Billever76 Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 (edited) Still a K-Gun billiever. Had pass and run game. Edited January 4, 2021 by Solomon Grundy 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inigo Montoya Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 I am beginning to believe the only thing that can keep us from playing in the Super Bowl this year is a virus. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warcodered Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 and all those soft defenses we've been playing. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nextmanup Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 I think we were a more dominant, complete team, and probably the best in the entire league at the end of the 1990 season, going into SB XXV against the Giants. This time period right now feels close for me though! We are on a huge win streak, we seem really relaxed in a very healthy, positive way, and we have a QB who can win it all and win tough games against teams with great QBs themselves. Enjoy it! 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dma0034 Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 Bills need a RB. I would say LB, DE and RB are the team's only real needs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virgil Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 2 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said: Still a K-Gun billiever. Had pass and run game. Agreed. That offense also had Thurman who put ridiculous all-purpose yards. Imagine this offense with a Dalvin Cook on it. 3 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 2 minutes ago, dma0034 said: Bills need a RB. I would say LB, DE and RB are the team's only real needs Antonio Williams had me raise an eyebrow 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 Probably the best passing offense the team has ever had. But maybe not the best overall offense. Still, it's super awesome to be able to even say something like that and have it taken seriously. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 5 minutes ago, Nextmanup said: I think we were a more dominant, complete team, and probably the best in the entire league at the end of the 1990 season, going into SB XXV against the Giants. This time period right now feels close for me though! We are on a huge win streak, we seem really relaxed in a very healthy, positive way, and we have a QB who can win it all and win tough games against teams with great QBs themselves. Enjoy it! The difference, for me, is the head coach. McDermott is showing a killer mentality. Marv didn’t 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 1 minute ago, Solomon Grundy said: Antonio Williams had me raise an eyebrow I know it was garbage time (for us), but Williams ran the ball like I was envisioning Moss to run it this year. I realize, Williams is a little bigger than Moss, but he ran with power. Moss is still kind of a mixed bag for me. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 1 minute ago, MJS said: Probably the best passing offense the team has ever had. But maybe not the best overall offense. Still, it's super awesome to be able to even say something like that and have it taken seriously. K-Gun didn’t have a weakness across the board. Knox is the current Bills weak link 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 Just now, Solomon Grundy said: K-Gun didn’t have a weakness across the board. Knox is the current Bills weak link And the running game. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 Just now, Buftex said: I know it was garbage time (for us), but Williams ran the ball like I was envisioning Moss to run it this year. I realize, Williams is a little bigger than Moss, but he ran with power. Moss is still kind of a mixed bag for me. And against Dolphins starters. Considered one of the best defenses in the league 1 minute ago, MJS said: And the running game. It’s adequate 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That's No Moon Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 (edited) I'm going to sound INCREDIBLY old right now but all of these comparisons need to remember and take into account the myriad of rule changes that have happened since 1990-91. You can't bludgeon people over the middle, you can't hit the QB high, you can't hit the QB low, you can't hit the QB even remotely late, you can hold basically every down on offense, DBs get called for WAY more holding and illegal contact now than before, a defenseless receiver was something to murder not to avoid, there was no sliding like WRs do now to avoid contact. If you slid like that in front of Steve Atwater you'd lose your head. If you read this and think I sound like a boomer go watch a game from 90 or 91 on YouTube and tell me what you think. The games are there. Go watch them and count the number of things that would be obvious and blatant penalties today that not only weren't penalties they were lauded as good plays at the time. The Bills have an excellent offense for the time period they are in. Kelly in today's league wouldn't retire at 36 from getting beaten to a pulp. Andre Reed would be uncoverable over the middle because you couldn't manhandle him. A player like Pete Metzelaars would be extremely difficult to defend because he was 6'8" and you can't hit receivers over the middle any more. You basically have to let them catch the ball and then try to pull it out. Gronkowski in 1990 would be a dead man walking with the routes that Brady had him run and the throws he hung up in the air for him. The player that would probably look close to the same would be Thomas IMO mostly because players like him were ahead of their time. FWIW, Dan Marino would be absolutely ungodly in the modern NFL. You'd never lay a hand on him. He threw for 5k yards when 3k was an excellent season. 15 minutes ago, Buftex said: I know it was garbage time (for us), but Williams ran the ball like I was envisioning Moss to run it this year. I realize, Williams is a little bigger than Moss, but he ran with power. Moss is still kind of a mixed bag for me. Williams seems to be a little more point and shoot. Moss has a little more wiggle. Not sure who is faster but Williams seemed like a load to tackle. Not that Moss doesn't run hard but Williams seemed to have that little bit more mass that made DBs not want to stick their nose in there quite so hard. Reminded me a little of another Williams we had not so long ago. Kinda the same style of runner. Edited January 4, 2021 by That's No Moon 17 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That's No Moon Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 16 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said: K-Gun didn’t have a weakness across the board. Knox is the current Bills weak link Knox is as good as McKellar was. We don't have anyone that blocks like Metzelaars though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big C Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 I am still seeing a lot of doubters out in the Twittersphere. I can’t wait to prove them all wrong. This team is flat out dominating. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That's No Moon Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 2 minutes ago, Big C said: I am still seeing a lot of doubters out in the Twittersphere. I can’t wait to prove them all wrong. This team is flat out dominating. Only one way to fix it. 4 more rivers to cross. Even then there will be some that call it a fluke. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malazan Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 21 minutes ago, Big C said: I am still seeing a lot of doubters out in the Twittersphere. I can’t wait to prove them all wrong. This team is flat out dominating. There's people that still doubt the Patriots of the last 20 years.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That's No Moon Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 (edited) Addendum to my post above. The following play was from 2001. Not a penalty. This would be an immediate no brainer 15 yard penalty and a borderline ejection today. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4OTH0pddv4&ab_channel=lteru This is a bunch of clips produced by the league itself and spliced together by someone. Almost none of this was illegal. BTW, look behind B-Dawk at 2:30. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdcifUHmxLY&ab_channel=BucsArchivewithLiamMitchell I don't share these things because I think the league should go back to this because that isn't going to happen. I show this to those of you who are too young to remember so you have proper respect for offensive players who played in this era and before and didn't put up the video game stats players are putting up today. The NFL is a VERY different place now and players and styles that are very successful now would have had a much different experience back then. There is a REASON QBs didn't run around. There is a REASON why there weren't smurfy little slot receivers. There is a REASON why tight tends didn't maraud over the middle of the field all day long. It's not because nobody thought of doing it, it's because you would get killed. You had two safeties. Your free safety was your ballhawk most of the time and your strong safety was an absolute assassin. Their literal job was to kill people coming across the middle of the field and make them not come there anymore. Every team had one and they all did that, some better than others. The Bills' assassin was Leonard Smith and he would knock a fool out ZFG. This is Chuck Cecil. Chuck Cecil was crazy. Chuck Cecil did stuff like this all the time. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKxeo7ZUMzo&ab_channel=SavageBrickArchive Edited January 4, 2021 by That's No Moon 4 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 48 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said: K-Gun didn’t have a weakness across the board. Knox is the current Bills weak link sure there was. They couldn’t/didn’t possess the ball, so they screwed the defense which had to stay on the field 40 minutes per game. Also Jim was not very mobile and the TEs were nothing special. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billspro Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 1 hour ago, Nextmanup said: I think we were a more dominant, complete team, and probably the best in the entire league at the end of the 1990 season, going into SB XXV against the Giants. This time period right now feels close for me though! We are on a huge win streak, we seem really relaxed in a very healthy, positive way, and we have a QB who can win it all and win tough games against teams with great QBs themselves. Enjoy it! It’s a special year. We still have to do it in the playoffs to be with that group. I think we can though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mykidsdad Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 1 hour ago, Billever76 said: We are missing a Thurman on Offense and a Bruce on D. I still think we can win it all, but we aren't as talented as the Hall of Fame machine that was our 1990s Bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billspro Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 Just now, mykidsdad said: We are missing a Thurman on Offense and a Bruce on D. I still think we can win it all, but we aren't as talented as the Hall of Fame machine that was our 1990s Bills. This group could have HOF players too. We will have to look back on it a couple decades from now. Allen, Diggs, and White have potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsToast Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 (edited) 55 minutes ago, That's No Moon said: I'm going to sound INCREDIBLY old right now but all of these comparisons need to remember and take into account the myriad of rule changes that have happened since 1990-91. You can't bludgeon people over the middle, you can't hit the QB high, you can't hit the QB low, you can't hit the QB even remotely late, you can hold basically every down on offense, DBs get called for WAY more holding and illegal contact now than before, a defenseless receiver was something to murder not to avoid, there was no sliding like WRs do now to avoid contact. If you slid like that in front of Steve Atwater you'd lose your head. If you read this and think I sound like a boomer go watch a game from 90 or 91 on YouTube and tell me what you think. The games are there. Go watch them and count the number of things that would be obvious and blatant penalties today that not only weren't penalties they were lauded as good plays at the time. DING DING DING we have a winner here. The game has changed so much that looking at Farve's lifetime stats by year tell some of the story. He was MVP with a 90's QB rating, then later in his career he was a post 100+ QB rating. Players weren't able to get to 4k yards a season because it was so hard. There is no hearing the footsteps as a WR, there is no penalty for attacking the QB. That gives the QB calmer feet. The whole thing is an offensive league now. Half of QBs in 2020 throw 65% completion rate or higher. 10 QBs have a rating 100+ and 9 QBs threw over 4k yards. 9 QBs had 30+ TDs and 19 over 20 TDs. 1992? 2 QBs over 65%, 1 QB over 100+ QB rating, 5 QBs threw over 20 TDs and none over 25 TDs. Only 1 QB over 4k yards in a season. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1992/passing.htm Edited January 4, 2021 by BillsToast 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Worthington Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 1 hour ago, Nextmanup said: I think we were a more dominant, complete team, and probably the best in the entire league at the end of the 1990 season, going into SB XXV against the Giants. This time period right now feels close for me though! We are on a huge win streak, we seem really relaxed in a very healthy, positive way, and we have a QB who can win it all and win tough games against teams with great QBs themselves. Enjoy it! 100%. Bills were so good I thought they would easily truck the Giants. 30 years later I almost still can’t believe it was a competitive game, let alone a loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steven50 Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 1 hour ago, Solomon Grundy said: Still a K-Gun billiever. Had pass and run game. could you imagine Thurman Thomas in this offense? Holy cow that would be as close to perfect as I have ever seen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motorin' Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 1 hour ago, Solomon Grundy said: K-Gun didn’t have a weakness across the board. Knox is the current Bills weak link It's greatest strength was it's greatest weakness. JK called the plays, and was awesome at it. Except when defenses did exotic ***** to fool him. He didn't have someone like Dabs in his ear making adjustments. 1 hour ago, Solomon Grundy said: K-Gun didn’t have a weakness across the board. Knox is the current Bills weak link It's greatest strength was it's greatest weakness. JK called the plays, and was awesome at it. Except when defenses did exotic ***** to fool him. He didn't have someone like Dabs in his ear making adjustments. 1 hour ago, Solomon Grundy said: K-Gun didn’t have a weakness across the board. Knox is the current Bills weak link It's greatest strength was it's greatest weakness. JK called the plays, and was awesome at it. Except when defenses did exotic ***** to fool him. He didn't have someone like Dabs in his ear making adjustments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That's No Moon Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 16 minutes ago, Motorin' said: It's greatest strength was it's greatest weakness. JK called the plays, and was awesome at it. Except when defenses did exotic ***** to fool him. He didn't have someone like Dabs in his ear making adjustments. Which is another rule change that I forgot to mention. QB helmet radios weren't a thing. Which matters. A lot. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 1 hour ago, Solomon Grundy said: Still a K-Gun billiever. Had pass and run game. Yup. Still, this offense is terrific. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 45 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: sure there was. They couldn’t/didn’t possess the ball, so they screwed the defense which had to stay on the field 40 minutes per game. Also Jim was not very mobile and the TEs were nothing special. No, there wasn't. Scoring quickly is not a weakness. They weren't just the highest scorers, they scored 51 points more than the 5th highest scorers. A low time of possession wasn't a weakness, it was a side effect of their extreme productivity. And Kelly early in his career was plenty mobile. No, he wasn't an antelope, but he could move decently. Lost that in the last two or three years and that's how people remember him, but he could run when he had to and evaded sacks well. And not being special (the TEs) isn't a weakness. We got 9 TDs out of the TEs in 1990, for instance. And over 500 yards and excellent blocking, in a season when the best TE in the league managed 747 yards. McKeller was 7th in the league for yards among TEs. That's not a weakness. Certainly not an extreme strength either, but far from a weakness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMAKCruiser Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 1 hour ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: sure there was. They couldn’t/didn’t possess the ball, so they screwed the defense which had to stay on the field 40 minutes per game. Also Jim was not very mobile and the TEs were nothing special. Might want to go back and re watch that SB. Extremely poor tackling was the major reason they were on the field for 40 minutes, not because of the K gun offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 1 hour ago, jeremy2020 said: There's people that still doubt the Patriots of the last 20 years.. I doubt they could have won without cheating and zebras "Just give it to them" giving them calls. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peace Frog Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 I'd dare say that this offense has better receivers than the K-gun offense had. Definitely a more mobile QB. Possibly a more creative OC. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah John Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 The NFL moved away from selling big hits, to selling high scoring, and also moved away from brain injuries to protecting players. The game has changed enormously. I think Madden had a lot to do with it -- Madden the game more than Madden the coach. People get used to seeing offensive production and they expect to see it on the field too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah John Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 1 hour ago, Peace Frog said: I'd dare say that this offense has better receivers than the K-gun offense had. Definitely a more mobile QB. Possibly a more creative OC. No, I have to disagree. Andre Reed, James Lofton, Don Beebe, Keith McKellar, Thurman Thomas. Reed made his living going across the middle where most players feared to tread. Reed, Lofton, and Thomas all made the Pro Bowl in 1991. Thomas had 631 receiving yards. Al Edwards didn't start but he was a good player. If there's an advantage for this year's team, it's with the offensive coordinator. What Daboll comes up with is amazing. As for the HCs, both took lousy teams and, along with brilliant GMs, made them better quickly. Levy was able to keep a great team focused and together for years, and McD hasn't had a chance to do that yet. Levy had a team full of stars and had them working together. McD has a team of very good players and has them working together. I'll take either one, don't want to rate one above the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
78thealltimegreat Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 4 hours ago, Billever76 said: Still wish we’d get more of a running game so the pressure isn’t solely on Josh especially with the gauntlet about to begin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Romes Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 The ‘90 team is the only team better than this one going into the playoffs. People forget that the early 90s were in an unprecedented era of dominance for the NFC, 13 straight Super Bowl wins. Winning the AFC in those days was similar to winning the MAC and having to go against the SEC champion for the overall title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 It’s kind of futile to compare the K Gun offense to this one Super Allen. They are both special, and have similar and different strengths. Football is played so much differently now than at that time. I just checked this morning. We finished the year with the #2 offense, #3 in passing, #20 in rushing, and my favorite, #2 in pts. We’re only .5 pts. Behind the Packers. We dropped slightly for the year to 14th in defense, and a fun pt. Was ST. We are #1 in the league in kickoff returns, and #4 in punt returns. Talk about playing well in all three phases of the game. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 🤐 no jinx comments from me 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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