Super Bowl Game Thread: Kansas City at Tampa Bay 6:30 Eastern on CBS

[Rico]

3 minutes ago, gobills404 said:

I love all the Chiefs fans on their board blaming the refs like their offense didn't score 9 points.

Let's see the 1st 2 threads:

This sh*t was rigged

 

I no longer want to be alive

 

[Figster]

7 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

weird. You would think they could adjust to what the Bucs were doing. I am not sure there was anything confusing about it. 

 Keep it simple, work the underneath, screens, dump the ball off to the RB. Soften up the Chiefs D. Everything Buffalo should have done. Perhaps could have done with a better run game. Tampa had Buffalo to look at and say this is everything we are not going to do against the Chiefs. Brady's no dummy.

[Michael1962]

Now Nick W. can  find a KC Super bowl champs shirt in Africa.

[GETTOTHE50]

2 minutes ago, syhuang said:

Needed this after the sad end for our bills 

[dave mcbride]

9 minutes ago, BaaadThingsMan said:

Bad calls aside, I underestimated the Bucs D. They held Kelce and Hill in check and Mahomes had no answers all night. 

In 2019, they were #2 overall according to Football Outsiders’ defensive DVOA metric despite giving up a TON of points. The reason? Jameis Winston not only set a record for pick sixes, he threw picks and fumbled in his own end at a crazily high rate (and along with 30 picks Winston had a ton of fumbles too—12 total) . Most of those turnovers that occurred in their own end turned into points for the other team, and it wasn’t the Bucs’ D’s fault. Bottom line—Winston was terrible, and it had a huge impact on TB’s defensive numbers.

Edited February 8, 2021 by dave mcbride

[BaaadThingsMan]

1 minute ago, dave mcbride said:

They were #2 overall according to Football Outsiders defensive DVOA metric despite giving upa TON of points. The reason? Jameis Winston not only set a record for pick sixes, he threw picks and fumbled in his own end at a crazily high rate (and along with 30 picks Winston had a ton of fumbles too—12 total) . Most of those turnovers that occurred in their own end turned into points for the other team, and it wasn’t the Bucs’ D’s fault. Bottom line—Winston was terrible, and it had a huge impact on TB’s defensive numbers.

I shouldn't be surprised, they played well all year I guess I just expected KC to keep scoring a ton but like Reid, I was surprised.

[QLBillsFan]

1 hour ago, QLBillsFan said:

KC played best game in past 8 against Bills. We are much closer than many suggest. G who can run block, 2 edge players, speed TE. KC will struggle with this loss. They had bad calls but quit. 

And you disagree apparently...

[BADOLBILZ]

15 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

The reffing in the first half was objectively terrible, but KC was awful in the second half and deserved to lose. KC’s backup OTs looked like high school players — “Ole!” On every other play. For the first time in a long time, the SB was a terrible game. My broader take: the NFL certainly didn’t “fix” the game, but I suspect the last thing they wanted was Andy Reid winning after a (plausible) narrative emerged in which he enabled his idiot son (to the point of employing him despite no visible qualifications), who was responsible for a genuine human tragedy because of his recklessness. 

 

 

You know that I don't blame officiating..........and the officiating was terrible simply because the league entirely changed how they were calling plays in the secondary to the great detriment of the grabby, chippy Chiefs..........but I think KC compounded the issue by losing their composure.   They expended a lot on their outrage and looked gas after halftime.  For the first time, the Chiefs really paid for having a unit full of low character individuals.     

[dave mcbride]

Just now, BaaadThingsMan said:

I shouldn't be surprised, they played well all year I guess I just expected KC to keep scoring a ton but like Reid, I was surprised.

Just to be clear, i was talking about last year (see my edit of that post if you’re interested). The larger point is that they have a TON of physical talent.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

29 minutes ago, Ya Digg? said:

There was literally not a single bad call by the refs in the first half. Each KC penalty was blatant and an easy call for them to make 

 

Mmmm...I thought that one PI was iffy.  But for the most part, agree. 

 

The problem is, not any different than the crap the refs have been keeping their laundry in their pockets for other games - most recently, AFC championship game.

 

Consistent reffing is a huge problem to the perceived integrity of the league IMO.

 

22 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

 

Wow

[dave mcbride]

1 minute ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

You know that I don't blame officiating..........and the officiating was terrible simply because the league entirely changed how they were calling plays in the secondary to the great detriment of the grabby, chippy Chiefs..........but I think KC compounded the issue by losing their composure.   They expended a lot on their outrage and looked gas after halftime.  For the first time, the Chiefs really paid for having a unit full of low character individuals.     

Excellent point ... but the Bucs have an inordinate number of low character individuals too!

[BaaadThingsMan]

1 minute ago, dave mcbride said:

Just to be clear, i was talking about last year (see my edit of that post if you’re interested). The larger point is that they have a TON of physical talent.

Yeah , I noticed that. They bailed Brady out a ton this year too but tonight just had the upper hand from the get. Winfield Jr is gonna be a good one!!

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

You know that I don't blame officiating..........and the officiating was terrible simply because the league entirely changed how they were calling plays in the secondary to the great detriment of the grabby, chippy Chiefs..........but I think KC compounded the issue by losing their composure.   They expended a lot on their outrage and looked gas after halftime.  For the first time, the Chiefs really paid for having a unit full of low character individuals.     

 

Exactly - or to word it a bit differently, objectively the refs in the first half correctly identified and penalized fouls - but the Chiefs have been committing similar fouls without penalty including 2 weeks ago.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

34 minutes ago, syhuang said:

 

 

No comment.

 

 

[dave mcbride]

4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Exactly - or to word it a bit differently, objectively the refs in the first half correctly identified and penalized fouls - but the Chiefs have been committing similar fouls without penalty including 2 weeks ago.

The one thing I’ll push back against is the PI in the end zone. Brady threw that away (it hit the wall well beyond the EZ) and wasn’t remotely catchable. It’s not even really arguable, and it was a huge play.

Edited February 8, 2021 by dave mcbride

[Hapless Bills Fan]

16 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

In 2019, they were #2 overall according to Football Outsiders’ defensive DVOA metric despite giving up a TON of points. The reason? Jameis Winston not only set a record for pick sixes, he threw picks and fumbled in his own end at a crazily high rate (and along with 30 picks Winston had a ton of fumbles too—12 total) . Most of those turnovers that occurred in their own end turned into points for the other team, and it wasn’t the Bucs’ D’s fault. Bottom line—Winston was terrible, and it had a huge impact on TB’s defensive numbers.

 

Exactly.  Tampa Bay has had a very good D last year.  They were consistently put in a bad spot by their offense.

 

Tom Brady didn't sign with Tampa Bay because they were rebuilding, he signed there because he thought he could be the "missing link" to take them to a championship.  And he was right!

 

4 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

The one thing I’ll push back against is the PI in the end zone. Brady threw that away (it hit the wall well beyond the EZ) and wasn’t remotely catchable. It’s not even really arguable, and it was a huge play.

 

I agree - I said above in response to @Ya Digg? that I thought that one PI call was "a bit iffy" which was understatement on my part.  But in general, I thought the refs were calling legit penalties, it just took KC by surprise because 2 weeks ago the same plays were NOT penalties, including an unsportsmanlike on Chris Jones.

[Rocky Landing]

Some of the credit for the Bucs' win should go to the Chiefs' O-line, and their RT in particular. 

[mead107]

Chiefs not good 

 

[stevewin]

Imagine how many 30 yd sacks and hot garbage plays Mahomes would have had if you put him on the Bills of Josh's rookie year.  There is zero doubt his whole trajectory would have gone very very differently.

[dave mcbride]

3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Exactly.  Tampa Bay has had a very good D last year.  They were consistently put in a bad spot by their offense.

 

Tom Brady didn't sign with Tampa Bay because they were rebuilding, he signed there because he thought he could be the "missing link" to take them to a championship.  And he was right!

 

 

I agree - I said above in response to @Ya Digg? that I thought that one PI call was "a bit iffy" which was understatement on my part.  But in general, I thought the refs were calling legit penalties, it just took KC by surprise because 2 weeks ago the same plays were NOT penalties, including an unsportsmanlike on Chris Jones.

Agreed, but with regard to Jones, it’s on the refs to pay attention to attempts to aggro him given the history. Christ, Feliciano did it, and Jensen tonight was even more blatant. He retaliated, but the refs have to do better. I have no love for Chris Jones, but I do expect SB refs to have informed situational awareness.

[KOKBILLS]

5 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

Some of the credit for the Bucs' win should go to the Chiefs' O-line, and their RT in particular. 

 

I honestly can't remember a game where I've seen so much immediate pressure as I did tonight. And I've been a Bills fan for 50 years...

 

If that was not Mahomes back there, or someone with similar mobility, they could have had 20 sacks! It was insane...

[dave mcbride]

1 minute ago, KOKBILLS said:

 

I honestly can't remember a game where I've seen so much immediate pressure as I did tonight. And I've been a Bills fan for 50 years...

 

If that was not Mahomes back there, or someone with similar mobility, they could have had 20 sacks! It was insane...

Agreed. A normal qb would have been sacked 12 times. KC went in with a garbage o-line, and it showed. Eric Fisher takes heat because of how high he was drafted but he is genuinely good. The replacement tonight (Remmers) was a matador, as was the RT replacement.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

29 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Exactly - or to word it a bit differently, objectively the refs in the first half correctly identified and penalized fouls - but the Chiefs have been committing similar fouls without penalty including 2 weeks ago.

The refs missed many offensive holding calls on the chiefs as well

[WideNine]

16 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Agreed. A normal qb would have been sacked 12 times. KC went in with a garbage o-line, and it showed. Eric Fisher takes heat because of how high he was drafted but he is genuinely good. The replacement tonight (Remmers) was a matador, as was the RT replacement.

 

The other reason those tackles looked like suck is KC could not give them a lot of help because TB's interior DTs have to be double teamed. I think Suh is a POS, but a good article on the value of interior DT's that can stop the run and pressure the passer.

 

https://www.buccaneers.com/news/defense-interior-importance-against-kansas-city-sblv-media-day-ndamukong-suh

 

"Mahomes has the second-best completion percentage against the blitz in 2020, including the postseason, at 68.4%. His 9.5 yards per attempt, 15-0 touchdown to interception ratio and 135.3 passer rating against the blitz rank first. Yeah, Mahomes has a 135.3 passer rating when he sees five or more guys in his face.

 

And the Bucs know that. Even back in Week 12, they only blitzed Mahomes on 17% of his dropbacks, which was the lowest rate in a game under Bowles since he arrived in 2019.

 

But while Mahomes is good against the blitz – he's not as good against pressure. Again, making the distinction between blitzing and pressure. They are not one in the same. Under pressure, Mahomes has a completion percentage of just 48.0%. His passing yards per attempt goes down to 6.3. He's got a 5-1 touchdown to interception rate and his passer rating is down from 116.4 when not facing pressure to 78.7 when he is. Ten of Mahomes' 25 interceptions since 2018 have come against pressure.

 

So clearly, you need to pressure him. But maybe not blitz him…

 

Which is again why a four-man rush that can generate pressure will be so crucial against the Chiefs. The good news is that said four-man rush will now also be helped by nose tackle Vita Vea, who returned against the Packers after a 15-week absence due to a broken ankle. He played 46% of the team's defensive snaps in his first game back and had his presence felt, especially against the run, and in a couple of those sacks stolen by JPP and Barrett. The Bucs are simply a better team with Vea on the field and the Next Gen Stats back that up.

 

Against the run when Vea is on the field the Bucs give up an average of just 2.7 yards per carry. When he isn't, it jumps up to 3.9 yards per carry. Against the pass, the Bucs had a 32.7% quarterback pressure rate and a 10.5% sack rate in 153 dropbacks with Vea on the field. Without Vea, the Bucs have a 26.0% quarterback pressure rate and a 5.9% sack rate. That's a huge difference."

 

 

 

Edited February 8, 2021 by WideNine

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

The refs missed many offensive holding calls on the chiefs as well

 

This game, or vs. us?

 

Overall, the league has been calling a lot less offensive holding this season.  But yeah, they were taking it to the extreme.

[GoBills808]

26 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Agreed, but with regard to Jones, it’s on the refs to pay attention to attempts to aggro him given the history. Christ, Feliciano did it, and Jensen tonight was even more blatant. He retaliated, but the refs have to do better. I have no love for Chris Jones, but I do expect SB refs to have informed situational awareness.

Feliciano did what? 

[dave mcbride]

3 minutes ago, WideNine said:

 

The other reason those tackles looked like suck is KC could not give them a lot of help because TB's interior DTs have to be double teamed. I think Suh is a POS, but a good article on the value of interior DT's that can stop the run and pressure the passer.

 

https://www.buccaneers.com/news/defense-interior-importance-against-kansas-city-sblv-media-day-ndamukong-suh

 

"Mahomes has the second-best completion percentage against the blitz in 2020, including the postseason, at 68.4%. His 9.5 yards per attempt, 15-0 touchdown to interception ratio and 135.3 passer rating against the blitz rank first. Yeah, Mahomes has a 135.3 passer rating when he sees five or more guys in his face.

 

And the Bucs know that. Even back in Week 12, they only blitzed Mahomes on 17% of his dropbacks, which was the lowest rate in a game under Bowles since he arrived in 2019.

 

But while Mahomes is good against the blitz – he's not as good against pressure. Again, making the distinction between blitzing and pressure. They are not one in the same. Under pressure, Mahomes has a completion percentage of just 48.0%. His passing yards per attempt goes down to 6.3. He's got a 5-1 touchdown to interception rate and his passer rating is down from 116.4 when not facing pressure to 78.7 when he is. Ten of Mahomes' 25 interceptions since 2018 have come against pressure.

 

So clearly, you need to pressure him. But maybe not blitz him…

 

Which is again why a four-man rush that can generate pressure will be so crucial against the Chiefs. The good news is that said four-man rush will now also be helped by nose tackle Vita Vea, who returned against the Packers after a 15-week absence due to a broken ankle. He played 46% of the team's defensive snaps in his first game back and had his presence felt, especially against the run, and in a couple of those sacks stolen by JPP and Barrett. The Bucs are simply a better team with Vea on the field and the Next Gen Stats back that up.

 

Against the run when Vea is on the field the Bucs give up an average of just 2.7 yards per carry. When he isn't, it jumps up to 3.9 yards per carry. Against the pass, the Bucs had a 32.7% quarterback pressure rate and a 10.5% sack rate in 153 dropbacks with Vea on the field. Without Vea, the Bucs have a 26.0% quarterback pressure rate and a 5.9% sack rate. That's a huge difference."

 

 

 

Great post. Going back to his Miami days when he regularly stoned the Bills o-linemen, I have long felt that Suh had shockingly become one of the most underrated players in the league. He is a force out there—still extremely difficult to handle one on one.

[BADOLBILZ]

16 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Agreed. A normal qb would have been sacked 12 times. KC went in with a garbage o-line, and it showed. Eric Fisher takes heat because of how high he was drafted but he is genuinely good. The replacement tonight (Remmers) was a matador, as was the RT replacement.

 

 

Mike Remmers might have cemented his place as the career worst performer in SB history IMO.     Between single handedly costing the Panthers a SB with his work against Von Miller and the absolutely atrocious job he did today.......just unbelievable.   I don't know whether to feel sorry for the guy or for us having to watch such a terrible player greatly impact two SB's now.    

[dave mcbride]

13 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

This game, or vs. us?

 

Overall, the league has been calling a lot less offensive holding this season.  But yeah, they were taking it to the extreme.

He had a sneaky-dirty hit after the whistle on the bills’ first possession that set Jones off, and then he later delivered what looked to be a kidney punch (judging from the video) that caused jones to retaliate. I don’t fault feliciano - they were trying to get to the SB and the book was out that you could aggro jones  into doing something stupid. He had been ejected earlier in the season for retaliating. On that play, the refs just missed the retaliation, but it was an ejectable offense.

Edited February 8, 2021 by dave mcbride

[WideNine]

Just now, dave mcbride said:

Great post. Going back to his Miami days when he regularly stoned the Bills o-linemen, I have long felt that Suh had shockingly become one of the most underrated players in the league. He is a force out there—still extremely difficult to handle one on one.

 

He is freakishly strong and quick for his size.

 

Was never a fan of his extracurricular plays after the whistle, but cannot deny he was a terror to block one-on-one.

 

 

 

[Norcalbillsfan]

Everyone will talk about Brady, but that bucs D... The way to beat mahomes is to cause pressure but not to blitz him. And the bucs front D owned the cheifs O line, and the young talented bucs LBs covered kelce well and Brady took advantage of bonehead penalties and that's all she wrote. Take note buffalo D line, the cheifs can be dethroned as the kings of AFC.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

10 minutes ago, Norcalbillsfan said:

Everyone will talk about Brady, but that bucs D... The way to beat mahomes is to cause pressure but not to blitz him. And the bucs front D owned the cheifs O line, and the young talented bucs LBs covered kelce well and Brady took advantage of bonehead penalties and that's all she wrote. Take note buffalo D line, the cheifs can be dethroned as the kings of AFC.

 

Absolutely correct.  The Bills struggled mightily to pressure QBs with our front four all season, and it bit us in the butt vs KC.

 

Tom Brady is a great player, there is no doubt.  But if another QB produced his statline of 21 completions on 29 attempts for 201 yds, it might well be tagged as "not enough offense" even with 3 passing TDs and 0 INTs.   He did enough to help his team score 31 points and win, clearly.

 

IMHO the real MVP is undoubtedly the Bucs D.

 

https://nflcdns.nfl.com/liveupdate/gamecenter/58501/TB_Gamebook.pdf

[Norcalbillsfan]

6 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Absolutely correct.  The Bills struggled mightily to pressure QBs with our front four all season, and it bit us in the butt vs KC.

 

Tom Brady is a great player, there is no doubt.  But if another QB produced his statline of 21 completions on 29 attempts for 201 yds, it might well be tagged as "not enough offense" even with 3 passing TDs and 0 INTs.   He did enough to help his team score 31 points and win, clearly.

 

IMHO the real MVP is undoubtedly the Bucs D.

 

https://nflcdns.nfl.com/liveupdate/gamecenter/58501/TB_Gamebook.pdf

Agreed, if any QB had those stats against the cheifs all season thats not enough. But I won't take anything from Brady, he did what he needed and capitalized on that penalty for a td and that felt like the turning point of the game.

[HalftimeAdjustment]

We should work on our OL and DL most of all. TE and RB are nice to have by comparison.

[Logic]

I haven’t spent time in this thread, so I truly don’t know, but...

 

Has anyone heard from @Zerovoltz ? Is he in total shock that Jesus H Mahomes is, in fact, mortal?

[syhuang]

 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

2 hours ago, Norcalbillsfan said:

Everyone will talk about Brady, but that bucs D... The way to beat mahomes is to cause pressure but not to blitz him. And the bucs front D owned the cheifs O line, and the young talented bucs LBs covered kelce well and Brady took advantage of bonehead penalties and that's all she wrote. Take note buffalo D line, the cheifs can be dethroned as the kings of AFC.

Kelce still kind of torched them in my opinion but I agree with most of this...he looked very similar to how he looked against us...always completely wide open.  Tampa did a lot of things similar to us they just had the pass rush working...maybe if we had 4 quarters against the chiefs banged up oline we wouldve fared a little better 

1 hour ago, HalftimeAdjustment said:

We should work on our OL and DL most of all. TE and RB are nice to have by comparison.

I think a great pass catching TE masks a lot of issues...I dont think the chiefs wouldve cracked 100 yards of offense outside of garbage time tonight without kelce.  I think we just played right into the chiefs plan of hanging onto receivers a borderline illegal amount and the league took notice...a running game would be nice though lol id focus on the defensive side first the offense really carried the team all season...the defense stepped up in the big moments most games but it just wasn't enough

[US Egg]

TBMTBGA

[Cray51]

When Brady was screaming at his OC to keep five wide on the field at the end of the first half and proceeded to score because he knew exactly what he wanted to run and how he would capitalize against the Chiefs D.... It was the time where I sat back and just had to appreciate seeing greatness.

 

His OC wanted to change personnel, but Brady has full reign and showed he is the best to ever do it.  And then cements that he was in Mathieu's head by jawing at him.  The game was over.

[JMF2006]

5 hours ago, syhuang said:

 

 

 

He did it at the right time......after the 4th down play when the ball had already changed possession and the game was already decided.

 

Romo hated it.....but I liked it

18 minutes ago, Cray51 said:

When Brady was screaming at his OC to keep five wide on the field at the end of the first half and proceeded to score because he knew exactly what he wanted to run and how he would capitalize against the Chiefs D.... It was the time where I sat back and just had to appreciate seeing greatness.

 

His OC wanted to change personnel, but Brady has full reign and showed he is the best to ever do it.  And then cements that he was in Mathieu's head by jawing at him.  The game was over.

 

I think it was Ty that started jawing first...thats why he got a 15 yarder.

 

Marsha probably just said look at the scoreboard jackwad