Devin Singletary - Will he be playing for the Bills this year?

[Chandler#81]

3 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Good, I hope that's exactly what we do. Breida will be our RB1 and Moss will sub. Devin was underwhelming last season whether you want to blame him or the OL. We have to upgrade this running attack or teams will just ignore our RB's....

It’s not OTHER teams who ignore our RB’s, WE ignore our RB’s. Ask Pete Carroll or Vic Fangio.

[rayray808]

if no RB is taken in the top 29, I could see us going RB and then trading away MOSS but not Devin.

 

Teams would give us more for him rather than Devin

[In Summary]

At a minimum, Singletary stays until Moss shows he's fully back from the ankle injury. Plus he's a decent blocker, knows the offense, and is cheap.

[GunnerBill]

I said a few weeks ago that I thought there was a strong possibility of Singletary being moved. Still feel that way.

[hjnick]

5 hours ago, NewEra said:

Lol.  Maybe singletary and a 3rd plus a 6th next year 

As well as Wyatt Teller.  That didn’t work out so well

I always overvalue our players.  

 

I guess if we could move our 3rd and singletary to get an early/mid 2nd round, that is probably a good trade.

 

Buffalo's #93 pick is worth 128 pts.  Lets say Arizona traded their 2nd round to us #49, it's worth 410.  Diff is 282. 

 

282 points is roughly equivalent to the bottom 2nd round pick, #62.  So I guess that would mean that Singletary is equiv to a 2nd round pick in that scenario.

 

 

I just don't see Beane trading away Singletary unless he gets at least a 3rd round pick, which is where he was drafted.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

6 hours ago, Logic said:

 

Each situation is unique. For one thing, Jones was drafted prior to the arrival of the GM who traded him away. For another, the team got a new quarterback and decided that the WR skillset they coveted most to pair with said QB was not one possessed by Jones.

In any case, you'll have to forgive me if I don't see the Bills throwing in the towel on a third year 3rd round pick who has averaged 4.8 ypc in his young career. It would likely involve spending a 1st round pick on a running back, then turning around and trading Singletary away -- when his value is at its lowest -- for a late round pick. It just doesn't feel like logical roster building or a smart use of resources.

I'm just stating facts. You said this regime doesn't give up on early draft picks. It's just not true. McD was HC and by most reports was running the draft when they traded up for Jones.

I agree it's too early to give up on Singletary.  But I think most folks are correct, that his value on the trade market would be fairly low.  

[Not at the table Karlos]

6 hours ago, MWK said:

We probably will not get rid of him, but he is on a short leash. People seem to forget he got benched during the Kansas City game. I don’t think we should give up on him, but he does have some serious limitations, like his slow speed. I wouldn’t hate drafting the right RB at some point, and Singletary is not going to stop them from doing it if there is a running back they like somewhere in the draft. If we don’t draft a running back, he needs to have a better season or he will be gone after this year. 

Moss got benched during games,  put up worse stats than singletary and is also slow. Is he on a short leash too?
 

I don’t get the Moss love and Singletary hate. They both were meh last year. The run scheme fit Moss better and Singletary put up slightly better numbers. 

Edited April 12, 2021 by Not at the table Karlos

[Ethan in Cleveland]

41 minutes ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

Moss got benched during games,  put up worse stats than singletary and is also slow. Is he on a short leash too?
 

I don’t get the Moss love and Singletary hate. They both were meh last year. The run scheme fit Moss better and Singletary put up slightly better numbers. 

Moss seemed to get better as the season wore one. I think people are just reacting to the fact that Moss was the starter by mid-season and was getting the bulk of the carries down the stretch.

Of course this is the same HC that started Peterman and took 2 and a half years to bench Murphy. 

 

[Thurman#1]

25 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Moss seemed to get better as the season wore one. I think people are just reacting to the fact that Moss was the starter by mid-season and was getting the bulk of the carries down the stretch.

Of course this is the same HC that started Peterman and took 2 and a half years to bench Murphy. 

 

 

 

Also the same head coach who has taken this team from well below average to competitive for a Super Bowl. The guy who took this team from irrelevant for two decades to beyond relevant and into competitive for a title.

 

 

 

8 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Zay Jones was a 2nd round pick by McD and they gave up on him. I doubt Beane or McD would keep a player just because they drafted him.

 

 

Agreed that they wouldn't keep a player "just because they drafted him." True, not only for that reason.

 

But the thing about Zay is that he wasn't good. Was Zay ever near the very top of the league in any year in any important stat as Singletary was in YPC in 2019? I sure didn't notice if he was.

 

And despite having much more to prove than Singletary does, Zay did play with the Bills in his third year, though he didn't make it all the way through the season.

Edited April 12, 2021 by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

1 hour ago, Ethan in Portland said:

I'm just stating facts. You said this regime doesn't give up on early draft picks. It's just not true. McD was HC and by most reports was running the draft when they traded up for Jones.

I agree it's too early to give up on Singletary.  But I think most folks are correct, that his value on the trade market would be fairly low.  

 

 

No, that's NOT what he said. Not in that post or in any post here. What you ought to do when you talk about what other people said, you want to use the quote itself. You didn't, and therefore very poorly summarized what he said, whether deliberately or carelessly. Here's what he actually said:

 

10 hours ago, Logic said:

Giving up on third round picks after two seasons hasn’t been the M.O. of this front office. PARTICULARLY when the player showed a lot of promise in one of those years.

 

 

 He did NOT say "this regime doesn't give up on early draft picks." He specifically mentioned, "after two seasons." Which is correct. Jones was traded five games into his third year. They gave him a shot to improve in his third year, but he simply didn't step up.

 

Logic also DID say, "PARTICULARLY when the player showed a lot of promise in one of those years." And there isn't any question that Singletary showed a lot of promise his first year, top four in YPA among RBs. Where is Zay's top four finish? Top five? Top ten?

 

I guess you could argue if you think that Zay showed a lot of promise. I'd love to hear you try to make that argument. I'd find it hard to swallow anything much beyond that he showed potential.

Edited April 12, 2021 by Thurman#1

[JaCrispy]

6 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Good, I hope that's exactly what we do. Breida will be our RB1 and Moss will sub. Devin was underwhelming last season whether you want to blame him or the OL. We have to upgrade this running attack or teams will just ignore our RB's....

I would love Javante Williams

[Gugny]

Those 4.8 yards per carry just aren't cutting it. 

[BuffaloBillies]

No Gain

2 & 7 - BUF 49

(12:46 - 2nd) J.Allen pass incomplete short right to D.Singletary.

[JaCrispy]

3 minutes ago, BuffaloBillies said:

No Gain

2 & 7 - BUF 49

(12:46 - 2nd) J.Allen pass incomplete short right to D.Singletary.

This will go down as his “Ronnie Harmon” play...

[gjv001]

I believe Beane's focus for this draft will be on improving the defense. That being, should two players of equal or close/equal board rating be available, the defensive player will get the nod. The one caveat, will be if Najee Harris is available at 30. I feel they will pick Harris over a closely rated defensive player. I think they like Harris enough to move up a couple spots to draft him. 

[BarleyNY]

6 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

I said a few weeks ago that I thought there was a strong possibility of Singletary being moved. Still feel that way.

 

I just don’t see a team giving up much of anything for him.  Player for player, part of a bigger trade (which isn’t happening) or a flip of picks maybe - but not a straight up pick.  If that’s the kind of RB that a team seeks, then why wouldn’t they just draft someone on day 3 and have them under contract for 4 years?

[GunnerBill]

Just now, BarleyNY said:

 

I just don’t see a team giving up much of anything for him.  Player for player, part of a bigger trade (which isn’t happening) or a flip of picks maybe - but not a straight up pick.  If that’s the kind of RB that a team seeks, then why wouldn’t they just draft someone on day 3 and have them under contract for 4 years?

 

Yea player for player is more how I saw it. 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

2 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

No, that's NOT what he said. Not in that post or in any post here. What you ought to do when you talk about what other people said, you want to use the quote itself. You didn't, and therefore very poorly summarized what he said, whether deliberately or carelessly. Here's what he actually said:

 

 

 He did NOT say "this regime doesn't give up on early draft picks." He specifically mentioned, "after two seasons." Which is correct. Jones was traded five games into his third year. They gave him a shot to improve in his third year, but he simply didn't step up.

 

Logic also DID say, "PARTICULARLY when the player showed a lot of promise in one of those years." And there isn't any question that Singletary showed a lot of promise his first year, top four in YPA among RBs. Where is Zay's top four finish? Top five? Top ten?

 

I guess you could argue if you think that Zay showed a lot of promise. I'd love to hear you try to make that argument. I'd find it hard to swallow anything much beyond that he showed potential.

Zay was tied for most targets on the team his rookie year with 74 and in his second year he increased that and led the team with 104 targets. He led the team in receptions at 56 and yards at 650 in his second year.

Are any of those great? Not really but one could argue he was showing promise. What is not in those stats though is all the drops.

 

All that said, I'd say there is a less than 10% chance Singletary is traded.

 

[Ralonzo]

Singletary gets what he can between the tackles, and he's pretty good with those quick hitters, but because he really can't threaten a team outside, he's limited.

[Nuncha]

Singletary is done here...unless by some miracle he learns how to catch and comes up with a speed burst during camp.

Edited April 12, 2021 by Azucho98

[Don Otreply]

He very likely will be, considering that none of our RBs are  particularly a draw for other teams, so trade value is very low for any of them. There is a very good chance that what we have is what we will go with... we just need to actually give some level of priority to the run game and we will be fine in that regard.

Edited April 12, 2021 by Don Otreply

[Rocky Landing]

8 hours ago, rayray808 said:

if no RB is taken in the top 29, I could see us going RB and then trading away MOSS but not Devin.

 

Teams would give us more for him rather than Devin

I think this is very unlikely. Moss is a much better blocker in pass pro. Much better. Even as we start running the ball more (which I believe we will) Allen's arm will still drive this offense. Whoever ends up in the RB room, and whoever ends up starting, Moss will likely be on the field more than any of them.

[Yawning Frog]

[CA OC Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, JaCrispy said:

This will go down as his “Ronnie Harmon” play...

Can't agree with you there. DS' drop was early in the game, lots of time left. RH's was with the game on the line. If he catches it, we move on to the AFC Championship. Also, what really pxssed me off with RH was that he didn't take responsibility. He said the pass wasn't on target. Although possibly it could have had better placement, it was in his hands, no excuse to not catch it.

[JaCrispy]

22 minutes ago, CA OC Bills Fan said:

Can't agree with you there. DS' drop was early in the game, lots of time left. RH's was with the game on the line. If he catches it, we move on to the AFC Championship. Also, what really pxssed me off with RH was that he didn't take responsibility. He said the pass wasn't on target. Although possibly it could have had better placement, it was in his hands, no excuse to not catch it.

Yeah I hear ya...I’m just frustrated because it was such a major turning point in the game...

[TheyCallMeAndy]

IF the team moves on from Singletary it won’t be due to his contributions to the running game, but the passing game. Speculation that Moss got the bulk of the snaps at the tail end of the year due to Singletary not being a strong pass blocker or receiver out of the backfield.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

14 hours ago, billsfan89 said:

I am 70% sure that Singletary, Moss and Breida are the RB's this team is going with. I think McBeane will focus heavily on the defense via the draft. I think 2 out of the 3 top picks will be on the defensive side of the ball and I can't see them burning a pick at RB in the first 5 rounds. I can live with the young cheap backfield. The issue this team has running is in my mind more attributed to scheme and injuries along the O-line. 

 

OK but will all three be active on Sundays?  Last year they had Singletary, Moss and Yeldon, and Yeldon only was active if one of the other two were hurt.  Is Breida that much better than Yeldon to go with all 3 active and even if you feel he is that much better, which position gets one less starting slot?

 

The Bills were very good on ST and had a handful of players who for the most part that's all they did, Roberts, Gillian, Jones, and Matakevich, plus Bass, Ferguson, and the punter.  That's alot of roster spots there!  Roberts is gone, but will Powell take his spot or will they double up with McKenzie, as that would save one slot.

 

Based on past actions, not so sure they will go with 3 active RB's on Sundays, so for that reason I do think it's feasible to trade him.

 

The other draft day trade I could see happening to would be H Phillips IF they draft a D lineman in 1st round.  He or maybe Zimmer are the only two I see with any trade value.  But in either case, you may likely only be getting a 5th or 6th back in return.

Edited April 12, 2021 by Ed_Formerly_of_Roch

[MJS]

I do think he will be on the team and a significant contributor.

[GunnerBill]

15 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

Based on past actions, not so sure they will go with 3 active RB's on Sundays, so for that reason I do think it's feasible to trade him.

 

 

I looked into this earlier in the offseason and I can't remember the number of the top of my head but I looked at games with McDermott where three running backs (ie. excluding receivers running jet motion type stuff or full backs in short yardage) have had carries and it was single figures. They dress two running backs with a 3rd guy who is mainly there for teams and can carry the ball in an emergency. That is their approach. I don't expect them to deviate from it. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

11 hours ago, The Governor said:

Motor won’t be the starter when this team goes to a SB, because we won’t make it to one if he is.

 

Quick.  Name the starting RBs on the Patriots 6 SB victories.  For that matter, name the starting RBs on their 9 most recent SB appearances.

 

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I looked into this earlier in the offseason and I can't remember the number of the top of my head but I looked at games with McDermott where three running backs (ie. excluding receivers running jet motion type stuff or full backs in short yardage) have had carries and it was single figures. They dress two running backs with a 3rd guy who is mainly there for teams and can carry the ball in an emergency. That is their approach. I don't expect them to deviate from it. 

 

I think Daboll is more flexible than you give him credit for, and at this point has earned enough respect that he can influence the active roster.

I do think that having Taiwan Jones as a primarily ST guy and one active WR as a primarily ST guy limits us quite a bit, and I don't see us moving away from that.

 

 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I looked into this earlier in the offseason and I can't remember the number of the top of my head but I looked at games with McDermott where three running backs (ie. excluding receivers running jet motion type stuff or full backs in short yardage) have had carries and it was single figures. They dress two running backs with a 3rd guy who is mainly there for teams and can carry the ball in an emergency. That is their approach. I don't expect them to deviate from it. 

 

I agree, and for that reason could see a trade happening if they feel Breida is worth dressing on Sundays.  IMO Williams and/or Wade as an emergency injury replacement normally inactive on Sundays makes more sense.

[GunnerBill]

8 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Quick.  Name the starting RBs on the Patriots 6 SB victories.  For that matter, name the starting RBs on their 9 most recent SB appearances.

 

 

I think Daboll is more flexible than you give him credit for, and at this point has earned enough respect that he can make what changes he wants.

 

On the latter, I'm not sure how much it is in his hands. I am sure he has input into who dresses but ultimately that is McDermott's call. 

 

Can I have a go at the first part.... I think the answers are Sony Michel (most recent v Rams), then James White (vs Eagles), LaGarrette Blount (vs Falcons and Seahawks). I am going to guess that their first three Superbowls under Bill were all Kevin Faulk.... although stretching my memory. On the losing teams I think Stevan Ridley started the second Giants superbowl loss. First one I am struggling....

 

EDIT: the guesses were not designed to make any point by the way.... just an interesting trivia question!

Edited April 12, 2021 by GunnerBill

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

On the latter, I'm not sure how much it is in his hands. I am sure he has input into who dresses but ultimately that is McDermott's call. 

 

Can I have a go at the first part.... I think the answers are Sony Michel (most recent v Rams), then James White (vs Eagles), LaGarrette Blount (vs Falcons and Seahawks). I am going to guess that their first three Superbowls under Bill were all Kevin Faulk.... although stretching my memory. On the losing teams I think Stevan Ridley started the second Giants superbowl loss. First one I am struggling....

 

No fair, I wanted the guy who said we couldn't get to a SB with Devin Singletary to answer.   vs Eagles with White was one of the losses though...

[BarleyNY]

53 minutes ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

IF the team moves on from Singletary it won’t be due to his contributions to the running game, but the passing game. Speculation that Moss got the bulk of the snaps at the tail end of the year due to Singletary not being a strong pass blocker or receiver out of the backfield.

Totally agree.  Singletary has to step up as a pass blocker and receiver or he’s not much good to any team - particularly a team like the Bills that passes so much.  Tick tock 

[Rockinon]

I think the front office knows that Singletary is the best running back on the team at, well...running.  Buffalo's issues at rushing had very little to do with the backs themselves. The OL was banged up and they changed the blocking scheme mid season. That is where the focus will be this year. The OL is going to be getting a lot of reps for rushing the ball. This is still a passing team, but the OL is on notice. They need to run block better. Singletary isn't going anywhere, IMHO.

 

Midway through the season, the Bills changed the blocking scheme, because Moss is very quick to hit the hole...too quick. Singletary was better at waiting for his block, then hitting the hole. Some blocking schemes take time to develop, while others are designed for that one cut and run that Moss is used to. When people say Moss and Singletary are similar, they really don't know what they are talking about. Moss is impatient. Singletary is patient. Very different types of runners. Both are effective with the right blocking scheme.

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

No fair, I wanted the guy who said we couldn't get to a SB with Devin Singletary to answer.   vs Eagles with White was one of the losses though...

 

Hahah sorry. I have the correct answers now though.... I have based it on number of carries rather than strictly " who got the start."

 

Rams I - Antowain Smith

Panthers - Antowain Smith

Eagles I - Corey Dillon

Giants I - Laurence Maroney

Giants II - BenJarvus Green Ellis

Seahawks - LaGarrette Blount

Falcons - LaGarrette Blount

Eagles II - Dion Lewis

Rams II - Sony Michel

 

I should have got Smith and Dillon, of course. I wouldn't have got BenJarvus Green Ellis if I'd sat and thought about it until Christmas.

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Hahah sorry. I have the correct answers now though.... I have based it on number of carries rather than strictly " who got the start."

 

Rams I - Antowain Smith

Panthers - Antowain Smith

Eagles I - Corey Dillon

Giants I - Laurence Maroney

Giants II - BenJarvus Green Ellis

Seahawks - LaGarrette Blount

Falcons - LaGarrette Blount

Eagles II - Dion Lewis

Rams II - Sony Michel

 

I should have got Smith and Dillon, of course. I wouldn't have got BenJarvus Green Ellis if I'd sat and thought about it until Christmas.

 

So who of those guys would you class as an elite or even a top back, in those years?

 

16 minutes ago, Rockinon said:

I think the front office knows that Singletary is the best running back on the team at, well...running.  Buffalo's issues at rushing had very little to do with the backs themselves. The OL was banged up and they changed the blocking scheme mid season. That is where the focus will be this year. The OL is going to be getting a lot of reps for rushing the ball. This is still a passing team, but the OL is on notice. They need to run block better. Singletary isn't going anywhere, IMHO.

 

Midway through the season, the Bills changed the blocking scheme, because Moss is very quick to hit the hole...too quick. Singletary was better at waiting for his block, then hitting the hole. Some blocking schemes take time to develop, while others are designed for that one cut and run that Moss is used to. When people say Moss and Singletary are similar, they really don't know what they are talking about. Moss is impatient. Singletary is patient. Very different types of runners. Both are effective with the right blocking scheme.

 

Really?  How and when did they do that?

 

I doan think so Ceesco.

 

I don't think Moss is that quick to hit the hole.

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

So who of those guys would you class as an elite or even a top back, in those years?

 

Probably Dillon. He is a Hall of Very Good player in my book. Smith might have had 1,000 yards once for the Pats maybe? But he was never a top back. None of the others.

 

I think your point is right. I just thought it was good Monday afternoon trivia.

Edited April 12, 2021 by GunnerBill

[Boxcar]

14 hours ago, Rocky Landing said:

With Breida, Singletary, and Moss, the Bills have three very similar style, and size RBs. What we lack is a true power back, although Moss would be the closest thing to that in this trio. Moss is also an exceptional blocker-- much better than Singletary in that department. Breida has the acceleration that both Moss, and Singletary lack. It pains me to say that in my opinion, Singletary is likely the most redundant of the three.

 

I'm also of the opinion that improvements in the running game (including O-line blocking) is the Bills most pressing need on offense. I would love for the Bills to draft a heavier power back (Najee Harris?), or pick one up in FA who can consistently move the pile downhill, and not get stuffed, as Moss, and especially Singletary often were.

How is Breida similar to the other two in any way?

[Trogdor]

15 hours ago, Logic said:

Yes.

 

Moss and Singletary will be the primary ball carriers this year, and will be effective. 
 

Giving up on third round picks after two seasons hasn’t been the M.O. of this front office. PARTICULARLY when the player showed a lot of promise in one of those years.

 

Motor gonna prove some people wrong this year, methinks.

I'm not sure he showed promise as much as did better that the worst season of rushing I've ever seen. Karlos Williams showed promise, but I wouldn't put Singletary in that category. Personally I'd like to see what Antonio Williams can do. They really want to see their picks make it though, so I expect Ford, Singletary, and Moss get time over more productive players.