Beane Draft Day Aggression - Trade up for Delpit

[Just Joshin']

42 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said:

Great, trade up for a DB....no thanks.

Maybe a CB but not a S.

[YoloinOhio]

2 minutes ago, Just Joshin' said:

Maybe a CB but not a S.

Yeah I would trade up for Fulton but not Delpit 

[Mark80]

I feel a lot of you guys are severely underestimating how good this guy is.  He would not be trading up for "another db".  He would be getting an elite level prospect for chump change.  This guy is a top 5 talent.  Was going into the season and still is IMO.  If you wouldn't trade a 2 and a 3 for a top 5 talent prospect, well, I don't know what to tell you then.  I watch a lot of college football, watched him in 2017, 2018, and 2019.  He is an absolute stud and a game changing safety (when he is not playing on an injured ankle at least). 

 

I may have to save this thread and re-visit it with a lot of "i told you so"s in 2 or 3 years.

 

But, hey, lets make sure we keep our 3rd round draft pick for some guy who will make little to no impact as opposed to moving up a bit for a potential all-pro safety, a position we are going to have to fill in one or two years and one we have no depth at.  Oh, and he can play now in big nickel packages too.

Edited April 13, 2020 by Mark80

[YoloinOhio]

14 minutes ago, Mark80 said:

I feel a lot of you guys are severely underestimating how good this guy is.  He would not be trading up for "another db".  He would be getting an elite level prospect for chump change.  This guy is a top 5 talent.  Was going into the season and still is IMO.  If you wouldn't trade a 2 and a 3 for a top 5 talent prospect, well, I don't know what to tell you then.  I watch a lot of college football, watched him in 2017, 2018, and 2019.  He is an absolute stud and a game changing safety (when he is not playing on an injured ankle at least). 

 

I may have to save this thread and re-visit it with a lot of "i told you so"s in 2 or 3 years.

 

But, hey, lets make sure we keep our 3rd round draft pick for some guy who will make little to no impact as opposed to moving up a bit for a potential all-pro safety, a position we are going to have to fill in one or two years and one we have no depth at.  Oh, and he can play now in big nickel packages too.

McDermott values tackling too much to trade up for Delpit. He misses a ton of tackles and takes poor angles, this is technique he should already have by now, no time to try to teach fundamental stuff like that in the nfl if you are a first round pick. If he’s really a top 5 talent though, i assume he will be taken in the top half of the draft by another team. 

[ChattanoogaBills]

6 hours ago, billsfan89 said:

 

A good WR or a good DE will be there at pick 54. Let the draft come to you. 

Definitely i despise trade ups (for the most part). Why do so many people think a 5th-7th rounder cant make this team. Beane has done a superb job drafting talented players in the late rounds. Then there is the injury bug that strikes in training camp and preseason. We aren't as deep as everyone makes us out to be. If one of our vaunted three top wrs miss significant time we're in last years debacle again. 

[njbuff]

I don't think a trade up in round two is necessary.

 

I think, maybe, they should use the 6th and 7th round picks to try and move up in the 4th round (if they find any trade partners ?).

 

Cause I really don't think that 6th and 7th rounders are going to make this team this year.

[RyanC883]

13 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Going into last year Delpit was looking like a top 10 pick. He has pretty good size and physicality. He’s big enough to play the big nickel (which McDermott loves). 
 

Last year he was nowhere near the player that he was the year before despite him stealing the Thorpe award from Okudah. Delpit played through an injury all year which certainly impacted his play. If you are getting the 2018 version you are getting a potentially great player. If you’re getting the 1019 version, meh. 

 

so, assume Delpit, McKinney, Chinn and Duggar are available.  Who do you take?  

[GunnerBill]

18 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Going into last year Delpit was looking like a top 10 pick. He has pretty good size and physicality. He’s big enough to play the big nickel (which McDermott loves). 
 

Last year he was nowhere near the player that he was the year before despite him stealing the Thorpe award from Okudah. Delpit played through an injury all year which certainly impacted his play. If you are getting the 2018 version you are getting a potentially great player. If you’re getting the 1019 version, meh. 

 

Agree. I have him in my 1st/2nd borderline category because that is literally the distinction. I have a top 10 grade on his 2018 tape and a mid day 2 grade (ie late 2nd / early 3rd) grade on his 2019 tape. Depends how much you buy the playing hurt thing.

[BillsFan17]

19 hours ago, qwksilver said:

This is why some people dislike mock drafts. This just won't happen.

This is also why some people find them a very fun exercise, because, stranger things have happened than the possibility of Taylor falling to the third.

 

Not saying it will happen with Taylor, but plenty of very good players slipped down draft boards and went later than anticipated, and vice versa.

[papazoid]

he has a big weakness.....tackling

[Aussie Joe]

Beane already has done his “ trade up” this draft with the Diggs trade..

 

I will predict he stays put at 54

20 hours ago, Mark80 said:

Edit for confusion:  I'm not saying give up the farm to move back into the first.  I'm saying determine what you are willing to give up for him (maybe 2 and 4, maybe 2 and 3), and start making offers towards the end of the first.  Keep offering the teams on the clock that value until he is picked or someone accepts it.  

They aren’t moving up from   54 into the first round with what you are offering..their  2 and 4 would move them from 54 to 49

[GunnerBill]

5 hours ago, RyanC883 said:

 

so, assume Delpit, McKinney, Chinn and Duggar are available.  Who do you take?  

 

McKinney is the best safety in the draft. 

16 hours ago, Putin said:

This ^^^^ I also believe there will be quality players available in the 3rd as well , with that said I wouldn’t mind using our 4th , and 5th to maybe move back in to 3rd again !!! 

 

This is the most likely Bills trade up. They will stay put at #54 and at their pick in round 3. But I wouldn't be totally surprised to see them pop back into the end of round 3 or move up the board within round 4 to target a particular guy. 

 

My bold prediction remains no trade ups from Beane though. 

[Mark80]

41 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

McKinney is the best safety in the draft. 

 

This is the most likely Bills trade up. They will stay put at #54 and at their pick in round 3. But I wouldn't be totally surprised to see them pop back into the end of round 3 or move up the board within round 4 to target a particular guy. 

 

My bold prediction remains no trade ups from Beane though. 

 

That's a weird bold prediction, but in Beane's case it certainly is one.

12 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

McDermott values tackling too much to trade up for Delpit. He misses a ton of tackles and takes poor angles, this is technique he should already have by now, no time to try to teach fundamental stuff like that in the nfl if you are a first round pick. If he’s really a top 5 talent though, i assume he will be taken in the top half of the draft by another team. 

 

I agree that his tackling showed some holes in 2019.  However, when watching him in 2017 and 2018 I didn't see that nearly as much.  It seemed to me that in 2019 (and less so in previous years, but a little) he was too aggressive at times going for the big play, the big hit (which he is capable of).  I think that can be coached somewhat. 

[YoloinOhio]

31 minutes ago, Mark80 said:

 

That's a weird bold prediction, but in Beane's case it certainly is one.

 

I agree that his tackling showed some holes in 2019.  However, when watching him in 2017 and 2018 I didn't see that nearly as much.  It seemed to me that in 2019 (and less so in previous years, but a little) he was too aggressive at times going for the big play, the big hit (which he is capable of).  I think that can be coached somewhat. 

He hasn’t been able to tackle since HS. 

[MrSarcasm]

21 hours ago, DJB said:

You wanna trade up from round 2 into round 1 for a safety? 

 

 

 

This, but for RBs.

 

Edited April 14, 2020 by MrSarcasm

[Kirby Jackson]

7 hours ago, RyanC883 said:

 

so, assume Delpit, McKinney, Chinn and Duggar are available.  Who do you take?  

I think McKinney is definitely the first safety off the board. He won’t be around for us. McKinney was unlikely to be available at 22 IMO. I think he ends up in Dallas.

 

The other 3 probably go in the same general area. I really haven’t seen a lot of Chinn or Duggar outside of highlights and the Sr. Bowl. With that being said, I’ll say Delpit for the Bills because I’m assuming he will have the smallest adjustment period. He’s a cerebral player from a National Championship Team in the SEC. That’s the smallest possible jump to the NFL. 

[Coach Tuesday]

Football Outsiders’ Analysis

[Mountain Man]

22 hours ago, Mark80 said:

Grant Delpit is a top 10 talent.  He battled through some injuries this season which seems to be impacting his stock big time.  He is now showing as late 1st / early 2nd in most projections.  I still think he is a stud and is getting severely underrated draft stock wise.  If I'm Beane and I see him sliding to the end of the first, I am heavily considering trading up for him.  I know, I know, we have hyde, we have poyer....but for how long?  Delpit is a game changing S IMO who makes plays down the field and can also play in the box and make plays too.  I love his flexibility and play making ability.  Plus, by the accounts I have seen at least, he is a tremendous locker room presence.

 

I think we are in the position to draft best player available over needs at this point, a huge advantage in building and maintaining a team.  If I can package my 2 and a mid-rounder for him I'm doing it all day long.  

 

Edit for confusion:  I'm not saying give up the farm to move back into the first.  I'm saying determine what you are willing to give up for him (maybe 2 and 4, maybe 2 and 3), and start making offers towards the end of the first.  Keep offering the teams on the clock that value until he is picked or someone accepts it.  No, I do not want them trading a first next year or anything crazy like that.  Thanks.

Considering the Bills like DBs who can tackle, I think that makes Delpit more than unlikely 

[YoloinOhio]

2 minutes ago, Mountain Man said:

Considering the Bills like DBs who can tackle, I think that makes Delpit more than unlikely 

The premise of this being that the Bills would trade assets to move up for him - I agree with you. If he was there at 54 and they Bills saw value there, I won’t quibble, though I personally wouldn’t take him there either given the talent in this draft and the immediate ROI with him or any new safety likely only getting on the field in sub packages for the next 2 years, barring injury

[BillsVet]

22 hours ago, TigerJ said:

Everybody's entitled to an opinion.

 

They are...and some of them are plain wacky.  The last time I remember someone trading up in a substantial move it was AJ Smith for Eric Weddle more than 10 years ago.   

 

18 hours ago, billsfan89 said:

A good WR or a good DE will be there at pick 54. Let the draft come to you. 

 

McBeane has been the polar opposite of people like Nix who believed in this strategy.  And they moved up once in '17 then down twice that year.  There were the moves to trade up for Allen and Edmunds.  Then last year, moving up for Ford and later Knox.  

 

The point is, if someone can help them now and later it's a move to consider moving up.  And both WR and DE are areas they could use a player for today and future seasons.  

[Mark80]

20 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

They are...and some of them are plain wacky.  The last time I remember someone trading up in a substantial move it was AJ Smith for Eric Weddle more than 10 years ago.   

 

 

McBeane has been the polar opposite of people like Nix who believed in this strategy.  And they moved up once in '17 then down twice that year.  There were the moves to trade up for Allen and Edmunds.  Then last year, moving up for Ford and later Knox.  

 

The point is, if someone can help them now and later it's a move to consider moving up.  And both WR and DE are areas they could use a player for today and future seasons.  

 

I don't understand this talk about WR being an immediate need.  We have our 2 outside guys, we have our slot guy, we have our receiving TE, and Singletary is working on his receiving game and we have some young guys to develop.  Where is the need here?  What am I missing?  Is is simply for just a big body guy?  Isn't that Duke's potential role?  Not trying to be a jerk, I'm genuinely curious as to the thought process here.

 

However, DE is a glaring need IMO.

Edited April 14, 2020 by Mark80

[BarleyNY]

55 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

The premise of this being that the Bills would trade assets to move up for him - I agree with you. If he was there at 54 and they Bills saw value there, I won’t quibble, though I personally wouldn’t take him there either given the talent in this draft and the immediate ROI with him or any new safety likely only getting on the field in sub packages for the next 2 years, barring injury

It’s difficult to see a fit here for Delpit.  I get that he’s talented and that he played through injury last season.  But the getting a safety early (and with that much draft capital) would have to mean that we’d be in Big Nickel most of the time and want 3 on the field most of the time.  Someone to edge us closer to a positionless back 7 would make sense.  But how does taking a guy who could be a stud centerfielder make that happen?   Anyone comfortable with Poyer moving to the Big Nickel spot?  He’d be the best bet and I don’t love it.  It sure couldn’t be Delpit anytime soon with his tackling issues.

 

I see Delpit as a fit for C2 or C1 teams.  His range is just too good to put elsewhere.  I know we play those looks, but as a C3 team I just don’t see using a lot of draft capital on a player like him.  Honestly I can see the Ravens taking him in the first.  He’s exactly their kind of player and the kind of pick they’d make. 

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, BillsVet said:

 

They are...and some of them are plain wacky.  The last time I remember someone trading up in a substantial move it was AJ Smith for Eric Weddle more than 10 years ago.   

 

 

McBeane has been the polar opposite of people like Nix who believed in this strategy.  And they moved up once in '17 then down twice that year.  There were the moves to trade up for Allen and Edmunds.  Then last year, moving up for Ford and later Knox.  

 

The point is, if someone can help them now and later it's a move to consider moving up.  And both WR and DE are areas they could use a player for today and future seasons.  

 

Think you got muddled on '17. They moved down once - from #10 to was it #27? And then up twice for Zay and Dion. They then moved up twice in '18 and twice in '19.

[Dr. Who]

23 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Going into last year Delpit was looking like a top 10 pick. He has pretty good size and physicality. He’s big enough to play the big nickel (which McDermott loves). 
 

Last year he was nowhere near the player that he was the year before despite him stealing the Thorpe award from Okudah. Delpit played through an injury all year which certainly impacted his play. If you are getting the 2018 version you are getting a potentially great player. If you’re getting the 1019 version, meh. 

The 1019 version never even heard of the game of football, so you have to cut him some slack.

[Coach Tuesday]

40 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

It’s difficult to see a fit here for Delpit.  I get that he’s talented and that he played through injury last season.  But the getting a safety early (and with that much draft capital) would have to mean that we’d be in Big Nickel most of the time and want 3 on the field most of the time.  Someone to edge us closer to a positionless back 7 would make sense.  But how does taking a guy who could be a stud centerfielder make that happen?   Anyone comfortable with Poyer moving to the Big Nickel spot?  He’d be the best bet and I don’t love it.  It sure couldn’t be Delpit anytime soon with his tackling issues.

 

I see Delpit as a fit for C2 or C1 teams.  His range is just too good to put elsewhere.  I know we play those looks, but as a C3 team I just don’t see using a lot of draft capital on a player like him.  Honestly I can see the Ravens taking him in the first.  He’s exactly their kind of player and the kind of pick they’d make. 

 

I agree.  And the Ravens aren't getting enough production out of Earl Thomas.  He'd be a great fit there.  Man, if the Ravens get Jonathan Taylor or Aiyuk in the 1st and Delpit in the 2nd...

[BarleyNY]

Just now, Coach Tuesday said:

 

I agree.  And the Ravens aren't getting enough production out of Earl Thomas.  He'd be a great fit there.  Man, if the Ravens get Jonathan Taylor or Aiyuk in the 1st and Delpit in the 2nd...

Yeah, I know.  Wow.  Replacing Thomas was exactly what I was thinking for Delpit.  Thomas looked pretty done last season and that defense was fantastic.  Imagine it with Delpit back there instead. 

[Billzgobowlin]

20 hours ago, hjnick said:

This isn't directly toward Delpit, but why would we even want a Safety in the 2nd round when we have 2 great Safeties now??? Do we need 3?

 

Sorry, I just haven't understood the fascination for an early round safety.

Hypothetically if they considered Delpit the next Ed Reed or Polamalu why wouldn't they?  I am not saying he is that good but if they thought he was there would be a good argument there.  That being said I don't think he is and I don't think they think he is either.  I see someone dropping that isn't expected.

[YoloinOhio]

7 minutes ago, Billzgobowlin said:

Hypothetically if they considered Delpit the next Ed Reed or Polamalu why wouldn't they?  I am not saying he is that good but if they thought he was there would be a good argument there.  That being said I don't think he is and I don't think they think he is either.  I see someone dropping that isn't expected.

There is no elite safety talent in this draft. There are good prospects that can become starters but no one that teams are drooling over like a Jamal Adams or Derwin James.  Unless someone decides Isaiah Simmons is a safety in their defense.

Edited April 14, 2020 by YoloinOhio

[Coach Tuesday]

Just now, YoloinOhio said:

There is no elite safety talent in this draft. There are good prospects that can become starters but no one that teams are drooling over like a Jamal Adams or Derwin James.  Unless someone decides Isaiah Simmons is a safety in their defense.

 

I think folks are underrating McKinney.  He's going to be a good one.

[BillsVet]

1 hour ago, Mark80 said:

I don't understand this talk about WR being an immediate need.  We have our 2 outside guys, we have our slot guy, we have our receiving TE, and Singletary is working on his receiving game and we have some young guys to develop.  Where is the need here?  What am I missing?  Is is simply for just a big body guy?  Isn't that Duke's potential role?  Not trying to be a jerk, I'm genuinely curious as to the thought process here.

 

However, DE is a glaring need IMO.

 

Brown and Beasley are 30 or older this season and on contracts that expire in 2021 or 2022.  Having talent in the pipeline is essential at all positions, particularly WR with injuries.

 

Right now if (perish the thought) one of the top 3 WR's was injured, their depth at the position is nil.  Foster, D. Williams, and McKenzie are not guys I want logging serious minutes and anyone who is OK with that over-values them.  None of them have distinguished themselves over an entire season. 

 

The draft is about putting players in your system who at a minimum will be there down the road when UFAs leave.  And the Bills are depending heavily on UFA to start.  Eventually your young guys need to step into those roles.

 

18 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Think you got muddled on '17. They moved down once - from #10 to was it #27? And then up twice for Zay and Dion. They then moved up twice in '18 and twice in '19.

 

Correct. Down once for Tre and up twice for Zay Jones and Dawkins in the second. 

[YoloinOhio]

8 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

I think folks are underrating McKinney.  He's going to be a good one.

He’s the best of the bunch and should be able to start right away, and play a lot of snaps due to versatility but to me he’s more Jimmie Ward than Derwin James. Jmo 

[qwksilver]

4 hours ago, BillsFan17 said:

This is also why some people find them a very fun exercise, because, stranger things have happened than the possibility of Taylor falling to the third.

 

Not saying it will happen with Taylor, but plenty of very good players slipped down draft boards and went later than anticipated, and vice versa.

I personally can't get enough of them, I was just pointing out the reason some people don't.

[Jerboski]

Would rather stick and get okwara, possibly Pittman, dobbins or taylor 

[Kirby Jackson]

49 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

The 1019 version never even heard of the game of football, so you have to cut him some slack.

In my defense I did say that the 1019 version was meh.

[Dr. Who]

3 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

In my defense I did say that the 1019 version was meh.

As in mehdieval?

Edited April 14, 2020 by Dr. Who

[Rigotz]

I don't want to see us trade up for any player.

This is a draft where you can get First Round talent in the 2nd round and maybe even 3rd round.

 

Would you rather have Delpit or a stud WR to groom and stud RB to groom under Josh?

I think that's a little more important than safety depth right now.

Edited April 14, 2020 by Rigotz

[Beast]

I'd rather see the Bills stay put and a bring in solid depth that will push starters and one day be starters.

 

The team is close. Solid depth could make a huge difference.

[whatdrought]

There’s like 20 players I’d trade up for before Delpit.

[Coach Tuesday]

40 minutes ago, Rigotz said:

I don't want to see us trade up for any player.

Based on Beane’s history you’re probably going to be disappointed.

[GunnerBill]

3 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

He’s the best of the bunch and should be able to start right away, and play a lot of snaps due to versatility but to me he’s more Jimmie Ward than Derwin James. Jmo 

 

He isn't Derwin James but then few people are. He reminds me of Anthony Harris from the Vikings a bit the way he plays. 

3 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

I think folks are underrating McKinney.  He's going to be a good one.

 

Agree. I think he is a really safe pick. He will be a good NFL starting safety for 8-10 years.