EDIT: Total cost to taxpayers? Bills select sports firm to represent ownership in building new open air stadium in OP, targeted for 2025

[Doc]

No surprise.  Not sure how/why anyone believed that the Pegulas were expecting the public to pay entirely for the stadium. 

[mjd1001]

16 hours ago, Doc said:

 

Based on this.  Take it up with the poster:

 

 

I'm not here to 'take things up' with anyone and start heated discussions/arguments.  My point is simply that very few stadiums generate that kind of money for the community, even in larger areas than Buffalo. There are countless articles written years after new stadiums have been build that look at those revenue 'projections' and study after study show they fall well short of giving the economic impact to the community that they were promised.

[BuffaloBills1998]

https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/amphtml/news/bills-owners-committed-sharing-costs-142941386.html An executive from PSE came out and confirmed that the Pegulas never expected the taxpayers to front the cost. 

[BillMafia716ix]

2 hours ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/amphtml/news/bills-owners-committed-sharing-costs-142941386.html An executive from PSE came out and confirmed that the Pegulas never expected the taxpayers to front the cost. 

I expect a brand new Pegula palace retractable roof stadium that will never close in OP by 2026 

[UConn James]

18 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

I feel that a downtown stadium has more support than a dome ...

 

Everybody who lives here knows a downtown stadium is probably out of the question 

 

And the dome is absolutely in the minority..  I think there's a better chance of a downtown stadium than a dome 

 

A dome in Buffalo is not happening... Not in a city and a fan base that embraces weather... Pittsburgh, New England,  don't have domes, neither does Green Bay 

 

And buffalo embraces the weather as much of more than all of them

My thing is that this stadium has to be built for the next 50+ years, and from everything we’re seeing and what’s predicted by those who are experts, climate patterns are changing and weather is getting more at the extremes.

 

I’m in favor of a retractable roof so the place can be used year-round. As the NFL season gets games added, they’re gonna be playing into mid-January in regular season and into February for playoffs. If, as reported, they’re going to have a partial covering over seating (something akin to the old Dallas stadium) then why not do a retractable for the 10% of roof that’s left?

[Buffalo716]

31 minutes ago, UConn James said:

My thing is that this stadium has to be built for the next 50+ years, and from everything we’re seeing and what’s predicted by those who are experts, climate patterns are changing and weather is getting more at the extremes.

 

I’m in favor of a retractable roof so the place can be used year-round. As the NFL season gets games added, they’re gonna be playing into mid-January in regular season and into February for playoffs. If, as reported, they’re going to have a partial covering over seating (something akin to the old Dallas stadium) then why not do a retractable for the 10% of roof that’s left?

Our Winters in Buffalo are getting more mild.. literally didn't snow till like January this past winter

 

You'll never get a purist to say football should be played in a dome.. it is a game for the elements

 

Players coaches and fans embrace it, especially in buffalo 

 

The worst weather we have in Buffalo is technically the wind, and we absolutely can play football in wind  

 

We are not the snowiest NFL City, and there's ones above us that play outside

 

 

 

 

[BuffaloBills1998]

https://www.buffalorumblings.com/platform/amp/2021/8/14/22624682/of-course-buffalo-bills-will-pay-part-of-new-stadium-cost 

[LeGOATski]

I can't believe the Chicago Bears play in an open stadium. For chrissakes it's the Windy City and it darn right cold up there!

 

What a short-sighted move by whoever built that crapheap.

 

 

😉

[loyal2dagame]

22 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

I can't believe the Chicago Bears play in an open stadium. For chrissakes it's the Windy City and it darn right cold up there!

 

What a short-sighted move by whoever built that crapheap.

 

 

😉

 

In 1893, Charles A. Dana, an editor of the “New York Sun,” published an editorial calling Chicago a “windy city.” He did so in reference to the city's full-of-hot air politicians who were advocating and wooing organizers to hold the 1893 World's Columbian Exposition in the city instead of in New York.

the real story behind "The Windy City"  💨💨💨 😉

[purple haze]

22 hours ago, Simon said:

 

I wouldn't really want to see a dome either and don't think it will happen.

But make no mistake, this decision won't be made with the fans in mind, it will be made with money in mind.

From what’s been reported it seems the decision is made.  Open air-Orchard Park.  It’s more cost effective.   A roof adds hundreds of millions onto the cost.  And the figure for a downtown stadium I saw in one of the articles, I believe Tim Graham’s in The Athletic, was 2.5 Billion.  I was a proponent of a downtown stadium and that estimation changed my mind.  
 

Open air-Orchard Park is keeping fans in mind.  That combo will significantly lessen the public expenditures some are already upset about.  

 

 

 

 

Edited August 14, 2021 by purple haze

[Doc]

2 minutes ago, purple haze said:

From what’s been reported it seems the decision is made.  Open air-Orchard Park.  It’s more cost effective.   A roof adds hundreds of millions onto the cost.  And the figure for a downtown stadium I saw in one of the articles, I believe Tim Graham’s in The Athletic, was 2.5 Billion.  I was a proponent of a downtown stadium and that estimation changed my mind.  
 

Open air-Orchard Park is keeping fans in mind.  That combo will significantly lessen the public expenditures some are already upset about. 

 

As I asked earlier, what is the cost difference between the overhang they plan on installing to shield the fans, versus a roof?  I doubt the overhang will be cheap.

[LeGOATski]

4 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

As I asked earlier, what is the cost difference between the overhang they plan on installing to shield the fans, versus a roof?  I doubt the overhang will be cheap.

Where have you read about an overhang? Just curious.

[LeGOATski]

 

The overhang design makes sense and had me thinking about European soccer stadiums. Look at all these: https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/the-largest-stadiums-in-europe.html

 

And that design is ideal for crowd noise amplification. It's like a big amplifier, whereas covered stadiums suck for noise because the sound waves bounce back and cancel out.

[purple haze]

5 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

As I asked earlier, what is the cost difference between the overhang they plan on installing to shield the fans, versus a roof?  I doubt the overhang will be cheap.

No idea what the cost difference is.  But I imagine the  overhang will be fixed.  A retractable roof would have motorized mechanisms allowing it to open and close; and those mechanisms will require upkeep going forward.  I would guess those factors would create a sizeable cost difference.   

[LeGOATski]

3 minutes ago, purple haze said:

No idea what the cost difference is.  But I imagine the  overhang will be fixed.  A retractable roof would have motorized mechanisms allowing it to open and close; and those mechanisms will require upkeep going forward.  I would guess those factors would create a sizeable cost difference.   

I bet the difference between an overhang and full roof isn't much, relatively speaking. The retractable roof is where cost skyrockets.

 

I'd rather just have a retractable field, like the Cards have. I think Vikings might have that too now?

 

Overall, the Cards stadium is very cool, but is super ugly from the outside.

[purple haze]

3 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

 

The overhang design makes sense and had me thinking about European soccer stadiums. Look at all these: https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/the-largest-stadiums-in-europe.html

 

And that design is ideal for crowd noise amplification. It's like a big amplifier, whereas covered stadiums suck for noise because the sound waves bounce back and cancel out.

My initial guess was a soccer style stadium, but downtown.  It will be in OP, but I think the new joint will be in that style. 65,000 seats, a Bills museum, restroom stations in the parking lot, and video screens too.  

[Doc]

12 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

Where have you read about an overhang? Just curious.

 

I believe it was in the Athletic article.

 

5 minutes ago, purple haze said:

No idea what the cost difference is.  But I imagine the  overhang will be fixed.  A retractable roof would have motorized mechanisms allowing it to open and close; and those mechanisms will require upkeep going forward.  I would guess those factors would create a sizeable cost difference.   

 

A retractable roof is right out: they rarely ever get used and add significant cost.  I'm talking about an overhand that covers the stands versus spending a little extra to fill in the remainder. 

[LeGOATski]

 

I wonder how many Euro soccer fans complain about open-air stadiums. Like American football, European football is meant to be played outside.

[Putin]

I like the Hard Rock stadium in Miami I wouldn’t mind something similar to that in Orchard Park 

[purple haze]

2 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

I believe it was in the Athletic article.

 

 

A retractable roof is right out: they rarely ever get used and add significant cost.  I'm talking about an overhand that covers the stands versus spending a little extra to fill in the remainder. 

I misunderstood you.  My bad.  That said,  I still have no idea, but I don’t see how it would be a big cost difference.  
 

I would hate to watch a game in a totally closed environment though.  I could just stay home.  

[Beast]

I don't want an overhang. Nothing worse than watching a game that has sunshine and the shadow like the old Texas Stadium.

Edited August 14, 2021 by Beast

[LeGOATski]

5 minutes ago, Beast said:

I don't want an overhang. Nothing worse than watching a game that has sunshine and the shadow like the old Texas Stadium.

They can make clear overhangs

[oldmanfan]

https://apnews.com/3dfa64fbcc15603f5e615774400c34de
 

Terry and Kim know they will pay some of the costs.  Just have to figure out the balance now.

[Victory Formation]

Yes, please.

[MAJBobby]

Can you put Stadium in the title. I am NOT going to be reading Stadium Negotiation Drama all season. Thank you. 

[Punching Bag]

2 hours ago, LeGOATski said:

I bet the difference between an overhang and full roof isn't much, relatively speaking. The retractable roof is where cost skyrockets.

 

I'd rather just have a retractable field, like the Cards have. I think Vikings might have that too now?

 

Overall, the Cards stadium is very cool, but is super ugly from the outside.

 

I have been in Cardinals' stadium and there are lots of seats sold with partial or blocked seating.

This is a design flaw IMO of domed stadiums especially since teams will sell every possible seat.

[LeGOATski]

1 hour ago, Limeaid said:

 

I have been in Cardinals' stadium and there are lots of seats sold with partial or blocked seating.

This is a design flaw IMO of domed stadiums especially since teams will sell every possible seat.

Yeah, the guardrails can be annoying

[Just Jack]

4 hours ago, Doc said:

 

As I asked earlier, what is the cost difference between the overhang they plan on installing to shield the fans, versus a roof?  I doubt the overhang will be cheap.

 

When Miami added their overhang, it was a little over $100M.

 

Partial roof for Dolphins' stadium has big price tag - South Florida Business Journal (bizjournals.com)

 

Quote

About a third of the $350 million modernization cost proposed for Sun Life Stadium would pay for the canopy and its lighting system.

 

What I did not remember, was the NFL demanded the roof be put on, or they would not get any more Super Bowls.

 

5 Things About the Hard Rock Stadium Roof Before Super Bowl LIV | 2020-01-21 | Roofing Contractor

 

Quote

In 2010, the NFL threatened to keep the stadium from future Super Bowl consideration unless major renovations, including a roof, were completed.

 

[Punching Bag]

2 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

Yeah, the guardrails can be annoying

 

In my case my seat was below another section with a girder in front of me. 

I could only see by looking on either side of it.  I could only see part of broadcast big screen.

I found out later than a number of seats are sold to people who never sit in them and just spend time in standing area and at cafe.

[LabattBlue]

1 hour ago, Limeaid said:

 

In my case my seat was below another section with a girder in front of me. 

I could only see by looking on either side of it.  I could only see part of broadcast big screen.

I found out later than a number of seats are sold to people who never sit in them and just spend time in standing area and at cafe.

So, because of what you experienced from one seat in AZ, “all” enclosed stadiums have a design flaw of obstructed seating?

[Punching Bag]

16 minutes ago, BTB said:

So, because of what you experienced from one seat in AZ, “all” enclosed stadiums have a design flaw of obstructed seating?

 

I have been in 4 different stadiums with obstructed seating.  One I bought from ticket office and was able to get changed because it said nothing about it on ticket when purchased.  Arizona was last dome game I went to.

 

In the one I bought from ticket office I said I'd dispute charge with credit company but could not do with others since I did not directly buy from team.

[Doc]

Are there any enclosed stadiums without obstructed view seats?

[dollars 2 donuts]

 

[LabattBlue]

I think most people knew this already...the current stadium is falling apart.

 

https://buffalonews.com/sports/bills/pegula-executives-renovating-highmark-stadium-for-bills-is-just-not-realistic/article_c373cc30-fc96-11eb-b6db-0b8d5d25abf5.html

 

 

PS For the preschoolers who like pictures more than words, you will like this story. 😂

Edited August 15, 2021 by BTB

[RiotAct]

33 minutes ago, BTB said:

I think most people knew this already...the current stadium is falling apart.

 

https://buffalonews.com/sports/bills/pegula-executives-renovating-highmark-stadium-for-bills-is-just-not-realistic/article_c373cc30-fc96-11eb-b6db-0b8d5d25abf5.html

 

 

PS For the preschoolers who like pictures more than words, you will like this story. 😂

TIL what “vomitorium” means.

[YoloinOhio]

48 minutes ago, BTB said:

I think most people knew this already...the current stadium is falling apart.

 

https://buffalonews.com/sports/bills/pegula-executives-renovating-highmark-stadium-for-bills-is-just-not-realistic/article_c373cc30-fc96-11eb-b6db-0b8d5d25abf5.html

 

 

PS For the preschoolers who like pictures more than words, you will like this story. 😂

This is for those who insist the Bills don’t “need” a new stadium. They have needed one for awhile and the Pegulas bought the team with that knowledge. It would be a huge waste of money to sink any more into the current stadium. 
 

as Tim Graham wrote yesterday, there are economic and geographic realities as to why it’s going in OP and not downtown and why it will be open air. And why this is all a lot of MUD when it comes to taxpayer responsibility. Keep in mind TG has never been a PSE or Bills apologist, so there is no bias when he’s indicating they are trying to build a the best structure that will be the most cost effective for the WNY economy.

 

https://theathletic.com/2769323/2021/08/13/taxpayers-wipe-your-brow-why-bills-stadium-rhetoric-is-causing-unnecessary-angst/?source=user_shared_article

Edited August 15, 2021 by YoloinOhio

[Wayne Cubed]

49 minutes ago, BTB said:

I think most people knew this already...the current stadium is falling apart.

 

https://buffalonews.com/sports/bills/pegula-executives-renovating-highmark-stadium-for-bills-is-just-not-realistic/article_c373cc30-fc96-11eb-b6db-0b8d5d25abf5.html

 

 

PS For the preschoolers who like pictures more than words, you will like this story. 😂

 

Yup, just doesn't make sense to sink $1 billion into a stadium that's falling apart when you can spend $1.4 billion for a new one. This isn't a Solider Field or Lambeau type situation. 

[atlbillsfan1975]

56 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

This is for those who insist the Bills don’t “need” a new stadium. They have needed one for awhile and the Pegulas bought the team with that knowledge. It would be a huge waste of money to sink any more into the current stadium. 
 

as Tim Graham wrote yesterday, there are economic and geographic realities as to why it’s going in OP and not downtown and why it will be open air. And why this is all a lot of MUD when it comes to taxpayer responsibility. Keep in mind TG has never been a PSE or Bills apologist, so there is no bias when he’s indicating they are trying to build a the best structure that will be the most cost effective for the WNY economy.

 

https://theathletic.com/2769323/2021/08/13/taxpayers-wipe-your-brow-why-bills-stadium-rhetoric-is-causing-unnecessary-angst/?source=user_shared_article

100% correct. Bills fans, and honestly all effected taxpayers,  should read that story. Does a great job of showing how it’s probably more like $50 million taxpayers are on the hook for. Think about how much revenue the Bills bring in every year from people like myself going to a game. 

[PromoTheRobot]

1 hour ago, RiotAct said:

TIL what “vomitorium” means.

 

I didn't realize folks in the 100-level got this luxury amenity 

 

[RiotAct]

1 minute ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

I didn't realize folks in the 100-level got this luxury amenity 

 

I could use a dedicated place to vomit at the home opener if I over-indulge before the game.