Brian Flores suing NFL, NY Giants, Dolphins, Broncos.

[Doc]

18 minutes ago, ThurmanThomasEnglishMuffin said:

David Culley is also Lebanese

I remember when this came out and wondered what team this was. Could be Miami.

 

I can't believe that he was interested in the Dolphins.  They didn't have near the talent on offense he was looking for.

[TheFunPolice]

2 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

I can't believe that he was interested in the Dolphins.  They didn't have near the talent on offense he was looking for.

 

Definitely the 49ers. I would bet $$ on it. 

 

49ers were also in on Peyton Manning before he chose Denver and almost signed him, so Brady probably thought they would be interested but they weren't. That probably pisses him off as much as anything. 

 

Plus, YET AGAIN someone wants to go with Jimmy G over him?! 

Edited February 3, 2022 by TheFunPolice

[BuffaloBillyG]

24 minutes ago, ThurmanThomasEnglishMuffin said:

 

David Culley is also Lebanese

I remember when this came out and wondered what team this was. Could be Miami.

Little known fact. 

 

Rich Kotite was the 1st Head Coach with Lebanese decent. Other famous NFLers that are in part Lebenese: John Elway, Doug Flutie, Jeff George and Miami Dolphins founder Joe Robbie.

Edited February 3, 2022 by BuffaloBillyG

[TheFunPolice]

I still can't imagine how the mechanics of a coach "tanking" would work.

 

Play it out: coach says "ok I'll tank." But that's the HC.

 

So what does he do? He's got an entire staff of coaching making (comparatively) peanuts who are trying to advance their careers and get that HC job someday. Does he say to them "guys, we're all just going to mail it in and lose on purpose?"

 

So now the OC has the 32nd ranked offense.

the DC has the 32nd ranked defense.

Special teams coordinator has special teams that stink.

 

Plus the position coaches who don't make enough money that they can afford this to be their last stop.

 

So, now the position coaches (if they go along) are basically deciding that they are at their career ceilings, because NOBODY is going to look to hire them when they are on the worst team in the league and their units all stink.

 

So these coordinators and assistants, who could (and likely would) take the hit at the end of the year, because SOME changes would need to be made if they kept the HC, would agree to basically stink at their jobs, get fired, uproot their families yet again just a year or two later, but now have poor prospects of getting another job based on their performance. 

 

For what? So the team and coach that fired them could get a better draft pick and start winning while they're selling cars or working at a HS somewhere in Oklahoma teaching gym class and coaching the OL on the football team?

 

Then there's the players. 

 

Hey QB: we need you to stink and torpedo your career. Then we'll cut you once we draft your replacement and nobody else will pay you anything more than peanuts to play.

 

And it goes on and on.

 

Now, you could just put together a team of practice squad level players and let them play 100% knowing they'll lose anyway. 

 

In that case, lots of teams in lots of leagues have done it openly. But you can't speak the words, I guess I get that. 

 

Now, in the case of Hue Jackson... The guy is an egomaniac who speaks about himself in the 3rd person. He talked a ton about Cleveland having a winner in town, but now he wants us to believe that his laughable W/L record was actually on purpose? 

 

I'm not going to say it's impossible, because the Browns owner is a shady dude, but it just doesn't make sense for Hue (and the GM apparently) to sabotage his own career for a million extra bucks. 

 

NOW, if Hue Jackson is telling the truth, maybe Ross went to Flores and said "hey, let's do what the Browns did with Hue" and Flores told him NO WAY! are you nuts? And that was the end of it.

 

In that case, it's bad, but if we're being honest with ourselves how bad is it? 

 

The same fans who WANT their team to lose for that 1st overall pick to get a QB are really mad when the powers that be try to make that happen?

 

It's not really losing in a sense, because the point is to win big by losing now. The prize of the next Burrow, Allen, Mahomes sitting there vs drafting a tackle at #2 is franchise changing. 

 

So you're not really "trying to lose" so much as trying to WIN by doing that. 

 

 

 

Edited February 3, 2022 by TheFunPolice

[TableDestoyer69]

Brian Flores: "I was paid to lose"

 

Hue Jackson: "It really happens in the NFL! I was paid to coach the browns."

[papazoid]

the easiest way a coach could tank all on his own would be to switch QB's

 

he can just say we haven't been winning and  he's looking for a spark when he knows full well they have less of a chance winning with the backup.

 

i still say coaches and players will not tank....but anything is possible when all you have to do is compromise one individual....certainly not an entire staff

 

 

[TheFunPolice]

Again though, Flores wasn't actually paid to lose. He says he refused the offer. 

 

 

 

4 minutes ago, papazoid said:

the easiest way a coach could tank all on his own would be to switch QB's

 

he can just say we haven't been winning and  he's looking for a spark when he knows full well they have less of a chance winning with the backup.

 

i still say coaches and players will not tank....but anything is possible when all you have to do is compromise one individual....certainly not an entire staff

 

 

 

It is interesting that Flores employed co OC's and constantly messed with Tua by taking him out, putting Fitz in, taking Fitz out...

 

Those decisions were widely criticized as counterproductive at the time... Did he actually ACCEPT the offer and now wants to act like he didn't?

 

Because Hue Jackson is basically saying he went along and tanked, if I'm reading that right, making him just as guilty (if not more) because he then lied to his players and put their careers in harm's way for his own personal gain. Again, based on what he seems to be saying. 

Edited February 3, 2022 by TheFunPolice

[H2o]

I'm not saying there is zero credibility to what Flores is claiming, but I do feel that he's salty for numerous things that took place while he was coach in Miami. One of the biggest things I believe that burnt him up was wanting Herbert instead of Tua and being overridden by Ross. It was reported before the draft that Flores wanted Herbert over Tua, but Ross wanted Tua and the pick was made. That's gotta sting a little bit. I also believe that he was likely told to start Tua over Fitz, even when Fitz was playing well as the starter for them. Any time you have a meddling owner/GM that won't let you run your team the way you want then you know there is going to be some animosity. He probably felt like his rep was tarnished to the point that he didn't give a crap and said within himself he was going to stick it to them all. Here we are. 

[benderbender]

Assuming the Flores lawsuit is correct and the NFL is knowingly allowing racist hiring practices, wouldn't the easiest solution be to have the Saints for example offer him a job? Just how much credit are we giving the NFL? They're just smart enough to set up a sham system of diabolical racism, but too stupid to think one step ahead? Hubris is one thing, but avoiding a drawn out investigation and bad press is another. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Returntoglory said:

What if Flores is Lying? 🤔

 

Then the claim that he has witnesses and corroborating evidence won't hold up.

[stuvian]

The only way a coach could execute a tank and not lose the locker room is to say that certain second stringers are going to get an audition to close out he season

[Returntoglory]

6 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Then the claim that he has witnesses and corroborating evidence won't hold up.

I understand that. If found that he is lying then he should be banned from the NFL for life.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

5 minutes ago, Returntoglory said:

I understand that. If found that he is lying then he should be banned from the NFL for life.

 

So if it's found that he's telling the truth, what should happen?

 

9 minutes ago, stuvian said:

The only way a coach could execute a tank and not lose the locker room is to say that certain second stringers are going to get an audition to close out he season

 

I'm not sure about that.  When we complain about the refs, the point that is often made is that a few calls at key times can swing the game.

 

Suppose you have a team that is contending (so the locker room believes in you, they see that they're close) and you make substitutions or play calls that swing the game, at key points.

 

Then you can go back in the locker room and say "men, you fought hard, we almost had them, they just made one more play than us. We've got to do better, starts with me"

 

😬

[bigK14094]

Although they are a business (the NFL), they don't control the firing in each teams organizations.  So, the NFL doesn't have the leverage to force a hire.  And, any "forced" or incentivized hiring would/could bring other lawsuits.  The is going to be i nteresting to watch, I know for sure that the courts are not smart enough to figure it out.  And, its a long way to go to force a team sale......owners who want to sell are not frequent.  Boncs on the block now, and more than one for sale might depress the price.  Not looking for forced selling to happen any time soon or ever.

Just now, bigK14094 said:

Although they are a business (the NFL), they don't control the firing in each teams organizations.  So, the NFL doesn't have the leverage to force a hire.  And, any "forced" or incentivized hiring would/could bring other lawsuits.  The is going to be i nteresting to watch, I know for sure that the courts are not smart enough to figure it out.  And, its a long way to go to force a team sale......owners who want to sell are not frequent.  Boncs on the block now, and more than one for sale might depress the price.  Not looking for forced selling to happen any time soon or ever.

And, if there is a quota in management, perhaps there should be a quota in the player ranks.  Then the NFL can get reverse discrimination lawsuits.  (see Bakke vs the Univ of Calfornia)

[stuvian]

14 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

So if it's found that he's telling the truth, what should happen?

 

 

I'm not sure about that.  When we complain about the refs, the point that is often made is that a few calls at key times can swing the game.

 

Suppose you have a team that is contending (so the locker room believes in you, they see that they're close) and you make substitutions or play calls that swing the game, at key points.

 

Then you can go back in the locker room and say "men, you fought hard, we almost had them, they just made one more play than us. We've got to do better, starts with me"

 

😬

I don't think a contending team would dare tank. I think a sub .500 team with a chance to move up for a franchise QB would bother to try

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

1 hour ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Little known fact. 

 

Rich Kotite was the 1st Head Coach with Lebanese decent. Other famous NFLers that are in part Lebenese: John Elway, Doug Flutie, Jeff George and Miami Dolphins founder Joe Robbie.

You can't count 'Bolt Neck Elway'.  The Lebanese component was sewn in by Dr. Frankenstein.

Then again, someone else pointed out in the forums, Elway's a direct descendant of my friend Flicka. 🤔

[Cheektowaga Chad]

57 minutes ago, papazoid said:

the easiest way a coach could tank all on his own would be to switch QB's

 

he can just say we haven't been winning and  he's looking for a spark when he knows full well they have less of a chance winning with the backup.

 

i still say coaches and players will not tank....but anything is possible when all you have to do is compromise one individual....certainly not an entire staff

 

 

Switch qbs you say

 

Did flores take the money? Tua and fitz constant switcheroo???

[Hapless Bills Fan]

11 minutes ago, stuvian said:

I don't think a contending team would dare tank. I think a sub .500 team with a chance to move up for a franchise QB would bother to try

 

I meant contending within a game, not contending for playoffs.

 

Look at the Bills in 2017, when we were 9-7 and got into the playoffs.  Something like 5 or 6 of our wins were by 1 score. 

 

If we really believe that 2-3 timely calls by the refs can swing the outcome of a ball game, then it seems to me that 2-3 untimely play calls by the coach or poor substitutions could also swing the outcome of a ball game, but yet the team would still be close and competitive in those games and the coach could use that as motivation and a building block (theoretically).

 

I'm not saying it's happened, I'm just pointing out how (in theory) a coach could subtly tank and yet not lose the locker room.

 

[wjag]

There are lots of tentacles in this story.  Sham interviews, toothless Rooney rule,  fixing games and the Belichick angle...

 

The fact that Belichick new is fascinating.  Can you imagine the deposition?  He's going to frustrate the heck out of opposing counsel.

 

Wouldn't it be interesting to find out that BB new what he was doing and deliberately threw a grenade into this.....  At this juncture, nothing would surprise me..  The slow leak of information over the next weeks and months will be interesting to watch...

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Seems to be a pretty decent article deconstructing the various pieces of the lawsuit:

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/33201180/brian-flores-nfl-lawsuit-prove-systemic-racism-know-claims-sham-interviews-incentivizing-tanking-plus-next

49 minutes ago, wjag said:

The fact that Belichick new is fascinating.  Can you imagine the deposition?  He's going to frustrate the heck out of opposing counsel.

 

The question is, what did he know and from whom?

 

It's possible someone with hiring power on the Giants called Belichick and shared with him they'd made a decision.

 

It's also possible someone with hiring power called him and asked his opinion on Daboll, who worked for him in two stints totalling 10 years, and didn't outright tell him they'd made a decision, but led him to "read between the lines".

 

The difference matters

[Returntoglory]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

So if it's found that he's telling the truth, what should happen?

 

 

 

 

😬

If he's telling the truth then there should be hell to pay in regards to the 100k to throw a game. Loss of the franchise would be first on the list. 

The Rooney rule is a tricky one however. I personally think most if not all teams have there minds made up who they want to hire and it's just a hand-job to satisfy the rule. 

In this day and age of win at all cost ad the financial rewards that come with it in the NFL , I find it hard to believe that any team would not hire the best qualified person, much like a GM would go after the best player available at the draft or during free agency. If there is a Black coach out there that can lead a team to the SB, then I'm pretty sure that most if not all teams will pursue that person.

 

Then again, I'm sure there are still remnants of "The good 'ol boys club".

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 minutes ago, Returntoglory said:

If he's telling the truth then there should be hell to pay in regards to the 100k to throw a game. Loss of the franchise would be first on the list. 

 

So you think if Flores is "found to be lying" (which isn't really a legal thing, but let it pass), he should be banned from the NFL for life, but if he's telling the truth, he should just have to sell the team?

[Returntoglory]

10 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

So you think if Flores is "found to be lying" (which isn't really a legal thing, but let it pass), he should be banned from the NFL for life, but if he's telling the truth, he should just have to sell the team?

If Flores is lying then he should pay a steep price, much like Smollett. Inciting racial tension by making false claims is despicable. In the end though, if and I mean IF he is not telling the truth, he most likely will never get another coaching job in the NFL because the owners stick together on crap like this.

If Flores is telling the truth then he will undoubtedly profit by his legal action.

Stephen Ross should lose his franchise.

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

12 minutes ago, Returntoglory said:

If Flores is lying then he should pay a steep price, much like Smollett. Inciting racial tension by making false claims is despicable. In the end though, if and I mean IF he is not telling the truth, he most likely will never get another coaching job in the NFL because the owners stick together on crap like this.

If Flores is telling the truth then he will undoubtedly profit by his legal action.

Stephen Ross should lose his franchise.

 

 

I dunno, you seem much more concerned about potentially punishing Flores for filing a lawsuit, than about punishing wealthy franchies owner Ross for reportedly trying to bribe his coach to ACTUALLY THROW NFL FOOTBALL GAMES. 

 

Flores is going to face extensive negative consequences in the NFL whether his allegations are proven or not.  And he knows it.

 

Legally, though, you can't prove someone is lying about something like this.  The best you can do is say their allegations are not proven, or not supported by corroborating evidence.

[Returntoglory]

Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I dunno, you seem much more concerned about potentially punishing Flores for filing a lawsuit, than about punishing Ross for reportedly trying to bribe his coach to ACTUALLY THROW NFL FOOTBALL GAMES.

 

Flores is going to face extensive negative consequences in the NFL whether his allegations are proven or not.  And he knows it.

 

 

I'm not concerned about any of this counselor. I gave an opinion and l viewed the potential consequences for both parties involved.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

 

[RalphWilson'sNewWar]

This is sort of a side note.

 

But it is annoying me that in every story about Flores…they mention he finished the 2021 season winning 7 of final 8.

 

As a Buffalo SABRES fan…we all know the worthlessness of ‘Historic Runs to 8th Place’.

 

there were HIGH expectations in Miami for 2021.  Maybe not Division Winning, but expectations to be what the Patriots ended up doing with a ROOKIE QB.

 

And when you start off 1-7…sorry.  But anything you do after that … after the pressure has come off…I see as frivolous.

 

No more historic runs to 8th.

[Irv]

4 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

To tank a game it would be obvious. Like if a team needed to go 40 yards in lets say 13 seconds and the defense plays everyone back 15 yards allowing a catch and run. 

 

No one would get away with that.

 

Deep breaths.  Deep breaths.  Let it go.  Hummmmmmm.  Hummmmmmmm.  Serenity now.  Serenity now.    

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 minutes ago, RalphWilson'sNewWar said:

This is sort of a side note.

 

But it is annoying me that in every story about Flores…they mention he finished the 2021 season winning 7 of final 8.

 

As a Buffalo SABRES fan…we all know the worthlessness of ‘Historic Runs to 8th Place’.

 

there were HIGH expectations in Miami for 2021.  Maybe not Division Winning, but expectations to be what the Patriots ended up doing with a ROOKIE QB.

 

And when you start off 1-7…sorry.  But anything you do after that … after the pressure has come off…I see as frivolous.

 

No more historic runs to 8th.

 

I understand your point, but during that 1-7 run, the Dolphins had 3 games which they lost by 3 points - 28-31 in OT to the Raiders; 20-23 to the Jaguars; and 28-30 to the Falcons.

 

If Miami pulls off just 1 out of 3 of those, then they're 10-7, swap places with the Pats for #2 in the division, and bump the Stillers out of the playoffs.

So they came very close.

[Coach Tuesday]

How epic will it be if the Texans hire Flores?  There go his damages - he’d probably have to dismiss his case.  McNair would instantly go from league villain to hero.

[Malazan]

I think Flores has made some very serious claims on an issue that certainly exists in the NFL. 

 

However, I'm not sure how much his situation is the one that people who are concerned about this issue want. He is going to need a hell of a smoking gun here and I don't think he has it. The problem with tying together bombastic accusations such as "Owner offered to pay me to lose" is that if fails to produce real evidence of that then the rest of the claims are going to be cast in doubt. 

 

I am also surprised the lawyers allowed this.. he's made claims that are going to remove him from being protected against libel/slander/defamation against public figures (aka the reason you or I can say things about coaches/players/etc that we know aren't actually true about public figures). This suit feels like it was thrown together.

 

The things he said about the Denver interview seem like they should have been blunted to protect him ie instead of saying they looked hungover and had been out drinking.. you say, "They looked tired and unprepared." because then when they produce something like airline tickets that show they had flown in in the middle of the night because that was the only time available to meet with you.. well, now they have a pretty good basis for a suit of their own. Now if they can show that based other interviews and Flores own schedule that is true.. well, the whole case is affected and suffers. 

 

This is also why I don't think you'll see too many coaches joining into the suit and I'm surprised organizations working for change would choose this as a strategic case to get behind. If I was them, I would have pushed forward in other avenues.  If the ross allegations don't have some substantive proof behind them then many of the other valid claims by Flores or other coaches are going to received with more skepticism.

 

I think the strategy would have been separate suits against the Dolphins, NFL for being fired without cause on the Ross allegations for Flores personally. They should have had found another semi-high profile guy like Bieniemy to file and have Flores join that suit against Giants, Broncos, NFL, etc for the Racism allegations. 

[BigDingus]

Damn, I actually agree with Colin Cowherd (and Joy Taylor) for once after catching them on the radio today.

 

The allegations are a lot more serious than I really considered upon hearing them originally, and it seems very likely a lot of it is true.

 

One of the things I do find weird is what Colin said, and that's when a player is caught doing something majorly wrong people are pissed, but people tend to vehemently defend owners. Everything else aside, offering to pay your HC to tank games is INSANE no matter how you slice it!

 

If any team would do it, not surprised the crappy Dolphins organization would be responsible. What I find hilarious is the fact you then fire the guy after offering something that dirty to him... Did you think he wouldn't spill your corruption?! 🤣

[Malazan]

4 minutes ago, BigDingus said:

If any team would do it, not surprised the crappy Dolphins organization would be responsible. What I find hilarious is the fact you then fire the guy after offering something that dirty to him... Did you think he wouldn't spill your corruption?! 🤣

 

It's stupid, but no one ever said the owners were smart. I'd probably expect some nuance to it as like, "Look, we're losing and going to be bad. We're making some decisions with the future in mind by playing younger guys, acquiring draft picks, etc. I want you focused on the long term and to make those decisions easier and remove the financial incentive you have aside, I'll compensate you if we lose games". Maybe his contract had some performance escalator that Ross was offering for all games instead of just wins or something. 

 

Still dumb, but seems a more likely scenario to me. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

16 minutes ago, Malazan said:

I am also surprised the lawyers allowed this.. he's made claims that are going to remove him from being protected against libel/slander/defamation against public figures (aka the reason you or I can say things about coaches/players/etc that we know aren't actually true about public figures). This suit feels like it was thrown together.

 

The things he said about the Denver interview seem like they should have been blunted to protect him ie instead of saying they looked hungover and had been out drinking.. you say, "They looked tired and unprepared." because then when they produce something like airline tickets that show they had flown in in the middle of the night because that was the only time available to meet with you.. well, now they have a pretty good basis for a suit of their own. Now if they can show that based other interviews and Flores own schedule that is true.. well, the whole case is affected and suffers.

 

Interesting that you should say this.

 

John Elway has fired back and says just that.  He says he flew in in the middle of the night after completing an interview in Denver

https://www.audacy.com/wgr550/sports/john-elway-denies-he-was-hungover-for-brian-flores-interview

Quote

As for his appearance, if Elway looked “disheveled,” he says it was only because he flew in late that night after conducting an interview in Denver hours earlier. “For Brian to make an assumption about my appearance and state of mind early that morning is subjective, hurtful and just plain wrong,” Elway claimed. “If I appeared ‘disheveled,’ as he claimed, it was because we had flown in during the middle of the night—immediately following another interview in Denver—and were going on a few hours of sleep to meet the only window provided to us.”

He says he gave Flores the same consideration and opportunity as "every other candidate", took him "very seriously", and was "fully engaged"

 

A couple people upthread commented about the law firm which is representing Flores as not being the best.

 

Perhaps they have reason.

 

He's also going to show that Belichick's texts reveal insider knowledge that the hiring situation was a "done deal", and were not third-party hearsay.

[QLBillsFan]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

So you think if Flores is "found to be lying" (which isn't really a legal thing, but let it pass), he should be banned from the NFL for life, but if he's telling the truth, he should just have to sell the team?

 

1 hour ago, Returntoglory said:

If Flores is lying then he should pay a steep price, much like Smollett. Inciting racial tension by making false claims is despicable. In the end though, if and I mean IF he is not telling the truth, he most likely will never get another coaching job in the NFL because the owners stick together on crap like this.

If Flores is telling the truth then he will undoubtedly profit by his legal action.

Stephen Ross should lose his franchise.

 

Proof is required. We shall see. My guess is Ross stays owner. 

[QLBillsFan]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Interesting that you should say this.

 

John Elway has fired back and says just that.  He says he flew in in the middle of the night after completing an interview in Denver

https://www.audacy.com/wgr550/sports/john-elway-denies-he-was-hungover-for-brian-flores-interview

He says he gave Flores the same consideration and opportunity as "every other candidate", took him "very seriously", and was "fully engaged"

 

A couple people upthread commented about the law firm which is representing Flores as not being the best.

 

Perhaps they have reason.

 

He's also going to show that Belichick's texts reveal insider knowledge that the hiring situation was a "done deal", and were not third-party hearsay.

Nice job by Flores assuming Elway was hung over and not engaged. Pretty strong character attack on a guy by all accounts well respected.
 

How much of this is Flores a victim looking for all the reasons he’s been wronged. Calling out multiple people on ethics and racism. All the while setting a plan to align himself with Watson. Points to a level of narcissism. 

[QLBillsFan]

47 minutes ago, RalphWilson'sNewWar said:

This is sort of a side note.

 

But it is annoying me that in every story about Flores…they mention he finished the 2021 season winning 7 of final 8.

 

As a Buffalo SABRES fan…we all know the worthlessness of ‘Historic Runs to 8th Place’.

 

there were HIGH expectations in Miami for 2021.  Maybe not Division Winning, but expectations to be what the Patriots ended up doing with a ROOKIE QB.

 

And when you start off 1-7…sorry.  But anything you do after that … after the pressure has come off…I see as frivolous.

 

No more historic runs to 8th.

But he’s black and unlike Nagy he deserves special treatment. Judge him by performance in 3 years. Did some good things others not so good. 24-25 and unable to work with others. 
By the way I think gaining maturity and experience would allow him to do better next time. At the ripe old age of 43. 

[Malazan]

3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Interesting that you should say this.

 

John Elway has fired back and says just that.  He says he flew in in the middle of the night after completing an interview in Denver

https://www.audacy.com/wgr550/sports/john-elway-denies-he-was-hungover-for-brian-flores-interview

He says he gave Flores the same consideration and opportunity as "every other candidate", took him "very seriously", and was "fully engaged"

 

A couple people upthread commented about the law firm which is representing Flores as not being the best.

 

Perhaps they have reason.

 

He's also going to show that Belichick's texts reveal insider knowledge that the hiring situation was a "done deal", and were not third-party hearsay.

 

I am not a savant. I saw the Elway thing which is why I was so specific. If they have stuff like airline tickets, hotel checkins, etc then they can outright prove Flores is wrong. I think it's a bad strategy not to phrase it differently to be more generic. You can argue later that these things actually show they weren't serious, but now you're locked into "they were hungover". 

 

I don't think the Belichick thing helps him as the Giants had already satisfied the Rooney rule before his interview so his argument ends up being that they chose Daboll over Flores because he's white and I highly doubt there's any evidence where they say that so it's going to be hard to prove. 

 

I really don't understand the legal strategy here. This suit should have taken months to prepare to check on things like, "Were the Denver guys really drinking?" and "The Giants had satisfied the rooney rule so his interview wasn't a sham interview for that purpose". I don't know if these things kill his suit especially if there's solid evidence, but history shows that the 'proof' tends to be a little more fluid in these type of things than hard documents or something. It just doesn't feel thoroughly prepped and researched. 

 

We *know* a lot of these things are true, but the racism probably isn't blatant like you have some white klan guys sitting around going out of their way to not pick minority coaches. It's more subtle and a suit that feels like it is kinda slapped together haphazardly out of anger probably doesn't help anyone. 

 

 

[stevewin]

20 minutes ago, QLBillsFan said:

Nice job by Flores assuming Elway was hung over and not engaged. Pretty strong character attack on a guy by all accounts well respected.

Every time I read the Denver "drinking heavily the night before" thing, every courtroom scene ever on TV comes to mind

 

"Objection Your Honor!  Speculation!"  

"Sustained"

Edited February 3, 2022 by stevewin

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 minutes ago, Malazan said:

I am not a savant. I saw the Elway thing which is why I was so specific. If they have stuff like airline tickets, hotel checkins, etc then they can outright prove Flores is wrong. I think it's a bad strategy not to phrase it differently to be more generic. You can argue later that these things actually show they weren't serious, but now you're locked into "they were hungover". 

 

The little sarcastic voice inside my head said "But what if Elway shows up drunk or hungover to EVERY interview?" when I first read Flores suit.  Why not stick to things they can verify like "showed up 90 minutes late" or generic things that are hard to argue like "appeared disinterested" - instead of stuff that Elway can fire back at with "false and defamatory"?

 

2 minutes ago, Malazan said:

I don't think the Belichick thing helps him as the Giants had already satisfied the Rooney rule before his interview so his argument ends up being that they chose Daboll over Flores because he's white and I highly doubt there's any evidence where they say that so it's going to be hard to prove. 

 

I actually don't think that's true. 

The Rooney Rule requires that at least 2 external minority candidates be interviewed, and at least one external minority candidate be interviewed in-person.

This is a list with dates.  I italicized the guys who qualify and added the date of Daboll's interview.  GM Brian Schoen was hired on 1/21.   Frazier and Daboll both had video call interviews that same day.  I believe some of the other candidates had previously had video interviews, because they were under consideration prior to hiring Schoen as the GM.

 

New York Giants

Lou Anarumo, defensive coordinator (Bengals): Interviewed 1/23

Brian Daboll, offensive coordinator (Bills): Hired (interviewed on 1/25)

Brian Flores, former head coach (Dolphins): Interviewed 1/27

Leslie Frazier, defensive coordinator (Bills): Conducted second interview 1/28

Patrick Graham, defensive coordinator (Giants): Interviewed 1/26

Dan Quinn, defensive coordinator (Cowboys): Interviewed 1/24; remaining in Dallas

 

Supposedly, Belichick sent his texts on Monday the 24th.  The Giants look to have had a full panel of 1 per day interviews set up all week, including with their own internal candidate Patrick Graham (who is said to have really impressed the Vikings).  So the contention would be that all of those interviews were shams, including Daboll's (because he already had the job as of Monday), Grahams, Flores, and Frazier.

 

My guess would be that someone with the Giants (Mara?) called Belichick to chat about Daboll (probably called earlier about Flores) and Pegula to chat about Frazier and Daboll, and Belichick "read between the lines" that Daboll was likely to be the choice, and texted "Wrong Brian"

 

But having a lead candidate, and actually having made a firm organizational hiring decision, are two different things

 

2 minutes ago, Malazan said:

We *know* a lot of these things are true, but the racism probably isn't blatant like you have some white klan guys sitting around going out of their way to not pick minority coaches. It's more subtle and a suit that feels like it is kinda slapped together haphazardly out of anger probably doesn't help anyone.

 

Yes.  That is how it reads to me too - like "I'm Mad As Hell and I'm Not Going to Take It Anymore" day at the lawfirm