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Week 10: Bills at Cardinals

YoloinOhio

By YoloinOhio
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stevewin
stevewin

Cards going to have to game plan around Klein

Doc Brown
Doc Brown

Give me Allen in a dome any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

MJS
MJS

Another tough opponent. Could go either way. But I expect the Bills to go win it.   But seriously, people, if we lose can we not go back to the "fire McDermott" and "Josh Allen sucks" talk?

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97bills Veteran

97bills

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2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Why do you think Tre is out?  It's Norman and Wallace, with Hyde questionable and his backup (Marlow) also out.  See Sal C's very useful list upthread.

Even so we’ve got to get better at corner whites going to have he’s hands full and our 2-3 corners are going to be toast. I hope we can get pressure and score at a hi level. Go bills 

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RochesterLifer RFA

RochesterLifer

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56 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

I hope the coaches and team are successful in not being gobsmacked by this and in keeping up their spirits or even getting a bit of an "edge" to their play because of it

 

This touches on one of the reasons I have such high optimism and confidence in Beane, McDermott and the staff. They seem to face challenges with strength, always viewing the “opportunity” aspect of what is in front of them. This strikes me as a very smart and serious minded leadership team.

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Hapless Bills Fan Hall of Famer

Hapless Bills Fan

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27 minutes ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:

that has me wondering the % of former Panthers players brought in worked and flopped in Buffalo 

 

I'm not sure that's asking quite the right question. 

 

Every team brings in camp fodder guys, guys who fill the roster during training camp.  No big deal, why not bring in guys you know something about, especially when you're trying to change a team's culture?

 

Then there are the guys we sign who are significant expenditures of cap $$ and roster spots.

 

What I'm saying is to figure out how successful or unsuccessful our "Carolina North" player personnel strategy has been, you probably don't want to examine the percentage of Captain Munnerlyns or the Kaelyn Clays or the Dean Marlowes who have been successful.

 

You probably want to look at the guys we either traded for or signed for more than vet minimum dollars -  Kelvin Benjamin, Star Lotulelei, Derek Anderson, Josh Norman, Vernon Butler, AJ Klein, Mario Addison.

 

Or maybe not.

 

Anyway here's a list, though I think there are a few more on there now

 

 

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JGMcD2 Veteran

JGMcD2

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19 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I'm not sure that's asking quite the right question. 

 

Every team brings in camp fodder guys, guys who fill the roster during training camp.  No big deal, why not bring in guys you know something about, especially when you're trying to change a team's culture?

 

Then there are the guys we sign who are significant expenditures of cap $$ and roster spots.

 

What I'm saying is to figure out how successful or unsuccessful our "Carolina North" player personnel strategy has been, you probably don't want to examine the percentage of Captain Munnerlyns or the Kaelyn Clays or the Dean Marlowes who have been successful.

 

You probably want to look at the guys we either traded for or signed for more than vet minimum dollars -  Kelvin Benjamin, Star Lotulelei, Derek Anderson, Josh Norman, Vernon Butler, AJ Klein, Mario Addison.

 

Or maybe not.

 

Anyway here's a list, though I think there are a few more on there now

 

 

Preach Hap! 
 

Very well put. I’d even exclude 1-year deals as well... it’s just depth. Anderson, Daryl Williams, Josh Norman. Low-risk and high-reward. 
 

Williams panned out, Norman didn’t. But the point is they’re not going to kill you if they don’t pan out. 
 

I’m pretty sure Anderson was in response to Allen’s partially torn UCL from the Texans game? I may be wrong... he was a signing so far off the beaten path I never really considered him a substantial investment. 
 

I think I said it before... in years 1-3 of McDermott they brought in 17 former Panthers... two of which remain in the organization... Star and Dean Marlowe. They also let Marlowe go for a bit and brought him back this season. It’s really been a ton of depth type guys until this year and even now there’s still only like 8 former Panthers in the organization. 3 of them are depth guys (Smith, Marlowe, Worley), 1 of them opted out of the season (Star), 1 has barely played (Norman) and the other three are Klein, Addison and Williams. Addison has been consistent which is his MO, Klein has been everyone’s whipping boy and rightfully so and people on this board are campaigning for Williams to get $10-$12M a year. 
 

EDIT: Oops forgot Vernon Butler. 

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ShakAttack RFA

ShakAttack

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The hardest part is, when the day started it seemed like we were going to be healthier than we had been in weeks against the Cards, and that they would have more issues with injuries than we did. One step forward, two steps back. Always seems to be the case for the bills with injuries (and now covid)... except for 2019.

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Hapless Bills Fan Hall of Famer

Hapless Bills Fan

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1 hour ago, JGMcD2 said:

Preach Hap! 
 

Very well put. I’d even exclude 1-year deals as well... it’s just depth. Anderson, Daryl Williams, Josh Norman. Low-risk and high-reward. 
 

Williams panned out, Norman didn’t. But the point is they’re not going to kill you if they don’t pan out. 
 

I’m pretty sure Anderson was in response to Allen’s partially torn UCL from the Texans game? I may be wrong... he was a signing so far off the beaten path I never really considered him a substantial investment. 
 

I think I said it before... in years 1-3 of McDermott they brought in 17 former Panthers... two of which remain in the organization... Star and Dean Marlowe. They also let Marlowe go for a bit and brought him back this season. It’s really been a ton of depth type guys until this year and even now there’s still only like 8 former Panthers in the organization. 3 of them are depth guys (Smith, Marlowe, Worley), 1 of them opted out of the season (Star), 1 has barely played (Norman) and the other three are Klein, Addison and Williams. Addison has been consistent which is his MO, Klein has been everyone’s whipping boy and rightfully so and people on this board are campaigning for Williams to get $10-$12M a year. 
 

EDIT: Oops forgot Vernon Butler. 

 

Anderson was signed in early October, a couple weeks before Allen got injured, when the Clue Bird perched on Beane's earlob and chirped when you got a young rookie who barely knows how the highest level of college competition prepares and the other QB got the hook halfway through the season opener, you really need a vet to show the kid how to get it done as far as daily and weekly prep.  I'm still salty that the Bills didn't do a better job filling that need before the season but my only problem with Anderson was that they didn't bring him, or someone like him, in sooner.

 

I think you include the Josh Normans, Daryl Williams, Derek Anderson etc.   They're brought in to fill a perceived need to upgrade performance and/or a veteran presence at their positions.  If you didn't bring in Josh Norman for $5.7M, you trade for or bring in someone else.  These are guys we need performance from.  Certainly paying Norman that much is part of our current $3M cap space which perhaps kept us from making other moves to bolster the roster. 

 

On the other hand, signing ex-panther Daryl Worley to the practice squad is a low-risk deal where previous familiarity is a plus.

 

The flip side people don't bring up is, how many similar guys did we sign from other organizations and what was their success or failure rate?  See aforementioned AJ McCarron...Quinton Spain this season...it's not like ex-players are the only guys we sign (sometimes for good money) who for one or another reason, disappoint.

 

 

 

 

22 minutes ago, TroutDog said:

The pictures in the Bills app shows Christian Wade going with them: do PS players normally travel?

 

That's a really good question.  I didn't think that the PS guys traveled, but I also saw Mike Love, who is a PS DE.

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atlbillsfan1975 All Pro

atlbillsfan1975

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7 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Anderson was signed in early October, a couple weeks before Allen got injured, when the Clue Bird perched on Beane's earlob and chirped when you got a young rookie who barely knows how the highest level of college competition prepares and the other QB got the hook halfway through the season opener, you really need a vet to show the kid how to get it done as far as daily and weekly prep.  I'm still salty that the Bills didn't do a better job filling that need before the season but my only problem with Anderson was that they didn't bring him, or someone like him, in sooner.

 

I think you include the Josh Normans, Daryl Williams, Derek Anderson etc.   They're brought in to fill a perceived need to upgrade performance and/or a veteran presence at their positions.  If you didn't bring in Josh Norman for $5.7M, you trade for or bring in someone else.  These are guys we need performance from.  Certainly paying Norman that much is part of our current $3M cap space which perhaps kept us from making other moves to bolster the roster. 

 

On the other hand, signing ex-panther Daryl Worley to the practice squad is a low-risk deal where previous familiarity is a plus.

 

The flip side people don't bring up is, how many similar guys did we sign from other organizations and what was their success or failure rate?  See aforementioned AJ McCarron...Quinton Spain this season...it's not like ex-players are the only guys we sign (sometimes for good money) who for one or another reason, disappoint.

 

 

 

 

 

That's a really good question.  I didn't think that the PS guys traveled, but I also saw Mike Love, who is a PS DE.

Is this maybe a little extra juice for the sidelines? It is a big game. 8-2 and go into the bye on a high note. Sit back, heal up, hope for a couple key losses by other teams. Come back for the stretch to try and compete for home field advantage in the playoffs. 

Edited by atlbillsfan1975
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JGMcD2 Veteran

JGMcD2

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26 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Anderson was signed in early October, a couple weeks before Allen got injured, when the Clue Bird perched on Beane's earlob and chirped when you got a young rookie who barely knows how the highest level of college competition prepares and the other QB got the hook halfway through the season opener, you really need a vet to show the kid how to get it done as far as daily and weekly prep.  I'm still salty that the Bills didn't do a better job filling that need before the season but my only problem with Anderson was that they didn't bring him, or someone like him, in sooner.

 

I think you include the Josh Normans, Daryl Williams, Derek Anderson etc.   They're brought in to fill a perceived need to upgrade performance and/or a veteran presence at their positions.  If you didn't bring in Josh Norman for $5.7M, you trade for or bring in someone else.  These are guys we need performance from.  Certainly paying Norman that much is part of our current $3M cap space which perhaps kept us from making other moves to bolster the roster. 

 

On the other hand, signing ex-panther Daryl Worley to the practice squad is a low-risk deal where previous familiarity is a plus.

 

The flip side people don't bring up is, how many similar guys did we sign from other organizations and what was their success or failure rate?  See aforementioned AJ McCarron...Quinton Spain this season...it's not like ex-players are the only guys we sign (sometimes for good money) who for one or another reason, disappoint.

 

 

 

 

 

That's a really good question.  I didn't think that the PS guys traveled, but I also saw Mike Love, who is a PS DE.

I agree they mishandled the QB room with Josh early... I know they wanted to sign Fitz/McCown and it didn’t work out. They traded McCarron which defeated the purpose of bringing him in. 
 

Although, the whole mentoring thing is a little overblown IMO. You definitely need leaders in the locker room but it’s not always position to position. See Mario Addison comforting Josh after his grandmother passing. Josh seems to have developed just fine without a real veteran QB around the mentor him. 
 

Josh is Josh because he’s Josh. Point being, guys can learn how to do things the right way from guys who play different positions, ultimately it falls on the person who’s making the adjustments to actually make them. That Larry Fitz interview with Kim Pegula went into how Kurt Warner mentored him and in return he’s mentoring Kyler Murray in his own way. 
 

Josh was never going to fail because he didn’t have another older QB showing him the ropes. That’s what the coaching staff is for... if they’re not teaching a guy how to prepare that’s on them... it helps to have a player... but what we know about Josh... he was going to take care of it himself and absorb information from whomever gave it to him. He’s not the uncoachable type. 
 

Norman was brought in like Kevin Johnson to create completion for the CB2 role. Levi had his ups and downs last year but bringing in Norman was an attempt to elevate competition. I guess I’m more laissez faire when it comes to 1 year deals... I see them all as flier type deals. The market is limited each year, in terms of talent and talent at each position. You’re bringing in a guy to compete and if it doesn’t pan out there are no long term ramifications. If they do pan out, it helps you until you can find a long term solution. 
 

The whole current cap situation is WAY overblown... I mean seriously. Nobody coming in mid-season is going to be such a massive upgrade over the current personnel on any roster unless you’re trading for a real difference maker. It’s just way overblown. You spend money on guys and they get hurt or don’t perform... that’s the nature of professional sports. Looking at it from the lens of hindsight just doesn’t work. 
 

Otherwise, I agree wholeheartedly with you on the Panthers stuff. Really great point on the impact of signings from other teams... much better comparison for success. 

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BillsFan619

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59 minutes ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

Is this maybe a little extra juice for the sidelines? It is a big game. 8-2 go into the bye on a high note. Sit back, heal up, hope for a couple key losses. Come back for the stretch to try and compete for home field advantage in the playoffs. 

Yeah, I agree. I still feel like we’ll be in a good position even if we lose tomorrow but 8-2 would be awfully nice.

 

Go, Go Buffalo!

2 hours ago, CEN-CAL17 said:

Bills need to put up 40+ Pts to have a chance.... 

I’m thinking more like 30 points but I see what you’re getting at.

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CEN-CAL17

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18 minutes ago, BillsFan619 said:

Yeah, I agree. I still feel like we’ll be in a good position even if we lose tomorrow but 8-2 would be awfully nice.

 

Go, Go Buffalo!

I’m thinking more like 30 points but I see what you’re getting at.

Buffalo has to run the ball... effectively. Eat up the clock, but then also pass the ball. Gotta confuse there defense. But we can’t get in a shoot out with them.... this is not a good matchup right now.

 

If the bills can kill the clock and score TDs, great. But also contain Murray, keep him in the pocket. On the RPOs he loves to keep it, I say just always lean on him. Then rally to the RB up the middle.....

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Hapless Bills Fan Hall of Famer

Hapless Bills Fan

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1 hour ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

Is this maybe a little extra juice for the sidelines? It is a big game. 8-2 go into the bye on a high note. Sit back, heal up, hope for a couple key losses. Come back for the stretch to try and compete for home field advantage in the playoffs. 

 

I don't know.  I was wondering if it's a new part of the covid-19 protocol when game-day testing was implemented.  If a player tests positive on gameday and that player and his contacts are out of it, does the team get to elevate more PS guys?  Which, obviously, would only work if the PS guys are in town.

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BillsFan619 Veteran

BillsFan619

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45 minutes ago, CEN-CAL17 said:

Buffalo has to run the ball... effectively. Eat up the clock, but then also pass the ball. Gotta confuse there defense. But we can’t get in a shoot out with them.... this is not a good matchup right now.

 

If the bills can kill the clock and score TDs, great. But also contain Murray, keep him in the pocket. On the RPOs he loves to keep it, I say just always lean on him. Then rally to the RB up the middle.....

What’s the reason you don’t think we could win in a shoot-out? We’ve already done it a few times this year.

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nucci Hall of Famer

nucci

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6 hours ago, CEN-CAL17 said:

Buffalo has to run the ball... effectively. Eat up the clock, but then also pass the ball. Gotta confuse there defense. But we can’t get in a shoot out with them.... this is not a good matchup right now.

 

If the bills can kill the clock and score TDs, great. But also contain Murray, keep him in the pocket. On the RPOs he loves to keep it, I say just always lean on him. Then rally to the RB up the middle.....

so we have to run, pass and score TDs?

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Chandler#81 Hall of Famer

Chandler#81

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3rd of 4 Out of Conference games against their best Division. We’re currently 2-0. Cards are an up & comer but they lost to Miami last week, making it more important to win today. We’re depleted (Covid-19 & injuries) and I fear a ‘run for the ‘Bye Bus’ performance McDermott alluded to in his post game locker room speech. Arizona allows fans and their real field on a transporting trolley is something to behold.

 

 

I hope so. Kyler presents uniques challenges which require spying and their WRs are excellent.

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atlbillsfan1975 All Pro

atlbillsfan1975

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This is one of those games that will continue to enforce this is a new era for the Bills. Buffalo should win this game. Murray is the X factor for sure. He is one of a handful of players in the league who can take over a game. Unfortunately for the Cards, we got one of those too! 
 

Go Bills!!

Edited by atlbillsfan1975
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thebandit27 Hall of Famer

thebandit27

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15 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Holy hell. Bills may give up 50 points tomorrow.  Only hope is Bills offense wins TOP by 10+ minutes 


Ok honestly, had any team in the entire NFL given up 50 yet this year, despite how massively scoring is up across the league?

 

I think you’re overstating what not having Levi Wallace and Dean Marlowe means by a significant margin.

8 hours ago, CEN-CAL17 said:

Buffalo has to run the ball... effectively. Eat up the clock, but then also pass the ball. Gotta confuse there defense. But we can’t get in a shoot out with them.... this is not a good matchup right now.

 

If the bills can kill the clock and score TDs, great. But also contain Murray, keep him in the pocket. On the RPOs he loves to keep it, I say just always lean on him. Then rally to the RB up the middle.....


I see what you’re doing here 🤣

 

On a serious note: same plan as last week—just score every time you touch the ball and you’re very unlikely to lose.

13 hours ago, njbuff said:

You think Neal can play outside, or no shot?


I think it’s Jackson and Worley on the boundary today. I’m betting Neal takes the Dean Marlowe role. If Hyde can’t go I think you’ll see Jaquan there primarily.

 

Looking like a lot of Cloud when they go to Cover 3 as opposed to the Sky that they like to mix in...hopefully they can be as effective in their coverage disguises as typical.

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finn Veteran

finn

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I was impressed that the Bills offense went from a very-run heavy game against the Pats directly to a very pass-heavy game against the Seahawk. Daboll is innovative and flexible, a dangerous combination when you're on the other side. I can see him keeping the Cardinals off balance with some new twists today, maybe bringing Dawson into the game in deep outs (and making him earn his pay finally; I bet he's desperate to prove himself). I'd say look for a lot of Singletary, Moss and designed QB runs today. I'd love to see some sweeps and screens, too, especially some more "Smoke screens." On defense, losing Wallace may be more of a plus than a minus, sorry to say. He has value as a nickel back, maybe in Tauron's role, but that's about it. Marlowe and Wallace are the real losses. Bad timing. I wonder if Jaquon Johnson will finally get his chance. He's very small but very talented. 

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Chandler#81 Hall of Famer

Chandler#81

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8 minutes ago, finn said:

I was impressed that the Bills offense went from a very-run heavy game against the Pats directly to a very pass-heavy game against the Seahawk. Daboll is innovative and flexible, a dangerous combination when you're on the other side. I can see him keeping the Cardinals off balance with some new twists today, maybe bringing Dawson into the game in deep outs (and making him earn his pay finally; I bet he's desperate to prove himself). I'd say look for a lot of Singletary, Moss and designed QB runs today. I'd love to see some sweeps and screens, too, especially some more "Smoke screens." On defense, losing Wallace may be more of a plus than a minus, sorry to say. He has value as a nickel back, maybe in Tauron's role, but that's about it. Marlowe and Wallace are the real losses. Bad timing. I wonder if Jaquon Johnson will finally get his chance. He's very small but very talented. 

Nice!

2 minutes ago, TBBills said:

I have a feeling Kyler is going to look very average today.

I hope you’re right. I fear a flat performance by us ahead of the Bye..

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TBBills All Pro

TBBills

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1 minute ago, Chandler#81 said:

Nice!

I hope you’re right. I fear a flat performance by us ahead of the Bye..

I just can't handle a week of "See this is why we never trust the Bills" all over the TV.

 

I stop watching and listening to sports for 4 days after a Bills loss... Long week at work this week, really need a win.

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Chandler#81 Hall of Famer

Chandler#81

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Just now, TBBills said:

I just can't handle a week of "See this is why we never trust the Bills" all over the TV.

 

I stop watching and listening to sports for 4 days after a Bills loss... Long week at work this week, really need a win.

well, we have a history.. 🤦‍♂️

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TBBills All Pro

TBBills

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8 hours ago, CEN-CAL17 said:

Buffalo has to run the ball... effectively. Eat up the clock, but then also pass the ball. Gotta confuse there defense. But we can’t get in a shoot out with them.... this is not a good matchup right now.

 

If the bills can kill the clock and score TDs, great. But also contain Murray, keep him in the pocket. On the RPOs he loves to keep it, I say just always lean on him. Then rally to the RB up the middle.....

So what you are saying is the Bills can win if they score more points than the Cardinals.

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