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Lions fire HC Matt Patricia and GM Bob Quinn

YoloinOhio

By YoloinOhio
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BringBackFergy
BringBackFergy

All the play cards are laminated. Has Patricia ever even used that fu#%ing pencil?

PromoTheRobot
PromoTheRobot

No. Because no one on the Patriots staff does anything more than take directions from the Hoodie 

Doc
Doc

Figured that was coming soon.  Would you take Patricia as a DC?

MJS Hall of Famer

MJS

Posted
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58 minutes ago, Augie said:

At some point, the fans need to fire the owners, or just walk away. Even their uniforms are hideous!  Only the Bengals can give their fans solace. 

Hmm. I don't mind their uniforms.

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BillsShredder83 Veteran

BillsShredder83

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8 hours ago, Rochesterfan said:


 

I will wait on the Jets.  The owners likes Gase and Gase picked the GM.  
 

I am not convinced that they move on from Gase at the end of the year.  I think they allow the GM and Gase to decide on the roster for next year.  
 

The Jets hate having a lot of term on the contract when eliminating coaches and paying 2 guys at the same time. 
 

They should move on, but I am not sure they do.  I think they want the GM and HC to get the next QB.

Id be shocked.  I dont think even they are this disfunctional.  Get yourself a new coach and GM to pick THEIR qb at #1, and do NOT let Gase get within 5miles of him.  BUTTTTTTTT i hope youre right

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GoBills808 Hall of Famer

GoBills808

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9 hours ago, Beast said:

This is a long-time organizational problem.

 

The Lions have sucked my whole life and I'm 53 years old.

 

This is a Ford family issue. Not a GM or HC issue. Always has been always will be.

Wasted the best RB ever and most physically gifted WR 

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97bills Veteran

97bills

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Posted
11 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Wasted the best RB ever and most physically gifted WR 

And we’ve seen  teams win championship with way less talent at QB than stafford. What a shame if I’m stafford I asking for a trade think of him with the 49ers. 

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GunnerBill Hall of Famer

GunnerBill

Posted
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5 hours ago, Inigo Montoya said:

 

This might be an unpopular position but I think the Jets' job is going to be the best one out there next year.  Big market, Joe Douglas seems mostly competent, tons of draft picks including the 1st overall pick (more than likely), lots of cap space, and time to do a complete rebuild with no immediate pressure to win.  If you step into Houston they will expect you to win immediately because you have Watson. The problem is that Houston has mortgaged their future trading away many of their high draft picks on dubious Bill O'Brien personnel moves. 

 

 

I am not sure that is the expectation in Houston. It has been traditionally a patient franchise. In their 18 year history they have had 3 permanent Head Coaches and they know the new guy comes in with no number 1 or 2 pick in 2021. But get through that year and a lot of options are on the table there with the most important piece to build around. 

 

I do think the Jets job is attractive - chance to draft Trevor Lawrence, lots of cap space, other good picks in 2021, chance to live in NYC. The problems there are ownership and patience. I am not sure you will get as much time with the Jets as one would presume.

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Mango All Pro

Mango

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10 hours ago, Beast said:

 

I think Daboll needs to show a lot more before he sniffs a HC job.

 

Let's not forget, defense isn't played all that much in today's NFL.

 

If I were an NFL owner I would need to see a lot more from Daboll at the moment. The offense is drastically improved this year, but just from a results stand point this is an anomaly in his career production. A second year showing the same consistency in passing attack and revamping the run game in the offseason, and I would be willing to pull the trigger. 

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Inigo Montoya Veteran

Inigo Montoya

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18 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

If I were an NFL owner I would need to see a lot more from Daboll at the moment. The offense is drastically improved this year, but just from a results stand point this is an anomaly in his career production. A second year showing the same consistency in passing attack and revamping the run game in the offseason, and I would be willing to pull the trigger. 

 

Hey Mango!

 

Daboll is now, for better or worse, true or not, that most mythological of all offensive coaches,  a "quarterback whisperer".  He took Josh Allen who couldn't hit the ocean with a football while standing in a rowboat and brought him along to a near 70% completion rate QB.  A team that is drafting a new QB who has some rough edges may look at what Daboll has done with Josh and think it's a wise move to bring him in. 

 

In fairness, I think Daboll does deserves credit for some of Allens' development over the last three seasons but I'm of the opinion that Allen deserves the majority of the credit himself.  He has spent big chunks of the off season paying out of pocket to work with his own QB coach, actually relocating to be close to Palmer during the off season.  He has spent hundreds of hours studying defenses so he can be more mentally nimble on the field and has done every single thing he possibly could to get better at his craft.  Daboll is not responsible for that competitiveness and that work ethic or that will to succeed.  That is all inside of Josh.

 

Let's contrast Josh attitude with this little gem from Baker Mayfield at the end of last season.  I don't think Daboll would be having the same amount of success if he was Baker's OC.

https://sports.yahoo.com/browns-baker-mayfield-declares-he-wont-work-with-throwing-coach-in-offseason-195337203.html

 

Having said that, I think Daboll has impressed a lot of people in the League with how he has helped Josh come along (deservedly so) and I would be shocked if he doesn't get a HC offer this off season.

 

 

 

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Mango All Pro

Mango

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3 minutes ago, Inigo Montoya said:

 

Hey Mango!

 

Daboll is now, for better or worse, true or not, that most mythological of all offensive coaches,  a "quarterback whisperer".  He took Josh Allen who couldn't hit the ocean with a football while standing in a rowboat and brought him along to a near 70% completion rate QB.  A team that is drafting a new QB who has some rough edges may look at what Daboll has done with Josh and think it's a wise move to bring him in. 

 

In fairness, I think Daboll does deserves credit for some of Allens' development over the last three seasons but I'm of the opinion that Allen deserves the majority of the credit himself.  He has spent big chunks of the off season paying out of pocket to work with his own QB coach, actually relocating to be close to Palmer during the off season.  He has spent hundreds of hours studying defenses so he can be more mentally nimble on the field and has done every single thing he possibly could to get better at his craft.  Daboll is not responsible for that competitiveness and that work ethic or that will to succeed.  That is all inside of Josh.

 

Let's contrast Josh attitude with this little gem from Baker Mayfield at the end of last season.  I don't think Daboll would be having the same amount of success if he was Baker's OC.

https://sports.yahoo.com/browns-baker-mayfield-declares-he-wont-work-with-throwing-coach-in-offseason-195337203.html

 

Having said that, I think Daboll has impressed a lot of people in the League with how he has helped Josh come along (deservedly so) and I would be shocked if he doesn't get a HC offer this off season.

 

 

 

 

Oh I agree with everything you said. I am not saying I do not get why his name is being brought up, I do. Also not trying to give credit/take anything away from Allen's improvement. I would just want to see more success/consistency, making sure this is not a flash before I would hand him the keys to my franchise.  

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machine gun kelly All Pro

machine gun kelly

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Patricia will not be our. DC.  McD is. Happy even if some here are not with Frazier’s performance.  Recently, even Sal said specifically on the Hawks game, we took the gloves off and became more aggressive.  I like what he was saying in that. McD is finally trusting this offense to keep up in scoring so the defense can take more chances.

 

Its not a surprise they fired these guys, although Kirwan even mentioned it’s not like anyone they would want can talk to them during the season.  About the only thing these firings mid season is put the players on notice, you are playing for you’re job as new management and coaching means no one owes you anything and doesn’t care about letting you go.

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Doc Hall of Famer

Doc

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8 hours ago, BillsShredder83 said:

Id be shocked.  I dont think even they are this disfunctional.  Get yourself a new coach and GM to pick THEIR qb at #1, and do NOT let Gase get within 5miles of him.  BUTTTTTTTT i hope youre right

 

Wait, I thought their GM was some wunderkind that some Bills fans wished we had?

 

7 hours ago, Mango said:

If I were an NFL owner I would need to see a lot more from Daboll at the moment. The offense is drastically improved this year, but just from a results stand point this is an anomaly in his career production. A second year showing the same consistency in passing attack and revamping the run game in the offseason, and I would be willing to pull the trigger. 

 

Which is why I said that coaches need players.  Look at his offensive rosters from 2011 with the Dols and 2012 with the Chefs. 

 

Now is Daboll a good coach?  I can't say for sure.  But I wouldn't go looking to replace him unless he leaves.

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CBennett Practice Squad

CBennett

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lol "the patriot's way" sounds like a lot of people(aka players) think it sucks...pretty damning that players were saving expensive Champagne for the end of the year when they were done and didnt have to play anymore to pop the cork...They really hated this guy and he never earned their respect..

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Hapless Bills Fan Hall of Famer

Hapless Bills Fan

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15 hours ago, FireChans said:

Numbers are objective.

 

Horse *****.

 

I say this as a lifelong numbers geek who spent a professional life analyzing numbers and presenting/interpreting data

 

Numbers are never meaningful in isolation.  They're always viewed and used in a context.  Pulling them out of context and throwing them around is bullgaffle, not objectivity.  Example: when someone starts to compare today's QB passing numbers to a 1980s era QB passing numbers, they're "objectively, better" but it's correctly pointed out that the passing game was different then, with different rules about roughing the passer and hitting defenseless players (receivers).

 

11 minutes ago, CBennett said:

lol "the patriot's way" sounds like a lot of people(aka players) think it sucks...pretty damning that players were saving expensive Champagne for the end of the year when they were done and didnt have to play anymore to pop the cork...They really hated this guy and he never earned their respect..

 

I didn't hear this.  Would like to hear more, got a reference?

 

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CBennett Practice Squad

CBennett

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2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Horse *****.

 

I say this as a lifelong numbers geek who spent a professional life analyzing numbers and presenting/interpreting data

 

Numbers are never meaningful in isolation.  They're always viewed and used in a context.  Pulling them out of context and throwing them around is bullgaffle.

 

I didn't hear this.  Would like to hear more, got a reference?

 

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/nfl-lions-reportedly-celebrated-away-matt-patricia-2018-mimosa-party-cam-newton-dance-215302941.html

It was the last day of 2018 and the NFL regular season was finished. A group of 10 to 15 Detroit Lions players broke out the mimosas.

Except this wasn’t a celebration of playoffs. The Lions disappointingly went 6-10 that season. It was, rather, a “cheers” to being away from head coach Matt Patricia at least temporarily.

The anecdote is detailed by the Bleacher Report’s Kalyn Kahler in a piece about Patricia’s attempt to bring “The Patriot Way” to Detroit. The Lions (3-5) hired Patricia ahead of the 2018 season and have gone 12-27-1 since then.

The mimosas, a culminating moment to various player stories of how Patricia made them unhappy or uncomfortable, were definitely not for winning.

Lions’ mimosa party about leaving Patricia

An unnamed player had a bottle of Champagne in his locker gifted to him by an agent for Christmas. He had been waiting for the right time to open it, and saying goodbye to Patricia warranted the pop.

Before the final team meeting on clean-out day, the 10-15 players made mimosas. Via Bleacher Report:

They chilled and sipped out of Solo cups, finally relaxing after a season of long practices, tough conditioning and routinely getting cussed at by their head coach, who had a long list of rules that a former player described as taking the fun out of the game. “It was a free-for-all,” he says. The stifling Patriot Way experience had been a culture shock many veteran players were elated to be done with.

“Didn't nobody care at that point,” says a former offensive player. “Everybody was glad to be out of the building and done.”

It wasn’t about another single-digit win season for the Lions players. Patricia, a disciple of New England Patriots coach Bill Belichick, had a communication style that didn’t sit well with players. Part of the issue was the transition from a “player’s-coach type” in Jim Caldwell to more of a strict, micromanaged approach.

 

 

 

https://fansided.com/2020/11/14/lions-players-seem-really-hate-matt-patricia/

Edited by CBennett
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YoloinOhio Hall of Famer

YoloinOhio

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8 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Horse *****.

 

I say this as a lifelong numbers geek who spent a professional life analyzing numbers and presenting/interpreting data

 

Numbers are never meaningful in isolation.  They're always viewed and used in a context.  Pulling them out of context and throwing them around is bullgaffle, not objectivity.  Example: when someone starts to compare today's QB passing numbers to a 1980s era QB passing numbers, they're "objectively, better" but it's correctly pointed out that the passing game was different then, with different rules about roughing the passer and hitting defenseless players (receivers).

 

 

I didn't hear this.  Would like to hear more, got a reference?

 

It’s in the “When the Patriot Way goes wrong” thread... deep dive into the Patricia administration on bleacher report. 

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Hapless Bills Fan Hall of Famer

Hapless Bills Fan

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14 minutes ago, CBennett said:

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/nfl-lions-reportedly-celebrated-away-matt-patricia-2018-mimosa-party-cam-newton-dance-215302941.html

 

 

Interesting.  There was apparently a similar "vibe" about McDaniels taking over the Broncos in 2009.  They had been a 9-7, 7-9, 8-8 team the 3 years previous.

McDaniels blew the place up and apparently there was a feeling that the baby went out with the bathwater at times.

 

It actually must be a tough challenge for a coach to take over a mediocre team vs. a losing team.

 

On the one hand, the former is seen as a team that just needs a few more pieces to take the next step, so there's bound to be resistance to doing things differently.

On the other hand, it's aptly said sometimes "Good is the Enemy of Great" and maybe to make that step, it's necessary to dig deep and re-build the foundation.

 

But clearly one aspect in an NFL locker room is the coach has to get the players to buy in and believe in whatever changes he needs to make.  It sounds as though Patricia (like McDaniels in Denver) did not achieve that.

 

It does say:

Since that locker room mimosa party, Patricia has made a genuine effort to relate to his players better and evolve his coaching style in light of all that went wrong his rookie year. But it doesn't seem to be making any difference on the field.

 

Give credit to McDermott, he understood that to make an organizational change, he needed to get enough veterans who would "buy in" in each position room and have position coaches who could relate to the players.  And he hasn't blinked about making changes when he felt he needed to.

 

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MrSarcasm RFA

MrSarcasm

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Posted

Patricia really had it easy over his coaching tenure with the Lions. 

 

1) He inherited an above average offense and good QB

2) Good players on D

3) Pretty patient ownership

 

Shows how bad he is/was as a coach.

Every area of that team got worse under his control. 

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CBennett Practice Squad

CBennett

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Just now, MrSarcasm said:

Patricia really had it easy over his coaching tenure with the Lions. 

 

1) He inherited an above average offense and good QB

2) Good players on D

3) Pretty patient ownership

 

Shows how bad he is/was as a coach.

Every area of that team got worse under his control. 

I think he thought he could walk in flash a SB ring and garner respect....players are only "falling for" the "Patriot way" if they have success under it....you come in like that dont do a single thing other than hey we won SB where I came from and we did it this way..type crap and thats all you have...then you DONT have the success...you lost the team/locker room.

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MJS Hall of Famer

MJS

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Posted
1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Horse *****.

 

I say this as a lifelong numbers geek who spent a professional life analyzing numbers and presenting/interpreting data

 

Numbers are never meaningful in isolation.  They're always viewed and used in a context.  Pulling them out of context and throwing them around is bullgaffle, not objectivity.  Example: when someone starts to compare today's QB passing numbers to a 1980s era QB passing numbers, they're "objectively, better" but it's correctly pointed out that the passing game was different then, with different rules about roughing the passer and hitting defenseless players (receivers).

 

I didn't hear this.  Would like to hear more, got a reference?

Agreed. I also work with data and I have come to the realization that you can use data and numbers to pretty much say anything you want. Data sets get sliced and diced and "cleaned" (or just outright ignored) until results are "statistically significant". And football stats are no different.

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