Chris Simms thinks Stidham is more talented than Tua

[BuffaloBills1998]

https://www.thephinsider.com/platform/amp/2020/6/12/21288719/nbcs-chris-simms-jarrett-stidham-is-more-talented-than-tua-miami-dolphins-new-england-patriots Is Chris Simms this stupid? I like that he’s all for Allen but this is just ridiculous. Stidham was mediocre at best in college and hasn’t really proven to be anything much more in the NFL. He’s another Matt Cassel from what I’ve see from him

[C.Biscuit97]

Yeah, this is stupid talk.  It’s his opinion but I do wonder, under polygraph, does he really believe it?  I think this is his hot take because if by some miracle JS is better, he will be like the only human being predicting it.  How fast would the Pats trade Stidham for Tua?  
 

I get the Bama talent thing but he looked special.  Great touch in his passes and hits guys in stride.  I truly believe injuries are the only thing that will keep him from being a star.  

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

2 minutes ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

https://www.thephinsider.com/platform/amp/2020/6/12/21288719/nbcs-chris-simms-jarrett-stidham-is-more-talented-than-tua-miami-dolphins-new-england-patriots Is Chris Simms this stupid? I like that he’s all for Allen but this is just ridiculous. Stidham was mediocre at best in college and hasn’t really proven to be anything much more in the NFL. He’s another Matt Cassel from what I’ve see from him

 

I mean - he's not wrong.  College success doesn't really mean anything when translating to the NFL.  Look at Leinart, Vince young, Tebow... and many others.  Having a stacked supporting cast makes it even more difficult to evaluate.

[BuffaloBills1998]

Just now, dneveu said:

 

I mean - he's not wrong.  College success doesn't really mean anything when translating to the NFL.  Look at Leinart, Vince young, Tebow... and many others.  Having a stacked supporting cast makes it even more difficult to evaluate.

The problem with leinhart is that he was a party animal and never really studied and also had a weak arm and was sent to the worst team he could’ve been drafted by. Vince young was a mental nutcase and Tebow again lacked arm strength and his inability to read defenses cost him.  

[C.Biscuit97]

2 minutes ago, dneveu said:

 

I mean - he's not wrong.  College success doesn't really mean anything when translating to the NFL.  Look at Leinart, Vince young, Tebow... and many others.  Having a stacked supporting cast makes it even more difficult to evaluate.

Well Young was the Rookie of the Year.  But you can break those down individually.  The most shocking is Leinart but looking back, him going back to school to bed more co-eds is a red flag.  Young and especially Tebow had serious mechanical issues and overwhelmingly relied on their legs.  Tua is a very pure pocket passer who might have been the #1 overall pick if healthy.  
 

I watched Stidham a lot in college and saw nothing special.  He was a dime a dozen type guy.  The only reason he has any hype is because he’s on NE.  If he was on the Bengals, no one would care.  This is a Skip Bayless hot take.

4 minutes ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

The problem with leinhart is that he was a party animal and never really studied and also had a weak arm and was sent to the worst team he could’ve been drafted by. Vince young was a mental nutcase and Tebow again lacked arm strength and his inability to read defenses cost him.  

Well said.  Leinart’s arm was pretty weak.  And I forgot about how crazy Young was.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

Just now, BuffaloBills1998 said:

The problem with leinhart is that he was a party animal and never really studied and also had a weak arm and was sent to the worst team he could’ve been drafted by. Vince young was a mental nutcase and Tebow again lacked arm strength and his inability to read defenses cost him.  

 

Right... We know all of that now.  There are concerns with Tua too.

 

13 on the wonderlic.  Other than lamar jackson who else has been remotely successful with a score that low?  

Rumored issues with the white board at the combine.  

Injury issues

 

I think the callout of his absurd talent at WR and OT is something to keep in mind.  Physical talent is there - but did these guys make it a bit easier for him?  Can't really deny that.  

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

Here are his comments—more measured than how later reported, IMO:

 

https://weei.radio.com/blogs/ryan-hannable/nfl-analyst-jarrett-stidham-more-talented-than-tua

 

 

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

I don’t know how Simms can make a solid evaluation on either of these QB’s. Week 10 would be much better time to make a evaluation on these 2

[StHustle]

Hmmmmm...If Stidham wasnt a Patriot would Simms still view his talent level the same? Making such a take public lessens the credibility of his Josh Allen praise. 

[bigK14094]

12 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Well Young was the Rookie of the Year.  But you can break those down individually.  The most shocking is Leinart but looking back, him going back to school to bed more co-eds is a red flag.  Young and especially Tebow had serious mechanical issues and overwhelmingly relied on their legs.  Tua is a very pure pocket passer who might have been the #1 overall pick if healthy.  
 

I watched Stidham a lot in college and saw nothing special.  He was a dime a dozen type guy.  The only reason he has any hype is because he’s on NE.  If he was on the Bengals, no one would care.  This is a Skip Bayless hot take.

Well said.  Leinart’s arm was pretty weak.  And I forgot about how crazy Young was.

I saw Young beat the Bills at the Ralph as a rookie w the Oilers.  He did it with his legs.  His later tryout w the Bills ended in preseason as he would not run the O, called what he wanted. Yeh, carzy.

[C.Biscuit97]

14 minutes ago, dneveu said:

 

Right... We know all of that now.  There are concerns with Tua too.

 

13 on the wonderlic.  Other than lamar jackson who else has been remotely successful with a score that low?  

Rumored issues with the white board at the combine.  

Injury issues

 

I think the callout of his absurd talent at WR and OT is something to keep in mind.  Physical talent is there - but did these guys make it a bit easier for him?  Can't really deny that.  

Jim Kelly ?

[Blokestradamus]

33 minutes ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

Is Chris Simms this stupid?

 

The answer is typically yes.

[Paup 1995MVP]

26 minutes ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

https://www.thephinsider.com/platform/amp/2020/6/12/21288719/nbcs-chris-simms-jarrett-stidham-is-more-talented-than-tua-miami-dolphins-new-england-patriots Is Chris Simms this stupid? I like that he’s all for Allen but this is just ridiculous. Stidham was mediocre at best in college and hasn’t really proven to be anything much more in the NFL. He’s another Matt Cassel from what I’ve see from him

I watched a lot of Auburn football living in SEC country.  And you all should know that I am way higher on Jake Fromm and Jarret Stidham then many of you based on my previous posts.  

 

On the whole Stidham was better then mediocre in college.  He was good for the most part.  And at times very good, and at times average.  He has a good arm and is a gamer.  He tends to panic against a big pass rush and drift backwards to his right ala Baker Mayfield.  (See the game at Clemson in 2017 when he got sacked 10 times)  But you have to understand that Auburn has not gotten nearly the offensive talent that Alabama LSU and Georgia have got the past 5-7 years since they played in the Nat Title game against FSU, which is ironic given that Gus Malzahn is an offensive minded coach.  Their O line is mediocre as our most of their skill players.  Their program rolls behind its defense.  Which is always top notch.  

 

Whether Stidham is better then Tua remains to be seen.  But Simms is correct about some of the throws Tua makes.  He has guys wide open a whole bunch of the time.  Stidham and Fromm for that matter did not have that luxury.  

[vtnatefootball11]

12 minutes ago, dneveu said:

 

I mean - he's not wrong.  College success doesn't really mean anything when translating to the NFL.  Look at Leinart, Vince young, Tebow... and many others.  Having a stacked supporting cast makes it even more difficult to evaluate.

 

4 minutes ago, dneveu said:

 

Right... We know all of that now.  There are concerns with Tua too.

 

13 on the wonderlic.  Other than lamar jackson who else has been remotely successful with a score that low?  

Rumored issues with the white board at the combine.  

Injury issues

 

I think the callout of his absurd talent at WR and OT is something to keep in mind.  Physical talent is there - but did these guys make it a bit easier for him?  Can't really deny that.  

 

 

1 minute ago, Paup 1995MVP said:

I watched a lot of Auburn football living in SEC country.  And you all should know that I am way higher on Jake Fromm and Jarret Stidham then many of you based on my previous posts.  

 

On the whole Stidham was better then mediocre in college.  He was good for the most part.  And at times very good, and at times average.  He has a good arm and is a gamer.  He tends to panic against a big pass rush and drift backwards to his right ala Baker Mayfield.  (See the game at Clemson in 2017 when he got sacked 10 times)  But you have to understand that Auburn has not gotten nearly the offensive talent that Alabama LSU and Georgia have got the past 5-7 years since they played in the Nat Title game against FSU, which is ironic given that Gus Malzahn is an offensive minded coach.  Their O line is mediocre as our most of their skill players.  Their program rolls behind its defense.  Which is always top notch.  

 

Whether Stidham is better then Tua remains to be seen.  But Simms is correct about some of the throws Tua makes.  He has guys wide open a whole bunch of the time.  Stidham and Fromm for that matter did not have that luxury.  

 

I'm sorry but you guys are off on this and yes Chris Simms is an idiot.

 

I watch a ton of college football as well.  I went to Clemson so I am no Alabama fan, and I am always wary of overhyping a player with great support cast, particularly with that program, but Tua is an absolute scary good NFL prospect.  This is not an Alabama MLB with 3 NFL worthy DL in front of him clearing the way where you can't quite tell from the film.  This is a quarterback making jaw dropping throws on a consistent basis.  I acknowledge the injury risk, but his arm talent is undeniable and already better than 90% of current NFL Qbs.  I have never seen a QB with his touch/accuracy/timing at the college level and he has way more arm strength than Tebow/Leinart.  He can sit in the pocket and pick you apart and also keep plays alive like Russel Wilson.  His throws on the run are unbelievable.  The only guy I can compare his arm talent to is Drew Brees.  I'm scared as heck as to what he might do in Miami the next ten years if they can even partially right the ship on their rebuild with the rest of their roster.  In my mind he is single handedly the biggest threat the Bills face in the AFCE.

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

27 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Jim Kelly ?

I get the feeling that back in the 80’s and 90’s that the wonderlic was viewed as a kind of who gives a ***** kind of test. I bet they just took the test without studying up on it and just said who cares. 
 

Now it seems like certain positions hold the wonderlic test in higher regard. Agents, players and teams put a lot more into the wonderlic now. If a QB scored a 13 now that would be a red flag, in the 80’s and 90’s it was ho-hum.

[Mr. K]

I hope all of the QBs in the division suck.

[C.Biscuit97]

2 minutes ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

I get the feeling that back in the 80’s and 90’s that the wonderlic was viewed as a kind of who gives a ***** kind of test. I bet they just took the test without studying up on it and just said who cares. 
 

Now it seems like certain positions hold the wonderlic test in higher regard. Agents, players and teams put a lot more into the wonderlic now. If a QB scored a 13 now that would be a red flag, in the 80’s and 90’s it was ho-hum.

You could be right but Steve Young got 33 and Elway got a 29.  All respect to the best qb in franchise history, but I don’t think Kelly coming from Miami was some kind of genius.  

[Don Otreply]

One big hit to his wrist, hip, or ankle and all the arm talent and touch mean nothing, the guy certainly has potential, but as what’s his name, the tuna said, potential means you haven’t done sh-t yet... just sayin. 
 

I like being a curmudgeon ?

 

Go Bills!!!

Edited June 12, 2020 by Don Otreply

[Doc]

I guess he doesn't think much of Tua.

[BigBuff423]

In my mind, when you talk about QBs that are most likely to be successful at the NFL level, talent is rarely the defining characteristic. If it were, RGIII, Akili Smith, Ryan Leaf, Jamarcus Russell would be winning multiple championships so to me, it is much more about the ability to lead an Offense and be efficient and capable within the framework of the given Offense. To that end, maybe Stidham will be better in the long-run based on the aforementioned traits, but it's hard to argue that Tua has less significant raw, unprocessed talent. However, the ability to handle the mental workload, to make accurate reads and passes, handle his business off the field and lead while on it, taking the relentless work ethic to a new level, and ability to rally his teammates when the collective spirit is down, is yet to be determined and may have more merit than just talent. 

[mushypeaches]

No one should be surprised at a member of the media pre-emptively ball-washing the next unheralded Patriots QB

 

Especially someone with the last name of Simms

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

3 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

You could be right but Steve Young got 33 and Elway got a 29.  All respect to the best qb in franchise history, but I don’t think Kelly coming from Miami was some kind of genius.  

I don’t think he was a genius, but to run the K-Gun and memorize all those plays and make quick decisions on the fly I bet he could score in the high 20’s if he really tried. I also don’t really put that much into the wonderlic. I guess for some positions it might serve a purpose, but I would put more emphasis on college numbers, division, injury history and just about everything over the wonderlic. 

[FLFan]

I would not write off this opinion just yet.  Despite all the Tua  love, the fact is he has not played in a long time, certainly not played against NFL level competition, and is largely a projection rather than a fact based reality.  He could very well suck, and it would not be surprising.  

[GoBills808]

1 hour ago, vtnatefootball11 said:

 

 

 

 

I'm sorry but you guys are off on this and yes Chris Simms is an idiot.

 

I watch a ton of college football as well.  I went to Clemson so I am no Alabama fan, and I am always wary of overhyping a player with great support cast, particularly with that program, but Tua is an absolute scary good NFL prospect.  This is not an Alabama MLB with 3 NFL worthy DL in front of him clearing the way where you can't quite tell from the film.  This is a quarterback making jaw dropping throws on a consistent basis.  I acknowledge the injury risk, but his arm talent is undeniable and already better than 90% of current NFL Qbs.  I have never seen a QB with his touch/accuracy/timing at the college level and he has way more arm strength than Tebow/Leinart.  He can sit in the pocket and pick you apart and also keep plays alive like Russel Wilson.  His throws on the run are unbelievable.  The only guy I can compare his arm talent to is Drew Brees.  I'm scared as heck as to what he might do in Miami the next ten years if they can even partially right the ship on their rebuild with the rest of their roster.  In my mind he is single handedly the biggest threat the Bills face in the AFCE.

Out of the league in 4 years, injured or healthy

[Florida Bills Fanatic]

Simms was in the league and around some pretty good QB's for a decent amount of time (including his Dad).  What he is saying may have more to do with Tua than it does with Stidham.  When I watched a bunch of Alabama games, Tua was mainly delivering the ball to some wide open elite receivers that had just beat the pants off some over matched DB.  He also had an elite o-line in front of him.  His new reality in Miami  is considerably different.  Until he shows that he can perform in an NFL game, I remain just as skeptical of him as I do with Stidham.  The whole thing with the injury history probably factors significantly into Simms' assessment as well.  Personally, I hope they both turn out to be failures.  Go Bills!

[Mr. WEO]

14 minutes ago, Florida Bills Fanatic said:

  When I watched a bunch of Alabama games, Tua was mainly delivering the ball to some wide open elite receivers that had just beat the pants off some over matched DB.

 

Hitting wide open receivers is not a knock on a QB.  It's soemthing NFl QBs can struggle with.  The average QB connects witha receiver less than 2/3 of the times he tries.

 

 

Also, Simms ranks Stidham essentially the same as Taysom Hill, who is not a QB in the NFL.  He's a moron.

[JESSEFEFFER]

2 hours ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

https://www.thephinsider.com/platform/amp/2020/6/12/21288719/nbcs-chris-simms-jarrett-stidham-is-more-talented-than-tua-miami-dolphins-new-england-patriots Is Chris Simms this stupid? I like that he’s all for Allen but this is just ridiculous. Stidham was mediocre at best in college and hasn’t really proven to be anything much more in the NFL. He’s another Matt Cassel from what I’ve see from him

 

His list is not a career projection.  It's "If I am an NFL head coach and my job is on the line in 2020, how confident does this QB make me feel about winning enough games to keep my job.  Thus, Tua's injury status is a HUGE part of this ranking and it's why other rookies are placed higher.  The fact Stidham enters year two in the same offense and did well in the preseason last year gets him bumped up in the rankings over a guy who suffered a hip dislocation and fracture 7 months ago.  So, I do not think this in and of itself makes Chris Simms stupid.

[Thurman#1]

It's not an unreasonable opinion, not at all.

 

Doesn't mean he'll be right, but he's certainly got a chance to be, on this prediction.

 

Simms is smart, smart and opinionated. He probably puts a bit too much emphasis on the physical ability to throw hard for my taste but he knows how to watch tape and he knows a lot more about QBing than his moderately talented physique ever let him personally display on the field.

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

4 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

It's not an unreasonable opinion, not at all.

 

Doesn't mean he'll be right, but he's certainly got a chance to be, on this prediction.

 

Simms is smart, smart and opinionated. He probably puts a bit too much emphasis on the physical ability to throw hard for my taste but he knows how to watch tape and he knows a lot more about QBing than his moderately talented physique ever let him personally display on the field.

 

If not mistaken, he's also the one who said Lamar and Josh would be the best QBs out of the 2018 class.  He's looking good on that too.

[PromoTheRobot]

2 hours ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

https://www.thephinsider.com/platform/amp/2020/6/12/21288719/nbcs-chris-simms-jarrett-stidham-is-more-talented-than-tua-miami-dolphins-new-england-patriots Is Chris Simms this stupid? I like that he’s all for Allen but this is just ridiculous. Stidham was mediocre at best in college and hasn’t really proven to be anything much more in the NFL. He’s another Matt Cassel from what I’ve see from him

 

Tom Brady had a Stidham-like college career. Just keep a close eye on his physique. He might be on the TB12 method.

[BuffaloBills1998]

6 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Tom Brady had a Stidham-like college career. Just keep a close eye on his physique. He might be on the TB12 method.

I highly highly doubt that happens

[CEN-CAL17]

Chris Simms is actually a very good evaluator of talent......

 

 

[JoPoy88]

Toss up for me at this point - neither has any significant pro experience as a basis to form an opinion.

 

If you want to go by college production and act like that will always translate to the pro game, then sure, it’s hard to take Simms seriously. 
 

 

[Mr. WEO]

39 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

It's not an unreasonable opinion, not at all.

 

Doesn't mean he'll be right, but he's certainly got a chance to be, on this prediction.

 

Simms is smart, smart and opinionated. He probably puts a bit too much emphasis on the physical ability to throw hard for my taste but he knows how to watch tape and he knows a lot more about QBing than his moderately talented physique ever let him personally display on the field.

 

 

What do you think he saw in Taysom Hill's 6 pass attempts (3 completions) that led him to rank him at all, let alone the same as Stidham and ahead of actual QBs?

 

How long did it take to watch that tape?

[major]

With the pats cheating system, I fully expect Stidham to be better than Tua 

[PromoTheRobot]

4 minutes ago, major said:

With the pats cheating system, I fully expect Stidham to be better than Tua 

 

They still have Brady's special radio helmet, right? What's Stidham's head size?

[major]

Just now, PromoTheRobot said:

 

They still have Brady's special radio helmet, right? What's Stidham's head size?

Exactly. Expecting Stidham to look like Brady in every sense

[vtnatefootball11]

2 hours ago, BigBuff423 said:

In my mind, when you talk about QBs that are most likely to be successful at the NFL level, talent is rarely the defining characteristic. If it were, RGIII, Akili Smith, Ryan Leaf, Jamarcus Russell would be winning multiple championships so to me, it is much more about the ability to lead an Offense and be efficient and capable within the framework of the given Offense. To that end, maybe Stidham will be better in the long-run based on the aforementioned traits, but it's hard to argue that Tua has less significant raw, unprocessed talent. However, the ability to handle the mental workload, to make accurate reads and passes, handle his business off the field and lead while on it, taking the relentless work ethic to a new level, and ability to rally his teammates when the collective spirit is down, is yet to be determined and may have more merit than just talent. 

 

You clearly have not done your research on Tua (and maybe even know nothing about him?).  Yes his arm talent is off the charts, especially his accuracy, but so are his intangibles.

 

Look what people who know him say about his work ethic and, professionalism. Even opposing college coaches and players talk about what a great person he is.  He is the epitome of what you want in a franchise quarterback on and off the field.  Well spoken, incredibly nice guy from a loving family, never been in trouble, his teammates have the upmost respect for him, etc. He does need to continue to progress with his reads, but what college quarterback doesn't? Oh and his ability rally teammates when things are down? How about coming into the game for an Alabama team that was getting their but kicked in the national championship against UGA at halftime as a true Freshman entirely cold without playing the whole year and leading them back to win with arm?  Is that enough of an indicator for you? 

[vtnatefootball11]

2 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

Out of the league in 4 years, injured or healthy

 

You clearly don't have the slightest clue as to what you're talking about.  

 

As long as his left arm doesn't break the guy is going to be picking people apart from the pocket like Brees.  Please do the a modicum of research next time before embarrassing yourself.  I went to Clemson and quite frankly can't stand Alabama but your ignorant, unintelligent comment is just too much I can't let it slide. 

 

[GoBills808]

15 minutes ago, vtnatefootball11 said:

 

You clearly don't have the slightest clue as to what you're talking about.  

 

As long as his left arm doesn't break the guy is going to be picking people apart from the pocket like Brees.  Please do the a modicum of research next time before embarrassing yourself.  I went to Clemson and quite frankly can't stand Alabama but your ignorant, unintelligent comment is just too much I can't let it slide. 

 

Ok