Training Camp 8/21

[YattaOkasan]

Any other links?  Did they practice?  Was just Allen boring?  Covid Camp is really a bummer but a price I think will all pay to see them in regular season. 

[Warcodered]

2 minutes ago, YattaOkasan said:

Any other links?  Did they practice?  Was just Allen boring?  Covid Camp is really a bummer but a price I think will all pay to see them in regular season. 

Haven't seen a lot out there they were saying it was a light practice before their day off.

[Florida Bills Fanatic]

6 hours ago, CEN-CAL17 said:

Been saying it for months now..... Roberts could be a surprise cut.  But everyone thinks hes still the Roberts of 2016.

 

His longest punt return last year was 22 yards.  8 yard avg. What 32 years old?

 

Do you keep him and put Hodgins on the PS to possibly be scooped up? Then have to drop Roberts to place Hodgins on the 53, or who do you drop? Can McKenzie return punts?  McKenzie is solid on the fly sweeps and made some big plays periodically last year on the field.....

 

I still say:

Diggs

Brown

Beasley

Davis

McKenzie

Hodgins

 

But but Roberts is respected in the ST room.  8 yard avg last year, was 14 the year before.... IMO NFL teams are not scared of Roberts in 2020.

 

I think they are looking and building returners for a possible replacement.  90% of the time its a fair catch anyway.....

I think you are correct on this.  Roberts is a roster luxury that McD may be unwilling to carry.  With reduced productivity, he may no longer be worth it.  I haven't had a chance to do any research but it would not shock me if some others on the roster had punt and kick return experience in college.  Frequently talented freshman that can't crack the starting lineup, are used to return kicks and punts.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

7 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

Interesting that Levi Wallace and John Brown are back there with Andre Roberts.

 

You got to have depth this year.  It's not just injuries, it's covid

[purple haze]

7 hours ago, CEN-CAL17 said:

Been saying it for months now..... Roberts could be a surprise cut.  But everyone thinks hes still the Roberts of 2016.

 

His longest punt return last year was 22 yards.  8 yard avg. What 32 years old?

 

Do you keep him and put Hodgins on the PS to possibly be scooped up? Then have to drop Roberts to place Hodgins on the 53, or who do you drop? Can McKenzie return punts?  McKenzie is solid on the fly sweeps and made some big plays periodically last year on the field.....

 

I still say:

Diggs

Brown

Beasley

Davis

McKenzie

Hodgins

 

But but Roberts is respected in the ST room.  8 yard avg last year, was 14 the year before.... IMO NFL teams are not scared of Roberts in 2020.

 

I think they are looking and building returners for a possible replacement.  90% of the time its a fair catch anyway.....

You’re totally underselling Roberts.  I believe he was top 10 in punt and kick returns last season, and, to my eye, still looks explosive when he runs.  He also can do those facet plays McKenzie does now if the staff chooses to keep only 6 WRs.

[purple haze]

3 hours ago, Doc said:

My main gripe about Roberts is too many times he brought the kick off out of the Endzone when he was way deep in it.  And I’d rather they didn’t have to keep a spot just for him but he’s a pro bowler so like I said, they’re not cutting him.

He can contribute at WR though if need be.  He can run reverses and gadget plays.  Roberts has some giddy-up to him.   I think he’s more versatile than McKenzie bc you can trust him to catch and hold the ball on returns too.

Edited August 22, 2020 by purple haze

[FLFan]

8 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

McKenzie is a huge liability returning punts. Dude is a muff machine.

 

I've come around to keeping Roberts on the team just for his return abilities.... and to keep them from making a dumb decision... like McKenzie returning punts. 

This is my thinking as well.  We all want the splash plays, but it starts with reliability.  Good decisions, no muffs.  The results of bad decisions and bad hands on punt returns is disastrous.  No disasters first.  

[NewEra]

7 hours ago, Paul Costa said:

I don’t get the McKenzie love. He’s ok. I think Bills will keep 7 WR. 
1.Diggs

2.Brown 

3. Beasley 

4. Davis

5. Duke ( having great camp)

6. Hodgins 

7. Roberts 

what does McKenzie give you but the jet sweep. Foster could replace Duke or Hodgins if he can run jet sweep. Excellent ST player and had great second half of season as a rookie. Good chemistry with Josh in 2018. 

We aren’t going to keep Hodgins, Duke and Roberts. 7 WRs isn’t happening.  I like both Hodgins and Duke, but it’s a numbers game.  I bet Beane is trying to trade Duke and Mckenzie for late rounders as we speak.

[SCBills]

I’m going:

 

Diggs

Brown

Beasley

Davis

Duke

Roberts

 

Hodgins to PS

 

Foster/McKenzie cut

 

Id like to keep Foster, but just don’t see him beating out Duke.  I’m fine with having Roberts as designated PR/KR. 

[YoloinOhio]

4 hours ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said:

Who is the backup slot receiver?

Gabe Davis has been lining up inside and outside so that’s a possibility 

[YoloinOhio]

3 hours ago, YattaOkasan said:

Any other links?  Did they practice?  Was just Allen boring?  Covid Camp is really a bummer but a price I think will all pay to see them in regular season. 

Not much today and tbh I think we are going to see less and less. All teams are cracking down on what media can share because absent preseason games this year, pro scouts are following beat reporters around the league for info and video of players that they can watch and stash for future waiver claims. Plus stephon Gilmore RTd a vid of Allen to Diggs and said “thanks for showing me the routes you are running” or something 

Edited August 22, 2020 by YoloinOhio

[CEN-CAL17]

1 hour ago, SCBills said:

I’m going:

 

Diggs

Brown

Beasley

Davis

Duke

Roberts

 

Hodgins to PS

 

Foster/McKenzie cut

 

Id like to keep Foster, but just don’t see him beating out Duke.  I’m fine with having Roberts as designated PR/KR. 

Here’s a scenario... week 4 a team puts in for Hodgins from the PS.... now he has to be put on the 53. 
 

Who do the Bills drop?

Edited August 22, 2020 by CEN-CAL17

[Warcodered]

34 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Not much today and tbh I think we are going to see less and less. All teams are cracking down on what media can share because absent preseason games this year, pro scouts are following beat reporters around the league for info and video of players that they can watch and stash for future waiver claims. Plus stephon Gilmore RTd a vid of Allen to Diggs and said “thanks for showing me the routes you are running” or something 

 

I mean it's a position group drill so I guess he's just trying to play mind games or something.

[JaBu]

24 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Not much today and tbh I think we are going to see less and less. All teams are cracking down on what media can share because absent preseason games this year, pro scouts are following beat reporters around the league for info and video of players that they can watch and stash for future waiver claims. Plus stephon Gilmore RTd a vid of Allen to Diggs and said “thanks for showing me the routes you are running” or something 

 

Cracking down makes sense, especially with regard to scouts looking for cut down day waiver claims. It could definitely impact a teams ability to sneak a guy onto the practice squad.

 

However, I don't think the Gilmore tweet is relevant. Unless it's the 1st game (New England isn't), there will be plenty of actual game tape to see many routes run. Also. if he was serious about it he wouldn't blow his cover, he'd just keep collecting vids. It's notable he's interested and paying attention though. I doubt he's watching any Jets or Dolphins camp video.

[machine gun kelly]

I know that out route was so telling.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

13 hours ago, CEN-CAL17 said:

Been saying it for months now..... Roberts could be a surprise cut.  But everyone thinks hes still the Roberts of 2016.

 

His longest punt return last year was 22 yards.  8 yard avg. What 32 years old?

 

Do you keep him and put Hodgins on the PS to possibly be scooped up? Then have to drop Roberts to place Hodgins on the 53, or who do you drop? Can McKenzie return punts?  McKenzie is solid on the fly sweeps and made some big plays periodically last year on the field.....

 

I still say:

Diggs

Brown

Beasley

Davis

McKenzie

Hodgins

 

But but Roberts is respected in the ST room.  8 yard avg last year, was 14 the year before.... IMO NFL teams are not scared of Roberts in 2020.

 

I think they are looking and building returners for a possible replacement.  90% of the time its a fair catch anyway.....

Hodgins seems like the perfect candidate for practice squad. 6th round pick with no preseason. It's not likely a team adds him to their active roster without film.

[strive_for_five_guy]

7 hours ago, CEN-CAL17 said:

Here’s a scenario... week 4 a team puts in for Hodgins from the PS.... now he has to be put on the 53. 
 

Who do the Bills drop?

Teams can protect four PS players this year FYI

[eball]

5 minutes ago, strive_for_five_guy said:

Teams can protect four PS players this year FYI

 

Yes, but they can’t protect anyone from Sunday until Tuesday afternoon — otherwise known as the “poaching period.”  The four protected players are chosen on Tuesday afternoon and that protection lasts through Sunday.

[Chandler#81]

7 hours ago, CEN-CAL17 said:

Here’s a scenario... week 4 a team puts in for Hodgins from the PS.... now he has to be put on the 53. 
 

Who do the Bills drop?

Good post. I was going to counter @SCBills post with ‘not for long, if at all’ regarding Hodgins.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

13 hours ago, Doc said:

My main gripe about Roberts is too many times he brought the kick off out of the Endzone when he was way deep in it.  And I’d rather they didn’t have to keep a spot just for him but he’s a pro bowler so like I said, they’re not cutting him.

I actually like that. If you have an elite returner, you ought to try to bring it out every time. If you have a “kick catcher” back there, then I agree— take a knee. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

8 hours ago, CEN-CAL17 said:

Here’s a scenario... week 4 a team puts in for Hodgins from the PS.... now he has to be put on the 53. 
 

Who do the Bills drop?

I just don't see a team doing that for a very late 6th round pick with no film. 

[Sherlock Holmes]

I'd take Berrios over Roberts...

[thebandit27]

9 hours ago, Warcodered said:

 

I mean it's a position group drill so I guess he's just trying to play mind games or something.

Oh no! Now Gilmore is going to know that the Bills have a 7-route in their scheme, and that their WR1 may run it during a game!!!

[eball]

6 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

Oh no! Now Gilmore is going to know that the Bills have a 7-route in their scheme, and that their WR1 may run it during a game!!!

 

He also learned that our assistant DB coach can't cover a lick.

[Doc]

9 hours ago, Warcodered said:

 

I mean it's a position group drill so I guess he's just trying to play mind games or something.

 

Did anyone show him the routes that Devante Parker is running?

[thebandit27]

25 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Did anyone show him the routes that Devante Parker is running?

Parker had a solid showing in week 17, but your claim that Gilmore singlehandedly lost that game with his play against Parker is massively overstated:

 

 

[SCBills]

10 hours ago, CEN-CAL17 said:

Here’s a scenario... week 4 a team puts in for Hodgins from the PS.... now he has to be put on the 53. 
 

Who do the Bills drop?

Id be shocked if a team did that, given they’d have to add Hodgins to their 53.   I remember last year, it may have been Sal C, or one of the other guys, discussing PS poaching, and he outlined how rare it is for someone - especially one with hardly any tape - to get poached.  
 

That said, given the investments to Special Teams we have made, I think it’s unlikely we drop Roberts. It would come down to Hodgins vs Duke, or dropping another position.  
 

I’m not 100% sold on keeping Duke, but he keeps making plays in practice, and I’ve seen with my own two eyes, him have a 100 yard receiving game in the pros. 

[Warcodered]

2 hours ago, Doc said:

 

Did anyone show him the routes that Devante Parker is running?

No but a lot of people in the replies showed him a route Brown ran last year.

[Doc]

3 hours ago, thebandit27 said:

Parker had a solid showing in week 17, but your claim that Gilmore singlehandedly lost that game with his play against Parker is massively overstated:

 

 

 

We'll agree to disagree.  And Parker had more than a "solid showing" against the DPOTY no less.

 

And that game was the perfect illustration of Fitz's career.  When the pressure is off, he can play like a top QB.  When it's on, like when he was with the Jets and all he needed to do was beat the Bills in the season finale to make the playoffs, he came up short.

Edited August 22, 2020 by Doc

[YoloinOhio]

Team is off today but LBs hanging out 

 

 

[Doc]

5 hours ago, JR in Pittsburgh said:

I actually like that. If you have an elite returner, you ought to try to bring it out every time. If you have a “kick catcher” back there, then I agree— take a knee. 

 

Yeah but I don't recall him even reaching the automatic 25 yard line. 

[SirAndrew]

59 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Yeah but I don't recall him even reaching the automatic 25 yard line. 

Yeah, that’s the problem. I don’t care how elite you might be as a return man these days. It’s unlikely you’ll bring the ball past the 25 from deep in the end zone on a regular basis. Back when a touchback was placed at the 20, there was less risk in losing yardage from taking it out. I value having the ball at the 25 on a regular basis more than I do the small chance it’s taken out to midfield. Big returns can be huge, but the consistency of starting at the 25 outweighs one long return mixed with a bunch where you actually lose field position. Don’t get me wrong, Roberts is a good player to have, but I’d prefer he take his chances from outside the end zone, or at least just a few yards deep. I don’t want to see anyone taking the ball out from deep in the end zone. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

8 hours ago, strive_for_five_guy said:

Teams can protect four PS players this year FYI

 

Not that simple.  The protection isn't constant - it's only part of the week, 3 or 4 days.

[machine gun kelly]

Hapless, my concern as well.  The coaches are going to have to make the right assessment cal on Hodgins as they already know what they have in McKenzie.  If it’s even close, id rather keep Hodgins fully protected.  Beane is smart and thinking of the long game.  He knows Smoke, and Beasley are great, but with every year, we need their successors.  I feel that is why he invested two resources in maybe one of the most important drafts with the pandemic and cap loss to have two up and comers.  If Davis and Hodgins end up being as good as reported so far, they are going to hold onto them.  With the exceptions in the PS, they can rol the dice on McKenzie, and I like that guy.  I just don’t se them breaking ranks from the 6 they did last year and no matter how many times people say it, they are going to keep Roberts for returns.

[Logic]

One thing I forget every year and then remember once the season gets going is this: regardless of how many WRs are on the 53-man roster, the team only DRESSES a set number of them each week.

 

Last season, for instance, they sometimes dressed just four WRs, and sometimes five. Never six.

 

So if Diggs, Beasley, Brown, and Roberts dress every week, it leaves — at most — one extra WR spot per week. It’s important to remember, then, that whoever gets that extra spot each week (if they even use it) is likely to be a small part of the overall offensive gameplan. Last year, they’d sometimes activate Duke when they wanted size, and sometimes activate McKenzie if they wanted his gadget play abilities.

 

We have to figure that Gabe Davis is most likely to get that last game day receiver spot, based on his draft position and camp performance thus far. As such, any remaining receiver on the roster would likely rarely be active on game days and would serve only in a very limited capacity of specific strategic needs. The question then becomes: what does the coaching staff value more? McKenzie’s utility as a gadget player and special teams depth (and do they believe another player, like Diggs or Roberts, can handle those sweeps and gadget plays)? Or is the size/red zone ability of Duke or Hodgins more valuable? I DO think that only Duke or Hodgins would make the 53, not both, as they have redundant skillsets.

 

All of this is to say that whether or not the Bills believe they can replace McKenzie’s contributions should go a long way toward determining whether they keep him or a “size guy”. And then between the two size guys, who is performing better? If it’s a tie, you go with the rookie.

 

No matter who claims the sixth WR spot (if there is one), that player will likely rarely be active on game days unless injuries occur.

 

 

 

 

[Chandler#81]

With the day off,  do the players go home or their apts -or are they sequestered in a bubble hotel?

[machine gun kelly]

Nothing announced like NO and Tampa who can’t mandate, but strongly encouraged a bubble so I assume they went home.  You guys would get that info. Faster in Buffalo.  I don’t think all of the NO and TPA teams and staff are 100% compliant so it’s a great idea and only for a few weeks, but up to them.  Crazy as when I started a medical device company we would go off for initial training for several weeks and basically had to train 16 hours a day to get ready.  I don’t see an issue with getting away for a month.  By the way, I was always married and had kids, but it was a commitment.  

[Malazan]

7 hours ago, thebandit27 said:

Oh no! Now Gilmore is going to know that the Bills have a 7-route in their scheme, and that their WR1 may run it during a game!!!

 

Not necessarily surprised he didn't know that before ?

Edited August 22, 2020 by jeremy2020

[JakeFrommStateFarm]

Any news on how the QBs are looking ?

[YoloinOhio]

4 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

With the day off,  do the players go home or their apts -or are they sequestered in a bubble hotel?

They go home