RB depth

[Doc]

1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said:

It allows them to have an extra PS for someone else.  Nothing is wasted except a few bucks to pay Wade.

 

The 12th player on the PS never sees the field and could be signed off the street.  It's not a reason to keep Wade on the IPP.

[In Summary]

17 minutes ago, BubbaT said:

Improve the interior of the offensive line so the running backs don't meet the D tackles 1 yard from where they get the ball and the run game might look a lot better

It starts there.

[In Summary]

Moss had ankle surgery on January 20. Will be interesting to see how he gets worked back in.

[Mr. WEO]

9 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

The 12th player on the PS never sees the field and could be signed off the street.  It's not a reason to keep Wade on the IPP.

 

 

Too late.  They can always change their mind and waive him and resign him to the PS.

Edited May 8, 2021 by Mr. WEO

[BADOLBILZ]

3 hours ago, BrainwashedBillsFan said:

Idk if anyone follows Antonio Williams IG but that kid is working hard. Would love for the coaching staff to utilize him this year. Between him and moss I like our backfield. I know singletary states that he all of a sudden developed a burst in the off-season but I’m not gonna hold my breath. No defense is afraid of that guy. He has an average skill set. Pretty comfortable with our backfield right now. Does anyone know if moss will be ready for camp? Go Bills 

 

So you are saying that teams are afraid of Antonio Williams and Zach Moss?  

 

C'mon.

 

The running game will be good if the blocking is good.

 

[Doc]

5 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

Too late.  They can always change their mind and waive him and resign him to the PS.

 

I missed the news about him being designated again.  Another wasted year.

[Mr. WEO]

5 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

I missed the news about him being designated again.  Another wasted year.

 

I bet they waive him

[Doc]

Just now, Mr. WEO said:

I bet they waive him

 

It's possible.  Although I don't know why they'd bother designating him.  It's not like teams would be lining up to sign him.

[Thurman#1]

3 hours ago, BrainwashedBillsFan said:

Idk if anyone follows Antonio Williams IG but that kid is working hard. Would love for the coaching staff to utilize him this year. Between him and moss I like our backfield. I know singletary states that he all of a sudden developed a burst in the off-season but I’m not gonna hold my breath. No defense is afraid of that guy. He has an average skill set. Pretty comfortable with our backfield right now. Does anyone know if moss will be ready for camp? Go Bills 

 

 

Agreed that no defense is afraid of Singletary. But realistically, there are maybe seven or eight RBs league-wide that actually cause fear. Is it ten, maybe? I don't know, possibly, but not more.

 

Singletary at his best is a very good back, though not a home run threat. Even last year he was pretty solid. Moss was even better than that by the end of the year. Antonio Williams we don't really know who he is. He sure doesn't cause fear either.

 

 I agree that I'm pretty comfortable this year with Breida making it an interesting foursome. I absolutely expect Singletary to be better. But how much better is extremely hard to say.

Edited May 8, 2021 by Thurman#1

[1ManRaid]

56 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

Consider that both our RBs had mediocre output last season due primarily to run block scheming being so poorly conceived, that none of our backs were feared by our opponents. Don’t get me wrong, We have quality RBs in Singletary and Moss, our OC did not prioritize the run game to the point that it was an afterthought this past season.  Our RB by committee will be better thought of by our fans and opponents this upcoming season. 

 

And that's what I've been saying.  It feels like this year will be the evolution of our running game and pass rush now that we've spent the last couple years building up the O-line and passing game.  If the steps taken this year mirror the ones taken in the last couple, there's no reason we can't be a legitimate Super Bowl threat.

[LABILLBACKER]

3 hours ago, Paul Costa said:

I wish Beane would finally listen to me and cut Taiwan Jones and keep Antonio Williams. Make him active on game days too. He might not be the gunner Taiwan is on punt coverage. I’d like to see how he does though. He was NC’s MVP on ST his Senior year. But it would be nice to have all our active RB’s be able to run the ball on game days. Makes too much sense to me

I'll never understand why teams don't cross train more players for ST. This would free up more skilled positioned players to be active. Williams is more than capable of competing for ST. There's nothing that screams decent RB with Taiwan. Williams did impress in his one late season game. Don't let ST handcuff the rest of your team. And finally the OL has to be better. They were just as responsible for our mediocre run attack as anyone. Block better big uglies. My top 4 rbs would be:

1. Breida 

2. Moss

3. Williams 

4. Singletary 

Edited May 8, 2021 by LABILLBACKER

[Rocky Landing]

8 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

I'll never understand why teams don't cross train more players for ST. This would free up more skilled positioned players to be active. Williams is more than capable of competing for ST. There's nothing that screams decent RB with Taiwan. Williams did impress in his one late season game. Don't let ST handcuff the rest of your team. And finally the OL has to be better. They were just as responsible for our mediocre run attack as anyone. Block better big uglies. My top 4 rbs would be:

1. Breida 

2. Moss

3. Williams 

4. Singletary 

I agree with all of this, as long as ST doesn't suffer as a result. Field position was a consistent asset last season.

 

As to the O-line, I do agree they need to open gaps, and keep them open for longer. But, I also think there was a real issue with timing, as well, and that was a question of scheme. I saw a lot of plays where the RB just hit the gap a step, or two too late, and it was just the timing of the play. That's on the coaching staff. 

[Mr. WEO]

27 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

It's possible.  Although I don't know why they'd bother designating him.  It's not like teams would be lining up to sign him.

maybe he’s truly just a practice dummy who doesn’t cost them a PS spot

[BuffaloBillyG]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

 

I have no idea what happened to him as well.  He had 12 rushes for 86 yards (7.2 YPC) against the Cheaters in the 3rd-to-last game of the season, a win, and then was relegated to just STs in their final 2 games. 

I remember that game. What was odd about it is he still was the Phins 2nd leading rusher on the day (Ahmed went for 120) and the Patties couldn't stop the run. But if he can play ST, perhaps he has a shot at being active on game day and carving out a role. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 hours ago, BrainwashedBillsFan said:

Idk if anyone follows Antonio Williams IG but that kid is working hard. Would love for the coaching staff to utilize him this year. Between him and moss I like our backfield. I know singletary states that he all of a sudden developed a burst in the off-season but I’m not gonna hold my breath. No defense is afraid of that guy. He has an average skill set. Pretty comfortable with our backfield right now. Does anyone know if moss will be ready for camp? Go Bills 

 

I will def. give him a follow.  Christian Wade has also gotten hooked up with some pretty elite RB training and is working hard.

 

I know Moss has posted pics of him working out at Adpro recently so perhaps he's there for an evaluation.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

4 hours ago, BrainwashedBillsFan said:

Idk if anyone follows Antonio Williams IG but that kid is working hard. Would love for the coaching staff to utilize him this year. Between him and moss I like our backfield. I know singletary states that he all of a sudden developed a burst in the off-season but I’m not gonna hold my breath. No defense is afraid of that guy. He has an average skill set. Pretty comfortable with our backfield right now. Does anyone know if moss will be ready for camp? Go Bills 

i would love to see Antonio Williams be a legit option for us. Given that he is undrafted though, he is really going to have to shine. Hopefully he is working on all aspects of his game— ST, receiving, blocking. It would be great if he could displace a guy like Taiwan, who only brings ST to the table. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 hours ago, No Place To Hyde said:

I am expecting absolutely nothing out of Breida this year. He will be the guy every freaks out over bring a weekly inactive every week if Moss/Singletary/Jones are healthy. He's fast...sure. But that speed didn't help him make much impact in a Dolphin backfield last year that was basically bare. 

Breida played well in the Shannahan offense which is built to make RBs shine. But I just don't see him having many opportunities if the young guys are healthy. He's in the Yeldon role. 

 

Ah yes, the Mystery of the Missing Breida. 

 

Dolphins were 16th in the league for attempts, but 22nd for yards.  3.9 ypa.  So in general their rushing attack was AWOL.

 

I don't quite know what to make of it, except that was better than their #32 ranked rushing attack the previous year.   Maybe their run blocking sucked worse than ours and they needed a bruiser back who could make his own holes?

 

I think they signed him to have a speed option to the edge, which neither Singletary nor Moss can manage, the question is how much of his problems last year were with the scheme/coach/blocking and how much were his?

 

We'll see.

 

I wish the Bills would move on from this business of having many roster spots given to guys who are listed as "RB" or "WR" or "DE" or "LB" but are really 100% ST'ers, like Taiwan Jones and Andre Roberts.  It is hindering us offensively and defensively.  Sometimes I think Heath Farwell has naughty pictures of McD and Beane.

[Charles Romes]

Singletary looked outright dangerous his rookie year and there was a pronounced dropoff. Maybe it was a matter of conditioning or injury. Because of his rookie year I’m holding out hope that he will be significantly better in year 3 than in year 2. 

[Doc]

59 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

maybe he’s truly just a practice dummy who doesn’t cost them a PS spot

 

Yeah but he costs them money.

 

44 minutes ago, No Place To Hyde said:

I remember that game. What was odd about it is he still was the Phins 2nd leading rusher on the day (Ahmed went for 120) and the Patties couldn't stop the run. But if he can play ST, perhaps he has a shot at being active on game day and carving out a role. 

 

Yeah, Ahmed had 122 yards but on 23 carries, for a 5.3 YPC average.  And they rushed him just 6 times in each of the final 2 games.

[Paul Costa]

1 hour ago, Rocky Landing said:

I agree with all of this, as long as ST doesn't suffer as a result. Field position was a consistent asset last season.

 

As to the O-line, I do agree they need to open gaps, and keep them open for longer. But, I also think there was a real issue with timing, as well, and that was a question of scheme. I saw a lot of plays where the RB just hit the gap a step, or two too late, and it was just the timing of the play. That's on the coaching staff. 

I agree no one wants ST to suffer. Taiwan Jones had 5 tackles last year. Kumarow or Antonio Williams can get 5 ST tackles this year. We all assume Taiwan Jones is this great ST player. Come on man he’s not Steve Tasker. And Tasker could go in on offense and make plays when needed. 

[ROCBillsBeliever]

2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

The IPP just lets a team take 91 before cutdown and 11 on the PS (IPP guy is the only PS player who can't be called up for his 1st year).  

 

But IPP doesn't give a player more or less eligibility on the PS.  It's still 3 seasons max.  Wade's last chance on a PS is this year.

 

I must have read it wrong, then. Thanks for clarifying.

[klos63]

5 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

I don't think the success of the run game in 2021 is about the running backs.   It's about the offensive line. 

 

Some combination of running backs will step up.   Each of Singletary and Moss and Breida is talented enough to be a 1000-yard runner.  

 

The problems last season were driven primarily by the offensive line's failures.   The didn't create many nice holes to run through, and the zone blocking schemes were ineffective because they didn't get the push they needed.   The result was that the running backs had a half dozen or more plays per game where first contact as at the line of scrimmage instead of five-yards downfield.  That's 30 or more yards per game, and that's the difference between 107 yards per game, 20th in the league, and 137 yards per game, or 8th in the league.  

 

How many times were Singletary and Moss - and Allen, for that matter - stuffed on the line of scrimmage last season?   It's the line, not the backs.  

There's a very revealing stat from last season, both Moss and Singletary took their first hits within 2 yards of the LOS, some of the worst numbers in the league, however, they were in good company with yards after initial contact, confirming your comment on offensive line failures.

[Mat68]

I think Moss could be a guy if he is healthy.  Singeltary is not flashy but gets positive yards.  Breida has the potential to make big plays.  Williams showed well enough and stole the soul of a defeated team vs Miami.  Not flashy but probably the right amount of resources dedicated.

[Matt_In_NH]

7 hours ago, wppete said:

1. Moss

2. Singletary 

3. Brieda (3rd down Back)

they only dressed 2 last year...The other dude is a speacial teamer.  Breida is not a third down back.    Two of those three dress, which two are you choosing?

[JohnBonhamRocks]

9 minutes ago, mattynh said:

they only dressed 2 last year...The other dude is a speacial teamer.  Breida is not a third down back.    Two of those three dress, which two are you choosing?

If I had to choose then I’d go Breida & Moss, but I definitely think they dress all 3 barring injury. 

[Doc]

13 minutes ago, mattynh said:

they only dressed 2 last year...The other dude is a speacial teamer.  Breida is not a third down back.    Two of those three dress, which two are you choosing?

 

He does play STs though.

[Matt_In_NH]

4 minutes ago, JohnBonhamRocks said:

If I had to choose then I’d go Breida & Moss, but I definitely think they dress all 3 barring injury. 

 

 

Well last year it was Moss Singletary and Tawian Jones (who isn't really a RB).  The other guy (from Jacksonville, forget his name) did not dress unless due to injury or other circumstances.  So if you dress all three, somone else does not dress and it goes against what they did last year which is possible but someone will have to not dress.  None of those three seem like they fill the ST role like Jones can.

[Shaw66]

2 hours ago, klos63 said:

There's a very revealing stat from last season, both Moss and Singletary took their first hits within 2 yards of the LOS, some of the worst numbers in the league, however, they were in good company with yards after initial contact, confirming your comment on offensive line failures.

Thanks for this.  I'd seen that stat before and forgotten about it.   I just have this image of run after run with no place for Moss or Singletary to go.  Give them a decent crease, and they were pretty good. 

 

I like the offensive line coming into this season.   I don't know, but I think the coaches really like the power game Ford can bring, if they can keep him on the field.   As I've said before, I wonder whether Feliciano might push Morse at center.   I won't be surprised if the running game bounces back this season, and if it does, it will be the front five doing it. 

[CEN-CAL17]

What is Moss doing to take over as RB1 is the question?

 

Bills FO must see more in him.... he had flashes last year on about a dozen plays. Gotta stay healthy.

[Rocky Landing]

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

Thanks for this.  I'd seen that stat before and forgotten about it.   I just have this image of run after run with no place for Moss or Singletary to go.  Give them a decent crease, and they were pretty good. 

 

I like the offensive line coming into this season.   I don't know, but I think the coaches really like the power game Ford can bring, if they can keep him on the field.   As I've said before, I wonder whether Feliciano might push Morse at center.   I won't be surprised if the running game bounces back this season, and if it does, it will be the front five doing it. 

I know a lot of hay has been made that our woes in the running game is more about the O-line than it is about the running backs, and I agree that that is a big element in getting an effective run game.. But, I also think there was a real issue with timing, as well, and that was a question of scheme. I saw a lot of plays where the RB just hit the gap a step, or two too late, and it was just a question of the timing of the play. Sure, the O-line could have held the gap a little longer. But, I feel like I saw a lot of plays where if the RB could have hit the gap a little earlier, they would have had a lane into the secondary before they made contact with the opposing backfield. And that's on coaching.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Christian Wade

 

 

[BigAl2526]

The depth of the running back group is fine.  The problem has been the inconsistency of production from Singletary and Moss.  Whether that is the fault of the two RBs themselves, the blocking personnel or blocking schemes, the play calling or whatever.

[Mr. WEO]

5 hours ago, Doc said:

 

Yeah but he costs them money.

 

 

Yeah, Ahmed had 122 yards but on 23 carries, for a 5.3 YPC average.  And they rushed him just 6 times in each of the final 2 games.

lol $200k?  You’re right.  That might bite into the Pegula daughters salad shop backstop

[Shaw66]

12 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

I know a lot of hay has been made that our woes in the running game is more about the O-line than it is about the running backs, and I agree that that is a big element in getting an effective run game.. But, I also think there was a real issue with timing, as well, and that was a question of scheme. I saw a lot of plays where the RB just hit the gap a step, or two too late, and it was just a question of the timing of the play. Sure, the O-line could have held the gap a little longer. But, I feel like I saw a lot of plays where if the RB could have hit the gap a little earlier, they would have had a lane into the secondary before they made contact with the opposing backfield. And that's on coaching.

That's a good point.  That in-depth article about Singletary from a couple of weeks ago made that point.  It said that the opportunities that the offensive line did create last season were small and they require quick, one-cut decisions.   See it, hit it, then figure out what to do when you're in the hole.   Moss was much better than Singletary doing that last season.  Singletary was more hesitant.  The article said that that's what Singletary is focusing on.  It's the kind of running that we saw from Singletary two years ago, when the holes were a little bigger.  

 

The point is the same, however.  Assuming Singletary attacks the line the way he can, the Bills don't need better running backs - they need the line to do its job.  

 

Would I like a more talented ball carrier?  Sure.  Kareem Hunt would have been a cool addition.  Hunt would have needed run blocking too, but his extra gear and shiftiness would have been a nice addition.  

[klos63]

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

Thanks for this.  I'd seen that stat before and forgotten about it.   I just have this image of run after run with no place for Moss or Singletary to go.  Give them a decent crease, and they were pretty good. 

 

I like the offensive line coming into this season.   I don't know, but I think the coaches really like the power game Ford can bring, if they can keep him on the field.   As I've said before, I wonder whether Feliciano might push Morse at center.   I won't be surprised if the running game bounces back this season, and if it does, it will be the front five doing it. 

I've watched youtube highlights of a few games from the past season, and acknowledging that they are 'highlights', Singletary looked really good when given any chance to with a little space. Also, there wasn't any game that the game plan was centered around the running game, I think there will be more emphasis on running than last season, while still being a big passing team.

[CaptnCoke11]

Let’s take the ball out of Josh’s hands more to appease the running game crowd 👎🏻

[Doc]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

lol $200k?  You’re right.  That might bite into the Pegula daughters salad shop backstop

 

Wasted money is wasted money.  If he remains on IPP, he doesn't play, again, this year.  And making a stunning debut at the spry age of 30 likely isn't going to happen.

[Milanos Milano]

2 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

Christian Wade

 

 

He will make the team. I’m convinced his raw talent will translate and he’s had enough years to learn the game. 

[JohnBonhamRocks]

4 hours ago, mattynh said:

Well last year it was Moss Singletary and Tawian Jones (who isn't really a RB).  The other guy (from Jacksonville, forget his name) did not dress unless due to injury or other circumstances.  So if you dress all three, somone else does not dress and it goes against what they did last year which is possible but someone will have to not dress.  None of those three seem like they fill the ST role like Jones can.

 

All I guess I can say is last year was last year and this year is this year. Breida is better than Yeldon. We don't have Roberts being just a returner this year. Who knows if we carry a FB or how many TEs we carry? Who knows how many players who make the roster this year will be able to double dip as STers and fill Jones' role? 

[Matt_In_NH]

8 hours ago, JohnBonhamRocks said:

 

All I guess I can say is last year was last year and this year is this year. Breida is better than Yeldon. We don't have Roberts being just a returner this year. Who knows if we carry a FB or how many TEs we carry? Who knows how many players who make the roster this year will be able to double dip as STers and fill Jones' role? 

I agree things can change but it does not really make sense in my eyes for a team that wants to throw it and have one back on the field is going to use three active positions on rb.  They don’t have an fb.   We will see.