DCbillsfan Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 I don't believe the Rams gave up too much. They'll most likely make the playoffs the next 2 years, so their traded first rounds picks will likely be in the mid 20s or so. Plus Goff had a big contract number that needed to be offset. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whkfc Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 14 minutes ago, mannc said: Please look at their passing statistics the last four seasons and explain to me why Stafford is a huge upgrade from Jared Goff... its about perception tickets arent sold during the season the are sold in the offseason hope springs eternal. I never said one was better than the other i said the Rams wanted to make a splash to open thier new stadium to the public. But at the same time look at the supporting casts both have had to work with the last 4 years Stafford has had a much tougher go of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 2 minutes ago, DCbillsfan said: I don't believe the Rams gave up too much. They'll most likely make the playoffs the next 2 years, so their traded first rounds picks will likely be in the mid 20s or so. Plus Goff had a big contract number that needed to be offset. They shouldn't have had to give up any 1st rounders. And even swap should have sufficed. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCOrange Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 17 minutes ago, RangerDave said: What about the GM that gave Goff that horrendous contract? Should they not be a GM? I think part of the trade had to do with the Rams paying penance for giving that contract to Goff (who they obviously did not completely believe in) and trying to rid themselves of that awful sin and the taint that goes with it. Giving Goff that contract was a major mistake too. They should have traded him on his rookie deal when they could have gotten good value from him. Most teams have no capability to think rationally about the QB position. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloRebound Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 17 minutes ago, Doc said: They shouldn't have had to give up any 1st rounders. And even swap should have sufficed. you don’t think the Rams called the at least 10 other teams actively looking QB’s to see what they could get for Goff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 2 minutes ago, DCOrange said: Giving Goff that contract was a major mistake too. They should have traded him on his rookie deal when they could have gotten good value from him. Most teams have no capability to think rationally about the QB position. It's hard to find a good one. If you go back to all the Goff vs Wentz talk it's gone back and forth. Wentz was better and then Goff was better. Both franchise QB's. Now it seems both might not be good enough. Both of those teams made the Super Bowl. When you have a young QB playing good you think you're set, but reality is they've only been good for a year or 2. So many variables can make a QB good for a year or 2. When those change you might find out that you don't really have a good QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 2 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said: you don’t think the Rams called the at least 10 other teams actively looking QB’s to see what they could get for Goff? I think for some reason they wanted Stafford, a guy that other teams were interested in. I also think the relationship between Goff and McVay was broken and Goff just had to be moved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloRebound Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 Just now, mannc said: I think for some reason they wanted Stafford, a guy that other teams were interested in. I also think the relationship between Goff and McVay was broken and Goff just had to be moved. but that has nothing to do with having to send extra picks to include Goff. If somebody else wanted Goff, the Rams would’ve traded less to Detroit and got something in return for Goff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobonators Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 9 minutes ago, DCOrange said: Giving Goff that contract was a major mistake too. They should have traded him on his rookie deal when they could have gotten good value from him. Most teams have no capability to think rationally about the QB position. Goff is 26yrs old. Has been to a SB. Probably wouldve won a SB if it was any other opponent besides TB and BB. Just two years ago he was in the MVP discussion at 24yrs old. The Rams were very rational. Goff is being talked about here like he is Mark Sanchez and Stafford like he just won the SB or MVP. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Joshin' Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 12 hours ago, Nihilarian said: I don't get this at all. At first I thought the reason might be to get the Rams outta cap hell... Current Contract Jared Goff signed a 4 year, $134,000,000 contract with the Los Angeles Rams, including a $25,000,000 signing bonus, $110,042,682 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $33,500,000. Whoa... Stafford signed the five-year deal is worth $135 million with $60.5 million guaranteed. I still don't get it... Stafford kinda stinks... err, well, so does Geoff at times. Lions 5-11, Rams 10-5. Shouldn't the Rams be getting all the picks? The GM should be fired for signing Gift and then fired again for trading Goff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobonators Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 2 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said: but that has nothing to do with having to send extra picks to include Goff. If somebody else wanted Goff, the Rams would’ve traded less to Detroit and got something in return for Goff. It has been reported that other teams made significant offers for Goff. No other team was able to provide a Stafford-type QB however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCbillsfan Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 27 minutes ago, Doc said: They shouldn't have had to give up any 1st rounders. And even swap should have sufficed. Perhaps another team wanted Stafford which drove up the price? We will have to disagree on the trade. I think Stafford is much better than Goff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Vader Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 12 hours ago, Process said: So the Rama are going to go 7 straight years without a first round pick? That is hilarious. And insane. Exactly. Bobby Beathard must be an advisor for the Rams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihilarian Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 So many teams looking for a franchise QB. Falcons...draft? Panthers Bears Cowboys? Dak won't sign for 30+ million per-Trade even up for Watson? Denver Colts... this team might have gone after Stafford hard. Jaguars...draft. Dolphins? Jets? Eagles? Washington? Patriots. So many of them could have been after Stafford and now are looking at Watson. What are the Texans going to ask for Watson if Stafford is worth two firsts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 1 minute ago, bobobonators said: Goff is 26yrs old. Has been to a SB. Probably wouldve won a SB if it was any other opponent besides TB and BB. Just two years ago he was in the MVP discussion at 24yrs old. The Rams were very rational. Goff is being talked about here like he is Mark Sanchez and Stafford like he just won the SB or MVP. He's a QB that needs things perfect around him to be successful. He's had 2 down seasons. If you compare him to Allen, Allen can still be a threat when things go wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloRebound Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 2 minutes ago, bobobonators said: It has been reported that other teams made significant offers for Goff. No other team was able to provide a Stafford-type QB however. the only way that makes any sense is if somebody else was offering 3 first round picks for Stafford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimer1960 Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 13 hours ago, Rc2catch said: Yikes.. I like the move for LA but that’s a lot to give up It is, but those will be pretty late 1st round picks. Let’s assume that both 1st Lund picks are in the 20s - that is roughly equivalent to 1 top-10 1st round pick. And that is even before discounting the 2022 pick by a round as is usually done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 I wish Matt well. I have always liked him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCOrange Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 6 minutes ago, bobobonators said: Goff is 26yrs old. Has been to a SB. Probably wouldve won a SB if it was any other opponent besides TB and BB. Just two years ago he was in the MVP discussion at 24yrs old. The Rams were very rational. Goff is being talked about here like he is Mark Sanchez and Stafford like he just won the SB or MVP. We’ll have to agree to disagree. They knew what they had in Goff, and it was a guy that could succeed if his first read was correct. If anything didn’t go according to plan, it was a lost down. Even before Goff was resigned, all the talk was that it was McVay and the supporting cast making it all work. They ultimately chose Goff at the expense of the supporting cast. Teams need to think more rationally about the QB position. If you’re paying a guy like they’re a top 5 QB when they aren’t actually capable of leading the team themselves, you’re probably not going to be a real contender. The Rams kept themselves afloat by trading all of their first round picks to and carefully structuring the other contracts to try to keep the deck stacked for Goff as much as possible but it still wasn’t enough. Had they traded Goff earlier, they could have gotten at least a first round pick if not multiple firsts, kept the elite run game, elite OLine, continued building up an elite defense, and continue taking more shots at finding a good enough QB on a rookie deal. Cleveland is one of those teams that are now about to be in the same situation that the Rams were in not too long ago. They should talk to Houston about what they’d need to add to Baker in order to do a Baker-Watson swap. Otherwise I think Cleveland will likely plateau like the Rams had these past few years (though to be fair, I do think Baker is a better QB than Goff). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 I think teams are valuing 2021 1st round picks much lower than usual because this draft will be more of a crap shoot. Teams will have to draft players with less college tape, no combine, and limited in person meetings. There will be players that sat out this past year who will be drafted in the 1st round. The sticker shock of this trade and even the Jamal Adams trade isn't as bad when you consider that context. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hsker4life Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 2 minutes ago, HappyDays said: I think teams are valuing 2021 1st round picks much lower than usual because this draft will be more of a crap shoot. Teams will have to draft players with less college tape, no combine, and limited in person meetings. There will be players that sat out this past year who will be drafted in the 1st round. The sticker shock of this trade and even the Jamal Adams trade isn't as bad when you consider that context. But the Rams sent their 2022 and 2023 first round picks... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 15 minutes ago, bobobonators said: Goff is 26yrs old. Has been to a SB. Probably wouldve won a SB if it was any other opponent besides TB and BB. Just two years ago he was in the MVP discussion at 24yrs old. The Rams were very rational. Goff is being talked about here like he is Mark Sanchez and Stafford like he just won the SB or MVP. This. I view them as similar players but Goff has a lot more years left and the Lions can adjust his contract. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihilarian Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 Okay, I get it now. "Why Matthew Stafford will be a franchise-defining bargain for his new NFL team Everything McVay wants to do — passing out of run-heavy sets, play- and run-action, the ability to hit total route concepts all over the field — Stafford is far better at all of this than Goff will ever be. Period, full stop. And the Rams have a $33 million cap hit for Stafford in 2021, and a $26 million cap hit in 2022. Stafford will turn 33 on February" https://www.yahoo.com/sports/why-rams-won-stafford-goff-044505617.html 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 22 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said: but that has nothing to do with having to send extra picks to include Goff. If somebody else wanted Goff, the Rams would’ve traded less to Detroit and got something in return for Goff. Well, obviously there was more of a market for Stafford than for Goff. I’ll be curious to see how both do in different systems. I just don’t think there’s much evidence for the notion that Stafford is better than Goff at this stage of his career. As someone else said upthread, NFL teams are notoriously bad at evaluating QBs—even their own QBs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 (edited) 14 minutes ago, OldTimer1960 said: It is, but those will be pretty late 1st round picks. Let’s assume that both 1st Lund picks are in the 20s - that is roughly equivalent to 1 top-10 1st round pick. And that is even before discounting the 2022 pick by a round as is usually done. 2 late firsts aren’t equal to 1 top 10 pick, unless they are trading them. It’s two first round quality players on 4-5 year rookie deals which is a big part of the value of the draft picks Edited January 31, 2021 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 5 minutes ago, Hsker4life said: But the Rams sent their 2022 and 2023 first round picks... Oh somehow I completely missed that. In that case Detroit absolutely fleeced them. I don't think Stafford is that much better than Goff. He has a similar problem of limited mobility and has never shown he can really elevate the players around him. I think he'll be a little bit of an upgrade but not enough to be worth that cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 1 minute ago, whatdrought said: Seems like a terrible reason to give up a ton of assets for a guy who’s never won squat in 11 seasons in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihilarian Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 "Sometimes, you have to look beyond the obvious to see how things work in the future. The Rams got a much, much, better quarterback at a time when they have everything else they need to contend. The Lions just hamstrung themselves with a supremely limited quarterback at a time when they’re going through a massive rebuild. Draft picks or not, the Rams won this trade in a landslide, and that’s why." https://www.yahoo.com/sports/why-rams-won-stafford-goff-044505617.html 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 3 minutes ago, Nihilarian said: Okay, I get it now. "Why Matthew Stafford will be a franchise-defining bargain for his new NFL team Everything McVay wants to do — passing out of run-heavy sets, play- and run-action, the ability to hit total route concepts all over the field — Stafford is far better at all of this than Goff will ever be. Period, full stop. And the Rams have a $33 million cap hit for Stafford in 2021, and a $26 million cap hit in 2022. Stafford will turn 33 on February" https://www.yahoo.com/sports/why-rams-won-stafford-goff-044505617.html That’s a good, if strongly opinionated, piece. I too agree that wins-losses stats are a terrible measure of Stafford. 1 minute ago, HappyDays said: Oh somehow I completely missed that. In that case Detroit absolutely fleeced them. I don't think Stafford is that much better than Goff. He has a similar problem of limited mobility and has never shown he can really elevate the players around him. I think he'll be a little bit of an upgrade but not enough to be worth that cost. Stafford is gonna surprise a ton of people. Read that yahoo piece linked to above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 3 minutes ago, Nihilarian said: "Sometimes, you have to look beyond the obvious to see how things work in the future. The Rams got a much, much, better quarterback at a time when they have everything else they need to contend. The Lions just hamstrung themselves with a supremely limited quarterback at a time when they’re going through a massive rebuild. Draft picks or not, the Rams won this trade in a landslide, and that’s why." https://www.yahoo.com/sports/why-rams-won-stafford-goff-044505617.html I don’t think the Lions “lost” the trade, it was a win-win for what each team felt they needed at this stage of where they are. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan4 Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 I’ve always been a Stafford fan. I like this trade for LA. I can’t wait to see what stafford does with McVay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 10 minutes ago, Nihilarian said: And the Rams have a $33 million cap hit for Stafford in 2021 Actually only $20 million for them in 2021, Detroit is retaining some of the cap hit. This was definitely a salary cap move as much as a player move. Spotrac is showing the Rams with a $193m roster after this trade. The salary cap is projected to be around $180m so they still have work to do. Goff's cap hit was going to be $34m for them. They needed that $14m difference to even make it possible to get below the salary cap this year. I have no doubt McVay also thinks Stafford will be better in his system but I don't think they would give up this much if they weren't in cap hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBeaneBandit Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 I didn't know trades were allowed before the season was over. Is this a "in principal" agreement? Could the Bills do a trade right now if they wanted? I need enlightenment here lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
97bills Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 14 hours ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said: Lions made out well there Agreed and I don’t think Stafford is that much better then Goff surly not two first better. Now the rams are super bowl or bust the next few years we’ve seen them do this with other players just wow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 5 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: Well... he did play for the Lions. Probably the worst run franchise in the sport. Yup, and again, judging Stafford on wins and losses is a terrible measure. Just look at the organization since the early 1960s: 17 winning seasons, 37 losing seasons, and 4 .500 seasons. And look at their record from 2001-2010. Man. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/det/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 1 minute ago, TheBeaneBandit said: I didn't know trades were allowed before the season was over. Is this a "in principal" agreement? Could the Bills do a trade right now if they wanted? I need enlightenment here lol Yes it is “In principle” and either side can back out prior to it being finalized next month 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 1 minute ago, 97bills said: Agreed and I don’t think Stafford is that much better then Goff surly not two first better. Now the rams are super bowl or bust the next few years we’ve seen them do this with other players just wow He’s more talented and McVay is betting on talent. Betting on talent is the way to go, I think. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaoulDuke79 Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 17 minutes ago, mannc said: Seems like a terrible reason to give up a ton of assets for a guy who’s never won squat in 11 seasons in the NFL. He played in Detroit. What do you expect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 Just now, RaoulDuke79 said: He played in Detroit. What do you expect? He played the most important position on the field for 11 seasons...At what point can we say he was part of the problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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