NFL announces changes to off-season Combine / Scouting

[Inigo Montoya]

https://www.nfl.com/news/nfl-memo-details-different-format-for-combine-individual-workouts-will-be-held-o

 

The NFL has announced some changes that will make it more difficult for NFL teams to evaluate potential Draft prospects this off season.  This year there will be no East-West Shrine game to showcase underclassmen declaring for the Draft.  The Combine will also be modified this year.  There will be no in person work outs allowed at the Combine by teams.  They will have to conduct in-person workouts during the player's college program Pro Day.  The Combine lasts several days and there is plenty of time for each team to grab a prospect for a face to face meeting.  A college Pro-Day is...one day.  Going to be hard for a team to get any significant  face time with a prospect when two dozen other teams are trying to evaluate them too.

 

No medical evaluations at the Combine this year.  The NFL is looking to have some sort of get together for shared medical evals some time in April, not very long before the Draft.  No in-person psychiatric evals at the Combine.  All of that will need to be done by video conferences.   When you take these changes and also factor in the diminished ability for teams to evaluate college players during the 20-21' college football season do to the decreased number of games played, player opt-outs, and travel restrictions, this year's Draft will end up being more of a roll of the dice than normal.

 

This is another instance where the Bills' institutional stability should provide them with an advantage heading into the Draft.  The Bills were very lucky that they did not have any of their front office personnel poached by other teams.  I think most of us expected to lose a couple of our scouting / player personnel people this season.  Having the Bills' scouting department remain intact, not having to bring in a bunch of new scouts and rebuild that group, should give the Bills an advantage over those franchises who have had turnover this off-season in their front offices.  There are seven new GMs in the NFL this year, and a lot more lower level front office turn over around the League.   Let's hope this stability gives Beane and his crew an advantage for this year's Draft.  

 

Edited February 14, 2021 by Inigo Montoya

[PrimeTime101]

this is going to drive the scouting teams WILD,  you have combine separate from pro-days for a reason.

 

the days are separated because it is a judge of... IS that player having a better day then average or good day?

 

less to compare to.  our stability has little to do with having one less day to make a scout report... also this messes up the scouting report chains out there..   they do scouting report viewing the college year the player has had then it gets kicked up to the person scouting on combine. when the combine scout is done with report the report gets kicked up to pro day scout.

 

This messes up scouting chains at the NFL team level, the media level and to people like us who like to look through all the reports.

 

Now its all on pro day..  what a mess

I must also add it sucks for the players as well.. Normally if they are not ready or well for the first day... ill of for what ever reasons they can make it up... Sorry this is just so dumb

[Augie]

This offseason hurts every team, but it hurts the best run organizations the least. That means it can actually be an advantage, since I sincerely believe we have a top level front office and top scouts. 

[LABILLBACKER]

Because of us being right up against the cap we can't afford a bad draft this year. No Maybins or McCargos.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, Inigo Montoya said:

https://www.nfl.com/news/nfl-memo-details-different-format-for-combine-individual-workouts-will-be-held-o

 

The NFL has announced some changes that will make it more difficult for NFL teams to evaluate potential Draft prospects this off season.  This year there will be no East-West Shrine game to showcase underclassmen declaring for the Draft.  The Combine will also be modified this year.  There will be no in person work outs allowed at the Combine by teams.  They will have to conduct in-person workouts during the player's college program Pro Day.  The Combine lasts several days and there is plenty of time for each team to grab a prospect for a face to face meeting.  A college Pro-Day is...one day.  Going to be hard for a team to get any significant  face time with a prospect when two dozen other teams are trying to evaluate them too.

 

No medical evaluations at the Combine this year.  The NFL is looking to have some sort of get together for shared medical evals some time in April, not very long before the Draft.  No in-person psychiatric evals at the Combine.  All of that will need to be done by video conferences.   When you take these changes and also factor in the diminished ability for teams to evaluate college players during the 20-21' college football season do to the decreased number of games played, player opt-outs, and travel restrictions, this year's Draft will end up being more of a roll of the dice than normal.

 

This is another instance where the Bills' institutional stability should provide them with an advantage heading into the Draft.  The Bills were very lucky that they did not have any of their front office personnel poached by other teams.  I think most of us expected to lose a couple of our scouting / player personnel people this season.  Having the Bills' scouting department remain intact, not having to bring in a bunch of new scouts and rebuild that group, should give the Bills an advantage over those franchises who have had turnover this off-season in their front offices.  There are seven new GMs in the NFL this year, and a lot more lower level front office turn over around the League.   Let's hope this stability gives Beane and his crew an advantage for this year's Draft.  

 

 

You may have alluded to it and I missed it - Beane touched on a lot of these in his post-season presser if anyone is interested - but IIRC he said teams would not be allowed to bring prospects into their facilities this season either. 

 

 

[Virgil]

I’m glad we have our quarterback.  It’s got to be a lot tougher on those teams in this new method 

[Richard Noggin]

Just now, RunJoshRun said:

When it comes to crunch time next year against the Bucs, Titans & Chiefs all on the ROAD are you totally positive we have our QB?  I wonder?

 

Are you suggesting that perhaps we don't? If you are, then by all means, state your case. We've got time to discuss it before Allen is back on the field. But nobody's got time for ambiguity (best case) or trollish teasers (worst case).  

[BillsShredder83]

4 hours ago, Augie said:

This offseason hurts every team, but it hurts the best run organizations the least. That means it can actually be an advantage, since I sincerely believe we have a top level front office and top scouts. 

Yep, might mean someone slips to us that wouldn't normally be there... especially bc generally the worst FIS are picking towards the top. Every advantage plays to teams that have their **** together! 

[GunnerBill]

4 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

You may have alluded to it and I missed it - Beane touched on a lot of these in his post-season presser if anyone is interested - but IIRC he said teams would not be allowed to bring prospects into their facilities this season either. 

 

Matt Miller also had Bills south east area scout AJ Highsmith on his new podcast recently. Was a really good interview and among other things he talked about the challenges of the scouting process this year. You can tell he has been indoctrinated with a healthy dose of the process, what I took away from it was "it's different, there are some challenges, but we can still do our job so no excuses." 

[machine gun kelly]

9 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Because of us being right up against the cap we can't afford a bad draft this year. No Maybins or McCargos.

Wrong GM’s LA.  In Beane we trust.  It does concern me on the medical amd psych. Evals.  Doctors throughout this country are performing their tasks with more precautions.  I know Inigo you said something about April, but this is the most troubling.  You get most of what you need by scouting tape more than a 40 time.  They are nice to have, but seeing these guys play for two years will tell you more.  

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

 

Some will find a way...

Edited February 14, 2021 by Ridgewaycynic2013

[OldTimer1960]

3 hours ago, machine gun kelly said:

Wrong GM’s LA.  In Beane we trust.  It does concern me on the medical amd psych. Evals.  Doctors throughout this country are performing their tasks with more precautions.  I know Inigo you said something about April, but this is the most troubling.  You get most of what you need by scouting tape more than a 40 time.  They are nice to have, but seeing these guys play for two years will tell you more.  

40 times, in particular, are more valuable for players coming from lower level of competition where they may appear fast vs the lower competition, but not be particularly fast by major college/NFL standards.  For guys at the top colleges playing against top colleges, the game tape should pretty well tell you their speed.
 

[bills6969]

I mean how many people are actually in attendance at the combine? I think there’s 330 players plus 100 or so coaches and staff plus some people coordinating the event , so maybe 500 total?  They can’t do testing of these people and form a bubble for the week?

[Solomon Grundy]

13 hours ago, PrimeTime101 said:

this is going to drive the scouting teams WILD,  you have combine separate from pro-days for a reason.

 

the days are separated because it is a judge of... IS that player having a better day then average or good day?

 

less to compare to.  our stability has little to do with having one less day to make a scout report... also this messes up the scouting report chains out there..   they do scouting report viewing the college year the player has had then it gets kicked up to the person scouting on combine. when the combine scout is done with report the report gets kicked up to pro day scout.

 

This messes up scouting chains at the NFL team level, the media level and to people like us who like to look through all the reports.

 

Now its all on pro day..  what a mess

I must also add it sucks for the players as well.. Normally if they are not ready or well for the first day... ill of for what ever reasons they can make it up... Sorry this is just so dumb

Personally I'm ok with this. This will prevent the Aaron Maybins/Mike Mamulas. Scouts will have to rely on the tape without being influenced by the workout wonders at the combine. Interviews can be done by Zoom. I'm ALL about the tape!! To quote a legend "tape don't lie"

[Inigo Montoya]

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/12/12/brandon-beane-reflects-on-drafting-josh-allen-when-many-had-doubts/

 

https://buffalonews.com/sports/bills/how-the-bills-front-office-arrived-on-josh-allen-as-the-teams-franchise-qb/article_013c597a-2b90-54d2-b964-3dc60895cf04.html

 

I remembered reading articles about all of the evaluation that went into the Bills drafting Josh Allen in 2018.  If the NFL had this year's restrictions on scouting in 2018, I don't know if the Bills draft Josh Allen.  The entire front office met with Josh repeatedly, including the Pegulas, before they finally became comfortable enough to make him their selection on Draft day.  For players like Josh who don't have an elite pedigree coming out of college, they are not going to have the opportunity to showcase themselves this off season like in years past.  More importantly, front offices will be be ham strung in their ability to do a thorough vetting of players who are on the bubble like Josh was. 

 

As @Virgil noted above, it's nice to already have our franchise QB in the fold.  I wouldn't want to be a team looking to find their franchise QB this year.  Lawrence at #1 is easy, after that, things get a bit more dicey.

 

Edited February 14, 2021 by Inigo Montoya

[PrimeTime101]

31 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

Personally I'm ok with this. This will prevent the Aaron Maybins/Mike Mamulas. Scouts will have to rely on the tape without being influenced by the workout wonders at the combine. Interviews can be done by Zoom. I'm ALL about the tape!! To quote a legend "tape don't lie"

nonono... This is going to create more Aaron Maybins.. you think they already don't look at what they do at the college level? this is silliness... 

[PrimeTime101]

13 hours ago, Augie said:

This offseason hurts every team, but it hurts the best run organizations the least. That means it can actually be an advantage, since I sincerely believe we have a top level front office and top scouts. 

yea I have to disagree with this one... How a team is run, goes through its daily business from now to the draft has 0 to do with "best run organizations" because everything has changed. the combine and pro day is separate for smart reasons and now no matter what organization or how good or bad it is has to change the process of how they go about scouting these players from the independent scouts to team scouts and all the way up the chain to the GM level.

 

This doesn't make the job of the organization easier by any means. improvement variables between their last game to combine to pro day is gone.

 

as stated earlier in the thread the only good thing about it is every team has to go through this hell this year of figuring out where players ranked based now purely on college level and where they at right now.

 

this will be just as hard for everyone...  wont be easier just cause a specific team is a well oiled machine...

[Solomon Grundy]

11 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

nonono... This is going to create more Aaron Maybins.. you think they already don't look at what they do at the college level? this is silliness...  

 

There is nothing in this clip that justifies him going at 11. Sounds like, to me, that Mike Mayock is saying the Bills were enamored with his measurements at the combine and thought they could make something out of him. 

[PrimeTime101]

3 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

 

There is nothing in this clip that justifies him going at 11. Sounds like, to me, that Mike Mayock is saying the Bills were enamored with his measurements at the combine and thought they could make something out of him. 

answer my question.. Do you think they don't already highly study NFL film? I am not saying Maybin is a good pick but I think your missing the point I am getting att..  there was more video on him then 1 minute 9 seconds or less...  NE has had horrible picks to.. how good is their organization?

[Solomon Grundy]

6 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

answer my question.. Do you think they don't already highly study NFL film? I am not saying Maybin is a good pick but I think your missing the point I am getting att..  there was more video on him then 1 minute 9 seconds or less...  NE has had horrible picks to.. how good is their organization?

I think they saw his speed/potential on tape. Saw his size at combine and thought they could make him into something. Same thing with EJ Manuel, except EJ tape was better

Edited February 14, 2021 by Solomon Grundy

[Punching Bag]

4 hours ago, machine gun kelly said:

Wrong GM’s LA.  In Beane we trust.  It does concern me on the medical amd psych. Evals.  Doctors throughout this country are performing their tasks with more precautions.  I know Inigo you said something about April, but this is the most troubling.  You get most of what you need by scouting tape more than a 40 time.  They are nice to have, but seeing these guys play for two years will tell you more.  

 

If it is a doctor chosen by player the doctor may gloss over some items of potential player.

 

My wife is a manager and has an employee who is out of work on medical leave on different issues most of the year unable to work.  Part time workers get medical insurance. She has the job so she can provide medical insurance to her family for her husband has some kind of business.  Thing is despite her not being able to work at her school job she is able to work at the other job.  A college player who has a lot more to gain can doctor shop to get report he wants; might be able to get reference from one of the players in NFL that does it.

[clayboy54]

Best plan is to trade away all the picks. That way you can’t make a bad choice and you get some guys you know will produce. Another plus is it will eliminate the clowns from second guessing your picks.

Edited February 14, 2021 by clayboy54

[PrimeTime101]

5 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

I think they saw his speed/potential on tape. Saw his size at combine and thought they could make him into something. Same thing with EJ Manuel, except EJ tape was better

you said it though.. everything in this league is about potential and how high right? the problem with the Maybin pick is he had a horrible floor... which is why it made it a bad pick at the time. Many also thought the 3-4 system at the time was bad for him and had a hand it ruining any progress he might of made.

 

My whole point is... Just cause your a well oiled machine does not mean we will have an easier time with this system then any other team

 

1 minute ago, clayboy54 said:

Best plan is to trade away all the picks. That way you can’t make a bad choice and you get some guys you know will produce. Another plus is it will eliminate the clowns from second guessing your picks.

clowns second guess everything I think most of us on these boards second guess picks I guess we are all clowns lol

[NoHuddleKelly12]

On 2/13/2021 at 9:27 PM, LABILLBACKER said:

Because of us being right up against the cap we can't afford a bad draft this year. No Maybins or McCargos.

Thanks for the cold chills I didn’t need!! And those picks were made with the “benefit” of normal pre-draft due diligence...

[Richard Noggin]

13 hours ago, Solomon Grundy said:

I think they saw his speed/potential on tape. Saw his size at combine and thought they could make him into something. Same thing with EJ Manuel, except EJ tape was better

 

He had some intriguing length (35.25" arms) and straight-line speed (90+ percentiles at the combine for the 40 and his splits) and explosion (solid vert and broad jumps). But his 3-cone, bench, and body weight (at the combine) were abysmal (29th, 43rd, and 12th percentiles among DEs) and his shuttle wasn't very good either (66%). https://nflcombineresults.com/playerpage.php?i=8287 

 

So he was a lean, twitchy tweener with very tight hips and not a lot of tape. As they said in the youtube clip provided: possibly just a one-down pass rusher. Such a forced, need-based reach. 

 

I think we (not exactly me, but a number of you) now know definitively (with respect to testing) which numbers tend to translate best to EDGE success in the NFL. And it ain't just sprinting and jumping in shorts. Pretty sure 3-cone and shuttle are high on the list. Who among you can share that particular grading scale with us? I know some of you know what I'm talking about...

 

Not sure how this helps further the discussion of scouting prospects in 2021. Shrug.

[Thurman#1]

19 hours ago, PrimeTime101 said:

yea I have to disagree with this one... How a team is run, goes through its daily business from now to the draft has 0 to do with "best run organizations" because everything has changed. the combine and pro day is separate for smart reasons and now no matter what organization or how good or bad it is has to change the process of how they go about scouting these players from the independent scouts to team scouts and all the way up the chain to the GM level.

 

This doesn't make the job of the organization easier by any means. improvement variables between their last game to combine to pro day is gone.

 

as stated earlier in the thread the only good thing about it is every team has to go through this hell this year of figuring out where players ranked based now purely on college level and where they at right now.

 

this will be just as hard for everyone...  wont be easier just cause a specific team is a well oiled machine...

 

 

No, just the opposite.

 

The best-run teams don't find a way to do things and then settle down and never change.

 

They're in a constant state of self-evaluation and adaptation. They're adapting to changing conditions and to their own successes and mistakes and what those can teach them about themselves.

 

It is exactly the best-run teams who will succeed best in this new environment.

 

You're certainly right when you say this doesn't make things easier. Correct. It makes things harder. But difficult situations are exactly when organizations that are run well show themselves as excellent.

 

The best teams are precisely those that adapt best to changes and situations. Make it harder to adapt to situations ... and the teams that are best at it will be more successful.

Edited February 15, 2021 by Thurman#1

[thenorthremembers]

7 hours ago, Richard Noggin said:

 

He had some intriguing length (35.25" arms) and straight-line speed (90+ percentiles at the combine for the 40 and his splits) and explosion (solid vert and broad jumps). But his 3-cone, bench, and body weight (at the combine) were abysmal (29th, 43rd, and 12th percentiles among DEs) and his shuttle wasn't very good either (66%). https://nflcombineresults.com/playerpage.php?i=8287 

 

So he was a lean, twitchy tweener with very tight hips and not a lot of tape. As they said in the youtube clip provided: possibly just a one-down pass rusher. Such a forced, need-based reach. 

 

I think we (not exactly me, but a number of you) now know definitively (with respect to testing) which numbers tend to translate best to EDGE success in the NFL. And it ain't just sprinting and jumping in shorts. Pretty sure 3-cone and shuttle are high on the list. Who among you can share that particular grading scale with us? I know some of you know what I'm talking about...

 

Not sure how this helps further the discussion of scouting prospects in 2021. Shrug.

Outside of the measureables, I dont know how someone could sit down and talk with Aaron Maybin for more than 10 minutes and not think drafting him was a horrible idea.  

[PrimeTime101]

5 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

No, just the opposite.

 

The best-run teams don't find a way to do things and then settle down and never change.

 

They're in a constant state of self-evaluation and adaptation. They're adapting to changing conditions and to their own successes and mistakes and what those can teach them about themselves.

 

It is exactly the best-run teams who will succeed best in this new environment.

 

You're certainly right when you say this doesn't make things easier. Correct. It makes things harder. But difficult situations are exactly when organizations that are run well show themselves as excellent.

 

The best teams are precisely those that adapt best to changes and situations. Make it harder to adapt to situations ... and the teams that are best at it will be more successful.

fair enough

[K-9]

Most of the nuts and bolts scouting work has already been completed and grades and rankings largely compiled. The biggest negatives to the new protocols are lack of medical evals and in-person interviews. 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

On 2/13/2021 at 8:20 PM, Inigo Montoya said:

https://www.nfl.com/news/nfl-memo-details-different-format-for-combine-individual-workouts-will-be-held-o

 

The NFL has announced some changes that will make it more difficult for NFL teams to evaluate potential Draft prospects this off season.  This year there will be no East-West Shrine game to showcase underclassmen declaring for the Draft.  The Combine will also be modified this year.  There will be no in person work outs allowed at the Combine by teams.  They will have to conduct in-person workouts during the player's college program Pro Day.  The Combine lasts several days and there is plenty of time for each team to grab a prospect for a face to face meeting.  A college Pro-Day is...one day.  Going to be hard for a team to get any significant  face time with a prospect when two dozen other teams are trying to evaluate them too.

 

No medical evaluations at the Combine this year.  The NFL is looking to have some sort of get together for shared medical evals some time in April, not very long before the Draft.  No in-person psychiatric evals at the Combine.  All of that will need to be done by video conferences.   When you take these changes and also factor in the diminished ability for teams to evaluate college players during the 20-21' college football season do to the decreased number of games played, player opt-outs, and travel restrictions, this year's Draft will end up being more of a roll of the dice than normal.

 

This is another instance where the Bills' institutional stability should provide them with an advantage heading into the Draft.  The Bills were very lucky that they did not have any of their front office personnel poached by other teams.  I think most of us expected to lose a couple of our scouting / player personnel people this season.  Having the Bills' scouting department remain intact, not having to bring in a bunch of new scouts and rebuild that group, should give the Bills an advantage over those franchises who have had turnover this off-season in their front offices.  There are seven new GMs in the NFL this year, and a lot more lower level front office turn over around the League.   Let's hope this stability gives Beane and his crew an advantage for this year's Draft.  

 

 

So reading all this, is this anything different than what seemed to be announced 3 to 4 weeks ago?

[Nextmanup]

On 2/14/2021 at 11:30 AM, clayboy54 said:

Best plan is to trade away all the picks. That way you can’t make a bad choice and you get some guys you know will produce. Another plus is it will eliminate the clowns from second guessing your picks.

Actually, the team sort of did precisely this when it made its best acquisition in 2 decades with Diggs.

 

Rather than sink considerable assets into a guess of a draft pick, they redirected those assets to a proven commodity and improved the team immensely outside of the draft process.

 

 

[Punching Bag]

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2021-nfl-draft-here-are-4-ways-not-having-the-combine-will-affect-prospects-and-evaluators/

1. And be ready for some INSANE times and measurements. It's been difficult to trust pro days because of their exaggerating tendencies. 
2. But the combine always unearths more NFL-caliber talents who played at lower levels in college. 
3. But instances do arise when a prospect tests too poorly to be seriously considered a top-tier prospect or, unfortunately, even an NFL prospect at all.
4. In most cases, watching film, and, not overcomplicating things, works damn well.

 

[Southern_Bills]

Good teams will get better, bad teams who go for shiny objects that are too good to be true will get worse. Not that complicated, it's why the same teams pick in the top 10 every year.

 

Bills had the number 11 pick how many years? Yeah, they were a bad team then.

[Mr. K]

Beane has earned the trust from me as far as scouting/drafting goes. Film doesn't hide technique which I think it more of what our guys look at. That being said I won't be shocked by the record breaking pro days and I think OP nailed that.