New stadium will have PSLs for season ticket holders

[BillnutinHouston]

19 minutes ago, ticketssince61 said:

Did any season tix holders receive a survey?

 

 

Yup, 2-3 years ago.

[TheFunPolice]

I'd be aggressive with the pricing on PSL's. Strike while the iron is hot. Make the experience world-class and field a winning team and people will come. 

 

 

[Gugny]

1 minute ago, TheFunPolice said:

I'd be aggressive with the pricing on PSL's. Strike while the iron is hot. Make the experience world-class and field a winning team and rich people will come. 

 

 

 

Added a word.

[K-9]

1 minute ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

How so? You are charging the stadium user part of the cost of building a new stadium. 

 

Ticket revenue is shared with the visiting team. PSL's are not.

That is not an insignificant factor moving forward. Teams like the Bills, with much less stadium generated unshared revenue,  are at a competitive disadvantage because a much higher percentage of their revenues go to their operating costs than other teams’ unshared revenues go towards theirs. PSLs were always going to be an inevitable reality sooner or later.

[BillsPride12]

I understand that it's 2021 and where the league is as a business but for me personally I have no interest in paying more money for a much more watered down experience.  I have already known before now that once the new stadium is here I am stepping down as a season ticket holder.  No regrets on my end though, I will walk away with a lifetime of memories from all the years at the Ralph or Rich(only two stadium names that really count) and still attend games at the new place occasionally. 

[Rockpile233]

I’ll buy the PSLs, it is what it is. That’s the league. 

[thenorthremembers]

Most companies have service fees now, its not a surprising move.   Not sure what incentives you get with season tickets, but maybe those will increase as well.

[TheFunPolice]

1 minute ago, Gugny said:

 

Added a word.

 

I agree that in a perfect world they wouldn't exist. 

 

Also, if I was Jeff Bezos I would have purchased the Bills and built a world-class stadium myself and still had $100 billion. 

 

But in the NFL you either pay the price or the product goes away. We have to decide whether we are willing to pay the price as a fanbase and community. 

 

 

[RobbRiddick]

You'll also have to pay $5 every time you have to take a leak.

[K-9]

1 minute ago, Gugny said:

 

Added a word.

This also isn’t an insignificant factor as well. Over the last generation, the middle class has slowly been priced out of attending sporting events on an increasing basis. 

[thenorthremembers]

2 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

Added a word.

Do you truly believe people living in true poverty or lower middle class people are the ones buying the season tickets to start with?

[May Day 10]

TBH, Im cool with a PSL at that price point (im in cheap seats).  

[Gugny]

1 minute ago, thenorthremembers said:

Do you truly believe people living in true poverty or lower middle class people are the ones buying the season tickets to start with?

 

No.  I don't.  But what about middle class and upper middle class people (aka - the ones you left out of your question)?  Many of THOSE people are the ones buying season tickets.

[Gordio]

It is laughable if anybody thinks they are going to be able to resell these PSLs to recoup their money in the future.  I think it was Baltimore where they stated this also, but when it was time to resell the PSLs they were worthless.(granted their PSLs cost a lot more money).  It might of been the Jets but I thought it was Baltimore. 

 

It is what it is and it is the price of doing business in the NFL.  It is nothing but pure greed but welcome to the NFL.  If we don't like it there will be 5 other cities ready to pounce to steal the Bills.  I hate but it is certainly not unique to buffalo.  Even the $40 - $50 parking now, am I the only one that thinks that is steep, especially for a place like OP where we are not land locked and there is plenty of parking for everybody.  Pre Covid I thought the price was $25-$30, to jump it that much in a short time is a bit greedy if you ask me. 

[TheFunPolice]

An additional $30 per ticket would move the Bills from #32 to #16-17, right at the NFL average of $104 per game. 

 

I think the market could bear it. You're telling me that if tickets were $104 instead of $74 on average our crazy, passionate fanbase would stay home?

 

I don't buy it. One thing the pandemic proved is that people will pay the price to get the things they want. 

[atlbillsfan1975]

1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said:

Is anyone surprised by this?

 

At least it's only a one-time charge and transferable.

Seriously, this is a huge concession by the Pegulas. 

[K-9]

1 minute ago, thenorthremembers said:

Do you truly believe people living in true poverty or lower middle class people are the ones buying the season tickets to start with?

People in true poverty and lower middle class people have never been large consumers of the live attendance product. But middle class consumers, especially those with families, have become increasingly less able to attend. 

[Bangarang]

Not surprising. I prefer watching the games at home anyway.

[atlbillsfan1975]

8 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

Added a word.

People who value the Bills will find a way to afford it and/or buy tickets on the secondary market. Turning this into a class thing will send this thread into a spiral. 

[QCity]

33 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

it’s not solely Pegula’s it’s the league. 

 

This.

[wagon127]

Yeah, they charge the PSL the first year, our season tickets only double the first year, but then they aggressively raise the prices over the following years, and you then can't afford them anymore, and you just wasted the money.

[TheFunPolice]

An open air stadium with covered seating, if done right and with lots of bells and whistles to make it not only cool for fans to be there but with some things unique to Buffalo would be incredible. 

 

Nobody wants to pay more, we all agree on that. However, the big-time league involves big-time prices. 

 

Our QB just signed a quarter of a billion dollar contract. 

Edited September 24, 2021 by TheFunPolice

[Draconator]

This is just my viewpoint. No links or such. 

 

When I lived in California working as a landscaper with my ex, one of our clients was a very highly respected CPA. 

 

Before Eddie DeBartolo bought the team, the team was owned by Victor Morabito. In 1963 at age 45, he died suddenly of a heart attack. His wife Jane took control of the team until 1977. Our client was the head CPA of the 49ers during Jane Morabito's ownership. Jane went to Andy (Name not changed, that was his name) to ask how they could generate more revenue for the team. The first thing he suggested was to make suite owners pay for game tickets for the seats in the suites. He was met with resistance obviously, but the suite owners agreed, and this quickly spread throughout the league. So in a way, that could have been the pre-curser for PSLs. If suite owners had to pay for seats to view the games in the suites they rented from the team, then season ticket holders should pay for the right to purchase their seats. 

Edited September 24, 2021 by Draconator

[Gugny]

Just now, atlbillsfan1975 said:

People who value the Bills will find a way to afford it and/or buy tickets on the secondary market. Turning this into a class thing will send this thread into a spiral. 

 

It shouldn't throw this thread into a spiral.  It's a fact.  As @K-9 mentioned above - "Over the last generation, the middle class has slowly been priced out of attending sporting events on an increasing basis." 

[Rockpile233]

I have had seasons since 2008. I believe my first seasons were something like $350… for the season. Today I sit corner of the lower bowl for under $900/season ticket.

 

I’ve always felt fortunate at our ability to get NFL football at a reasonable price. With the price points being floated we still will even with PSLs.

[K-9]

2 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

It shouldn't throw this thread into a spiral.  It's a fact.  As @K-9 mentioned above - "Over the last generation, the middle class has slowly been priced out of attending sporting events on an increasing basis." 

Hey, Gugny! There’s a big party down in steerage later on! See ya there!

[wppete]

36 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Good news! , you only need to pay me a lot of money once to have the right to pay me a lot more money on a recurring basis! 

it’s not solely Pegula’s it’s the league. 

I realize that. Im referring to the way they do business. Not only with the Bills and the Sabres but other business. Not a fan at all. 

[Arkady Renko]

Better than more tax dollars from those who don't care about the Bills or the stadium.   

[thenorthremembers]

15 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

No.  I don't.  But what about middle class and upper middle class people (aka - the ones you left out of your question)?  Many of THOSE people are the ones buying season tickets.

I'm sorry but I refuse to believe that someone in the middle class 53,000-106,827 that is willing to spend close to a grand on season tickets is going to be that severely hurt by another grand.   Upper Middle Class 106,000-373,894 shouldnt be hurt by it at all.  Now thats variable by situation.  I am upper middle class by definition, but because of student loans I'll never have season tickets, PSL or no PSL.

 

Lets be real, rich or not, you either have that sort of spending money or you dont.     The real issue here is people get pissy about giving another grand to a billionaire.    Meanwhile some of those same people are spending that much money or more on a lot more inane things than football tickets.

Edited September 24, 2021 by thenorthremembers

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 minute ago, wppete said:

I realize that. Im referring to the way they do business. Not only with the Bills and the Sabres but other business. Not a fan at all. 

I see.  I don’t know anything about the Sabres dumpster fire any more. 
 

I’m not sure Pegulas want this as much as the nfl is pushing them that they need to do this. But I’m speculating. 
 

I can’t fault how a billionaire runs his sports teams. I’ve only ever coached a rec league soccer teams. 

[Gugny]

3 minutes ago, Buffalo619 said:

Great News!! Price out the riff raft. Sunday games should be a family event, not a obnoxious drunken college party. 
 

Next, limit alcohol consumption, like the airlines are currently doing. 

 

Yes, because only poor people drink and get unruly.  Brilliant. 

[wjag]

I've dubbed them Personal Sucker Licenses.  

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Why? It's very likely that PSL's can be spread over a few seasons. So the impact will be blunted. It will be an extra bump of $10-20 per ticket. Personally I've been expecting this. But they better make this stadium worth it.

100% they do this.  My friends a broker and his rams tickets financed the 10k license over 6 years. 

[BillsShredder83]

I get the initial knee jerk reaction but these PSLs are practically a mini stock in the team. Bills tix are always in high demand. Inflation through the roof. 5-10years from now, with inflation and the josh allen effect on tickets, and resell on these things could be HIGH.

 

You buy one now for $1k, and in 10yeard they're now $3-5k, you can undercut the team a little and pocket a nice little profit, or leave it in your will to your kids.

 

I'm not saying PSLs are great I'm so thrilled. I'm saying there are def some PROs that go along with having them!

 

Think anyone in GB wanting tix would mind paying for PSLs when they don't have one??? It's hard to get even the RIGHT to buy a psl. What a cool thing to be able to leave in your will to your son or daughter after you pass I mean seriously!!! 

 

The sentimental value of gramps leaving you his PSLs in a will would be one of the most sentimental thing you could get in GB! Is GBs fan base thaaaat much better than ours? No! Absolutely not! So within a few years these will be as big a deal here as they are at Lambeau.

 

Just passing a positive spin. Flame away 😈🔥

[ohboychoboy]

I have 3 season tix in Section 134, 40 yard line, 9 rows behind the Bills bench.  I've been going to the games in those seats since I was 14 years old, and I'm now 62.  Those seats currently cost me just over $4000 total for the three of them.  I'm thinking that the new stadium and the PSL's will most likely be my time to bow out. 

If I had to guess, I'd put the price of my PSL around $5000 per, and while I can afford the $15,000 for the license and the approx $5K-$6K for the tickets each year, I'm just not into it like I was back in my 20s, 30s, and 40s.   I rarely go to the cold weather games anymore and even a lackluster opponent like Houston next week doesn't get the juices flowing.  So I'll probably save the PSL money, buy a 90-inch TV and a $5000 surround sound system and enjoy the games from the comfort of my La-Z-Boy. 

[TXBILLSFAN]

It is important to understand the two key factors in the economic viability of an NFL team in Buffalo

1- The salary cap, which, for most teams to be competitive, they need to spend close to it, is set based on approximately 50% of the NFL Revenues

2- The revenues that are shared do not include ALL the Revenues that are used to set the salary cap.

 

So, as the total revenues increase, the cap goes up for all teams.  Simple example, let's say Cowboys get $640M for local sponsorship for AT&T stadium.  Cowboys get $640M.  Players get $320M of that in the form of a higher cap, so, each team's cap goes up by $10M (32 x $10).  So, Buffalo needs to spend $10M more to stay close to cap and be competitive.  Meanwhile, Jerry spends $10 more but gets to pocket $630M ($640M - $10M)

 

Ralph warned of the impact of non-shared revenue on small market teams and there are some formula offsets that redirect additional money to smaller teams like Buffalo, but, nowhere close to make the economics equal.

 

To stay competitive and economically viable, Buffalo has to continue to increase local revenues via higher ticket prices, PSL's, suite sales and sponsorships

 

 

 

 

 

[WotAGuy]

5 minutes ago, ohboychoboy said:

I have 3 season tix in Section 134, 40 yard line, 9 rows behind the Bills bench.  I've been going to the games in those seats since I was 14 years old, and I'm now 62.  Those seats currently cost me just over $4000 total for the three of them.  I'm thinking that the new stadium and the PSL's will most likely be my time to bow out. 

If I had to guess, I'd put the price of my PSL around $5000 per, and while I can afford the $15,000 for the license and the approx $5K-$6K for the tickets each year, I'm just not into it like I was back in my 20s, 30s, and 40s.   I rarely go to the cold weather games anymore and even a lackluster opponent like Houston next week doesn't get the juices flowing.  So I'll probably save the PSL money, buy a 90-inch TV and a $5000 surround sound system and enjoy the games from the comfort of my La-Z-Boy. 

What’s your address?  I’ll be there!

[BillsShredder83]

41 minutes ago, Gordio said:

It is laughable if anybody thinks they are going to be able to resell these PSLs to recoup their money in the future.  I think it was Baltimore where they stated this also, but when it was time to resell the PSLs they were worthless.(granted their PSLs cost a lot more money).  It might of been the Jets but I thought it was Baltimore. 

 

It is what it is and it is the price of doing business in the NFL.  It is nothing but pure greed but welcome to the NFL.  If we don't like it there will be 5 other cities ready to pounce to steal the Bills.  I hate but it is certainly not unique to buffalo.  Even the $40 - $50 parking now, am I the only one that thinks that is steep, especially for a place like OP where we are not land locked and there is plenty of parking for everybody.  Pre Covid I thought the price was $25-$30, to jump it that much in a short time is a bit greedy if you ask me. 

You remember what the problem with re selling them was? If this was a drought and not in buffalo I could see it. But the stadium was packed the whole drought and the franchise looks competent going forward. I think they'll be in high demand within 5 years. They'll be discounted on resell versus buying from team in a few years

[wjag]

12 minutes ago, BillsShredder83 said:

I get the initial knee jerk reaction but these PSLs are practically a mini stock in the team. Bills tix are always in high demand. Inflation through the roof. 5-10years from now, with inflation and the josh allen effect on tickets, and resell on these things could be HIGH.

 

You buy one now for $1k, and in 10yeard they're now $3-5k, you can undercut the team a little and pocket a nice little profit, or leave it in your will to your kids.

 

I'm not saying PSLs are great I'm so thrilled. I'm saying there are def some PROs that go along with having them!

 

Think anyone in GB wanting tix would mind paying for PSLs when they don't have one??? It's hard to get even the RIGHT to buy a psl. What a cool thing to be able to leave in your will to your son or daughter after you pass I mean seriously!!! 

 

The sentimental value of gramps leaving you his PSLs in a will would be one of the most sentimental thing you could get in GB! Is GBs fan base thaaaat much better than ours? No! Absolutely not! So within a few years these will be as big a deal here as they are at Lambeau.

 

Just passing a positive spin. Flame away 😈🔥

 

So that was the theory pitched when the expansion Ravens came to town.  Buy the PSLs, it's an investment.  Here is the fine print...  If you fail to renew your seasons, you lose the PSL (hence why I dubbed it the personal sucker license).  The team could sell it to the next person all over again.  My buddy bought the PSL back in the day.  He did sell it for a profit, but after holding it for 10+ years, he made about 1000 on four seats.. 

 

[ColoradoBills]

So what's the thought that PSLs cause some fans to pass on attending games makes a 60K stadium seem more reasonable?