I don’t get the hate that Josh Allen gets around here.

[BuffaloBills1998]

14 minutes ago, Rampage said:

Josh Allen has proved he isn't a good quarterback. He can't make the easy throw, he panics far too often, and tries to be the hero all the time. He has great mobility and a strong arm but that's it. This fanbase is oblivious because we've endured years of JP Losman, Trent Edwards, Tyrod Taylor, etc for the last 20 years that anyone that has the "potential" to be a good QB is seen as the second coming.

 

We have the wrong Josh Allen on our team, the real Josh Allen is down in Jacksonville.

????????? Gardner Minshew ???LMAO.

 

Thank god your not the GM

Edited April 4, 2020 by BuffaloBills1998

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

3 minutes ago, Juice_32 said:

I love Allen, loved the lateral attempt in the playoff game too. His mindset isn't coachable. He’s entertaining and that’s why I watch. Remember Trent Edwards?

I remember the raging debate over whether receivers actually ran routes across the middle of the field because no one watching on TV could ever really tell. He never threw there, and we didn’t have the luxury of the all-22 film. Those were some dark days.

[H2o]

Just now, thebandit27 said:

Pretty much all of this is wrong.

 

It's ok Bandit

[thebandit27]

6 minutes ago, H2o said:

 

It's ok Bandit

Oh I like to engage. I like to press folks that make such statements to see how much they actually know. It’s entirely possible that someone has a well-thought-out argument; unlikely in this case, but possible.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Nobody hates Josh Allen on this board. He was the QB I wanted most. But he needs to play better. That is not hatred. That is just a fact. He improved in year two in every category. He needs to continue to get better. No reason to think he won’t, but there is no guarantee he will either.

[whorlnut]

11 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

Oh I like to engage. I like to press folks that make such statements to see how much they actually know. It’s entirely possible that someone has a well-thought-out argument; unlikely in this case, but possible.

They don’t know. They listen to the media too much and can’t form their own opinions.
 

They bought into the “wrong Josh” bs and haven’t forgotten about it.

 

They bought into the idea that he is not accurate and ignore the fact that he has improved in that area. His rookie year he was at the bottom of the league in short to intermediate accuracy and last year he was near the top. 

 

They bought into the gripes about hero ball and recklessness but fail to realize he’s only 23 and still super raw. I watched a football life on Brett Favre the other night on NFL Network. I challenge everyone to go watch it while we are all barricaded in our homes. Tell me young Brett Favre doesn’t remind you almost entirely of young Allen. 
 

Allen was drafted as a project qb. He’s made unbelievable progress in just one offseason. If some of you want to doubt the kid, that’s on you and it’s your right. However, I’m not going to bet against him. He seems to have that “it” that makes some of them great. 

[First Round Bust]

high expectations

qb is the highest paid position in the game so there is concern about the looming extension in 1-2 years

Is Josh a later bloomer can he get better with accuracy and pocket presence and avoid stupid negative plays, picks, fumbles, etc

if we dont get it right with him yeah we are kinda screwed like any other team

i think he is doing his part, the OL is solidifying, we have improved the WR positions over the past two seasons,  the schemes-plays-coaching is refining as well, I am sure the game is slowing down for him esp against good defenses and schemes

hoping for the best, but as some point a decision will be made and expect this place to have a mushroom cloud over it

 

 

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

I get it he’s not perfect, but neither was Kemp, or Ferguson or even Kelly for that matter. First it’s finally we have a franchise QB now all of a sudden it’s let’s go get Watson and let Allen go so we don’t have to pay him 30 million. Like some of you guys need to make up your minds. Either your with Allen or your not. Again while Bills mafia is the best fan base in the NFL, we are also the most spoiled. Appreciate what we have and root for the guy to succeed. Things could be worse, we could still have Tyrod( I can’t throw the football) Taylor or Nathan( I cant stop throwing to the other team) Peterman. Or how about EJ Manuel or Kyle Orton or even better Jeff Tuel or Thad Lewis. I can’t imagine if Kelly’s first year in Buffalo happened in today’s game, there would probably be a million threads about running him out of town and demanding that we draft someone else. I understand being critical and even being concerned, but some of you guys need to stop being negative and back off a bit and watch and see how it all unfolds. Be patient as the kids still young and is only going into his third year in the NFL. I don’t see Cleveland or New Jersey fans coming down on their QBS as much as I see here. And in my opinion Allen is way better than Darnold and Mayfield. 

 

Some of us don't share your opinion. I am rooting for Josh Allen. But I don't think he has proven to be way better than Mayfield or Darnold. I have him ahead of both but they are still in a tightly grouped cluster at this stage and Jackson is ahead of all 3. 

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, thebandit27 said:

Again I will ask: does anyone see any evidence to support the idea that Allen will continue to improve and elevate his game to the next level?

 

Now, the converse: does anyone see any evidence to support the idea that Allen will NOT continue to improve and elevate his game to the next level?

I am a fan of Josh Allen and do believe he has upside. However, if I could do the draft over I would take Watson over Allen. And if I had the choice now between Watson and Allen, even with his upside,  I would prefer Watson over JA. That's not a criticism of Allen but a statement of preference. 

[thebandit27]

2 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I am a fan of Josh Allen and do believe he has upside. However, if I could do the draft over I would take Watson over Allen. And if I had the choice now between Watson and Allen, even with his upside,  I would prefer Watson over JA. That's not a criticism of Allen but a statement of preference. 

I feel like that is something of a non sequitur.

 

But yes, right now that’s a fairly easy choice. A year from now who knows?

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

2 hours ago, MOVALLEYRANDY said:

Brother, I'm not CALLING to get rid of him. all I'm saying is this ridiculous love craze for a bottom 16 QB is tiresome. I want to be wrong and I'm not an expert, though I coached in Junior College and NAIA for 17 years and my son coached FCS 8 years and is now, well until the virus happened, doing interviews for recruits @ NC State & FCS Gardner-Webb. Much rather have a QB I can trust to make the smart plays. His football IQ is so low for a guy who is so very bright. again, not hatin' but I do have eyes. 

Hope you are right brother !!!!!!

 

is your resume supposed to give your opinion more weight than others!  I know a lot of 4-Star Generals who are dumb as ****.  I have eyes too as well as many others here too, and I see a kid who is still tapping into his potential.  He wasn’t groomed like all these other prodigy QBs yet he’s outplaying most of them.  And for someone like you to say his football IQ is so low is nothing but biased eyes.  You don’t work with him, coach him, or even know him.  In fact, your bias and thumping of your chest says more about your insecurities than Allen.  

[JohnC]

1 minute ago, thebandit27 said:

I feel like that is something of a non sequitur.

 

But yes, right now that’s a fairly easy choice. A year from now who knows?

It's my sense that Allen will never have the consistent accuracy that Watson has. That is the deciding factor for me over JA. I'm confident that the Buffalo qb will get better as time goes by. He is a hard worker and dedicated to his craft. But as a passer compared to Watson he will be more inconsistent. 

[Dr. Who]

25 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Nobody hates Josh Allen on this board. He was the QB I wanted most. But he needs to play better. That is not hatred. That is just a fact. He improved in year two in every category. He needs to continue to get better. No reason to think he won’t, but there is no guarantee he will either.

I can think of three or four who only post so they can hate on the fella. They literally hijack threads to tell you he is not and never will be any good. You have to read very selectively to miss that. Nearly everyone agrees he has to play better and almost everyone recognizes that saying that does not equate to hate. 

[nedboy7]

Talk about creating drama out of nowhere on a peaceful Saturday.   You should get a job at the local news station. 

[hondo in seattle]

2 hours ago, MOVALLEYRANDY said:

Just because he wears the best uniforms in the league doesn't mean he IS good. He is like an untamable stallion. Making plays that are great and others that are stupid. So I'm a BIG "NOT". and I have been a fan since 1965 and want to see a Lombardi before I die. It will be tough this guy.

 

Nonetheless, he's the best QB on the roster.  HOF QBs like Kelly are hard to find.  We'd rather have Josh under center than some random journeyman.  Let's support the guy.

 

Nonetheless, Josh does wear a Bills uni.  He's one of us.  He's  trying his hardest to bring us W's.  He fights for the Bills.  Let's support the guy.  

[GunnerBill]

6 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

I can think of three or four who only post so they can hate on the fella. They literally hijack threads to tell you he is not and never will be any good. You have to read very selectively to miss that. Nearly everyone agrees he has to play better and almost everyone recognizes that saying that does not equate to hate. 

 

There are equally as many who viciously attack anything that isn't absolute faith. The vast majority of posters can entertain sensible discussion and debate about Allen but there are a handful on each side who can't.

[Lurker]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 but there are a handful on each side who can't.

 

 

 

[JohnC]

9 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

There are equally as many who viciously attack anything that isn't absolute faith. The vast majority of posters can entertain sensible discussion and debate about Allen but there are a handful on each side who can't.

Why do you think that flak jackets are made for? ?

[MJS]

I don't think it's good enough to look at Allen and say "it could be worse". That's a bad argument. That's what gets teams into a losing mentality and what had our team cap strapped while still losing in the past, because we had GM's that looked at a player and said "he's not the best, but hey, it could be worse. Give Fitzpatrick a fat contract."

 

I'm a big fan of Allen and I think he'll be here for a long time and I am confident he will improve and one day be nationally recognized as a franchise QB, and I also have confidence in Beane and McDermott. But if Allen or anyone else regresses and turns out not to be the guy, we better cut ties and find someone new. We shouldn't hold on to him just because "It could be worse". That's not a championship caliber thought process.

[BigBillsFan]

My biggest cause of concern is the 2nd half of the season. He had massive regression as a QB. He had the 2 good games against Miami and Dallas but the rest were poor.

[MJS]

16 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

Nonetheless, he's the best QB on the roster.  HOF QBs like Kelly are hard to find.  We'd rather have Josh under center than some random journeyman.  Let's support the guy.

 

Nonetheless, Josh does wear a Bills uni.  He's one of us.  He's  trying his hardest to bring us W's.  He fights for the Bills.  Let's support the guy.  

See, I don't support that mentality. If you have a bad player on your roster, you should be trying to replace him. You shouldn't stick by him through thick and thin just because he is a Bill. Fans recognize bad play just as they recognize good play (and they can be wrong about both sometimes). The goal is to win the Superbowl. That means constantly trimming the fat and replacing with better players. If one day we know that Allen has reached his peak and that peak isn't good enough to win a Superbowl, we need to move on. Luckily we still have a 2-3 years to evaluate him. I personally think he has shown a lot of good signs.

[Boatdrinks]

Some are just miserable no matter what and always know a better way, a way things should have been done. They always know best, would have made a different choice here or there and always want another team’s players, coach etc. Has to be a pretty unsatisfying way to watch the game. 

[Boatdrinks]

33 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

I can think of three or four who only post so they can hate on the fella. They literally hijack threads to tell you he is not and never will be any good. You have to read very selectively to miss that. Nearly everyone agrees he has to play better and almost everyone recognizes that saying that does not equate to hate. 

I agree. It’s very annoying when some fans just want to move on to the next guy before the time for actually making that decision has elapsed. Those are the haters. Now, that window of time is different for each player. It’s a judgment call based on the body of work to that point, level of improvement, input of coaches and GM etc. Draft position/ investment is a factor up to a point , but it’s not the main factor. It’s why an EJ Manuel is quickly moved on from, and why Josh Allen gets more time. The odds are against any drafted QB being franchise, but you have to let it play out. It’s fine to criticize and discuss, but within the framework of knowing the player will be given a reasonable amount of time. Outside of that framework, it’s just histrionics and vitriol. 

[Dopey]

3 hours ago, thebandit27 said:

Again I will ask: does anyone see any evidence to support the idea that Allen will continue to improve and elevate his game to the next level?

 

Now, the converse: does anyone see any evidence to support the idea that Allen will NOT continue to improve and elevate his game to the next level?

To answer the 1st question: YES  I saw a lot of improvement from  yr 1 to yr 2.

To answer the 2nd question: NO  See above.

I will say, this will be his 3rd training camp and same coaching staff. He has as much offensive talent around him as just about any team and a defense that will keep him in contention to win just about every game. The kid gloves are off now. We need to figure out if he's good before his rookie contract is up and he's set up right now to show it. When I say good, I mean $35 million per season good. It's really hard to give a QB more than the rookie contract to prove it. It costs too much.

Edited April 4, 2020 by Dopey

[Don Otreply]

The deal is this, “if” the QB or any other player does not rise to the level that Beane/McDermott want/need over an allotted period of time that player will be traded or released regardless of who that player is. 
 

It not complicated in the least, that’s how it works. Beane and the entire organization treat the players very well, but he is more ruthless than many think, he does not F around. Jmo.

 

Boatdrinks, in his post above makes correct points. 
 

Go Bills!!! 

Edited April 4, 2020 by Don Otreply

[Dopey]

1 hour ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

????????? Gardner Minshew ???LMAO.

 

Thank god your not the GM

https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2019/3/1/18242791/josh-allen-nfl-draft-2019-jacksonville-jaguars-kentucky-scouting-report-film-breakdown-edge

[Logic]

I haven’t read through this whole thread, but...

 

What hate? Nationally and on Twitter, sure, people doubt him or actively mock him. That’s gone on since he declared for the draft. Here in Bills land, though? I don’t see much hate.

 

I DO sometimes see people being level headed and realistic about Allen, though, pointing out that he’s not yet where he needs to be and he needs to continue to improve in order to become a franchise QB. I also see a segment of Bills fans who can’t stand even a WHIFF of criticism or constructive analysis and get their panties in a bunch if you even DARE to point out flaws in Allen’s game. It’s ridiculous. 

 

Its simple: Josh Allen has the tools necessary to be a franchise QB and has flashed enough potential to make many believe that he will achieve “franchise” status. Pointing OUT the fact that he isn’t there yet causes the more sensitive Bills fans to cry persecution and call you a “hater”.

 

My personal view is that he took great strides in year 2, and he’ll need to take equally great strides in year 3. As long as he keeps improving, all is well. If he suddenly STOPS improving and tops out at about the level he’s currently at, then he’s not a franchise QB.

[loyal2dagame]

Wow,  Josh Allen is polarizing. I'm a pro-Allen guy and with that disclaimer out of the way,  i will add this: 

Right now,  Allen is just good enough. Good enough to not throw picks in the redzone,  or 4th quarter based on 2019. Good enough to manage the game to get a win or maybe put together a game winning drive in the 4th quarter.  

I am waiting for a string of games where he takes over and dominates. I don't need 300 yrd games.... i need more than 24 points,  ball control,  and clock management. 

Comparing Qb's is getting silly. Everybody wants their guy to be the next big thing,  but a lot of people use tunnel vision looking at their Qb. Mahomes, Watson, Mayfield, ect, what was their average time to throw? How often did they have a clean pocket? How many times do they have to scramble and throw on the run? How many drive killing DROPS did their receivers have? How many drive killing penalties? How much is on the player and how much is on the playcalling? 

Only by being a complete tape nerd can you answer those questions and make a somewhat educated guess. Comparisons and what ifs are getting old. Wins matter.

The Bills are relevant again for the first time in a loooong time.  Allen is in the driver seat.  Sit back and enjoy the ride. I'm sure every Bill's fan is hoping he doesn't crash. And if you are a Bills fan rooting against him succeeding,  there may be something wrong with your fandom. 

 

[JaCrispy]

4 hours ago, JMF2006 said:

I have said it before and I will say it again I remember a lot of Bills fans wanting Reich to start over Kelly permanently.

 

Its human nature...the grass is always greener on the other side of the street. 

Exactly, you always want better than what you have...

[Bangarang]

Allen hasn’t proven he’s a franchise QB yet and there are obviously flaws to his game. 
 

He might continue to improve and be one of the best QBs in the league for a long time. Or maybe we’re looking for a new QB in a few years. Either way, I’m just along for the ride.

Edited April 4, 2020 by Bangarang

[Billl]

2 hours ago, njbuff said:

 

Darnold and Mayfield are in the same boat as Allen, but Allen CLEARLY has the best support system by a country mile when compared to the other two.

 

Wentz was on his way to an MVP before getting injured in 2017.

 

Dak has proven to be a game manager and is NOT worth the big contract he will get. Ok, maybe a little better than a game manager, but replaceable.

 

Goff went to a SB and can be good, but the talent around him is eroding a little bit.

Dak is replaceable?  He just threw for 10 more TDs and nearly 2000 yards more than Allen while completing over 65% of his passes and runs just as well as Josh.  He also never gets hurt.

[Bangarang]

1 minute ago, Billl said:

Dak is replaceable?  He just threw for 10 more TDs and nearly 2000 yards more than Allen while completing over 65% of his passes and runs just as well as Josh.  He also never gets hurt.

Isn’t it hilarious how people here talk about other QBs compared to Allen?

[JaCrispy]

1 minute ago, Bangarang said:

Isn’t it hilarious how people here talk about other QBs compared to Allen?

I have noticed as well...very illuminating- almost like Josh is a blood relative...

[Thurman#1]

4 hours ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

I don’t get the hate that Josh Allen gets around here.

 

 

 

Please. This is not hate. Beyond a few trolls, hate for Allen doesn't exist here.

 

Just because it's less than unconditional belief and faith absolutely does not mean it's hate.

[BigBillsFan]

1 hour ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

is your resume supposed to give your opinion more weight than others!  I know a lot of 4-Star Generals who are dumb as ****.  I have eyes too as well as many others here too, and I see a kid who is still tapping into his potential.  He wasn’t groomed like all these other prodigy QBs yet he’s outplaying most of them.  And for someone like you to say his football IQ is so low is nothing but biased eyes.  You don’t work with him, coach him, or even know him.  In fact, your bias and thumping of your chest says more about your insecurities than Allen.  

 

He's just saying he has perspective, not that he is more valuable. Saying his football IQ is low is not biased, it's his view-point. What you could do if you weren't so biased yourself is maybe ask him "why do you think he has a low IQ?" Then be patient and make a reasonable response.

[JaCrispy]

What worried me most about Allen is that when the pressure grew in that Texans games, the worse he got...he’s gotta prove he can handle stressful situations and not flake out like he did...it was embarrassing to watch...and is not how a franchise QB responds...

Edited April 4, 2020 by JaCrispy

[BuffaloBills1998]

21 minutes ago, Dopey said:

https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2019/3/1/18242791/josh-allen-nfl-draft-2019-jacksonville-jaguars-kentucky-scouting-report-film-breakdown-edge

I’m sorry I thought he was referring to Gardner for some reason. I didn’t hear much about Allen in Jax

[papazoid]

i'd say less than 1% "HATE" him.....

 

by all statistical measures he's not in the Top 20 of nfl qb's

 

 he has weaknesses.....therefore, he gets some criticism 

 

criticism does not equal hate

[Phil The Thrill]

4 hours ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

Trust me I like Reich as much as the next fan. But he was in no way a starting QB, both Carolina and The Jets found that out the hard way. Great teammate and probably the best back up that ever played the game, but was a horrible starter. If the NFL had a Hall Of Fame for back ups he’d probably be a first ballot lol

The Bills found that out in Super Bowl 27 as well.

 

To be fair, by the time Reich went to Carolina he was 34 and on the downside of this career.  I think his career as starter might have been a little different if they traded him in 1990 or 1991.  But still I don’t think he ever would’ve been as good as Kelly 

[thebandit27]

42 minutes ago, Billl said:

Dak is replaceable?  He just threw for 10 more TDs and nearly 2000 yards more than Allen while completing over 65% of his passes and runs just as well as Josh.  He also never gets hurt.

You know what would be nice? If somehow the two were put up against each other in a nationally televised game, where each had to face a top-10 defense. Then we could see which one of them had the best game of his career and which one turned the ball over twice and needed a garbage time score to crest 7 points.

 

If only...

 

...wait...