Tonight exposed again we need a no1 back

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

Moss isn’t great at anything.

 

Qhats he have like 15 career carries?

[TwistofFate]

7 hours ago, Bangarang said:

Our run blocking is atrocious. I’d say we should try and fix that first. Our lines look soft as hell out there.

This line can't run block to save its life. Pass blocking is a different story, but, they can't get out of their own way on run plays.  They have been suspect all season in the run game. 

 

How many times have run plays been blown up in the backfield this year?  No push at all. 

[FireChans]

3 minutes ago, dneveu said:

 

Qhats he have like 15 career carries?

So how are we calling him great at anything?

[spartacus]

we have run 1 pseudo draw in 5 games

 

with as much as we pass, draws should work well

 

 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

10 minutes ago, FireChans said:

So how are we calling him great at anything?

 

I suppose that's fair. He has made plays in his college career. I don't think anyone would've made plays yesterday tho

[Chuck Wagon]

I know "never sign a running back in FA", but if Aaron Jones hits the market, he would be my first call.

 

More under the radar, but I think Gus Edwards is good and underutilized in Baltimore.

[MAJBobby]

Do not revert to a run first offense. 

[Agent 91]

1 hour ago, bmur66 said:

I thought Williams had the RT spot locked down. Was he rotating with someone? If so I didn't notice.

I think its by default. Nsheke can't stay healthy and Ford has to play guard. Williams is probably the best of the 3, but I would like to think they want to get better over there

[Mango]

7 hours ago, BillsfaninSB said:

Isn’t he injured?

 

I don't think so anymore. I think if he were still on IR/injured there would have to be an injury settlement. So he was eligible to come back week 5. I assume he was cleared to play then released. 

Could be wrong on this, I will let one of the gurus correct me on this. 

[Mango]

8 hours ago, ColeB said:

For one carry that he lost like 3 yards, I reran several times to see what happened.  It wasn’t the O-line or Singletary per se.  The DB came right up to the line on the outside, then run blitzed.  A play action would’ve left them short on coverage unless another defender went back.  (Can’t check. I deleted the game immediately) This has me wondering if a tell has been identified with one or more of the Bills offense regarding a pass VS a run.  that DB didn’t hesitate at all as if he knew it was a run.

 

Singletary is pretty terrible in pass protection. So you can kind of start there. If he is in the backfield he is probably running the ball. It is why he went entire drives without a touch. We were playing from behind and had to throw. He would have been a liability. 

[Ramza86]

This oline is still not good. 

 

Being better than last year is a plus yes....but it still not a good one in relation to the rest of the league. 

 

Getting in 1 or 2 really good guys would help this team dearly. 

[SCBills]

Tonight exposed the loss of John Brown, and what happens when the offense is not focused.. 7 drops, multiple penalties and turnovers.  

 

Could the run game be better, of course... Needing to get our #2 WR healthy and playing with more focus is what separated us from 16 points against the Titans and 30+

[Hapless Bills Fan]

10 hours ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

If defenses are at the point now where they respect Josh not to play us man...and are going to run basically a cover 2 shell and force us to nickel and dime the way down the field...we need a running game more then ever...love Motor but he’s ideally a no2 hopefully Moss or Yeldon get more touches 

 

I"m not persuaded that the problem with the run game is the back.

It's hard to make any yards when you're met in the backfield, or when you run into your blocker's frannies

 

56 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

Singletary is pretty terrible in pass protection. So you can kind of start there. If he is in the backfield he is probably running the ball. It is why he went entire drives without a touch. We were playing from behind and had to throw. He would have been a liability. 

 

And yet, I've seen some good blocks from him in the pass game this year and he's clearly worked on it a lot.

In fact I think others called his blocking out as being a small bright spot in the game.

 

Could you give a couple examples from this game (or Raiders) where you feel he was a liability?

 

Per the personnel grouping data at Sharp Football, we rush 42% of the time from a 1-1 set (71% of our offensive plays) and 25% of the time from a 1-0 set (21% of our offensive plays.  I believe Singletary is usually the lone back in these sets. 

 

Against the Raiders and last night, he was on the field for 89% of the offensive snaps.

 

These data would seem to argue that in fact, Singletary is on the field quite a lot during pass plays.

 

 

[Mango]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I"m not persuaded that the problem with the run game is the back.

It's hard to make any yards when you're met in the backfield, or when you run into your blocker's frannies

 

 

And yet, I've seen some good blocks from him in the pass game this year and he's clearly worked on it a lot.

In fact I think others called his blocking out as being a small bright spot in the game.

 

Could you give a couple examples from this game (or Raiders) where you feel he was a liability?

 

Per the personnel grouping data at Sharp Football, we rush 42% of the time from a 1-1 set (71% of our offensive plays) and 25% of the time from a 1-0 set (21% of our offensive plays.  I believe Singletary is usually the lone back in these sets. 

 

Against the Raiders and last night, he was on the field for 89% of the offensive snaps.

 

These data would seem to argue that in fact, Singletary is on the field quite a lot during pass plays.

 

 

I agree he has been better this year in PP. He got a lot more snaps when Moss went down. Unsure where you are getting the snap count number for the Titans game. The only thing I could find that has been updated since last night is Buffalo Rumblings (so take that with a grain of salt) and has DS at 62% of snaps for the game. 

My original comment is a bit of recency bias since Singletary seemed rarely on the field the second half last night on top of Yeldon having a better game on the ground. To your point I think it was Yeldon who gave Tennessee a free run at Josh in the second half. 

I will have to go back and take a look at the game again to see if my feels actually equal reals. 

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

Dress Lee Smith as a FB and stop trying to run out of the spread with no FB

[Figster]

7 hours ago, TwistofFate said:

This line can't run block to save its life. Pass blocking is a different story, but, they can't get out of their own way on run plays.  They have been suspect all season in the run game. 

 

How many times have run plays been blown up in the backfield this year?  No push at all. 

A Big bruiser like Derrick Henry can make an average run blocking Oline look good IMO.

 

I agree with OP to an extent. Its not that I don't think Singletary should be the featured back. I believe a big down hill runner is needed to complete the 1, 2 punch IMO. 

[Beast]

I believe we are fine at RB though I do believe, even in a blowout loss, Yeldon showed why he should get a few more touches a game.

 

His fumblitis last pre-season really cost him.

Edited October 14, 2020 by Beast

[billsfan89]

19 hours ago, Bangarang said:

Our run blocking is atrocious. I’d say we should try and fix that first. Our lines look soft as hell out there.

 

Hoping Mongo can help there, he was a beast run blocker last year. Other than that I think there isn't much out there. O-line is good at pass pro but isn't really mauling in the ground game. Mongo might be able to help a bit.

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

19 hours ago, Freddie's Dead said:

We have one.  His name is Devin Singletary.  We don't run him enough, and when we do, there is no hole for him to run through.  Thurman Thomas in his prime couldn't get yards behind this OL.

Don't ever say that again.

[BADOLBILZ]

18 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

They did it because the Titans were giving up 5.8 yards/carry. Apparently Daboll didn't get the memo that his OL is incapable of any form of run blocking. 

 

 

And the Bills QB was averaging 9 yards per attempt and the Titans were down Adoree Jackson at CB and their best DL.    

 

Daboll played away from the Bills offensive strength when he certainly didn't need to.

 

And he seemingly failed to take into account that the Bills defense was beleaguered coming into the game and really needed a night of just rushing the passer and keeping pass plays in front of them.   You do that by putting points on the board, not trying to execute 12 play drives.

 

Just a stupid and out of touch gameplan.    Like I said.........reminiscent of the Thursday night game versus the Jets in 2017.   These mid-week games are something that McD and company have to figure out.  

[Da webster guy]

On 10/14/2020 at 12:28 AM, jlgarsh said:

They should sign Bell. They have nothing to lose. Really need an LB too though

 

They would lose self respect, team chemistry and millions of dollars.

 

Bell is awful. He was in a perfect and rare situation at Pitt which doesnt exist anymore.

 

Our running game will get back on track, Mongo is a huge upgrade over Spencer Long and Moss hasn't really had a chance to groove yet.  Gotta be patient.

 

 

[Coach Tuesday]

4 minutes ago, Da webster guy said:

 

They would lose self respect, team chemistry and millions of dollars.

 

Bell is awful. He was in a perfect and rare situation at Pitt which doesnt exist anymore.

 

Our running game will get back on track, Mongo is a huge upgrade over Spencer Long and Moss hasn't really had a chance to groove yet.  Gotta be patient.

 

 

I’m not advocating signing him but Bell is not awful.  I think he’s still the best pass-catching RB in the league and he might be worth signing for that aspect alone.

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

Hopefully Moss is healthy and we can see what he can do with 15 carries. 

[dave mcbride]

12 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

And the Bills QB was averaging 9 yards per attempt and the Titans were down Adoree Jackson at CB and their best DL.    

 

Daboll played away from the Bills offensive strength when he certainly didn't need to.

 

And he seemingly failed to take into account that the Bills defense was beleaguered coming into the game and really needed a night of just rushing the passer and keeping pass plays in front of them.   You do that by putting points on the board, not trying to execute 12 play drives.

 

Just a stupid and out of touch gameplan.    Like I said.........reminiscent of the Thursday night game versus the Jets in 2017.   These mid-week games are something that McD and company have to figure out.  

I am going to challenge you here. The LAST thing Daboll wanted was 12-play drives. Watch the Simms video that Thurman posted. The big plays just weren’t there given the scheme TN was running. 

[BADOLBILZ]

3 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

I am going to challenge you here. The LAST thing Daboll wanted was 12-play drives. Watch the Simms video that Thurman posted. The big plays just weren’t there given the scheme TN was running. 

 

 

I was specifically talking about the beginning of the game...........the typically "scripted" portion...........and while I know that Daboll isn't actually trying to grind out 12 play drives you need to know that that's what it's going to take if you are trying to run the ball when it's your offensive weakness.

 

They lost this game in the first few drives by playing against their strength.    

 

As I said in an earlier post.......once they dug themselves a deficit and went empty backfield the Titans just stayed back and took away the big play opportunities.   

  

[SWATeam]

6 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I was specifically talking about the beginning of the game...........the typically "scripted" portion...........and while I know that Daboll isn't actually trying to grind out 12 play drives you need to know that that's what it's going to take if you are trying to run the ball when it's your offensive weakness.

 

They lost this game in the first few drives by playing against their strength.    

 

As I said in an earlier post.......once they dug themselves a deficit and went empty backfield the Titans just stayed back and took away the big play opportunities.   

  

lol.  The scripted plays consisted of a pass (that would have been a first down) bouncing off of the receivers hands for an INT- and then a TD drive...  Please.

[dave mcbride]

9 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I was specifically talking about the beginning of the game...........the typically "scripted" portion...........and while I know that Daboll isn't actually trying to grind out 12 play drives you need to know that that's what it's going to take if you are trying to run the ball when it's your offensive weakness.

 

They lost this game in the first few drives by playing against their strength.    

 

As I said in an earlier post.......once they dug themselves a deficit and went empty backfield the Titans just stayed back and took away the big play opportunities.   

  

The Titans were playing coverage from the get-go with a cover-two shell. You should be able to run against that type of defense with ease, particularly given that they had been giving up 5.8 yards per rush going into that game. Tuesday the Bills found out that they are in fact a really bad rushing team. Hence the pursuit of Bell, a significant upgrade over what they have. If they don't get Bell, I won't be surprised if we see more of Yeldon going forward given that he's actually a good receiver. 

[BADOLBILZ]

4 minutes ago, SWATeam said:

lol.  The scripted plays consisted of a pass (that would have been a first down) bouncing off of the receivers hands for an INT- and then a TD drive...  Please.

 

 

Typically the first 12-15 plays are scripted.  

 

You are talking about play #3.  

 

But yes by that point they should have tossed that sh*tty script.   

 

 

 

[dave mcbride]

1 minute ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Typically the first 12-15 plays are scripted.  

 

You are talking about play #3.  

 

But yes by that point they should have tossed that sh*tty script.   

 

 

 

They should have been at the 45 yard line after 3 plays. That's not bad! Unfortunately a non-receiver playing receiver was the target of the play.

[SWATeam]

1 minute ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Typically the first 12-15 plays are scripted.  

 

You are talking about play #3.  

 

But yes by that point they should have tossed that sh*tty script.   

 

 

 

I'm talking about play three, and then the entirety of their second drive which ended in a TD.

[billspro]

On 10/13/2020 at 9:04 PM, Freddie's Dead said:

We have one.  His name is Devin Singletary.  We don't run him enough, and when we do, there is no hole for him to run through.  Thurman Thomas in his prime couldn't get yards behind this OL.

Singletary has been an issue this year

4 hours ago, Da webster guy said:

 

They would lose self respect, team chemistry and millions of dollars.

 

Bell is awful. He was in a perfect and rare situation at Pitt which doesnt exist anymore.

 

Our running game will get back on track, Mongo is a huge upgrade over Spencer Long and Moss hasn't really had a chance to groove yet.  Gotta be patient.

 

 

I have to disagree. Bell would take this offence to another level. Singletary and Moss aren’t near the back Bell is. Our culture can handle his personality.

[BADOLBILZ]

9 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

The Titans were playing coverage from the get-go with a cover-two shell. You should be able to run against that type of defense with ease, particularly given that they had been giving up 5.8 yards per rush going into that game. Tuesday the Bills found out that they are in fact a really bad rushing team. Hence the pursuit of Bell, a significant upgrade over what they have. If they don't get Bell, I won't be surprised if we see more of Yeldon going forward given that he's actually a good receiver. 

 

 

And yet receivers were running open all over the field.   

 

And the Bills QB is an MVP candidate who has done well with short to intermediate throws for the past 2 seasons and excels at buying time that breaks down coverage discipline.

 

The second highlighted point from your post is the key to me...........the fact that they didn't realize that they have fundamental issues with their run game when it's been as clear as day for 4 games.   That is the heart of the issue.    

 

It's why Daboll had a bad script.

 

 You are basically arguing against and supporting my point at the same time.

 

The script indicated that they really weren't terribly surprised by what the Titans chose to do defensively.

 

They just tried to call plays that in theory "should" work rather than just do what they do best on early downs.

 

It's a problem I have had with Daboll for some time.........he seems to live for the "gotcha" plays.

 

 On his bad days he is just hunting a pecking thru his play sheet.

 

When you have an offense that can impose its will the way the Bills can when Allen drops back...........not doing so is like the early 90's Bills deciding they don't want to run screens because the opposing defense has it on tape.  If Allen is being accurate it's really hard to take away the passing game from him because he can buy so much time and make throws so few can.  

 

 

[CodeMonkey]

On 10/14/2020 at 12:08 AM, Freak-O said:

The O-line does quite well when it comes to pass protection, but as soon as we try to run the ball it feels like trying to run through a wall.

I suspect that was the prime directive this past off season.  Get pass blocking so Allen doesn't need to run for his life every time he drops back to pass.  IMO, pass blocking is one thing.  But run blocking requires a lot more speed, quickness, and overall skill.  

[BADOLBILZ]

22 minutes ago, SWATeam said:

I'm talking about play three, and then the entirety of their second drive which ended in a TD.

 

You are talking about throwing on third down.........after two unnecessary and ineffective run plays.

 

If you think Daboll had a good game plan then just say so..........there is a whole thread dedicated to how his greatness is going to lead to him becoming a HC next season and undermining the Bills offense.

 

In reality.........nobody liked the Daboll game plan..........you just want to argue with me.

 

[SWATeam]

1 minute ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

You are talking about throwing on third down.........after two unnecessary and ineffective run plays.

 

If you think Daboll had a good game plan then just say so..........there is a whole thread dedicated to how his greatness is going to lead to him becoming a HC next season and undermining the Bills offense.

 

In reality.........nobody liked the Daboll game plan..........you just want to argue with me.

 

You said the scripted plays lost the game.

 

I simply pointed out that the scripted plays consisted of a fluke interception off of the WR's hands while moving the ball, and then a 15 play TD drive.

 

[BADOLBILZ]

31 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

They should have been at the 45 yard line after 3 plays. That's not bad! Unfortunately a non-receiver playing receiver was the target of the play.

 

 

OK but real talk.........they had only gained 6 yards after 2 plays and after 3 plays the Titans were at the BILLS 16 yard line.

 

It was a bad game plan.   Admit it.

 

 

 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

8 minutes ago, SWATeam said:

You said the scripted plays lost the game.

 

I simply pointed out that the scripted plays consisted of a fluke interception off of the WR's hands while moving the ball, and then a 15 play TD drive.

 

 

 

Yes, in hindsight the bad start during the scripted portion of the game decreased their chance of winning the game greatly.    They lost the turnover battle for the game 3 plays in.   Teams that win the turnover margin in a game win 78% of the time.      

 

You can argue against my larger point about momentum but turnovers kill you and that turnover was set up by the Titans getting the Bills into a 3rd and no-way-they-run-the-ball.    

[dave mcbride]

25 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

OK but real talk.........they had only gained 6 yards after 2 plays and after 3 plays the Titans were at the BILLS 16 yard line.

 

It was a bad game plan.   Admit it.

 

 

 

 

No, there's no way I'm admitting it was a bad game plan specifically because they "emphasized" the run on only the first two plays of the game. Come on. It's just two plays.

[dave mcbride]

31 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

OK but real talk.........they had only gained 6 yards after 2 plays and after 3 plays the Titans were at the BILLS 16 yard line.

 

It was a bad game plan.   Admit it.

 

 

 

 

As it happens, in each of the past four games, the Bills ran the ball on their first play, and vs. Miami the first two plays were handoffs to Singletary.

[BADOLBILZ]

 

7 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

No, there's no way I'm admitting it was a bad game plan 

 

Obviously