MAJBobby Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 (edited) Waiting on the Punt Return Chart I expect to to be even better Edited January 15, 2020 by MAJBobby 2 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackFlutie Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 So... good things? He's brought good things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jobot Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 2 minutes ago, BringBackFlutie said: So... good things? He's brought good things. I think so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackFlutie Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 1 minute ago, Jobot said: I think so? I think it means that we had a very high average return yardage number, and that number looks even better when you look at the first diagram. That diagram says that Roberts was really smart about identifying returnable kicks, and maximizing them when he decided to return them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBillsFan Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 NO ONE I mean NO ONE signals fair catch better than he has. All-pro in fact. 4 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Joshin' Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 Why are we using data when the eyeball test clearly show the Bills are terrible? Good find, thanks. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted January 15, 2020 Author Share Posted January 15, 2020 5 minutes ago, Buffalo619 said: His return does not equal the investment... yeah that Huge 1.5M investment. That is cap dust. 8 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capco Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 All 3 phases need to perform at a high level. He does his part on Special Teams. It would be nice if he could be a part of the passing game but that's not necessary to be a contributor to W's. I mean how many balls has Matthew Slater caught from Tom Brady in his career? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackFlutie Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 6 minutes ago, Buffalo619 said: His return does not equal the investment... I'm impressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chongli Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Capco said: All 3 phases need to perform at a high level. He does his part on Special Teams. It would be nice if he could be a part of the passing game but that's not necessary to be a contributor to W's. I mean how many balls has Matthew Slater caught from Tom Brady in his career? Or Steve Tasker from Jim Kelly, for that matter. Edited January 15, 2020 by chongli Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianthomas Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 (edited) For those who were wondering, the Bills had the 9th best average offensive starting position in the league. Here is the data in case you're curious. Whether that warrants holding a roster spot for someone like Roberts, that'll be up for debate. But i do appreciate how he was dependable not to turn the ball over. Edited January 15, 2020 by brianthomas 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsMafi$ Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 soooo the Bills averaged about 3 yards more than the 25 yard line (what a touchback gives you) on kickoff returns (so the 28 yard line) With 1 return all year going into the opponent's territory so I don’t really think Roberts is someone this team really needs and we can fill the roster else where with someone else 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gambit Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 1 minute ago, BillsMafi$ said: soooo the Bills averaged about 3 yards more than the 25 yard line (what a touchback gives you) on kickoff returns (so the 28 yard line) With 1 return all year going into the opponent's territory so I don’t really think Roberts is someone this team really needs and we can fill the roster else where with someone else I feel like people like you are missing out on the most important thing he does. He always catches the damn ball. How many times in the past have we had people drop the ball on returns, especially Punts? Yet with Roberts I'm always calm cause I have zero doubt he will catch it. To top it off he has a solid avg. Why make a hole we do not need? 23 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capco Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 3 minutes ago, BillsMafi$ said: soooo the Bills averaged about 3 yards more than the 25 yard line (what a touchback gives you) on kickoff returns (so the 28 yard line) With 1 return all year going into the opponent's territory so I don’t really think Roberts is someone this team really needs and we can fill the roster else where with someone else It's not just about yards though. Kickoffs can help shift momentum, even if it's just a return from the end zone to the 28 yard line. Never underestimate what a little juice can do for athletes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCOrange Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 (edited) The great thing about this is it proves everybody right. The people arguing Roberts is good and the people arguing that using a roster spot on a pure kick/punt returner is a waste can both use this as justification. Edited January 15, 2020 by DCOrange 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPS Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 5 minutes ago, BillsMafi$ said: soooo the Bills averaged about 3 yards more than the 25 yard line (what a touchback gives you) on kickoff returns (so the 28 yard line) With 1 return all year going into the opponent's territory so I don’t really think Roberts is someone this team really needs and we can fill the roster else where with someone else It looks like Denver's KO return man was the top returner. He was very discerning about when to return (about 27% of returnable kicks), and when he did, he average almost 5 yards past the 25. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackFlutie Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 1 minute ago, Buffalo619 said: And easy to please... I don't think anyone else even noticed, to be honest. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putin Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 19 minutes ago, BringBackFlutie said: I think it means that we had a very high average return yardage number, and that number looks even better when you look at the first diagram. That diagram says that Roberts was really smart about identifying returnable kicks, and maximizing them when he decided to return them. Let’s not forget the importance of the sure hands , KC vs Texans is a good example what can happen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackFlutie Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 Just now, Putin said: Let’s not forget the importance of the sure hands , KC vs Texans is a good example what can happen Didn't we lose a few games in 2018, based on ST ball security, alone? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putin Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 1 minute ago, BringBackFlutie said: Didn't we lose a few games in 2018, based on ST ball security, alone? I can’t remember right now if it cost us a game , but thank God when he’s back there we basically don’t have to hold our breath 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiotAct Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 6 minutes ago, Buffalo619 said: They may need to take out a loan from such a huge investment. I mean, I definitely would if I was on the hook for paying Roberts’ salary! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Fischer Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 After the Chiefs - Texans game we should never again debate the value of Andre Roberts. Andre is extremely reliable and those stats just add cream to the top. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eSJayDee Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 Somewhat (pleasantly) surprised. My feeling is that many times he would have been better off downing more & taking the 25. I'll also interject that the graph would be better served if the Y axis were reversed (say %age not returned). Then it would essentially be an efficient frontier thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billykay Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 5 minutes ago, Max Fischer said: After the Chiefs - Texans game we should never again debate the value of Andre Roberts. Andre is extremely reliable and those stats just add cream to the top. Roberts is a good returner - no question. I think the problem some people have is that he has a roster spot that could be used for someone else. Imo, he does his job, is reliable & hopefully every now & then will bust a long one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billl Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 12 minutes ago, TPS said: It looks like Denver's KO return man was the top returner. He was very discerning about when to return (about 27% of returnable kicks), and when he did, he average almost 5 yards past the 25. The Bengals had the best returner according to the chart. Denver's stats are inflated by cherry picking the times he returned it. Cincinnati averaged about half a yard fewer but had twice as many returns. Every one that didn't get returned started at the 25. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Fischer Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 1 minute ago, billykay said: Roberts is a good returner - no question. I think the problem some people have is that he has a roster spot that could be used for someone else. Imo, he does his job, is reliable & hopefully every now & then will bust a long one. Should be easier to accept if fans think of Roberts as a specialist: Long snapper, kicker, punter, etc. We don't expect Ferguson to be a center, he's the long snapper. I'll never understand why reliable returners are so undervalued when each week is littered with losses due to poor special teams. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Romes Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 Not having heart palpitations every time your KR fields a kick is a huge plus 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 Not sure why people were down on Roberts. He was brought in for a specific position. His "WR" role should never have been brought into the conversation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCOrange Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Max Fischer said: Should be easier to accept if fans think of Roberts as a specialist: Long snapper, kicker, punter, etc. We don't expect Ferguson to be a center, he's the long snapper. I'll never understand why reliable returners are so undervalued when each week is littered with losses due to poor special teams. I think that's really the point though; being against the idea of having unnecessary specialists. No doubt Roberts is a good returner, but we have a roster that literally had 2 or maybe 3 useful WRs and part of that is because we had to use a roster spot on a guy that basically gave us a couple extra yards the couple times per game he touched the ball. It's just not a good use of limited resources in my opinion. Obviously to that same point, we had 5 or 6 WRs on the roster and only a couple of them could really do anything, so there's just as good a chance that the guy we replace Roberts with would have been relatively useless too, but I'd rather just have the extra roster spot personally. Edited January 15, 2020 by DCOrange Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 (edited) Interesting. Isn’t the right question How his ~3 yards average contribution on half the drives starting after kick offs, which with this defense I’m guessing is like, ~1 yard per drive on average contribution, more valuable than a legitimate WR(and average KR or guy already on roster elsewhere) that might Contribute more average yards per drive, just less from kickoffs? wow that’s confusing... you know what I mean Edited January 15, 2020 by Over 29 years of fanhood 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 37 minutes ago, Just Joshin' said: Why are we using data when the eyeball test clearly show the Bills are terrible? Good find, thanks. you clearly don’t know anything about analytics. The NY Giants crackpot analytics team actually agrees with our signing, and that says a lot: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 Just now, ScottLaw said: Just hope next year they have 5 good options ahead of Roberts because he's useless as a reciever. He was never meant to be a regular receiver. Look at his career stats. The only reason he was thrust into the role was due to failures by Zay and Foster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formerly Allan in MD Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 He played like he did for the Redskins; nothing special. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JESSEFEFFER Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 There were some days at New Era where punt catching was obviously a difficult thing. He made it look easy. i don't know what that chart shows but Andre handled most all the tough balls in bad weather and without much space so easily that it's easy to dismiss his contribution. But someone in that job who can't handle tough circumstances and we would all notice the muffs and/or balls that are not caught and are allowed to bounce and roll for 10 or 15 more yards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Fischer Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 3 minutes ago, DCOrange said: I think that's really the point though; being against the idea of having unnecessary specialists. No doubt Roberts is a good returner, but we have a roster that literally had 2 or maybe 3 useful WRs and part of that is because we had to use a roster spot on a guy that basically gave us a couple extra yards the couple times per game he touched the ball. It's just not a good use of limited resources in my opinion. Obviously to that same point, we had 5 or 6 WRs on the roster and only a couple of them could really do anything, so there's just as good a chance that the guy we replace Roberts with would have been relatively useless too, but I'd rather just have the extra roster spot personally. For me (and suspect the Bills staff) looks at the current roster like this: Roberts/Extremely Reliable Returner>>>>>>>>>>>>>>WR5 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>WR6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17islongenough Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 2 minutes ago, Max Fischer said: For me (and suspect the Bills staff) looks at the current roster like this: Roberts/Extremely Reliable Returner>>>>>>>>>>>>>>WR5 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>WR6 What would another WR have done? They had Foster who did nothing all year. The WR6 would most likely have been on the bench. At least they get something out of Roberts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruiserplayer Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 #3 in aggressiveness and #3 in effectiveness with zero turnovers is as solid as you can get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 (edited) 10 minutes ago, JESSEFEFFER said: There were some days at New Era where punt catching was obviously a difficult thing. He made it look easy. i don't know what that chart shows but Andre handled most all the tough balls in bad weather and without much space so easily that it's easy to dismiss his contribution. But someone in that job who can't handle tough circumstances and we would all notice the muffs and/or balls that are not caught and are allowed to bounce and roll for 10 or 15 more yards. Hyde is a great punt catcher.... also only KR for TD Edited January 15, 2020 by Over 29 years of fanhood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Fischer Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 2 minutes ago, 17islongenough said: What would another WR have done? They had Foster who did nothing all year. The WR6 would most likely have been on the bench. At least they get something out of Roberts. Uh, that post means we agree. 4 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: Hyde is a great punt catcher Agree, he's excellent but glad Hyde no longer has that injury risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17islongenough Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 6 minutes ago, Max Fischer said: Uh, that post means we agree. Agree, he's excellent but glad Hyde no longer has that injury risk. Correct, just chose yours to quote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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