r henderson Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 I've been on lockdown all week with the coronavirus pandemic affecting everyone's life. But it gave me a chance to watch every Bills game from the past season. I really like Dion Dawkins, but I can't see paying an average LT almost 45 million with almost 25 million guaranteed. This years draft is loaded with true LT prospects. In all honesty when Dion came out of college his skill set and body type was that of a guard. Honestly Dion nor Cody are true LT and RT. Both players need to be moved inside. Have you watched the Houston! Granted Josh made some bad decision, but all the pressure was coming off the edge. There's several OT who will be in reach with our 54th pick. Be it moving up or staying put. Players like Austin Jackson from USC, Isaiah Wilson from Georgia, Prince Tega Wanogho from Auburn, Josh Jones from Houston and Ezra Cleveland from Boise State. I'm not trying create more holes, but both tackles need to be upgraded in my opinion. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prickly Pete Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 I gotta look into the linemen coming out, but now that they have Diggs, I hope they use the 2nd on an O- lineman if a good prospect is there. Can never have too many. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
947 Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 I think Dawkins is an above-average LT, say 70th percentile. Yeah, he had some gaffs in the playoff game, but still a solid player. I agree he isn't worth top-5 LT money, hopefully he'll follow Spain's lead & take a reasonable deal. Otherwise, we're either paying a FA LT top dollar, trying to draft a rookie with a likely very late 1st rounder, or going back to having a bad LT situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longtimebillsfan Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 (edited) 19 minutes ago, r henderson said: I've been on lockdown all week with the coronavirus pandemic affecting everyone's life. But it gave me a chance to watch every Bills game from the past season. I really like Dion Dawkins, but I can't see paying an average LT almost 45 million with almost 25 million guaranteed. This years draft is loaded with true LT prospects. In all honesty when Dion came out of college his skill set and body type was that of a guard. Honestly Dion nor Cody are true LT and RT. Both players need to be moved inside. Have you watched the Houston! Granted Josh made some bad decision, but all the pressure was coming off the edge. There's several OT who will be in reach with our 54th pick. Be it moving up or staying put. Players like Austin Jackson from USC, Isaiah Wilson from Georgia, Prince Tega Wanogho from Auburn, Josh Jones from Houston and Ezra Cleveland from Boise State. I'm not trying create more holes, but both tackles need to be upgraded in my opinion. 19 minutes ago, r henderson said: I have similar thoughts. Dawkins had a solid year in 2019, but he is not yet elite. He may grow into that status. Time will tell. This upcoming draft will be interesting. I have no idea who they will draft in the second round. Hopefully BPA. Edited March 21, 2020 by longtimebillsfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Blitz Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 23 minutes ago, r henderson said: I've been on lockdown all week with the coronavirus pandemic affecting everyone's life. But it gave me a chance to watch every Bills game from the past season. I really like Dion Dawkins, but I can't see paying an average LT almost 45 million with almost 25 million guaranteed. This years draft is loaded with true LT prospects. In all honesty when Dion came out of college his skill set and body type was that of a guard. Honestly Dion nor Cody are true LT and RT. Both players need to be moved inside. Have you watched the Houston! Granted Josh made some bad decision, but all the pressure was coming off the edge. There's several OT who will be in reach with our 54th pick. Be it moving up or staying put. Players like Austin Jackson from USC, Isaiah Wilson from Georgia, Prince Tega Wanogho from Auburn, Josh Jones from Houston and Ezra Cleveland from Boise State. I'm not trying create more holes, but both tackles need to be upgraded in my opinion. I've flipped on the 2 biggest positions need (tho we're ok or pretty good at both). OT and then DE. Shocker. The trenches. I said I'd still consider WR in the draft--maybe later tho.. and go OT or a Center (I'm in a small minority with that one) in round 2. Depends on their board going BPA is never a bad idea. But if the OT can push for a job absolutely and we need depth there. As for Dawkins he's a top 15 LT in the league. He had his best year. Someone would have to push him to lose his job. He definitely improved this season. And works well with Spain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mountain Man Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 I wondered when the next pointless move Dion Dawkins topic would be created. He is a decent LT. They are rare in the NFL. End of story. 6 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptnCoke11 Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 (edited) Here we go again with this nonsense Edited March 21, 2020 by CaptnCoke11 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 (edited) He'll get paid because he's a good player and nobody on the roster can play LT better than him. Above average linemen are held on to unless they get the injury bug or you are cap strapped. Yeah, he's not elite, but he's solid. He deserves to get paid when his turn is up. EDIT: And people need to stop pretending to know what makes a player a good guard vs a tackle. You don't know. You're just spewing nonsense from other people who also don't know. Leave it to the coaches to line them up. Edited March 21, 2020 by MJS 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mc1320 Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 Why? Why do you think you can read film better than professional football coaches? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussie Joe Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 3 hours ago, r henderson said: I really like Dion Dawkins, but I can't see paying an average LT almost 45 million with almost 25 million guaranteed. If they sign him they will be paying him more than that.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOUSE Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 (edited) He's not moving !!! Edited March 21, 2020 by HOUSE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GETTOTHE50 Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 Tight end. I mean did you even see his TD against the patriots? Goddamn. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEpsYtown Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 4 hours ago, r henderson said: I've been on lockdown all week with the coronavirus pandemic affecting everyone's life. But it gave me a chance to watch every Bills game from the past season. I really like Dion Dawkins, but I can't see paying an average LT almost 45 million with almost 25 million guaranteed. This years draft is loaded with true LT prospects. In all honesty when Dion came out of college his skill set and body type was that of a guard. Honestly Dion nor Cody are true LT and RT. Both players need to be moved inside. Have you watched the Houston! Granted Josh made some bad decision, but all the pressure was coming off the edge. There's several OT who will be in reach with our 54th pick. Be it moving up or staying put. Players like Austin Jackson from USC, Isaiah Wilson from Georgia, Prince Tega Wanogho from Auburn, Josh Jones from Houston and Ezra Cleveland from Boise State. I'm not trying create more holes, but both tackles need to be upgraded in my opinion. So here’s the thing, there is close to zero chance any of those guys will be better than Dawkins over the next few years. You are taking your home grown guy, who was raw coming out, who has developed into an average left tackle with room to grow and replacing him with people who will be a work in progress during our window of contention? Just doesn’t make sense. Like Jackson, he’s raw, very athletic, good length, but is going to need a lot of time and may wind up at guard. I like Isaiah Wilson a lot, but he is a right tackle prospect and I think he is going to be very good. But he is a RT only guy, and like Cody Ford has issues in pass pro he needs to work on. Prince is extremely raw, being a late comer to the sport. His body is long and lean and has to add muscle. He also has extremely short arms so its a long-shot that he stays at LT in the pros. And is probably too small to kick inside. Jones is a nice prospect, but again he is raw and isn’t likely to be ready to start right away. He also has shorter than ideal arms. Cleveland again is another athletic guy, with short arms, who needs to add strength to his frame to hold up against NFL rushers. Even guys like Wirfs and Thomas are likely right tackles in the NFL. My point is none of these people will be instant upgrades at either position and they all have holes in their game that need to get developed. Dawkins has developed. Just a year ago Ford was a raw line prospect who had some struggles. A year under his belt helps him develop. We really want to hit the reset button and start that process over? Cody flashed at times and You do not move him to guard unless you know for sure that he can’t play tackle. Dion may never be an elite LT, but the dude is at the very least above average, and at 25 years old still has room to grow. There are a couple of elite left tackles in the NFL, and then there is everybody else. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florida Bills Fanatic Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 4 hours ago, Mountain Man said: I wondered when the next pointless move Dion Dawkins topic would be created. He is a decent LT. They are rare in the NFL. End of story. You couldn't be more correct. If you read this board, we should have about 6 guys playing guard, a couple of new rookies playing tackle or at a minimum someone's castoff playing right tackle. People want to point to isolated statistics and make grand proclamations about the team. The o-line has room to improve, receivers need to get open within the timing of the play, the QB needs to deliver the ball on time, and running backs need to hit the hole and read the blocks. Watching the Bills last year, those things didn't always happen in unison and the result looked like the o-line didn't perform which was not always the case. I trust the coaches to have a better grip on this than any of us who are posting on this board. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah John Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 We had a LT who was better than Dawkins, Cordy Glenn, and he's available again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 Yes, he’d likely be a better guard than a tackle... but... He’s proven himself capable of playing LT long-term, so there he shall stay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 I’ll almost never complain about taking a big ugly early in the draft. But I am not doing that to move or replace Dawkins anytime soon. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rochesterfan Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 6 hours ago, r henderson said: I've been on lockdown all week with the coronavirus pandemic affecting everyone's life. But it gave me a chance to watch every Bills game from the past season. I really like Dion Dawkins, but I can't see paying an average LT almost 45 million with almost 25 million guaranteed. This years draft is loaded with true LT prospects. In all honesty when Dion came out of college his skill set and body type was that of a guard. Honestly Dion nor Cody are true LT and RT. Both players need to be moved inside. Have you watched the Houston! Granted Josh made some bad decision, but all the pressure was coming off the edge. There's several OT who will be in reach with our 54th pick. Be it moving up or staying put. Players like Austin Jackson from USC, Isaiah Wilson from Georgia, Prince Tega Wanogho from Auburn, Josh Jones from Houston and Ezra Cleveland from Boise State. I'm not trying create more holes, but both tackles need to be upgraded in my opinion. Man - I knew the virus was bad, but it really seems to be affecting Logic. So you do not want to a proven LT 45 million with 25 GTD, but you think we should look to move him elsewhere and then draft a replacement at the end of the second round. Great let’s spin the tires some more. 1st off - it really doesn’t matter where you move him LT/RT/Guard - basically at this point the top guys are getting paid nearly the equivalent salary. Top LTs are around 17 million, with the top RT exceeding that, guards are getting 15+ million - so you are paying him 3/45million with 25 GTD approximately whether you keep him at tackle or guard. So the real idea is don’t sweat it. Draft BPA - do not create un-needed holes and if the BPA is a Tackle prospect let him play and use that in your decision. If BPA is RB, WR, DE, etc - draft that and you still have Dion who is fine. No matter what you are paying Dion the same money or you are getting rid of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMAKCruiser Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 What is the obsession on this board of taking average to above average tackles and moving them to a position they have NEVER played in the NFL??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory Formation Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 I think Dawkins is an above average LT with room to grow. He’s certainly not elite but he’s good enough to be a quality starter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 6 hours ago, Mountain Man said: I wondered when the next pointless move Dion Dawkins topic would be created. He is a decent LT. They are rare in the NFL. End of story. Yup, and I'd argue you should replace "decent" with "good." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Call_Of_Ktulu Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 Dawkins is closer to the below average side than the solid player side. I think he is below average at pass pro and average at run blocking. I dont think that he moves particularly well and he still has issues with footwork. Dawkins was horrible in the playoff game vs Houston. When Dawkins goes against good DE’s he is abused. I would love to watch a practice and see how he does vs Hughes, I guessing Hughes just undresses Dawkins in practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 Moving him anyplace will mean you need two lineman one to play LT now which we don't have and not likely to get an elite one either drafting 54th, then a second one to replace Dawkins when his contract expires. LT get paid the most, Dawkins has played there for three seasons now, so will want to be paid LT money. If you move him he will find a team that will still play him at LT and pay him the money that position warrants and will be gone once his contract is up. If you were to move him, doubt they'd pick up the option then either, so likely net off-season he'd be gone. I'll grant you, he's not elite and neither is Ford, but easier to move Ford inside without losing him than Dawkins. Personally I think they should raft a RT high, let him be the backup for a season or could play sooner if someone gets injured. Then next off-season, you don't resign Feliciano and move Ford to his spot inside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Call_Of_Ktulu Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 11 minutes ago, Victory Formation said: I think Dawkins is an above average LT with room to grow. He’s certainly not elite but he’s good enough to be a quality starter. I would capitalize certainly because he is closer to below average than good. I think he is a slight step above a solid back up LT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codyny13 Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 7 hours ago, r henderson said: I've been on lockdown all week with the coronavirus pandemic affecting everyone's life. But it gave me a chance to watch every Bills game from the past season. I really like Dion Dawkins, but I can't see paying an average LT almost 45 million with almost 25 million guaranteed. This years draft is loaded with true LT prospects. In all honesty when Dion came out of college his skill set and body type was that of a guard. Honestly Dion nor Cody are true LT and RT. Both players need to be moved inside. Have you watched the Houston! Granted Josh made some bad decision, but all the pressure was coming off the edge. There's several OT who will be in reach with our 54th pick. Be it moving up or staying put. Players like Austin Jackson from USC, Isaiah Wilson from Georgia, Prince Tega Wanogho from Auburn, Josh Jones from Houston and Ezra Cleveland from Boise State. I'm not trying create more holes, but both tackles need to be upgraded in my opinion. I gotta say I disagree. Dion was a 4 year starter in college at LT, including as a true freshmen. At 6’5” and 320 he definitely has the size of a LT, rather than guard, where typically players are a little shorter for leverage and pad level. He’s also demonstrated great feet and athleticism that you need at that position. Hell he’s gone out and caught a cpl of TD’s. He’s not a top 5 LT, but I don’t worry about him going into a game. He’s had a few bad moments, like every player, but coming off his best season to date, I think he has an upward trajectory. People always said the same thing about Cordy Glenn, and although both players could probably make that move and be successful, it’s far more difficult to identify a consistent player at that left tackle spot. You can select another guy at pick 54, but like any player, you can’t be sure you’re going to hit on them. ? at Greg Robinson...As far a Cody Ford, you need to give him more time. He’s a talented kid that definitely got better at the end of the season. Stack on top of that he was injured and had shoulder surgery when the season concluded. That had to effect his ability to get leverage. You do have Nsecke to compete at that RT spot, and if Ford can’t get the job done, you do have a guy that can step in and do that job. If this happens maybe next offseason you can say, let’s move Ford to guard full time and look for somebody to fill that spot going forward. I’m all for competition and if a player is sitting there with a high grade and Beane sees him as BPA np. I’m sure we’re all happy to collect talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
without a drought Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 I'd move him to TE if he can catch, if not it looks like FB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory Formation Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 49 minutes ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said: I would capitalize certainly because he is closer to below average than good. I think he is a slight step above a solid back up LT. I think if Dawkins was a free agent this year he’d be looking at $14M AAV, maybe more. Replacing him would be a tall order and I see no reason to create a hole where there need not be one. He is not the weak link on this OL. Weak link is RT and perhaps RG. Feliciano and Ford should be replaced before Dawkins. Dawkins gave Allen good protection last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethan in Cleveland Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 Dawkins is a slightly above average LT. I don’t see them moving him to RT unless they sign a veteran. I’d entertain bringing in Jason Peters and moving Dawkins to RT. Bringing back Spain solidified the guard spots. If they had let Spain walk, moving Dawkins to LG may have been contemplated but the more likely move would have been Ford to guard and Nsekhe/free agent at RT. As I posted before free agency, sign Spain and keep Ford at RT will be the best plan and I think that is what they will do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 Why are Bills fans so obsessed with turning every tackle into a guard? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wppete Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 Hes a LT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Call_Of_Ktulu Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 2 hours ago, Victory Formation said: I think if Dawkins was a free agent this year he’d be looking at $14M AAV, maybe more. Replacing him would be a tall order and I see no reason to create a hole where there need not be one. He is not the weak link on this OL. Weak link is RT and perhaps RG. Feliciano and Ford should be replaced before Dawkins. Dawkins gave Allen good protection last year. Thats where I let another team give him that deal. No way am I giving Dawkins even close to a 4 year 60 mil deal. I am on the side of moving Dawkins to LG but I was also extremely vocal about Eric Wood being moved to Center. Our OT’s are the major glaring weakness on this team. Ford has room to grow but I think Dawkins is what he is at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mountain Man Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 3 hours ago, Thurman#1 said: Yup, and I'd argue you should replace "decent" with "good." I wouldn't disagree. I think if he has another season like the last he'll start getting the wider recognition he deserves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustWinPlease Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 11 hours ago, 32ABBA said: I gotta look into the linemen coming out, but now that they have Diggs, I hope they use the 2nd on an O- lineman if a good prospect is there. Can never have too many. They already have a 2nd round lineman they can't figure out where to play. Lol. They need a pass-rusher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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