New resolution that rewards teams who "develop" minority coaches

[Process]

Holy cow is this stupid

 

1. Similar to the rooney rule, is this not racist? We need to reward teams for hiring minorities? Are they not equals? Also lmao at rewarding the teams who "develop" them to be head coaches. A very smart, hard working, black guy who is a great coach gets a head coaching job. Lets give the white coach and gm who "developed" him free draft picks. Yea, because they deserve a lot of credit for making a black guy head coaching material. Black people definitely can't achieve success on their own.

 

2. It could hurt there chances of getting head coaching jobs. If a team is deciding between a white coach from a non conference team and a black coach from a division rival, why would they choose the black coach and give them free draft picks?

 

3. Is this even going to work or change anything? I doubt it. 

 

 

[buffaloboyinATL]

Time to start pimping out Leslie Frazier...

[ALLEN1QB]

Definitely a strange time we are living in.

[dorquemada]

Hey I know how to solve all of the divisiveness in this country!  Let's divide people into smaller and smaller groups and play them off against each other!  It's bound to work!

[buffaloboyinATL]

So what happens if you “develop” a minority coach internally and promote them to a Coordinator or Head Coach position? Do you still get the picks? If so, Belicheck will start promoting multiple minority coaches to Defensive Coordinator every year and start stockpiling 3rd rounders. 

[Big Turk]

23 minutes ago, buffaloboyinATL said:

Time to start pimping out Leslie Frazier...

 

Would that even count since he already has been a HC?

[MJS]

14 minutes ago, buffaloboyinATL said:

So what happens if you “develop” a minority coach internally and promote them to a Coordinator or Head Coach position? Do you still get the picks? If so, Belicheck will start promoting multiple minority coaches to Defensive Coordinator every year and start stockpiling 3rd rounders. 

Has to be externally, I think.

[nedboy7]

Best not to get involved in this topic. 

[vtnatefootball11]

43 minutes ago, Process said:

Holy cow is this stupid

 

1. Similar to the rooney rule, is this not racist? We need to reward teams for hiring minorities? Are they not equals? Also lmao at rewarding the teams who "develop" them to be head coaches. A very smart, hard working, black guy who is a great coach gets a head coaching job. Lets give the white coach and gm who "developed" him free draft picks. Yea, because they deserve a lot of credit for making a black guy head coaching material. Black people definitely can't achieve success on their own.

 

2. It could hurt there chances of getting head coaching jobs. If a team is deciding between a white coach from a non conference team and a black coach from a division rival, why would they choose the black coach and give them free draft picks?

 

3. Is this even going to work or change anything? I doubt it. 

 

 

 

 

So I am entirely supportive of the initiative, and its unfortunate but sometimes you do need to give people a little push to do the right thing and force the issue.  More black people should be in NFL HC and GM positions right now, period.  With that said, your point #2 is incredibly valid and may actually deter/frustrate the purpose.  Would like to see the actual language of the rules, but it appears they really did not think this through. Maybe they should reward both the hiring and "developing" team, each get one 3rd round? 

[Richard Noggin]

Ohhh boy. So much I want to say to people who have not studied the topic of racial inequities and systemic prejudices and all that fun stuff.

 

But, as this is a football board and we are discouraged from political discourse, I'll simply say: I'm all for the NFL encouraging diversity in its coaching ranks. I am NOT sure that rewarding teams with competitive advantages in roster building is necessarily the way to do it, however. 

[Process]

14 minutes ago, nedboy7 said:

Best not to get involved in this topic. 

Why not? It's not just a race issue. Two third rounds picks is significant compensation. We are just going to start handing them out to teams for doing absolutely nothing?

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

33 minutes ago, Process said:

Holy cow is this stupid

 

1. Similar to the rooney rule, is this not racist? We need to reward teams for hiring minorities? Are they not equals? Also lmao at rewarding the teams who "develop" them to be head coaches. A very smart, hard working, black guy who is a great coach gets a head coaching job. Lets give the white coach and gm who "developed" him free draft picks. Yea, because they deserve a lot of credit for making a black guy head coaching material. Black people definitely can't achieve success on their own.

 

2. It could hurt there chances of getting head coaching jobs. If a team is deciding between a white coach from a non conference team and a black coach from a division rival, why would they choose the black coach and give them free draft picks?

 

3. Is this even going to work or change anything? I doubt it. 

 

 

 

Regarding 1 - How many current Offensive coordinators in the NFL are black?  Maybe 2?  How many Defensive?  Frasier, Joseph, Bowles, Norton?  I'm sure i missed someone in there - but if the candidate pool for black head coaches is 6 (3 of which have already been fired as HC's before) then the next few years is likely pretty bleak.  I think there are currently 2 black GMs?  The list of "up and comers" for GM, is also another list of white guys (Ed Dodds, Horitz, Borgonzi).  

 

2 - I'm not basing my head coaching search on a couple of 3rd round picks.  If the guy is right, it won't matter.  Plus they're comp picks, its not like you lose anything hiring him.

 

3 - I doubt it changes anything.  Just a box checked.  

 

Regarding Bieniemy - Someone will take a chance on him I think.  It's been long enough since his incidents that he's probably alright. 

 

 

[Richard Noggin]

Just now, Process said:

Why not? It's not just a race issue. Two third rounds picks is significant compensation. We are just going to start handing them out to teams for doing absolutely nothing?

 

You dropped some other low-hanging fruit in your post that moves this conversation into other fraught territory.

 

I don't disagree that the compensation side of this seems out of whack.

[Process]

1 minute ago, Richard Noggin said:

 

You dropped some other low-hanging fruit in your post that moves this conversation into other fraught territory.

 

I don't disagree that the compensation side of this seems out of whack.

Fair. 

[ColoradoBills]

So the NFL passed a resolution.  By NFL I would guess the owners.

It's their league and I would assume they like the idea.

[boater]

Two thirds?

 

Time to get Leslie Frazier down to Jos. A. Banks and dress him up.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

8 minutes ago, Process said:

Why not? It's not just a race issue. Two third rounds picks is significant compensation. We are just going to start handing them out to teams for doing absolutely nothing?

 

There were 5 new HCs in 2020 - the only minority was rivera.  So i doubt they get compensation for firing him anyway.  I think the last one would've been Flores in 2019.  Before that was Wilks in 2018.  

Not to get totally off topic - but i wonder if McD would bring Wilks in in some capacity?

[vtnatefootball11]

8 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

So the NFL passed a resolution.  By NFL I would guess the owners.

It's their league and I would assume they like the idea.

 

Yeah but is it a good, well thought out idea? Like did they really think it through, plug up all the loopholes, thing about unintended consequences, etc?  Without seeing the actual language of the rules, I'll say probably NOT.  As has been stated, compensation seems out of whack and it could very well deter teams in the same conference or divisions from actually hiring a minority coach. 

[JaCrispy]

If I’m the Bills, I tell Frazier to get his resume together...two 3rd round picks is nothing to sneeze at...😉

[Irv]

What does "develop" mean?  Sounds ridiculous.  That could mean anything. 

[machine gun kelly]

34 minutes ago, Richard Noggin said:

Ohhh boy. So much I want to say to people who have not studied the topic of racial inequities and systemic prejudices and all that fun stuff.

 

But, as this is a football board and we are discouraged from political discourse, I'll simply say: I'm all for the NFL encouraging diversity in its coaching ranks. I am NOT sure that rewarding teams with competitive advantages in roster building is necessarily the way to do it, however. 

Noggin, I read a couple of posts, and said, no, I’m staying away fro this one.  Well said though.  I hope overall as it’s not just coaches, but contributors that at a minimum something positive happens from it as we don’t make these decisions.  Back to ball.  Much less land mines there.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

1 hour ago, Process said:

Holy cow is this stupid

 

1. Similar to the rooney rule, is this not racist? We need to reward teams for hiring minorities? Are they not equals? Also lmao at rewarding the teams who "develop" them to be head coaches. A very smart, hard working, black guy who is a great coach gets a head coaching job. Lets give the white coach and gm who "developed" him free draft picks. Yea, because they deserve a lot of credit for making a black guy head coaching material. Black people definitely can't achieve success on their own.

 

2. It could hurt there chances of getting head coaching jobs. If a team is deciding between a white coach from a non conference team and a black coach from a division rival, why would they choose the black coach and give them free draft picks?

 

3. Is this even going to work or change anything? I doubt it. 

 

 

To your second point, this is going to be an obstacle to some guys getting jobs. I actually think this will hurt a guy like Bieniemy. Nobody is going to allow the chiefs to get two extra 3rd rounders. 
 

I can see teams playing games with this— like The new team will effectively force KC to fire Bieniemy first as a condition to hiring him. 

[DrDawkinstein]

41 minutes ago, Richard Noggin said:

 

You dropped some other low-hanging fruit in your post that moves this conversation into other fraught territory.

 

I don't disagree that the compensation side of this seems out of whack.

 

Exactly where I am on this thread.

 

I dont like the gifting of draft picks, especially for something as vague and subjective as "developing" someone.

 

But starting out calling the Rooney Rule racist means I'm not even touching it. Not worth the time.

[whatdrought]

Equality in opportunity does not = equality in result. 

Show us the minority candidates that have been passed over exclusively because of their race, and because of the racist intent of the hiring executive. 

[Vod Kanockers]

I’d like to see more white RB’s in the league. I can currently only think of 1 or 2. How do we do something about this? What about Hispanic or Hindu coaches? I can’t think of hardly any of them either. Do they get a Rooney rule? Doesn’t seem fair to their group. Nothing like complaining about not being equal, and then having your own set of rules.. 🤦‍♂️

[golfball323]

Surprised they didn't make it three fifths....

 

**ducks**

[ColoradoBills]

32 minutes ago, vtnatefootball11 said:

 

Yeah but is it a good, well thought out idea? Like did they really think it through, plug up all the loopholes, thing about unintended consequences, etc?  Without seeing the actual language of the rules, I'll say probably NOT.  As has been stated, compensation seems out of whack and it could very well deter teams in the same conference or divisions from actually hiring a minority coach. 

 

I truly don't know.  That's why my only comment was that the owners seem to think so and well,  they are the owners.

 

I am getting old enough I guess not to have to concern myself about things that I either can't control or the outcome doesn't really affect me.

 

The only thing I can say about the new "rule" is............ if a team thinks they are going to "game" the system for a couple of 3rd round picks by

hiring a coach who is lacking in talent well good luck to them because I think they are wrong with that train of thought.

[nedboy7]

3 minutes ago, Process said:

Why not? It's not just a race issue. Two third rounds picks is significant compensation. We are just going to start handing them out to teams for doing absolutely nothing?

 

Because of comments like these.

[mjd1001]

3rd round picks are a bit high. This isn't the NHL or NBA where anything other than a top 5 first rounder is a crapshoot.  In the NFL, 3rd and 4th round picks commonly become good, sometimes very good players and it is expected the contribute.  I'd say make it a 4th at the highest....a 4th round pick still is valuable in the NFL, those players often become starters....yet is isn't too much where a lot of team might try to take advantage of the rule.

[vtnatefootball11]

3 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

I truly don't know.  That's why my only comment was that the owners seem to think so and well,  they are the owners.

 

I am getting old enough I guess not to have to concern myself about things that I either can't control or the outcome doesn't really affect me.

 

The only thing I can say about the new "rule" is............ if a team thinks they are going to "game" the system for a couple of 3rd round picks by

hiring a coach who is lacking in talent well good luck to them because I think they are wrong with that train of thought.

 

Fair enough, not our problem I guess.  And I agree with you wholeheartedly that making decisions on anything other than merit rarely works out. But, gosh, are you really going to hand you division rival 2 third round picks if all else is equal or close between two HC/GH candidates?  I think it's pretty obvious how that will work out. 

 

Also, do you really not think someone like Belichick is not going to exploit the heck of this?  There can't possibly be enough third round picks in the world haha.  

[Saint Doug]

Can we make this retroactive for Anthony Lynn? Plus, if we had hired Lynn, would we have received the Brownie points? Would it be better off to let another team hire him then?

[whatdrought]

6 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

3rd round picks are a bit high. This isn't the NHL or NBA where anything other than a top 5 first rounder is a crapshoot.  In the NFL, 3rd and 4th round picks commonly become good, sometimes very good players and it is expected the contribute.  I'd say make it a 4th at the highest....a 4th round pick still is valuable in the NFL, those players often become starters....yet is isn't too much where a lot of team might try to take advantage of the rule.

 

That's kind of a flaw in the system though... If you believe that the disparity of minorities is caused by racist intent and is a huge and horrible issue, which the existence of such a rule would seem to imply, and if you believe that this solution would have any efficacy, which existence of would seem to indicate a perception that it shall - then morally speaking there is no reward too strong to fix this problem - a third then becomes too little. Make it a first. 2 Firsts. Give the teams that makes the first minority hire each offseason the first pick in the draft.

 

Project the idea to its natural conclusion. If this is the huge deal the NFL and media folks make it to be, then these rules are weak half measures. 

 

 

1 minute ago, Saint Doug said:

Can we make this retroactive for Anthony Lynn? Plus, if we had hired Lynn, would we have received the Brownie points? Would it be better off to let another team hire him then?

 

I heard they were going to make it retro-active and give us 2 thirds for Lynn, but that he lost them in the last second....

Edited November 11, 2020 by whatdrought

[buffaloboyinATL]

1 hour ago, matter2003 said:

 

Would that even count since he already has been a HC?

We might still be “developing” him. He’s a late bloomer. 

[SageAgainstTheMachine]

Wowzer.  When I first saw this headline I was prepared to defend it to the teeth, being someone who feels passionately about racial inequality and who thinks that there is inevitable bias in coaching hires when ownership is 100% white.

 

The thing is, attaching DRAFT STRATEGY to this concept is the single best way to muck it up.  

[The Wiz]

7 minutes ago, Saint Doug said:

Can we make this retroactive for Anthony Lynn? Plus, if we had hired Lynn, would we have received the Brownie points? Would it be better off to let another team hire him then?

[DrDawkinstein]

11 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

 

That's kind of a flaw in the system though... If you believe that the disparity of minorities is caused by racist intent and is a huge and horrible issue, which the existence of such a rule would seem to imply, and if you believe that this solution would have any efficacy, which existence of would seem to indicate a perception that it shall - then morally speaking there is no reward too strong to fix this problem - a third then becomes too little. Make it a first. 2 Firsts. Give the teams that makes the first minority hire each offseason the first pick in the draft.

 

Project the idea to its natural conclusion. If this is the huge deal the NFL and media folks make it to be, then these rules are weak half measures. 

 

 

 

I heard they were going to make it retro-active and give us 2 thirds for Lynn, but that he lost them in the last second....

 

I think you're being a little hyperbolic there. No one in the NFL denies that the coaching candidate circle is a good ol boys club that is very difficult to break into. It's not like teams post Head Coach openings to LinkedIn and Glassdoor. You must already be in the circle to ever get a chance.

 

Like the Rooney Rule, I believe this is an attempt to encourage teams to simply expand that circle, but with rewards instead of punishments. Not to solve some "huge problem of racism".

 

I dont think this solution is a great (or even good) idea with the way it's been laid out so far. But credit them for trying. They can always cut the program if it doesn't work out.

 

 

Edited November 11, 2020 by DrDawkinstein

[ColoradoBills]

10 minutes ago, vtnatefootball11 said:

 

Fair enough, not our problem I guess.  And I agree with you wholeheartedly that making decisions on anything other than merit rarely works out. But, gosh, are you really going to hand you division rival 2 third round picks if all else is equal or close between two HC/GH candidates?  I think it's pretty obvious how that will work out. 

 

Also, do you really not think someone like Belichick is not going to exploit the heck of this?  There can't possibly be enough third round picks in the world haha.  

 

BB can do whatever he wants.  I personally think he almost done coaching and he may go 1 more year to see if he can catch lighting in a bottle again

with a QB.  I don't see him winning 53 more games to surpass Shula.

[SageAgainstTheMachine]

2 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

I think you're being a little hyperbolic there. No one in the NFL denies that the coaching candidate circle is a good ol boys club that is very difficult to break into. It's not like teams post Head Coach openings to LinkedIn and Glassdoor. You must already be in the circle to ever get a chance.

 

Like the Rooney Rule, I believe this is an attempt to encourage teams to expand that circle with rewards instead of punishments. Not to solve some "huge problem of racism".

 

I dont think this solution is a great (or even good) idea with the way it's been laid out so far. But credit them for trying. They can always cut the program if it doesn't work out.

 

Agreed.  I think financial incentives would be great.  Two third-round draft picks is such a concrete and discretely valued commodity that the NFL is practically inviting immoral usage of the rule.  For example what division rival would EVER hire a minority coach from within the division?

[Doc Brown]

I have mixed feelings on this rule but if it makes Bill Belichick fire his son I'm for it.

[billsfan89]

45 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

To your second point, this is going to be an obstacle to some guys getting jobs. I actually think this will hurt a guy like Bieniemy. Nobody is going to allow the chiefs to get two extra 3rd rounders. 
 

I can see teams playing games with this— like The new team will effectively force KC to fire Bieniemy first as a condition to hiring him. 

 

I don't think anyone can force a team to fire someone. I think if you want to hire a coach you are going to hire them regardless of whomever might get extra picks. If you think Bieniemy is a genius offensive mind are you really going to not hire him and hire someone lesser because another team is going to get draft picks?

 

I do think the incentives should be adjusted to the team doing the hiring getting extra picks but I don't see this moving the needle too much in either direction.