I know he still has to play tonight, but it is weirdly mind boggling to think that Lamar Jackson has only 1 more TD in his career than Josh

[dollars 2 donuts]

Allen has 60 TDs in his career (40 passing, 19 rushing, 1 receiving) after seeing action in 32 games, but 18-13 (including playoffs) as a starter (which is bogus when you consider that the league considers yeoman duty in the Jets loss as a start, but whatever).

 

Jackson has 61 TDs in his career (49 passing, 12 rushing) after seeing action in 34 games, with an impressive 21-5 (including playoffs) as a starter.

 

Weird to think that Josh has started more, but Jackson made regular appearances at the start of his career when he wasn't starting.

 

I wrote about this before, but was inaccurate in my calculations.  If you go by starts (and you probably should) Jackson leads 2.26 TDs per game (26 games) to Josh's 1.93 (31 games).

 

However, if you go just by game appearances Josh has it at 1.875 TDs per game (32 games) to 1.74 TDs per game for Jackson (35 games).

 

Here's the thing, though, even with Josh's recent success I doubt anybody...ANYBODY, NOT EVEN THE NFL TALKING HEADS would tell you these two are close in overall TDs.

 

There are many rivalries coming up in Josh's future...I am looking forward to this one as much as I am to any of the others.

 

...as the ones with Mayfield, Darnold and Rosen are just SO disappointing!

 

🤣

 

GO BILLS!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 29, 2020 by dollars 2 donuts

[qwksilver]

Love me some ALLEN. I really think we/everyone should stop trying to compare him to a QB that can't/won't throw out side the numbers.

 

 

Anyone else think Jackson is out of the league or at best a backup QB in 4 years?

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

It’s not going to be a popular take here because people are going to throw the MVP thing out there....but no way would I trade Allen for Lamar right now. And I was the furthest thing from an Allen guy in the beginning. He still gives me serious anxiety and I’m expecting to wake up from this dream any day now. But Allen has been incredible and the work he has put in is paying off. It’s impossible to not like this kid and I’m more then happy to be wrong about him. I know Lamar is the leagues 2nd biggest darling behind Mahomes...but I will take Allen over Lamar today and going forward. Jackson is very limited as a passer and the teams that can make him throw outside the numbers, are going to give the Ravens all they want. I’m very happy with who we have at QB. I think when it’s all said and done, the Bills might have gotten the best one in that draft.

[IgotBILLStopay]

And Jackson’s shortcomings were badly exposed in the MNF game today. A few more games like week 3 and we will be saying the 2018 QB redraft order should be 

1. Allen 2. Jackson 3. Mayfield 4. Darnold 5. Wrong Josh.

Edited September 29, 2020 by IgotBILLStopay

[LABILLBACKER]

17 minutes ago, qwksilver said:

Love me some ALLEN. I really think we/everyone should stop trying to compare him to a QB that can't/won't throw out side the numbers.

 

 

Anyone else think Jackson is out of the league or at best a backup QB in 4 years?

I said last year that by Year 5 he's a remnant of his mvp year. The true Brady / Manning duel will be Patrick & Josh.

[Mango]

Did I just hear Steve Young say that Lamar is 0-5 when trailing? 
 

That’s wild to me. 

[NewEra]

We are extremely lucky to have him. 
 

Going into this season, I had zero worries about this team.  We have great wrs, more than solid RBs, a juggernautlike TE and an improving OL.  Our DL, as deep as any in the nfl, 2 budding stars at LB and imo, the next secondary in the league.  Not to mention our recently extended HC that has led our team to playoffs 2 of his 3 years and the Warlock Brandon Beane pulling through strings.......

 

None of those things mattered.  The only thing that truly matters is the development of 17.  Will he reach his peak?  Does he improve his deep ball?  How much better can he get?  After week 3 we can safely say he has taken a giant leap in his progression.  Not a step, like he took last year imo.  He’s put in the work and we are reaping the benefits in ****eating grins. My cheeks were hurting after the Diggs td on Sunday.  Then again after Stallion capped off yet another 4th quarter comeback. Then again when I woke up this morning.  
 

He’s currently a lock for top 10 qb, which last season, he might have been in the high to low teens.  Top 10 isn’t giving him enough credit.  Mahomes, Lamar, AR, RW.....is josh now top 5?  Based on his play this year, he’s a top 5 in my book

[Hapless Bills Fan]

35 minutes ago, Mango said:

Did I just hear Steve Young say that Lamar is 0-5 when trailing?

 

Why yes.  Yes, I believe you did hear that. 

I'm not sure it's true though, per pro-football-reference he has 1 4th Quarter Comeback and 3 game winning drives.

He may have had some qualifier on there that makes it true.

 

54 minutes ago, qwksilver said:

Love me some ALLEN. I really think we/everyone should stop trying to compare him to a QB that can't/won't throw out side the numbers.

Anyone else think Jackson is out of the league or at best a backup QB in 4 years?

 

Anyone else think it's weird that everyone seems to be so poised to dump on the guy that was the league MVP last year with 4333 yards from scrimmage and 43 TDs?

He's not a conventional pocket passer, and he had a rough go and looked bad tonight, but that's tonight and it was against the defending superbowl championships.

 

Honestly, you don't have to crap on one guy to lift another guy up.

 

Whether he's out of the league in 4 years or still playing at a high level is really up to him.  He's had a flaw in his game identified (the difficulty throwing to the sidelines).  He'll either fix it, or savvy teams will find ways to hamper and shut him down. 

 

People could say the same thing about Josh last year, that he'd be out of the league or a backup QB because he couldn't throw with anticipation or throw deep.

[Mango]

3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Why yes.  Yes, I believe you did hear that. 

I'm not sure it's true though, per pro-football-reference he has 1 4th Quarter Comeback and 3 game winning drives.

He may have had some qualifier on there that makes it true.

 

My guess is down by 2 possessions. It’s late, I’ll dig into it tomorrow. 

[HappyDays]

12 minutes ago, Mango said:

My guess is down by 2 possessions. It’s late, I’ll dig into it tomorrow. 

 

Maybe he misquoted this statistic:

 

 

Several commentors point out Flacco was the starter for 6 of those losses. So after tonight Jackson is 0-4 when trailing at halftime.

 

I hate to keep bringing up the Tyrod Taylor comparison because they are really not the same player but that is the kind of stat we had in the Tyrod Taylor days.

 

I'd be curious to know Allen's record in that situation. Pro Football Reference's game finder doesn't seem to have a tool to find out.

 

EDIT: Another commenter mentioned he is 0-5 when trailing at halftime if you include playoffs so that is probably what Steve Young was referring to.

Edited September 29, 2020 by HappyDays

[Warcodered]

6 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

I'd be curious to know Allen's record in that situation. Pro Football Reference's game finder doesn't seem to have a tool to find out.

I mean doesn't Allen have to most comebacks of anyone in the last two years?

[Dr.Sack]

Lamar Jackson as starting QB is still amazing. He’s young and no one expects him to not progress. If I’m the Washington Football Team next week I’m watching this film, but this is more about Mahomes than it is about Jackson. At this stage of their careers Mahomes is lightyears ahead.  

[billsherd]

KC puts fear in other teams before even the game starts that they have to put LOT of points up.  You miss one throw or you go three and out and it starts playing on your mind.  KC's defense is okay nothing special but the scoreboard pressure gets to the other team.  A good offense is the best defense. 

[YoloinOhio]

6 hours ago, Mango said:

Did I just hear Steve Young say that Lamar is 0-5 when trailing? 
 

That’s wild to me. 

I think that was when trailing at the half. 

[atlbillsfan1975]

That was the first game I watched of Lamar since last year. Whereas Josh has improved, Lamar is exactly the same. Till Jackson can learn how to throw the ball better, he will be limited. 

[YoloinOhio]

1 minute ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

That was the first game I watched of Lamar since last year. Whereas Josh has improved, Lamar is exactly the same. Till Jackson can learn how to throw the ball better, he will be limited. 

I turned on that new morning show that replaced golic on ESPN and Keyshawn was whining that Lamar just doesn’t have enough weapons 

[atlbillsfan1975]

5 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

I turned on that new morning show that replaced golic on ESPN and Keyshawn was whining that Lamar just doesn’t have enough weapons 

I mean maybe that’s it. 
Jackson threw for less than 100 and 1 TD, rushed for just over 80, and his running back was his leading receiver. That’s just not going to win many games against good offenses.

Edited September 29, 2020 by atlbillsfan1975

[Chandemonium]

Allen will quickly pass Lamar in this stat, and never look back. 

[SirAndrew]

37 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

I turned on that new morning show that replaced golic on ESPN and Keyshawn was whining that Lamar just doesn’t have enough weapons 

I agree the Ravens offense lacks talent on the outside, and I’ve defended Jackson from many of his critics on this board. It’s important to give credit where it’s due for the MVP season.  However, Last night opened my eyes a little bit, especially considering the Chiefs haven’t been known as having a stellar defense. I don’t care who you are, 97 yards passing isn’t acceptable from an NFL QB in this era. 

[Halloween Land]

I wasn't impress with Lamar at all last night. He is an average thrower if that. Yes a dangerous runner but that will only take you so far. Allen is the better quarterback. 

 

I hate when the commentators compare Mahomes Vs Jackson to Brady Vs Manning, cause Allen Vs Mahomes will be more comparable. 

[YoloinOhio]

7 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

Maybe he misquoted this statistic:

 

 

Several commentors point out Flacco was the starter for 6 of those losses. So after tonight Jackson is 0-4 when trailing at halftime.

 

I hate to keep bringing up the Tyrod Taylor comparison because they are really not the same player but that is the kind of stat we had in the Tyrod Taylor days.

 

I'd be curious to know Allen's record in that situation. Pro Football Reference's game finder doesn't seem to have a tool to find out.

 

EDIT: Another commenter mentioned he is 0-5 when trailing at halftime if you include playoffs so that is probably what Steve Young was referring to.

McDermott is 20-1 when leading at halftime so Im assuming that 1 is the playoff loss and need to lob off 2017 and  the Barkley Jets game and that’s Allen’s record. 

[XXI~PsychedelicBillsfan~]

I didn't see the game but saw he had 97yds passing. that jackson kid is pretty impressive isn't he, man.

 

 

Baltimore Ravens' Lamar Jackson calls Kansas City Chiefs 'our kryptonite' after another loss

 

[DCbillsfan]

54 minutes ago, SirAndrew said:

I agree the Ravens offense lacks talent on the outside, and I’ve defended Jackson from many of his critics on this board. It’s important to give credit where it’s due for the MVP season.  However, Last night opened my eyes a little bit, especially considering the Chiefs haven’t been known as having a stellar defense. I don’t care who you are, 97 yards passing isn’t acceptable from an NFL QB in this era. 

The Bills played Jackson pretty well last year despite the loss.  Other teams picked up what the Bills defense did to defend Jackson.  Titans beat Ravens pretty soundly in playoffs last year.  Jackson needs to improve his throwing or the league will catch up to him.  In some cases, I think we are seeing it.

 

Allen has improved his game each season since being drafted.  Jackson seems to rely on his talent alone.  I believe the Bills talent is now on par with the Ravens.  Should be fun watching Allen go against the rest of his QB class.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

8 hours ago, Mango said:

Did I just hear Steve Young say that Lamar is 0-5 when trailing? 
 

That’s wild to me. 

 

LOL  Why?

 

Tyrod Taylor 3.0.  Better yet... 

[Royale with Cheese]

When you can’t move through the air consistently and can’t use the whole playbook....its very hard to come back.  You usually need to score quickly and move the ball in big chunks.  Thats hard to do with a running QB.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

8 hours ago, IgotBILLStopay said:

And Jackson’s shortcomings were badly exposed in the MNF game today. A few more games like week 3 and we will be saying the 2018 QB redraft order should be 

1. Allen 2. Jackson 3. Mayfield 4. Darnold 5. Wrong Josh.

 

Cupcake schedule. They'll be in the playoffs this year and hell put up numbers. 

 

He had a few drops too. Biggest thing was... down 14 or whatever. He couldn't keep emotions in check. I feel like that's something you have to learn to be successful. 

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

I turned on that new morning show that replaced golic on ESPN and Keyshawn was whining that Lamar just doesn’t have enough weapons 

 

I am not sure he has enough weapons for him to progress as a passer. There are QBs in the league who could win with Marquise Brown, Devin Duvernay and Mark Andrews (who had probably his worst game as a pro last night) and indeed Jackson won with a similar cast last season. But to do more than win and really develop him as a passer I think they need a proper well rounded receiver who can run the whole route tree. 

 

This is the catch 22 for the Ravens that they have been in since Lamar has started. Do they play the way to win now at the sacrifice of the longer term development? Or, do they prioritise his development over winning now? That decision affects how you build the offense.

[Captain Hindsight]

When Lamar played in Buffalo last year my take away from him was he was a tremendous athlete, Ok passer.

 

If you are constantly winning, he will be lights out MVP. But if they get behind, it could get ugly. Last night showed that. Lamar needs to get more consistent throwing and needs to hit long passes and the sideline if he is going to continue to be successful 

[colin]

Just like how mahomes is super charged by the andy ried O, jackson is the bullet in the Roman gun for baltimore.

 

he's got some obvious limitations as a passer, which is why he fell so far in the draft given his college resume.  he reminds me of a less talented mike vick,(easy to say given how ridiculous vick was) but he gives a crap so he has a much better chance to develop as a qb.

 

but the most important thing in all of this to me is the roman system.  it uses blocking and misdirection and quick hitting power plays to just beat down and overwhelm the D, also w harby as HC they are super aggressive and basically try to play advantage football, getting great match up, being in good down and distance, and getting first downs on 4th and short which just demoralizes the opponents and makes their O press vs a pretty sick baltimore d (well, sick except for this year as the whole nfl just isn't ready to play d yet it seems).

 

roman never had his teams set up to score quickly at the end of a half, to manufacture points quickly and flip momentum.  his teams do well getting a lead and just laying it on and strangling the opponent.  given the trends in the nfl, the way it looks like penalties are called or not called (offensive holding most of all) and the fact that there is lots of tape on jackson and that baltimore O, it seems like if you can win the rock paper scissors match up early and figure out what they want to do on O early and get them in a hole, they are just not dynamic enough to come back.

[TheElectricCompany]

8 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Honestly, you don't have to crap on one guy to lift another guy up.

 

Nailed it.

Lamar is an amazing QB. One poor game does nothing to dent that reality. He has shown us nothing to suggest he won't continue to improve.

Josh is quickly becoming an elite, top 5 QB, before our eyes. Just enjoy the ride!

Both guys are very early in writing their stories. I'd love to face off against Lamar or Mahomes in the AFC Championship year after year!

Edited September 29, 2020 by TheElectricCompany

[atlbillsfan1975]

13 minutes ago, TheElectricCompany said:

 

Nailed it.

Lamar is an amazing QB. One poor game does nothing to dent that reality. He has shown us nothing to suggest he won't continue to improve.

Josh is quickly becoming an elite, top 5 QB, before our eyes. Just enjoy the ride!

Both guys are very early in writing their stories. I'd love to face off against Lamar or Mahomes in the AFC Championship year after year!

It’s not one poor game, as a passer Lamar isn’t developing. Can you show me how he is?

I am not trying to take Lamar down, I am just saying,  I think he will be an easier QB to beat than some other ones like Mahomes. The announcers said it last night during the game, the Ravens don’t play well when coming from behind because they aren’t a passing team. Uh hello, we as Bills fans know that will take you only so far. 

[TheElectricCompany]

6 minutes ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

It’s not one poor game, as a passer Lamar isn’t developing. Can you show me how he is?

I am not trying to take Lamar down, I am just saying,  I think he will be an easier QB to beat than some other ones like Mahomes. The announcers said it last night during the game, the Ravens don’t play well when coming from behind because they aren’t a passing team. Uh hello, we as Bills fans know that will take you only so far. 

 

Mahomes leads the best offense we've seen since the 2007 Patriots, unless you are perfect, you aren't beating him.

 

As a passer Lamar isn't developing? You are ***** with me right?  He let the league in passing TDs last year.

[GunnerBill]

32 minutes ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

It’s not one poor game, as a passer Lamar isn’t developing. Can you show me how he is?

I am not trying to take Lamar down, I am just saying,  I think he will be an easier QB to beat than some other ones like Mahomes. The announcers said it last night during the game, the Ravens don’t play well when coming from behind because they aren’t a passing team. Uh hello, we as Bills fans know that will take you only so far. 

 

He definitely developed year 1 to year 2. So far I don't see another step from year 2 to year 3 but, unlike I suspect most here, I have watched all three Ravens games not just last night. He is a good Quarterback but he is still a Quarterback who requires development too. I think whatever the outcome for the Ravens this year, and people are mad to write them off after one game IMO, upgrading the weapons around Jackson has to be a priority in the offseason. They have to try and find him a true #1 receiver who runs the whole route tree and who Jackson can develop some level of comfort with on those throws outside the hashes that he really has struggled with. Hollywood isn't that. None of the tight ends are that.

 

The Ravens also, as I said in my comments in the game thread this morning, have to carry on running even when behind. The Rams showed Sunday that if you are good enough running the ball - and Baltimore are - then that is the way to go.

 

I suppose where I am getting to is some people got too high on Lamar last year (I know it was not a popular opinion but I personally thought Russell Wilson was the MVP of the league but there you go) and are getting too low on him after one bad game last night. He has been good weeks 1 and 2 - though admittedly I don't think Cleveland or Houston are up to much defensively.

[YoloinOhio]

The issue is that the Ravens with a lead are very hard to beat but when they have to come from behind, like getting down early to the chiefs or the titans in the playoffs last year, the aren’t built to chase points.