"Some in the league think Josh Allen has caught Patrick Mahomes", per PFT

[Awwufelloff]

When Allen gets pressured his old garbage mechanics start to flourish themselves. Not a good sign. He also can't take 10-20 yards losses when he gets sacked. Allen isn't close to Mahomes and likely never will be. Mahomes will be a first ballot HOF.

[dave mcbride]

14 minutes ago, Success said:

 

You can't really compare the circumstances. 

 

We didn't really have a pass rush yesterday, and KC did.  Allen was under much more pressure than Mahomes.

 

 

You actually can compare them. One was playing with turf toe — a serious injury because it’s a torn ligament — and the other wasn’t, yet Mahomes outplayed his opponent. Allen is a terrific player — I love him — but Mahomes is another stratosphere. 

Edited January 26, 2021 by dave mcbride

[soflabillsfan1]

I've never seen anyone take so many 20 yard sacks like Josh.  The pressure up the middle was killer.

[Royale with Cheese]

25 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

I didn't see Mahomes run backwards 10 or even 5 yards once last night..... look Allen is great, Mahomes is just way above every other QB.

 

Mahomes is also unbelievably calm no matter the circumstances. Allen was a nervous wreck last night. 

 

It's not hard to be calm when you don't have pressure.

 

But yes, Mahomes is still a level above Allen....a good level above.

[Big Blitz]

1 hour ago, ScottLaw said:

I didn't see Mahomes run backwards 10 or even 5 yards once last night..... look Allen is great, Mahomes is just way above every other QB.

 

Mahomes is also unbelievably calm no matter the circumstances. Allen was a nervous wreck last night. 

 

Nervous wreck is complete nonsense 

 

He was running for his life every other play.  

 

That's on the protection, that's on the game plan, and that's on everyone from Allen to the coaches.  

 

Mahomes looked calm and composed bc they knew exactly what they wanted to do and did it.  He also could have played in a suit.  

 

Allen looked like he did (not nervous, but rather pressing) because nothing was there, and he had pressure on him all night.  

[C.Biscuit97]

The Allen improvement is the most amazing thing I’ve ever seen. It’s insane to write but the guy is a legit top 5ish qb. So insane. However, right now, Mahomes is on another level.

 

but the fact it is not a totally laughable statement, which it was before this year, says so much about what Allen has become. I’m so impressed with the guy. 

[78thealltimegreat]

4 hours ago, Jpsredemption said:

Again it’s not even close. 

From his rookie season Mahomes has been the perfect setup Andy Reid even made a Kevin Kolb a starting NFL QB remember him?  Allen not so much 

[Scott7975]

On 1/24/2021 at 10:06 PM, ScottLaw said:

Knew this thread was ridiculously premature,

 

Mahomes was calm as a cucumber. Allen looked like a nervous wreck for much of the game. 

 

Look at the situation.  Josh was under pressure with blanketed receivers most of the game.  Mahomes faced pretty much no pressure most of the game while Hill and Kelce were 5 yards open every play.  Big difference.

[Scott7975]

4 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

I didn't see Mahomes run backwards 10 or even 5 yards once last night..... look Allen is great, Mahomes is just way above every other QB.

 

Mahomes is also unbelievably calm no matter the circumstances. Allen was a nervous wreck last night. 

Because he didnt have to.  There was no pressure and their receivers were wide open every play.  What don't you understand about that?

[par73]

Allen looked rattled and uncertain--- the Chiefs D definitely knocked him off his game. Threw some inaccurate passes late and high--- could have been picked off twice more. Allen reverted a bit to his old form at times, but protection issues contributed.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

You simply can't make a fair comparison of the two given one has far superior weapons and a coach with a HOF track record as an offensive mastermind. I'm very confident you switch both QB's the Bills still lose the AFC title game. 

 

That said, the NFL is a results oriented business and you can't argue with Mahomes results so he gets the nod until Allen and the Bills find a way to get it done in the postseason.

 

That said, it's certainly not unreasonable for some GM's to consider Allen the better prospect. But Mahomes is the safest and at worst his ceiling is just a tad below Allen's.

 

We should all be encouraged by the fact that on que, Allen delivered big time this season as a bona fide top 5 QB in the league in his very first season with a legitimate all-pro WR. At the same time it's going to be a tough road for the Bills as long as the Chiefs have Hill and Kelce to go along with Mahomes.

[PrimeTime101]

10 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

You simply can't make a fair comparison of the two given one has far superior weapons and a coach with a HOF track record as an offensive mastermind. I'm very confident you switch both QB's the Bills still lose the AFC title game. 

 

That said, the NFL is a results oriented business and you can't argue with Mahomes results so he gets the nod until Allen and the Bills find a way to get it done in the postseason.

 

That said, it's certainly not unreasonable for some GM's to consider Allen the better prospect. But Mahomes is the safest and at worst his ceiling is just a tad below Allen's.

 

We should all be encouraged by the fact that on que, Allen delivered big time this season as a bona fide top 5 QB in the league in his very first season with a legitimate all-pro WR. At the same time it's going to be a tough road for the Bills as long as the Chiefs have Hill and Kelce to go along with Mahomes.

The fact that we are even having this conversation makes me giddy lol. Such huge step Josh made from a year ago makes you wonder what he will do year 4 the start of his prime.

[NewEra]

Mahomes > Allen.

 

There is no doubt and it shouldn’t be a conversation at this point.

 

That could change next year, but Josh still has some work to do in making the right reads quickly while dealing with pressure. It may have been a strong point for him all season, but it certainly wasn’t vs chiefs.  His placement was off.  Dealing with crowds may also be an issue for him too

 

If Mahomes continue playing like he is now and his targets stay healthy, he will most likely be regarded as the best QB ever when it’s all said and done. Jmo 
 

 

15 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

You simply can't make a fair comparison of the two given one has far superior weapons and a coach with a HOF track record as an offensive mastermind. I'm very confident you switch both QB's the Bills still lose the AFC title game. 

 

That said, the NFL is a results oriented business and you can't argue with Mahomes results so he gets the nod until Allen and the Bills find a way to get it done in the postseason.

 

That said, it's certainly not unreasonable for some GM's to consider Allen the better prospect. But Mahomes is the safest and at worst his ceiling is just a tad below Allen's.

 

We should all be encouraged by the fact that on que, Allen delivered big time this season as a bona fide top 5 QB in the league in his very first season with a legitimate all-pro WR. At the same time it's going to be a tough road for the Bills as long as the Chiefs have Hill and Kelce to go along with Mahomes.

The only thing you can compare is each QBs performance.  Mahomes > Josh at this point.  
 

it’s not that we can’t compare them. We can.....we just can’t compare them on an equal playing field.....similar to every athlete comparison in the history of sports.  

[TheFunPolice]

Sunday is such a swing game for the legacies of Mahomes and Reid. As much as we love Allen, there's a big difference between the 2. 

 

If KC wins, the GOAT whispers will begin. They would have a chance to become the first team in NFL history to 3 peat as SB champions, with one of those coming against Brady. Later on, when we're comparing careers, having this W would be enormous for both Mahomes and Reid. 

 

To win 5 or 6 titles, you've got to bank a few early on in your career, as Brady did. He went 10 years between SB wins, but stacked them when he did win. 

 

On the other hand, with a loss Mahomes drops to .500 in the big game and Reid has a losing record at 1-2. This is likely his only chance to best Brady on this stage. 

 

Brady is playing with house money. Even if he gets blown out, it doesn't hurt him at all. He's 43 for crying out loud, against the up and coming superstar QB and team. But for Mahomes, this is enormous. 

 

 

 

 

[Greg S]

1 minute ago, NewEra said:

Mahomes > Allen.

 

There is no doubt and it shouldn’t be a conversation at this point.

 

That could change next year, but Josh still has some work to do in making the right reads quickly while dealing with pressure. It may have been a strong point for him all season, but it certainly wasn’t vs chiefs.  His placement was off.  Dealing with crowds may also be an issue for him too

 

If Mahomes continue playing like he is now and his targets stay healthy, he will most likely be regarded as the best QB ever when it’s all said and done. Jmo 
 

 

 

I don't think anyone is catching Brady for the GOAT especially if the Bucs win this Sunday.

[NewEra]

Just now, Greg S said:

 

I don't think anyone is catching Brady for the GOAT especially if the Bucs win this Sunday.

I do

1 minute ago, Greg S said:

 

I don't think anyone is catching Brady for the GOAT especially if the Bucs win this Sunday.

After he wins the super bowl in a couple days, he would’ve been 1 Offside call away from winning 3 super titles in 3 years as a starter.  
 

just think about that

[Greg S]

Just now, NewEra said:

I do

 

If Mahomes can do it or hopefully Allen then I would be the first to give them a standing O. Brady has basically spent his entire career playing on a dynasty. It will be a very difficult task to replace him as the GOAT. IMHO.

[BuffaloRebound]

‘Some in the League’...how was that even a story?  Complete red flag when a story says ‘some people think’ and provides no names.  Thanks for stirring crap up and motivating Mahomes.  

[NewEra]

2 minutes ago, Greg S said:

 

If Mahomes can do it or hopefully Allen then I would be the first to give them a standing O. Brady has basically spent his entire career playing on a dynasty. It will be a very difficult task to replace him as the GOAT. IMHO.

I thought so too.....then I watched Mahomes.

 

brady won multiple titles while not being the main reason they won.  Mahomes will be THE reason the chiefs win several Super Bowls 

[Greg S]

4 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I do

After he wins the super bowl in a couple days, he would’ve been 1 Offside call away from winning 3 super titles in 3 years as a starter.  
 

just think about that

 

KC better be real good at drafting and developing those players as well as being successful in FA. NE basically kept their window to win open for 20 years. Also KC will have to deal with salary cap issues like all teams. I hate them with a passion but what NE accomplished these past two decades was extremely impressive especially in today's salary cap world.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

10 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I do

After he wins the super bowl in a couple days, he would’ve been 1 Offside call away from winning 3 super titles in 3 years as a starter.  
 

just think about that

 

It wouldn't have been a guarantee they beat the Rams. Far from it. 50/50 probably. Since Kupp was out maybe 60/40 in favor of the Chiefs?

[TheFunPolice]

Just now, NewEra said:

I do

 

Me too. If Jordan can be in the NBA GOAT conversation with 5 fewer rings than Russell "because of _____" then the same can apply to football. Heck, LeBron is in the GOAT conversation in the NBA with 4. 

 

Then it comes to stats. Statistical records are all temporary, as these young guys like Mahomes are obliterating the record books early on. If he plays until he's 39 or 40 he will hold every single passing record there is. Eventually Brady will be retired and watching his records fall one by one.

 

Mahomes has 114 TDs in his first 3 years. Brady had 69. Does anyone think the game will change to favor the pass less? Help defenses more? Protect QBs less? Brady playing now just delays Mahomes taking over these records by a year or two. If Mahomes averages 38 TD a season (which has been his average) he'll break Brady's record in 12 years, when he is 37. 

 

It's amazing what winning more than 1 ring does for a legacy. That's the biggest question make with Mahomes. Is he truly the champion/clutch guy? That remains to be seen. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

Allen can obviously make all the throws, if we get him the types of weapons that KC has and keep improving the O-Line Allen will be right there.

 

We are at the beginning stages of a very fun ride.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

6 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I thought so too.....then I watched Mahomes.

 

brady won multiple titles while not being the main reason they won.  Mahomes will be THE reason the chiefs win several Super Bowls 

 

Keep in mind we are talking about 15-20 year careers. A lot can change in terms of personnel. Heck, Brady went like 10 years without a super bowl win. 

 

I totally agree that you basically are what your stats and achievements say you are. It's the only way you can compare players. But at the same time I am not naïve enough to not notice one dude is in possibly the best situation we have ever seen in the history of the league. That alone is what keeps this whole conversation a debate. If it were Allen that had the stacked team and Mahomes was still getting over on him and everyone else it would be a slam-dunk case closed debate that basically nobody will ever catch Mahomes and it's only a matter of time before Mahomes catches Brady. But the Chiefs will have to replace Hill and Kelce eventually. The really scary thing though is the Chiefs still have Reid. Has the guy ever not taken any QB and not gotten the very best out of them?

[TheFunPolice]

Don't forget this: early on in the Manning vs Brady debate Big Ben quietly won 2 rings and had another SB appearance while Peyton only had 1 title. 

 

I have a gut feeling Allen is going to be the Big Ben type career. While the flashy QBs get all the press, he goes to a couple SBs and wins 1-2. 

 

Heck, if Allen goes to 3 Super Bowls and wins 2 I think we'll all be very happy with that!

 

 

Edited February 4, 2021 by TheFunPolice

[Greg S]

Just now, TheFunPolice said:

Don't forget this: early on in the Manning vs Brady debate Big Ben quietly won 2 rings and had another SB appearance while Peyton only had 1 title. 

 

I have a gut feeling Allen is going to be the Big Ben type career. While the flashy QBs get all the press, he goes to a couple SBs and wins 1-2. 

 

 

 

If Allen wins a Super Bowl for the Bills then they might as well give him the keys to the city of Buffalo. He would never have to pay for a drink or meal in WNY ever again.

[Nextmanup]

4 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

Don't forget this: early on in the Manning vs Brady debate Big Ben quietly won 2 rings and had another SB appearance while Peyton only had 1 title. 

 

I have a gut feeling Allen is going to be the Big Ben type career. While the flashy QBs get all the press, he goes to a couple SBs and wins 1-2. 

 

Heck, if Allen goes to 3 Super Bowls and wins 2 I think we'll all be very happy with that!

 

 

All I want is one! 

 

One championship from the Bills and one from the Sabres and I'm good to go.

 

 

[NewEra]

25 minutes ago, Greg S said:

 

KC better be real good at drafting and developing those players as well as being successful in FA. NE basically kept their window to win open for 20 years. Also KC will have to deal with salary cap issues like all teams. I hate them with a passion but what NE accomplished these past two decades was extremely impressive especially in today's salary cap world.

I agree.  I just believe that Mahomes and crew will win at least 5 Super Bowls by the time he retires.  And he’ll be the main reasons they won every title. Jmo. 

[TheFunPolice]

1 minute ago, Nextmanup said:

All I want is one! 

 

One championship from the Bills and one from the Sabres and I'm good to go.

 

 

 

I hear ya!

 

With Allen we're going to have a chance! 

[NewEra]

25 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

It wouldn't have been a guarantee they beat the Rams. Far from it. 50/50 probably. Since Kupp was out maybe 60/40 in favor of the Chiefs?

Idk....I thought they were the best team in the league that year.  Not a guaranteed win, but i personally feel that they would have won.  3 titles in the first 3 years and being the main reason they won.  That’s just ridiculous.  He has to hate Dee Ford.

[TheFunPolice]

7 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I agree.  I just believe that Mahomes and crew will win at least 5 Super Bowls by the time he retires.  And he’ll be the main reasons they won every title. Jmo. 

 

If that happens then Reid will be in the GOAT discussion as well. 

 

Many don't realize that he is about to break into the top 5 all-time in HC wins. He has said he wants to coach another 10 years. By then, he could easily pass Belichick on the list, and maybe even make a push for #1. 

4 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Idk....I thought they were the best team in the league that year.  Not a guaranteed win, but i personally feel that they would have won.  3 titles in the first 3 years and being the main reason they won.  That’s just ridiculous.  He has to hate Dee Ford.

 

It's amazing how thin the line is.

 

Dee Ford lines up correctly and Seattle hands the ball off to Lynch and Brady is 4-4 in the Super Bowl. 

 

Instead, because of 2 things he had ZERO control over, except the Ford wiped out his game-losing INT, he is unquestionably the greatest athlete in history in any sport, and there's just no comparison! LOL

Edited February 4, 2021 by TheFunPolice

[Sharky7337]

Thread title should really be some people in the league smoke rocks

[Success]

I don't know how any fan of the game can cite # of rings first in any GOAT discussion.

 

That said, I know fans everywhere do this all the time w/ Brady.  All the time - particularly after he wins another.  When he won against the Rams in that SB, there were a million comments on the internet saying things like "well, no one will touch him as the GOAT now!"

 

Really?  He made one good pass in that game - which shows how ridiculous rings are as an argument.  Football is the ultimate team game.  You need a lot of things to happen in all 3 phases of the game - AND some luck - to get a title.  Coaching also matters more & more the further you get in the playoffs.

 

How can anyone even compare Brady & Manning?  Brady had the GOAT coach, and an incredibly well run organization.  Manning had 5 coaches, only one of whom I'd consider to be "good," and an organization that consistently failed to put a good line in front of him or a good defense on the other side of the ball.

 

Would Brady really have 6 rings if Caldwell had been his coach?  Or McCarthy?

 

 

[TheFunPolice]

1 minute ago, Success said:

I don't know how any fan of the game can cite # of rings first in any GOAT discussion.

 

That said, I know fans everywhere do this all the time w/ Brady.  All the time - particularly after he wins another.  When he won against the Rams in that SB, there were a million comments on the internet saying things like "well, no one will touch him as the GOAT now!"

 

Really?  He made one good pass in that game - which shows how ridiculous rings are as an argument.  Football is the ultimate team game.  You need a lot of things to happen in all 3 phases of the game - AND some luck - to get a title.  Coaching also matters more & more the further you get in the playoffs.

 

How can anyone even compare Brady & Manning?  Brady had the GOAT coach, and an incredibly well run organization.  Manning had 5 coaches, only one of whom I'd consider to be "good," and an organization that consistently failed to put a good line in front of him or a good defense on the other side of the ball.

 

Would Brady really have 6 rings if Caldwell had been his coach?  Or McCarthy?

 

 

 

The good news is that peoples' memories are short, and the newest is always the best. Which is why the guy who won 11 NBA titles in 13 seasons isn't thought of as the GOAT. 

 

That's why this game is huge for those of us who want to change the "Brady is GOAT" conversation. If Mahomes comes up short we're probably stuck, because Mahomes could eventually win 6 and it'll be "yeah but." 

 

 

 

 

[Success]

4 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

 

The good news is that peoples' memories are short, and the newest is always the best. Which is why the guy who won 11 NBA titles in 13 seasons isn't thought of as the GOAT. 

 

That's why this game is huge for those of us who want to change the "Brady is GOAT" conversation. If Mahomes comes up short we're probably stuck, because Mahomes could eventually win 6 and it'll be "yeah but." 

 

 

 

 

 

Well, one thing I know from reading the Pats boards is that the fans there HATE how Mahomes is brought up as a potential GOAT already.  And they rely completely on the rings argument - it's always "he's good, but no way he gets 6 rings!"  

 

Doesn't matter. Bradshaw wasn't as good as Montana. Dilfer wasn't better than Marino.

 

And you're right - it's always about the newest. The media will go crazy as soon as Mahomes gets #2 if it plays out that way.

 

 

[JaCrispy]

I love Josh, but Mahomes is on another planet...he’s the Jordan of the NFL...let’s just hope Allen isn’t Ewing...lol

[Like A Mofo]

10 minutes ago, JaCrispy said:

I love Josh, but Mahomes is on another planet...he’s the Jordan of the NFL...let’s just hope Allen isn’t Ewing...lol

 

If you mean that Ewing was great and was never given that true star around him I agree lets hope Beane gets the needed talent around Josh that the Knicks never gave Ewing in his prime.

[Eastport bills]

I am the biggest JA fan out there, and I know Mahomes is better right now and it's not close. Mahomes has 2 weapons that are HOF candidates and a better O-line, so that has to be factored in, but in their face to face matchups, Mahomes dominated and Mahomes has gotten to 2 SBs being behind in every playoff game. When JA gets to a SB and beats Mahomes to get there, let's have the conversation. 

[eball]

13 minutes ago, JaCrispy said:

I love Josh, but Mahomes is on another planet...he’s the Jordan of the NFL...let’s just hope Allen isn’t Ewing...lol

 

I’m tired of this crap.  Call me a homer, whatever.  Watch what Josh does over the next few years, and realize the difference between what Mahomes walked into and what Josh has developed.  Mahomes is great, on a path to be a 1st ballot HOFer.  Josh will be right there with him — he just got a late start.

[Like A Mofo]

2 minutes ago, eball said:

 

I’m tired of this crap.  Call me a homer, whatever.  Watch what Josh does over the next few years, and realize the difference between what Mahomes walked into and what Josh has developed.  Mahomes is great, on a path to be a 1st ballot HOFer.  Josh will be right there with him — he just got a late start.

 

From your lips to the Football God's ears I hope you are right.

 

As far as Josh goes, I still believe to be considered great you have to duplicate it, need to see in 2021 Josh had a similar year and then I think its fair to put Josh in the Mahomes category.