Allen leads NFL in lowest % of uncatchable passes from a clean pocket...Wow!

[Big Turk]

This is kind of stunning...Allen leads the NFL in lowest percentage of uncatchable passes from a clean pocket at 10.9%.

 

I knew he was doing really well but I had no idea this well...seems like his accuracy and ball placement has become elite as well..

 

 

https://twitter.com/PFF_AustinGayle/status/1343971720806490115?s=20

[34-78-83]

But Terry Bradshaw told us this was impossible!

[Shaw66]

Can't be.  He's not accurate.  

 

Great stat.  Certainly consistent with the guy we've been seeing.   When he's clean in the pocket and throws, it's a completion.  

[klos63]

2 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Can't be.  He's not accurate.  

 

Great stat.  Certainly consistent with the guy we've been seeing.   When he's clean in the pocket and throws, it's a completion.  

The line is giving him a huge pocket and a great deal of time. It's like watching Aikman with Dallas.  It's pretty amazing to see.

[0017]

4 minutes ago, 34-78-83 said:

But Terry Bradshaw told us this was impossible!

What’s that fat turd saying now?!? 😡

[billsfan1959]

I doubt the innacuracy myth will ever really die...

[klos63]

4 minutes ago, 34-78-83 said:

But Terry Bradshaw told us this was impossible!

To be fair, Allen's progress has been pretty remarkable. Most football scouts, QB's, coaches that I heard speak on this felt it was unlikely for Allen to make this leap. It seems rather unprecedented.

[Warcodered]

7 minutes ago, 34-78-83 said:

But Terry Bradshaw told us this was impossible!

1 minute ago, klos63 said:

To be fair, Allen's progress has been pretty remarkable. Most football scouts, QB's, coaches that I heard speak on this felt it was unlikely for Allen to make this leap. It seems rather unprecedented.

Allen's mechanics were the one thing holding him back as a prospect and Big Baller Bean saw that he'd already started improving them from the end of his college season to the Senior Bowl.

[Bangarang]

Today we’re taking PFF seriously. Tune in tomorrow for the inevitable discrediting.

[BrownNgold]

10 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

I doubt the innacuracy myth will ever really die...

Good.  Because Josh will not let up untill he proves everyone wrong.

 

I'm fairly certain when he busted his shoulder up in his first year in Wyoming they took the chip from his shoulder and surgically implanted it in him, so it's not going away untill every doubter pays either physically, emotionally, or monetarily.

 

The dude is still pissed about being a zero star recruit out of high school, and wont rest till he gets his revenge.

[Warcodered]

2 minutes ago, BrownNgold said:

Good.  Because Josh will not let up untill he proves everyone wrong.

 

I'm fairly certain when he busted his shoulder up in his first year in Wyoming they took the chip from his shoulder and surgically implanted it in him, so it's not going away untill every doubter pays either physically, emotionally, or monetarily.

 

The dude is still pissed about being a zero star recruit out of high school, and wont rest till he gets his revenge.

Pretty sure that happened when at the Fresno State QB camp they put him with the undesirables as a kid.

[34-78-83]

24 minutes ago, Dr. Football said:

What’s that fat turd saying now?!? 😡

LOL. he said after one of Josh’s “off” weeks ( TItans maybe) that wasn’t really that off , that you could not improve accuracy from what you were at coming into the league. I don’t know if he’s said much since then. But he said this THIS YEAR is the most funny part for me

[Big Turk]

46 minutes ago, klos63 said:

To be fair, Allen's progress has been pretty remarkable. Most football scouts, QB's, coaches that I heard speak on this felt it was unlikely for Allen to make this leap. It seems rather unprecedented.

 

But that is because they started with a faulty premise.  They started with the premise that Allen had received adequate coaching during his time playing QB.  He hadn't.  Compare what Allen had to what most of the top prospects had coming out and it is night and day.  So for most of the others, yes it would be true...because they already had coaches working on that with them.  Allen just kind of went out there and slung it.

 

Start by making a bad assumption and it will lead you to a faulty conclusion.

Edited December 31, 2020 by Big Turk

[klos63]

3 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

But that is because they started with a faulty premise.  They started with the premise that Allen had received adequate coaching during his time playing QB.  He hadn't.  Compare what Allen had to what most of the top prospects had coming out and it is night and day.  So for most of the others, yes it would be true...because they already had coaches working on that with them.  Allen just kind of went out there and slung it.

 

Start by making a bad assumption and it will lead you to a faulty conclusion.

That's not the premise. It was that if you have major accuracy issues coming out of college, it's unlikely to completely fix those at the pro level. Agree or not if is valid , but that was the premise , or at least how I interpreted it to be.

[Big Turk]

3 minutes ago, klos63 said:

That's not the premise. It was that if you have major accuracy issues coming out of college, it's unlikely to completely fix those at the pro level. Agree or not if is valid , but that was the premise , or at least how I interpreted it to be.

 

Yeah I guess, but part of thinking that is because all of those guys have gotten good coaching.  I think what they didn't see is Allen had almost unlimited room to improve whereas others had much less room to improve.

[klos63]

2 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Yeah I guess, but part of thinking that is because all of those guys have gotten good coaching.  I think what they didn't see is Allen had almost unlimited room to improve whereas others had much less room to improve.

But coaching in college is a big issue, you don't always have the luxury of time to learn mechanics in the NFL, and it's not easy. Allen is a special case.  Keep in mind, he was still considered a top 10 pick pretty much all around, so it's not that people thought he was untalented, just had shortcomings.  I don't think anyone saw his performance this season happening so soon. It's really remarkable what he has done. Even with no major issues coming out of college, not many QB's play as this sustained level at any point in their career let alone in year 3. It's truly amazing.

[Mr. K]

We all know he is a parody of a quarterback prospect.

[Ta111]

1 hour ago, klos63 said:

To be fair, Allen's progress has been pretty remarkable. Most football scouts, QB's, coaches that I heard speak on this felt it was unlikely for Allen to make this leap. It seems rather unprecedented.

Not really. Favre and others have increased completion percentage after getting to the pros. Remember, completion percentage doesn’t equal accuracy. That’s the problem with some of these alleged experts. There are many factors that go into completion percentage, such as weather conditions, average length of pass, pass protection, ability of receivers etc...

anyone who followed Josh saw that he was throwing low percentage passes (long bombs) at a high rate at Wyoming.

 

[Warcodered]

7 hours ago, klos63 said:

But coaching in college is a big issue, you don't always have the luxury of time to learn mechanics in the NFL, and it's not easy. Allen is a special case.  Keep in mind, he was still considered a top 10 pick pretty much all around, so it's not that people thought he was untalented, just had shortcomings.  I don't think anyone saw his performance this season happening so soon. It's really remarkable what he has done. Even with no major issues coming out of college, not many QB's play as this sustained level at any point in their career let alone in year 3. It's truly amazing.

What I don't understand is why so many people are surprised at how good he's becoming. The entire reason why Josh was in the conversation for #1 overall pick was that his ceiling was so ***** high. So if he actually turns out to be a hit and is filling his potential he should be great.

Edited December 31, 2020 by Warcodered

[Big Turk]

1 minute ago, Ta111 said:

Not really. Favre and others have increased completion percentage after getting to the pros. Remember, completion percentage doesn’t equal accuracy. That’s the problem with some of these alleged experts. There are many factors that go into completion percentage, such as weather conditions, average length of pass, pass protection, ability of receivers etc...

anyone who followed Josh saw that he was throwing low percentage passes (long bombs) at a high rate at Wyoming.

 

 

And to basically scrubs more or less

[klos63]

10 hours ago, Warcodered said:

What I don't understand his why so many people are surprised at how good he's becoming. The entire reason why Josh was in the conversation for #1 overall pick was that his ceiling was so ***** high. So if he actually turns out to be a hit and is filling his potential he should be great.

Because he's only in year 3 and so many other QB's that were expected to also be great haven't done this. He's in the company of Mahomes and Rogers, and nobody else in the league is. Would anyone reasonably have expected that to happen in year 3?

10 hours ago, Ta111 said:

Not really. Favre and others have increased completion percentage after getting to the pros. Remember, completion percentage doesn’t equal accuracy. That’s the problem with some of these alleged experts. There are many factors that go into completion percentage, such as weather conditions, average length of pass, pass protection, ability of receivers etc...

anyone who followed Josh saw that he was throwing low percentage passes (long bombs) at a high rate at Wyoming.

 

Favre isn't really a model for accuracy, he was dynamic, like Allen, but threw a crapload of INT's. He was careless with the ball his whole career, averaged an INT a game. He got a lot of press and was exciting to watch. Allen should be better.

Edited December 31, 2020 by klos63

[Warcodered]

2 minutes ago, klos63 said:

Because he's only in year 3 and so many other QB's that were expected to also be great haven't done this. He's in the company of Mahomes and Rogers, and nobody else in the league is. Would anyone reasonably have expected that to happen in year 3?

Right I get that I'm just a little exasperated with these sports pundits saying this is beyond what they'd thought he'd be. Him hitting on his high ceiling is being one of the top QBs in the league otherwise what does having one of the highest ceilings even mean.

[Don Otreply]

1 hour ago, Bangarang said:

Today we’re taking PFF seriously. Tune in tomorrow for the inevitable discrediting.

Pff is a bunch of wagon jumpers, they fear being left behind, so they do what they do so they can appear relevant. 

[klos63]

11 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

Right I get that I'm just a little exasperated with these sports pundits saying this is beyond what they'd thought he'd be. Him hitting on his high ceiling is being one of the top QBs in the league otherwise what does having one of the highest ceilings even mean.

That's actually a very good question. It means nothing really. It's like 'potential' or 'off the charts'. It's a tired cliche that's pretty meaningless.

[Solomon Grundy]

3 hours ago, 34-78-83 said:

But Terry Bradshaw told us this was impossible!

What a doofenshmirtz Bradshaw is.

[Warcodered]

Pretty nice narrative in this videos from the tough 1st year-lighting it up in his 3rd.

 

 

[LeGOATski]

He didn't just put the accuracy criticism to bed...he obliterated it with a .50 cal machine gun.

[GoBills808]

2 hours ago, klos63 said:

Because he's only in year 3 and so many other QB's that were expected to also be great haven't done this. He's in the company of Mahomes and Rogers, and nobody else in the league is. Would anyone reasonably have expected that to happen in year 3?

Yes

[GunnerBill]

3 hours ago, Warcodered said:

Right I get that I'm just a little exasperated with these sports pundits saying this is beyond what they'd thought he'd be. Him hitting on his high ceiling is being one of the top QBs in the league otherwise what does having one of the highest ceilings even mean.

 

I will answer from my own perspective and certainly don't claim to speak for the network talking heads. I always thought Josh had elite level potential because his physical gifts were so special but he is much better than I expected him to be because I put the chances of him reaching that potential pretty low.

 

There was some inaccuracy there on the college film which to his immense credit @thebandit27 at the time said he felt was attributable to issues with his base sometimes getting too wide - which is one of the exact things Jordan Palmer has said he attributed it to as well and they have worked on correcting. 

 

But more than that for me it was the nuance of the position I worried about with Josh. While he was asked at Wyoming to read the field a lot more than a lot of college Quarterbacks these days he had to see a guy wide open before he threw it, he lacked patience and bailed clean pockets too often and every ball pretty much was thrown as hard as he can. I also noted back then that he was a guy who had to feel in rhythm and it got ugly when he wasn't.

 

When you put all of that together my assessment was that was a lot of refinement to do to a guy once he got to the NFL to enable him to really take advantage of the enormous gifts and physical potential that he had. If it all came together there was always a chance for Josh to be special. But I just felt the chances that it could all come together were slim. The one thing I always acknowledge though that an amateur watching college film can't do is measure the size of the fight in the dog as it were. Brandon Beane has said publicly that Josh the person was one of the most significant factors for them. They felt he could develop because they absolutely bought into him and his commitment to be great.

 

Watching him develop has been incredibly fun. The first year all those nuance things that worried me were still there. The second year he stopped bailing clean pockets so much and there were signs of improved touch (as compared to year 1 when he would throw even a swing pass to a back as hard as he could). The big step forward in year 3 has been the anticipatory throwing. Having more trust in guys like Diggs and Beasley plays a part there but that is why that seam ball to Dawson Knox the other night is almost the favourite throw I have seen Josh make. 

 

I know he can make the special play where he runs around and fires a fastball and shows off that arm.... but that throw to Dawson Knox is elite pocket quarterback play. Reading, anticipating, throwing with touch and precision. It was a throw Tom Brady or Drew Brees makes rather than a throw Brett Favre makes if that makes sense. 

 

So yea I fall into the category of being both delighted and surprised that Josh is at this point. I knew it was possible, I just thought it was unlikely. 

[machine gun kelly]

6 hours ago, klos63 said:

The line is giving him a huge pocket and a great deal of time. It's like watching Aikman with Dallas.  It's pretty amazing to see.

I said the same in Virgil’s thread.  It’s like the chicken and the egg.  He gets a very clean pocket, but then again he moves so well in the pocket and is such a threat with escapability.  What’s even more fun, is in 2018, he would just take off and run, but the improvements in 19 and now 2020 when he rolls out, defenses truly can’t tell whether he just looks for the open guy, or throws him open, and has one of the strongest arms in the league and can do what we teach our kids never to do in throwing back into the left side of the field as he’s running right.  He and Mahomes, maybe Rodgers can pull that off effortlessly.  Most NFL QB’s as fast as the DB’s are makes that pick.

 

we finally have a QB, line and weapons where you’re not panicking as he’s throwing it, please no pick, please no pick.  I just trust him now.  I don’t even think about picks with him.  I believe he has 9, and that Rams one was BS.  The Roberts one in the TN game was not Allen’s fault.  That was bad hands on Roberts.

[NickelCity]

He's simply sensational.

[BodyBagGame]

7 hours ago, Warcodered said:

What I don't understand his why so many people are surprised at how good he's becoming. The entire reason why Josh was in the conversation for #1 overall pick was that his ceiling was so ***** high. So if he actually turns out to be a hit and is filling his potential he should be great.

You don't understand?  You should have stopped there.

[Chandler#81]

This is a new stat on me. Just so I’m sure, Allen COMPLETES the Most UNCATCHABLE balls? Right? It’s strangely worded..

 

Certainly we’ve seen this throughout his young career.

[BodyBagGame]

16 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

This is a new stat on me. Just so I’m sure, Allen COMPLETES the Most UNCATCHABLE balls? Right? It’s strangely worded..

 

Certainly we’ve seen this throughout his young career.

If you're a stats guy, you're going to love keeping up with Josh Allen.

[JMF2006]

10 hours ago, klos63 said:

To be fair, Allen's progress has been pretty remarkable. Most football scouts, QB's, coaches that I heard speak on this felt it was unlikely for Allen to make this leap. It seems rather unprecedented.

 

That would all make sense if he played at a big school in the Power 5 Conferences.

 

But he didn't get that type of coaching and help until he got to the NFL .

 

He had all the tools he just need to learn how to use them properly.

 

His first year here he had minimal weapons and a bad line his second year thing got a bit better around him.

 

Beane even admitted he let his QB down by not getting him more targets to hit.

 

2020 almost all the problems fixed including Josh's mechanics.

 

Let her rip potato chip

Edited December 31, 2020 by JMF2006
sense with an S

[Doc]

6 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

I will answer from my own perspective and certainly don't claim to speak for the network talking heads. I always thought Josh had elite level potential because his physical gifts were so special but he is much better than I expected him to be because I put the chances of him reaching that potential pretty low.

 

There was some inaccuracy there on the college film which to his immense credit @thebandit27 at the time said he felt was attributable to issues with his base sometimes getting too wide - which is one of the exact things Jordan Palmer has said he attributed it to as well and they have worked on correcting. 

 

But more than that for me it was the nuance of the position I worried about with Josh. While he was asked at Wyoming to read the field a lot more than a lot of college Quarterbacks these days he had to see a guy wide open before he threw it, he lacked patience and bailed clean pockets too often and every ball pretty much was thrown as hard as he can. I also noted back then that he was a guy who had to feel in rhythm and it got ugly when he wasn't.

 

When you put all of that together my assessment was that was a lot of refinement to do to a guy once he got to the NFL to enable him to really take advantage of the enormous gifts and physical potential that he had. If it all came together there was always a chance for Josh to be special. But I just felt the chances that it could all come together were slim. The one thing I always acknowledge though that an amateur watching college film can't do is measure the size of the fight in the dog as it were. Brandon Beane has said publicly that Josh the person was one of the most significant factors for them. They felt he could develop because they absolutely bought into him and his commitment to be great.

 

Watching him develop has been incredibly fun. The first year all those nuance things that worried me were still there. The second year he stopped bailing clean pockets so much and there were signs of improved touch (as compared to year 1 when he would throw even a swing pass to a back as hard as he could). The big step forward in year 3 has been the anticipatory throwing. Having more trust in guys like Diggs and Beasley plays a part there but that is why that seam ball to Dawson Knox the other night is almost the favourite throw I have seen Josh make. 

 

I know he can make the special play where he runs around and fires a fastball and shows off that arm.... but that throw to Dawson Knox is elite pocket quarterback play. Reading, anticipating, throwing with touch and precision. It was a throw Tom Brady or Drew Brees makes rather than a throw Brett Favre makes if that makes sense. 

 

So yea I fall into the category of being both delighted and surprised that Josh is at this point. I knew it was possible, I just thought it was unlikely. 

 

Come on.  You called his drafting a "regime-killing" move (and also said you'd gladly be willing to be reminded of how wrong you were if it proved otherwise).  

[North Buffalo]

11 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Can't be.  He's not accurate.  

 

Great stat.  Certainly consistent with the guy we've been seeing.   When he's clean in the pocket and throws, it's a completion.  

The non billiviers need to come forth, be heeled(pun intended) and be Borne.. Jasoned.

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

As long as we have a good O-Line and keep Allen clean he will keep passing strikes. Allen will be in the HOF, we just need to keep him healthy. 

[BearNorth]

Josh has the physical skills, size, speed, arm talent, few have; combined with coaching from Dorsey, and Daboll; & getting him some receiving talent. His general, "I'm gonna prove I can play with any one" attitude.  Add in a bit of farm boy; "no work is too hard" mentality doesn't hurt either.  He's almost as big as Big Ben, faster, better arm, unlike the guy in Tampa, his mobility gives the OC a lot of options, No disrespect to Mahomes, who has a better supporting cast, but what Josh has done this season is mind boggling.  Just imagine if Josh had a Kelce/Gesicke type Tight End.

 

 

Edited December 31, 2020 by BearNorth

[GunnerBill]

36 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Come on.  You called his drafting a "regime-killing" move (and also said you'd gladly be willing to be reminded of how wrong you were if it proved otherwise).  

 

I did and I am very happy to be reminded of it and very happy to be wrong. But I also said all of the above too. I was very clear what my issues with Josh were and my evaluation on him as a prospect is still available on this here forum. I never disputed he had a super high ceiling. The reason I disliked him as a prospect was because I also thought he had a super low floor and I thought the chances of him reaching that ceiling were pretty slim. 

 

I wasn't just someone who sat in a corner shouting "he sucks" I went into quite a lot of detail about what I didn't like about him. And I was not a "he is just too inaccurate" or "completion percentage" guy either. And as I say above, huge props to Bandit because he identified the issue that cause some of the natural inaccuracy that was there on the college film. He was absolutely spot on.