PFF says Bills have top 5 roster?

[H2o]

13 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

So wait? Now do we like PFF?  Or do we hate them because of White and Allen’s ratings?  I’m so confused and I just bought my Collinsworth voodoo doll.  I hate him because of the website he owns!!!

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

1 hour ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Schedule will be a lot harder. Big difference though is 9-7 might win the AFC East next year.

 

It's going to be a grind next year. But we have a better team and Allen should improve. 

 

Not going to be easy - gotta win at least 4 in the East.  None of them are particular cupcake games - although i do think gase stinks as a coach.  3 home games of LA, LA and Seattle traveling cross country.  They need to win 2 of those.  And 3 of Pitt, Arizona, Denver, LV, Tenn.  I like the idea of our fans traveling well to Vegas the most of our away games.  4 away games in zona, vegas, denver, SF - brutal slate.  That would get them to 9 - with assumed losses to SF and KC. 

 

I don't think its particularly far-fetched to get to 9.  If Allen progresses and improves - my prediction would be 10 wins.  4 wins in division - Home wins over LAC, LAR, Pitt.  Away wins over Denver, LV, Tennessee.  

 

Assuming its even a full season.

[Hebert19]

2 hours ago, Clemfield2622 said:

Surely, this can't be right coming from PFF

 

Not a long video, but tune in at :27

 

 

3 short years ago we were considered to have the worst one in the league.  Mcbeane combo know what they are doing. 

[billsfan89]

The thing that stands out to me about the construction of the roster is that there is no glaring weakness and both lines have excellent depth. I think for the first time in a long time the draft is needed only purely to address depth along the roster. Even in 2015 after a strong off-season with a great defense in place (At that point we hadn't known how poorly Rex would ***** the defense) and a lot of additions to the offense the team still had issues along the right side of the offensive line and the plan at QB was unclear. 

 

But in 2020 going into the draft I don't see any massive non-depth needs on the roster. I think DE, WR, RB, DB, and LB units could have more depth and youth but overall I don't see the glaring needs that exist. My ideal draft would be to take a good DE in round 2 to round out the D-line and add some youth to a mostly older unit (Outside of Ed and Henry Phillips there isn't much younger players there) and then take a WR in round 3 (No depth behind BBD and Beasley and Brown are North of 30) and a RB in round 4. 

 

With their 5th round pick they can find a CB, Safety, or LB just to add some depth there. I don't think they need depth along the O-line (You have 4 legit backups there and you can always sign Waddle to compete in camp) or at TE (I think TE is a somewhat weak spot on the roster but I am fine with it.) Overall the construction of the roster is great. 

[C.Biscuit97]

6 minutes ago, Hebert19 said:

3 short years ago we were considered to have the worst one in the league.  Mcbeane combo know what they are doing. 

Huh?  They made it the worst roster.  This is what I don’t like about the McBeane stuff.  They have done a good job but people completely overrated the “turnaround” they did.  They act like it was the Browns they took over and had 1 win.  They took over a team that averaged 8 wins and have plenty of guys playing key roles on other teams.  This wasn’t a bad situation at all they inherited.

[Malazan]

PFF should be banned from this site

[Ethan in Cleveland]

4 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I know that you think edge is the weakest spot. We disagree slightly there. I think that the Bills are fine at edge for 2020. There are A LOT of questions beyond this year. Over the next couple of years I think we will see an entirely new crew there. I expect to see a new body this year but the edge concern is more beyond 2020 than in 2020.

I disagree pending the draft. We lack explosiveness on the edge.  They got older on the DL. I think the new guys will be capable.  If they add an OLB on day 2 I will be happy.  I agree edge will be a need in 2021 and 2022 with aging front 7.

 

Of course edge would be fine if they just moved Edmunds to OLB where he would be an all-pro.  

Philosophical question.  Can you be a top 5 roster without a top 15 QB?  I say no.  

[ROCBillsBeliever]

4 hours ago, DFT said:

Dogs and cats living together....

 

Not that there's anything wrong with that...

 

?

[Kirby Jackson]

3 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

I disagree pending the draft. We lack explosiveness on the edge.  They got older on the DL. I think the new guys will be capable.  If they add an OLB on day 2 I will be happy.  I agree edge will be a need in 2021 and 2022 with aging front 7.

 

Of course edge would be fine if they just moved Edmunds to OLB where he would be an all-pro.  

Philosophical question.  Can you be a top 5 roster without a top 15 QB?  I say no.  

That’s a tough question but I’d tend to agree. At the same time Josh is a total wild card. He could be anywhere from top 5 to 30 this year. I tend to think that he will give them average to above average QB play this year. Somewhere in that 12-15 range. That’s probably enough for this roster to be considered top 5. There aren’t many holes.

 

In terms of edge I agree that there needs more explosiveness. I’m fine taking a chance on a guy as soon as 54. I just think that we will be okay short-term with the guys we have. I’d expect the Addison-Hughes-Murphy group to combine for about 25 sacks. I think that when you add in the DTs, LBs, DBs and everyone else you’re probably looking at another 22. That’s slightly ahead of where they were a year ago (44) when they were 12th in the league. I think that they can be a borderline top 10 team in terms of sacks and even a little better in terms of pressure. They just have a lot of quality bodies across the defense to throw at it. What they lack in an elite guy (outside of Oliver) they will make up for with good depth.

[BuffaloHokie13]

11 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Philosophical question.  Can you be a top 5 roster without a top 15 QB?  I say no.  

By my metric Allen finished last year 16th of qualifying QBs. With the added firepower its not a  big step to get there imo. I'd guesstimate he'll finish in the 9-12 range this season. 

[ROCBillsBeliever]

It's also rather mysterious that PFF rates all of our roster's PLAYERS as trash, and yet, somehow our ROSTER is top 5 in the NFL...

 

Got me feeling like ???

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I’d expect the Addison-Hughes-Murphy group to combine for about 25 sacks. 

 

That group last year combined for 20. I don't see how Hughes and Addison a year older leads to more. I think there is maybe a 5% chance they hit 25 sacks between that trio. 

[Kirby Jackson]

12 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

That group last year combined for 20. I don't see how Hughes and Addison a year older leads to more. I think there is maybe a 5% chance they hit 25 sacks between that trio. 

Murphy had 2 sacks in the finale and 2 sacks in the playoff game. Maybe he was getting healthy? I think 8 is reasonable for him if that’s the case. Addison seems to consistently be in that 8-10 range (although he was much better early last year than late). Hughes has always gotten pressure but rarely gotten home but again he had 3 sacks in the playoff game. With the rate at which Jefferson and Oliver win in pass rush situations these other guys are going to get some cleanup sacks. The improved pressure inside is what I’m counting on to hit those numbers. We should be REALLY good at pressuring the QB from the interior.

Edited March 31, 2020 by Kirby Jackson

[GoBills808]

5 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Murphy had 2 sacks in the finale and 2 sacks in the playoff game. Maybe he was getting healthy? I think 8 is reasonable got him if that’s the case. Addison seems to consistently be in that 8-10 range (although he was much better early last year than late). Hughes has always gotten pressure but rarely gotten home but again he had 3 sacks in the playoff game. With the rate at which Jefferson and Oliver win in pass rush situations these other guys are going to get some cleanup sacks. The improved pressure inside is what I’m counting on to hit those numbers. We should be REALLY good at pressuring the QB from the interior.

If Oliver is who I think he is edge pressure isn't going to matter a ton. Contain outside, disrupt inside, send Edmunds whenever you can.

[Kirby Jackson]

1 minute ago, GoBills808 said:

If Oliver is who I think he is edge pressure isn't going to matter a ton. Contain outside, disrupt inside, send Edmunds whenever you can.

That’s kind of my thought. Jefferson was 5th in pass rush win rate from the interior and Oliver 7th last year. With Oliver coming on I see no reason that he won’t be in the top 5 this year in that stat. He is going to consistently be in the backfield forcing QBs out. 

[Bangarang]

TBD: “PFF is wrong and don’t know what they’re talking about. They can’t be taken seriously.”

Also TBD: “Hey everyone look at the nice things PFF is saying about us”

Edited March 31, 2020 by Bangarang

[GunnerBill]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

If Oliver is who I think he is edge pressure isn't going to matter a ton. Contain outside, disrupt inside, send Edmunds whenever you can.

 

I love Oliver and edge pressure not mattering a ton in terms of winning games and making the playoffs I agree. I think in order to truly, and I mean truly, contend for a Championship we will have to be better off the edge. Maybe we draft someone in round 2 or 3 who is the answer, maybe Addison has more left than I think, maybe Murphy suddenly does start playing consistently or maybe Darryl Johnson breaks out (best case scenario IMO) but if not I think our lack of consistent edge rush will ultimately hold us back in the biggest moments.

[H2o]

1 minute ago, Bangarang said:

PFF is wrong and don’t know what they’re talking about. 
 

-TBD

My Pop used to tell me, "A blind crow gets a piece of corn every once in a while." 

 

Blind crow = PFF

[wppete]

PFF is a joke. 

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I love Oliver and edge pressure not mattering a ton in terms of winning games and making the playoffs I agree. I think in order to truly, and I mean truly, contend for a Championship we will have to be better off the edge. Maybe we draft someone in round 2 or 3 who is the answer, maybe Addison has more left than I think, maybe Murphy suddenly does start playing consistently or maybe Darryl Johnson breaks out (best case scenario IMO) but if not I think our lack of consistent edge rush will ultimately hold us back in the biggest moments.

I agree to an extent. Having that guy at DE can make up for a lot of defensive deficiencies. But we don't really suffer from anything OTHER than lack of talent at DE...and with the surrounding pieces esp @ LB I don't think the talent gap between a Bosa and Addison/Hughes/Murphy combo is something our defense can't fairly easily overcome. 

[Cal]

Everything is on Allen, we get it

[billsfan89]

32 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

That group last year combined for 20. I don't see how Hughes and Addison a year older leads to more. I think there is maybe a 5% chance they hit 25 sacks between that trio. 

 

In my mind I hope a good DE is there at pick 54. Edge rush is such an older group for far too critical a position. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

I stopped at PFF.

 

[GoBills808]

19 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

TBD: “PFF is wrong and don’t know what they’re talking about. They can’t be taken seriously.”

Also TBD: “Hey everyone look at the nice things PFF is saying about us”

I would wager they don't have many if any Bills players ranked anywhere near top 5 at their positions, especially if they had our best player in White @16th best DB in the league

 

Square that w/this top 5 roster claim and the rooting for Allen to fail lmaoo...it's palpable

[skibum]

Not a lot of superstars, but a few elite position groups (S, WR, CB), depth galore, and basically no weak links anywhere, assuming they are able to find a competent RB2 - one of the easiest positions to fill. 

[Kirby Jackson]

1 minute ago, GoBills808 said:

I would wager they don't have many if any Bills players ranked anywhere near top 5 at their positions, especially if they had our best player in White @16th best DB in the league

 

Square that w/this top 5 roster claim and the rooting for Allen to fail lmaoo...it's palpable

PFF LOVES Diggs I think. I’m not a PFF guy but think that he’s one of their little childish crushes.

[davspo]

It's all about Allen and continuing to add weapons for him.  They took a big step with adding Diggs, but there is more work that needs to be done on that side of the ball.  Tight End remains a question mark, as it has for the last decade and a half. The right tackle situation is a question mark.  The running back department behind Singletary is a question mark.  Most importantly Allen needs to take a step forward.  These questions need to be answered.  I have great faith in this front office, however I am not willing to say we are the team to beat in the AFC East just yet.  

[Stank_Nasty]

3 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

So wait? Now do we like PFF?  Or do we hate them because of White and Allen’s ratings?  I’m so confused and I just bought my Collinsworth voodoo doll.  I hate him because of the website he owns!!!

Nope. I’ve seen enough laughable content from them that i put very little stock into whether they say good things or bad about the bills, or any other team, for that matter. 
 

... but I can only speak for myself. 

[chris heff]

5 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I've said this a few times that the Bills could be a better team in 2020 but finish with a worse record due to schedule. 

Aside from AFC East and NFC West who do the Bills play?

[FeelingOnYouboty]

All the love is getting crazy now lol. I don’t know how to deal!

[BuffaloHokie13]

17 minutes ago, chris heff said:

Aside from AFC East and NFC West who do the Bills play?

AFC West, Steelers, and Titans

[chris heff]

9 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

AFC West, Steelers, and Titans

What idiot made that schedule? So four West coast trips?

[MJS]

1 hour ago, Bangarang said:

TBD: “PFF is wrong and don’t know what they’re talking about. They can’t be taken seriously.”

Also TBD: “Hey everyone look at the nice things PFF is saying about us”

 

Actually, many of the posts have been criticizing PFF for the discrepancy of rating our players poorly and then somehow stating that our roster is good. I haven't seen much inconsistency.

[GunnerBill]

9 minutes ago, chris heff said:

What idiot made that schedule? So four West coast trips?

 

You do realise these things are done on a cycle, right?

53 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

PFF LOVES Diggs I think. I’m not a PFF guy but think that he’s one of their little childish crushes.

 

They are right to love him too. 

[LABILLBACKER]

6 hours ago, whatdrought said:

All depends on QB. I think our positional groups (with the exception of RB which is incomplete, DL which is a mystery, and OL which is trending up) all stack very nicely with the NFL elite. 
 

 

No doubt we will acquire an excellent RB2 early and a developmental edge guy later. I completely agree our wr corp is basically set. This is a top 5 roster but in order to have a top 5 result it will depend on Josh improving again and our defense. With 14 teams making the playoffs we're a lock to get in. Just don't blow anymore 16 pt leads.

[GunnerBill]

16 minutes ago, MJS said:

 

Actually, many of the posts have been criticizing PFF for the discrepancy of rating our players poorly and then somehow stating that our roster is good. I haven't seen much inconsistency.

 

The only Bills starters PFF rated as "below average" for 2019 were Ford, Di Marco and Spain. They also had Klein below average with the Saints if he, as expected, becomes the 3rd starter at linebacker. That doesn't strike me as rating our roster poorly. 

 

I have said it many, many times that their grading schemes are not faultless they have their flaws... but this idea that they are constantly beating down on Buffalo is just yet more paranoia from the fan base. The one thing I hoped would change when we got better is the absolute need of our fans for it to be Buffalo vs the world. It is tiring. 

 

Just for comparison - the Bills players that PFF graded as "high quality" in 2019:

- Micah Hyde

- Jordan Poyer

- Tre White

- Trent Murphy

- Jerry Hughes

- Dion Dawkins

- John Brown

- Cole Beasley

 

They also graded Jefferson and Diggs in that category FWIW. 

Edited March 31, 2020 by GunnerBill

[IgotBILLStopay]

7 hours ago, Clemfield2622 said:

Surely, this can't be right coming from PFF

 

Not a long video, but tune in at :27

 

 

They must be evaluating our roster with Matt Barkley instead of Josh Allen.?

[MJS]

15 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The only Bills starters PFF rated as "below average" for 2019 were Ford, Di Marco and Spain. They also had Klein below average with the Saints if he, as expected, becomes the 3rd starter at linebacker. That doesn't strike me as rating our roster poorly. 

 

I have said it many, many times that their grading schemes are not faultless they have their flaws... but this idea that they are constantly beating down on Buffalo is just yet more paranoia from the fan base. The one thing I hoped would change when we got better is the absolute need of our fans for it to be Buffalo vs the world. It is tiring. 

No, they literally make Twitter posts to incite Bills fans. For fun, I guess.

 

It's not about rating players below average, it's about rating players incorrectly, and not just Bills players.

 

I personally don't have a huge problem with PFF, I just think their system is flawed and ultimately not as useful as many think. Part of the problem is inconsistency in scoring between those who assign the scores. One person might be more harsh while one is more favorable.

Edited March 31, 2020 by MJS

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, MJS said:

No, they literally make Twitter posts to invite Bills fans. For fun, I guess.

 

It's not about rating players below average, it's about rating players incorrectly, and not just Bills players.

 

I personally don't have a huge problem with PFF, I just think their system is flawed and ultimately not as useful as many think. Part of the problem is inconsistency in scoring between those who assign the scores. One person might be more harsh while one is more favorable.

 

But your post before literally said they were hypocritical for under rating Bills players and then saying we had a potential top 5 roster? 

 

If your point is there are things about their grading system that are flawed. I agree. But your initial point was very much that they always underrate Bills players. I think having Trent Murphy rated as a quality starter is about as far away from under rating as it is possible to get. 

[MJS]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

But your post before literally said they were hypocritical for under rating Bills players and then saying we had a potential top 5 roster? 

 

If your point is there are things about their grading system that are flawed. I agree. But your initial point was very much that they always underrate Bills players. I think having Trent Murphy rated as a quality starter is about as far away from under rating as it is possible to get. 

No, my post was in reference to the many posts in this thread. I didn't give my own opinion in that post. I responded to a poster who claimed that Bills fans accept the positive from PFF but reject the negative. I shared that many people were not doing that in this thread.