McD, Beane and Leslie should not be very proud of their work, imho....

[NewEra]

58 minutes ago, billybrew1 said:

I'd love an impact OL, maybe Beane can draft one? Maybe Spencer Brown becomes one?

Having said that, we need an impact defensive lineman about ten times as much...

I think Jerry should retire. Mario Addison outplayed him by a long shot. I don't think we should pay either now though....

Draft a DE, sign Harrison if he can be signed relatively cheap. Go with Star, Phillips, Zimmer and Ed.

The Bills must get better at drafting and developing defensive talent. Go thru the defense, they get about a C+. Our defense was mostly drafted and drafted with high picks to boot. It's not an impressive defense by any means. Poyer and Hyde lead the D from their Safety positions, what does that tell you? We need a captain of the front seven.  It's got to come from our youth. Oliver probably ain't the one as he is not worth the mega-deal it would take to keep under his fifth-year option plus. 
I think it's time Beane, the pegulas, McD, Leslie and everybody involved have to sit-down and come up with a solid plan on how to build a Super Bowl worthy defense. And let me tell you....it's not going to be easy.... I think it is a mess withTremaineand Ed due contracts and our safeties getting old.

Regarding the bolded, imo, there’s not much chance that McD will go into the season without a veteran presence at the DE position.  I think one will be and should be back.  Both addison and Hughes played at a contributing level.  They aren’t great, but they know how to play and they know how to lead.  If the idea is to run Rousseau, Basham, AJ and a rookie out there as out rotational DE, you plan to build a super bowl worthy D will likely fail.  Jmo.  Jerry and addison were mile better than AJ last year.  It even close.  As was Obada (who was terrible vs the run).  Agree to disagree.

 

The defense was good enough.  It’s tough when you lose your all pro corner.  Imo, we had a super bowl worthy D.  Worthy means good enough.  Mahomes played a helluva game and McD BLEW IT.  
 

Ed was pretty dominate the second half of the season.  If he continues to progress, he might worth the $.  I agree, edmunds isn’t worth the money he’s going to make.  I hope we can trade him and land a vocal versatile MLB that can lead, but I’m expecting him to stay.  
 

Your post suggests that we’re much further away from being a champion than we actually are.  Your post suggests that our D was super bowl worthy…..while being a top 5 D.  Our D was better than both the bengals and the rams d.  One of them will be super bowl worthy…..how are we not?  Because our coaches screwed up.  
 

Imo, becoming the 2022 super bowl champions should be the goal.  Keeping Josh protected while giving him more weapons should be priority #1 in order to achieve that.

[billybrew1]

Our Super Bowl chances are closely tied to our ability to draft and develop defense.

Look no farther than Harry, Ed, AJ Epenesa, Greg Rousseau, and Boogie Basham for answers to how good this defense will or will not be... We need them to take big steps this offseason. Maybe we can keep Efe Obada as the fourth Defensive end?

Our top eight would be:

 

Groot  - Harry - Ed - AJ

Efe  - Star - Zimmer - Boogie....

 

While it is definitely not bad, you have to wonder if it's good.  So much potential there.... Not much accomplished yet.

IDK? At least, I think, we could afford this. 
What do you think?

[gonzo1105]

Gotta get faster. Not just at the area were weak but faster even at Safety, LB, WR etc etc. 

[SCBills]

On Offense, I'm riding sky high on this team with these coaching hires.  

 

On Defense, remains to be seen... Really do not want to run it back with Frazier and this same cast of characters, albeit slimmed down a bit due to cap constraints. 

[corta765]

19 hours ago, BTB said:

The Bills took a step back this year, and have a much tougher schedule next year. 

 

Ahhhh what?

 

Jets 2x

Fins 2x

Bears

Lions 

Packers without Rodgers and possibly Adams while also being 45 mil over

Vikings

Steelers

Browns

 

If they go anything less then 7-3 in those games we have a problem. Additionally Titans are home also and even though they have been a bug a boo your aren't in there house. The road has a four pack of KC/LAR/BAL/CIN which are all tough games but the Bills have been very good on the road and this last year beat KC/NE/NOLA all on the road while barely losing to TB.

 

In general looking at the schedule now and rating difficulty is fools gold anyway as what we see now rarely is the case come the season. But if you were to ask me I think their schedule is set for 12 wins or better next year.

[BillsFanSD]

At this point -- before FA and before the draft -- the Bills are still one of the two best teams in the conference, and probably one of the two best teams in the league.  We'll be a somewhat popular SB pick in August.  Not worried about the overall state of the franchise.

[OldNMBillsFan]

I can’t wait until next season!!!! Josh Freking Allen is why!!!! Wait until the Josh Allen affect takes ahold. Quality players will come at discount for the chance to play alongside Josh Frekin Allen and compete for a Super Bowl, and the Bills will win it. Get your popcorn ready!!! The show is just starting.

 

GO BILLS!!!!!

[UKBillFan]

Much happier thanks to the Dorsey and (hopefully) Brady deals. Is it September yet?

[Billz4ever]

STILL need to address the Run D.  I don't know how many times this season, when we least needed it, we couldn't stop the run when we needed to.  Our run D has seemed to be the Achilles heel of our D for so long I can't even remember when it was actually good.  Probably have to go back to when we had Sam Adams and Ted Washington plugging up everything between the tackles. Pass rush also seemed to be lacking.  Some games it seemed we had no pass rush to speak off.  

 

We should still be solid in the secondary when Tre comes back.

 

Linebackers were just OK this year, IMO.  Edmunds hasn't impressed me.  I actually think we are better vs the run when Klein was in there. 

 

Haack is horrible.  We need a new punter.  Even when he's not shanking a kick, it seems like his ability to get it inside the 20 is lacking.  Always seems to kick it in the endzone.  His kicking motion is also so slow, I can't believe he didn't have more kicks blocked.

 

I think we're fine on special teams and Bass is pretty dependable.

 

Receivers: If Gabe can keep getting better and play like he did the end of the season, watch out.  Teams will have a tough time deciding who to double cover. Combine that with Knox having a decent year, our receivers/TEs are some of the best in football.

 

O-line surprised me this season.  Allen took minimal sacks, even though some of that can be credited to his legs.

 

I do wish we could get more of a running game out of our backs.  Singletary seemed to turn it up a notch at the end, but having the ability to establish a legitimate running game from someone not named Josh Allen would be awesome.

 

Coaching: I'm still salty from the playoff game.  Our coaching staff has amazing moments and then some of the worst play calling moments at some of the worst possible times on both sides of the ball.

 

Frazier: I was still hoping someone would pick him up for a coaching job and take him off our hands.  #1 D blah, blah blah....a lot of that came down to teams we were playing and weather also was a factor a few games.  I'm just not a fan of his playstyle.  I think it's too conservative and against certain teams, the D just gets picked apart.  The playoff game was one example and the Tennessee game was another.  Being #1 on paper doesn't mean your D strikes fear in the other team's offense like a #1 defense should.  

 

Daboll: Good luck in NY, you're gonna need it.  Got frustrated with his playcalling numerous times this season because it didn't feel like he was playing to the strengths of the offense.  Playoff game for example...how long did it take him to figure out Mathieu was out of the game before we started letting Josh put serious pressure on their secondary?  When he was dialed in, he was the best in the business.  This season, he seemed to either not be paying attention to what the D was giving him or he was simply trying too hard.

 

McD: I like him.  Again, questionable play calls at times, but I put those on the coordinators calling the plays.  The players like him and he seems to be able to get a lot out of them.  

 

Wildcard: Ken Dorsey.  If he can keep Josh rolling along and keep a good thing going I think he can pick right up where Daboll left off and possibly be even better as long as he doesn't try to do too much too quick.  Stay with what worked, dump the trash that didn't.

 

Front office: Can't really complain there.  We aren't in salary cap hell with a bunch of dead weight and I like most of the draft calls.

 

If we tighten up the D, which seems to be an every year thing, get a legitimate run game going outside of #17, and keep these guys hungry, this team is the best in the AFC, if not the league. 

 

 

Edited February 3, 2022 by Billz4ever

[Nextmanup]

13 hours ago, Greg S said:

McDermott needs to do a better job with game management.

I totally agree, but this is easier said than done.

 

He's been doing this for a while already; how is he supposed to get smarter in a single off-season?

Count on him bungling things into the future.

 

 

[BuffaloBillsGospel]

We have Josh Allen, Devin Singletary, Stefon Diggs, Gabriel Davis, Dawson Knox, Dion Dawkins, Ryan Bates and Mitch Morse, Tre White, Michah Hyde, Jordan Poyer, Matt Milano, Ed Oliver, Groot, Tyler Bass

 

I think were going to be contenders for the SB for a long time imo.

[Big Turk]

Great.

[YoloinOhio]

 

[JMF2006]

Spiraling upward  out of control....fire everyone...playoffs in only 4 of 5 years?

 

#1 D really...... I know Wrex could make it better  

 

We need more turmoil and controversy....things just aren't the same  

 

J/K

 

Carry on McBeane we Billieve

[Greg S]

1 minute ago, JMF2006 said:

Spiraling upward  out of control....fire everyone...playoffs in only 4 of 5 years?

 

#1 D really...... I know Wrex could make it better  

 

We need more turmoil and controversy....things just aren't the same  

 

J/K

 

Carry on McBeane we Billieve

 

Only when playing bad teams with bad quarterbacks.

[JMF2006]

Just now, Greg S said:

 

Only when playing bad teams with bad quarterbacks.

 

The Bills went toe to toe with all the heavy hitters Titans KC TB NE only one blow out and that team didn't even make the playoffs .....Indy

[Greg S]

Just now, JMF2006 said:

 

The Bills went toe to toe with all the heavy hitters Titans KC TB NE only one blow out and that team didn't even make the playoffs .....Indy

 

That is because of the offense. The defense got killed in those games. To their credit they played fairly well in the 2nd half against TB but otherwise they got destroyed.

[JMF2006]

2 minutes ago, Greg S said:

 

That is because of the offense. The defense got killed in those games. To their credit they played fairly well in the 2nd half against TB but otherwise they got destroyed.

 

They played as well as the other teams D they were all one score games except KC1 week 5 where we blew them out and dominated

[Greg S]

3 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

But their defense struggled in all those games… outside of NE and rookie Mac Jones. 

 

Good point. I forgot to give them credit against NE in the 2nd game and playoff game. But overall the defense wasn't good against good teams.

[Nihilarian]

Really good.

 

However, I'd feel better with the Bills moving on from their current DC. Perhaps it might not be the best move at the moment though. 

 

A lot of Bills fans are harping about that kickoff and the 13 seconds that followed. It's the Buffalo defense with the 13 seconds and not covering the two Chiefs only real threats in the passing game...and both caught passes. 

 

 

[Greg S]

2 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

Really good.

 

However, I'd feel better with the Bills moving on from their current DC. Perhaps it might not be the best move at the moment though. 

 

A lot of Bills fans are harping about that kickoff and the 13 seconds that followed. It's the Buffalo defense with the 13 seconds and not covering the two Chiefs only real threats in the passing game...and both caught passes. 

 

 

 

It's not just the 13 seconds. Its the Titans, Colts, Bucs, Chiefs. When they faced a good QB with a good offense they failed for the most part. It's a combination of coaching, scheme, players but they need to fix the D going into the 2022 season. 

[stuvian]

We are one of the league's elite teams in every aspect. Any changes will be minor tweaks.

 

It appears that Beane has built the team for long term competitiveness as opposed a one shot, win now mentality.

 

Our draft reflects this approach. We took 2 DLs instead of picking up the likes of Geno Atkins and Carlos Dunlap. We registered 42 sacks on D this year or just under 2.5 per game. Not stellar but decent. 

 

Questions for 2022:

 

What can be learned from the Bengals ascent? What second half adjustments did they make to snuff out the Chiefs offense?

 

How many near misses will the Pegulas be willing to sit through before saying "Go All In"? 

 

What if Rousseau and Basham fail to pan out as pass rushers? 

 

 

 

[FilthyBeast]

As long as JA17 doesn't get hurt or has a major regression I think this team should be in the playoff mix for the foreseeable future.

 

However I would caution the fans that have a more rosy outlook on the near and long term future for several reasons:

 

1) It's still very possible that McDermott is not the long term answer here and blowing a road PO game is only going to add fuel to those flames all offseason and into the 2022 season. I think anything short of a SB appearance next year and there's a very chance he could be replaced.

2) The AFC is loaded, Mahomes already has 2 SB and a championship and Burrow at worse just got to a SB in his 2nd NFL season after missing half his rookie year to a serious injury. Plenty of other good young talent in the conference as well including Mac Jones, Herbert, Jackson, etc.

3) I still don't see this team taking the next step until wholesale changes are made on the defensive side of the ball and as of right now it appears it's going to be status quo in terms of coaching/scheme which means we'll likely just be relying on more draft picks to improve unless Beane swings a big time trade for a pass rusher.

[njbuff]

The Bills need to add a veteran premier pass rusher via trade or FA, re-sign a few key guys and draft some speedy playmakers for the mega-franchise QB early in the draft. 
 

Then they are good to go, meaning, in the infamous words of Jake Taylor…….

 

” Win the whole f-n thing”

[Nuncha]

On 2/1/2022 at 4:08 PM, Special K said:

Burrow seems to be a cocky S.O.B. judging from some of the things he has said to the media in recent weeks.

 

He seems like a prime candidate to believe his off season hype and regress next year.....if he wins the SB this year, it might make the odds of regression higher, IMO.

I thought the same thing about Tom Brady 21 years ago....and look how that turned out.

[LyndonvilleBill]

I feel much better at this point than I did last year. We got our butts handed to us last year, had a bunch of FA's and what seemed to be a bunch of holes. I really think if we had Tre White we would have beat the Chiefs. Or maybe a better couple of defensive play calls at the end of regulation. 

 

Could we use improvement,  sure. But, OL came together. Sign Bates and We are pretty good in my opinion. Dawkins, Bates, Morse, Williams and Brown. Backups of Feliciano (G/C), Doyle (swing T) Ford (G) and draft a couple late or FA's. Draft a RB 4-5th rnd, WR and TE 2-3rd. CB 1st rnd. Keep Addison or Hughes for 1 more year, re-sign Obada or see if we can add Shaq on a team friendly deal. Re- sign Phillips.Add depth 6 and 7th rnd. Oh, and sign a new punter. 😉

 

 

[billsfan714]

Feel very similar to the superbowl years.    Offense can hang with anybody, 90 percent of the time.   The D, just not aggressive enough.   Call it mid season lack of physicality, call it coaching philosophy, but as a unit in big games, I feel way less confident in that group than I do the offense.