NFL Black Monday - Coaching Changes

[LSHMEAB]

8 hours ago, Sunshower said:

The defense has gotten much much better but the offense hasn’t been as good. Seems like every play is a Hail Mary. Rodgers is still elite but doesn’t seem like he’s making the plays he used to.

Defense.

Rodgers threw for 4000 yards with a YPA of 7.6. Threw 26 TD's to FOUR picks. All this with a subpar supporting cast. I'm genuinely perplexed by your take, but I'm hopeful the Bills have this type of "problem" within the next few seasons.

[MiltonWaddams]

1 hour ago, LSHMEAB said:

Rodgers threw for 4000 yards with a YPA of 7.6. Threw 26 TD's to FOUR picks. All this with a subpar supporting cast. I'm genuinely perplexed by your take, but I'm hopeful the Bills have this type of "problem" within the next few seasons.

I watched 5 full GB games this season. Those stats aren’t telling the full story. Absolutely a great QB, but not the perennial MVP candidate we once saw. 

[GunnerBill]

15 hours ago, MiltonWaddams said:

Less about record and more about Rodgers. He was really out of sorts this year. Missing throws that were second nature to him in years prior. Maybe age has caught up with him, but that offense should have been blowing people out if he was hitting his WRs with consistency.

 

It is undeniable that Rodgers has been worse than he looked with McCarthy. This is Matt LeFleur, Shanahan tree, stress the defense with the zone stretch run game and come back with the play action. Aaron Jones and not Aaron Rodgers has been the engine of the Green Bay offense this year. When teams have successfully stopped the run they have really not been all that productive. 

6 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:

Rodgers threw for 4000 yards with a YPA of 7.6. Threw 26 TD's to FOUR picks. All this with a subpar supporting cast. I'm genuinely perplexed by your take, but I'm hopeful the Bills have this type of "problem" within the next few seasons.

 

Is it a subpar supporting cast? Excellent running back (and a good change of pace #2), good line, a true #1 receiver (I know he has been hurt some). Yes the rest of his weapons are young and have made some rookie mistakes but I don't think it has been a bad supporting cast. 

 

Rodgers hasn't been bad. But he has been less of the engine of the offense. They probably needed that. McCarthy's team was maybe too Rodgers centric... but after all his moaning about needing a coach who would give him more control they hired one who is asking him to actually do a little less. 

[SirAndrew]

18 hours ago, MiltonWaddams said:

Less about record and more about Rodgers. He was really out of sorts this year. Missing throws that were second nature to him in years prior. Maybe age has caught up with him, but that offense should have been blowing people out if he was hitting his WRs with consistency.

I think guys like Brady and Brees set an unrealistic precedent that QB’s can all excel in their late 30’s. There’s a legitimate chance that Rodgers is somewhat on the decline, and many more QB’s will continue do the same in their mid 30’s. 

[MAJBobby]

 

[ALF]

Browns need a HC who can handle strong headed players like Baker and OBJ .  They should get a GM first ,  I would find the best scouts to interview for GM . 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

26 minutes ago, ALF said:

Browns need a HC who can handle strong headed players like Baker and OBJ .  They should get a GM first ,  I would find the best scouts to interview for GM . 

 

...seriously?....Browns need somebody or anybody ready to handle Rebate Jimmy....he is Lake Erie's Boy Danny Snyder.......hell, I'd throw my hat into the ring...five year deal, fired after two and three years paid vacation...just left him a voice mail at Flying J...will report back shortly........

[Floydboy12]

Browns need to find the best deal they can for OBJ. Nearly impossible to win with a distraction like him on team. Add picks to shore up both lines. I'd say the same about Mayfield but it's hard to give up on what you thought was the franchise QB. Also may be a good idea to hire coach first and then find a gm he wants to work with aka the Bills. 

Edited January 1, 2020 by Floydboy12

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

10 minutes ago, Floydboy12 said:

Browns need to find the best deal they can for OBJ. Nearly impossible to win with a distraction like him on team. Add picks to shore up both lines. I'd say the same about Mayfield but it's hard to give up on what you thought was the franchise QB. Also may be a good idea to hire coach first and then find a gm he wants to work with aka the Bills. 

 

 

...Dr Ruth...problem solved..............

[MiltonWaddams]

7 minutes ago, Floydboy12 said:

Browns need to find the best deal they can for OBJ. Nearly impossible to win with a distraction like him on team. Add picks to shore up both lines. I'd say the same about Mayfield but it's hard to give up on what you thought was the franchise QB. Also may be a good idea to hire coach first and then find a gm he wants to work with aka the Bills. 

I think there would be a lineup 30 teams long if they made him available. He’s only a distraction when the team is losing. He was a luxury on a rebuilding Giants team and a scapegoat for the Browns inadequacies this season. He’s undoubtedly a diva, but he’s a superstar and those talents rarely aren’t. 

[BillsFan4]

1 hour ago, MAJBobby said:

 

When did Rivera start calling plays in Carolina? I know McDermott called the defense his entire 6 years there, and Steve Wilks called the defense in his 1 year as DC after Mcdermott left. Maybe he starting calling the games after Wilks left? 

 

Edit - answered my own question -

 

https://catcrave.com/2018/12/04/carolina-panthers-ron-rivera-defensive-play-call/

 

He took over (from rookie play caller Eric Washington) 1/2 way through a December 2018 game. Rivera only called the defense for 1 & 1/2 of his 9 years in Carolina, so him having a traditional DC is actually the norm. 

[Mr. WEO]

5 hours ago, ALF said:

Browns need a HC who can handle strong headed players like Baker and OBJ .  They should get a GM first ,  I would find the best scouts to interview for GM . 

 

 

A scout becoming a GM?  Hmmm....what could go wrong?

[ColoradoBills]

16 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

A scout becoming a GM?  Hmmm....what could go wrong?

 

They could also try a marketing guy.

[Mr. WEO]

1 minute ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

They could also try a marketing guy.

 

 

Or the team lawyer!

[ColoradoBills]

1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Or the team lawyer!

 

It's sad we have so many comebacks.

Glad things are looking better!

[LSHMEAB]

15 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

It is undeniable that Rodgers has been worse than he looked with McCarthy. This is Matt LeFleur, Shanahan tree, stress the defense with the zone stretch run game and come back with the play action. Aaron Jones and not Aaron Rodgers has been the engine of the Green Bay offense this year. When teams have successfully stopped the run they have really not been all that productive. 

 

Is it a subpar supporting cast? Excellent running back (and a good change of pace #2), good line, a true #1 receiver (I know he has been hurt some). Yes the rest of his weapons are young and have made some rookie mistakes but I don't think it has been a bad supporting cast. 

 

Rodgers hasn't been bad. But he has been less of the engine of the offense. They probably needed that. McCarthy's team was maybe too Rodgers centric... but after all his moaning about needing a coach who would give him more control they hired one who is asking him to actually do a little less. 

I consider the supporting cast to be mediocre, but that's splitting hairs. Definitely a better run game than they've had.

 

If you want to step away from statistics, (which are still quite strong), what I see when I watch Rodgers is a guy taking fewer chances than past seasons because he "trusts" his defense. 

 

Impossible to say what's going on in someone's head, but that's how it appears. I've seen him give up on plays, throw the ball away, etc. with greater frequency. That much is true. But I don't think he's in some steep decline. I think he knows he doesn't have to play hero ball week in and week out. 

Edited January 2, 2020 by LSHMEAB

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

I consider the supporting cast to be mediocre, but that's splitting hairs. Definitely a better run game than they've had.

 

If you want to step away from statistics, (which are still quite strong), what I see when I watch Rodgers is a guy taking fewer chances than past seasons because he "trusts" his defense. 

 

Impossible to say what's going on in someone's head, but that's how it appears. I've seen him give up on plays, throw the ball away, etc. with greater frequency. That much is true. But I don't think he's in decline. I think he knows he doesn't have to play hero ball week in and week out. 

 

I am not arguing it really equates to decline either. I think it is an offense that doesn't require him to display his personal talents as much as play within the scheme. I would say however that Rodgers is on the down slope. His is still at the top of that slope but I think peak Rodgers has passed. 

[LSHMEAB]

6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I am not arguing it really equates to decline either. I think it is an offense that doesn't require him to display his personal talents as much as play within the scheme. I would say however that Rodgers is on the down slope. His is still at the top of that slope but I think peak Rodgers has passed. 

Quite possible. The guy is 36 and he's had a number of injuries. He's distinct from a Brees or a Brady, who rely far less on arm strength/athleticism, which is probably why they've lasted as long as they have. Brees has had the injuries, but again, much more reliant on the cerebral aspect of the game. Brady is just a freak who's gotten hurt once over 10 years ago and certainly doesn't rely on natural talent the same way an Aaron Rodgers does.

 

And I would say (sort of agree) that while he may very well be declining, he's at the early stages and still a premiere QB. 

Edited January 2, 2020 by LSHMEAB

[Chaos]

8 hours ago, Floydboy12 said:

Browns need to find the best deal they can for OBJ. Nearly impossible to win with a distraction like him on team. Add picks to shore up both lines. I'd say the same about Mayfield but it's hard to give up on what you thought was the franchise QB. Also may be a good idea to hire coach first and then find a gm he wants to work with aka the Bills. 

Clearly the first step the Browns need to take, is to visit Two Bills Drive and find out what a random bunch of Bills fans think they should do.  Once they get that insight, things should flow smoothly from there. 

[stevewin]

3 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

They could also try a marketing guy.

[MiltonWaddams]

17 minutes ago, Chaos said:

Clearly the first step the Browns need to take, is to visit Two Bills Drive and find out what a random bunch of Bills fans think they should do.  Once they get that insight, things should flow smoothly from there. 

Where I find offence is in the word “random”. We are the most educated and experienced group of fans known to the internet. So far from “random”.

[wppete]

1 hour ago, stevewin said:

What a disgrace that guy was. 

[Floydboy12]

1 hour ago, Chaos said:

Clearly the first step the Browns need to take, is to visit Two Bills Drive and find out what a random bunch of Bills fans think they should do.  Once they get that insight, things should flow smoothly from there. 

 

Could it really be worse than their results since the franchise returned to Cleveland? 

[EasternOHBillsFan]

Maybe the Browns could hire this "genius"... he fits right in.

 

[Doc Brown]

11 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

 

I was wondering what Kevin O'Connell was up to after he got booted as the channel 2 weatherman.

 

45 minutes ago, wppete said:

What a disgrace that guy was. 

The franchise is still here when we could've lost it in '98 and '14.  He was at least decent at selling hope.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

I think Doug might be feeling a little sense of urgency  

 

 

 

 

 

[first_and_ten]

15 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

I think Doug might be feeling a little sense of urgency  

 

 

 

 

 

 

Whose not sooooooo glad this idiot jumped ship? Imagine where we would be if he had stayed.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

1 minute ago, first_and_ten said:

 

Whose not sooooooo glad this idiot jumped ship? Imagine where we would be if he had stayed.

 

 

Right i was pissed at the time but we couldn't have it any better right now.

 

 

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, first_and_ten said:

 

Whose not sooooooo glad this idiot jumped ship? Imagine where we would be if he had stayed.

 

I think we might have made the playoffs two years earlier although the caveat to that is I have no idea who the QB was going to be. But he had that team bought in, playing hard and competing every week. And there was talent there. Rex on the other hand was a clown show. But McDermott is the right guy for this team and maybe if Doug stayed he never arrives and well.... I'm not a big believer in fate but who knows?

[4merper4mer]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think we might have made the playoffs two years earlier although the caveat to that is I have no idea who the QB was going to be. But he had that team bought in, playing hard and competing every week. And there was talent there. Rex on the other hand was a clown show. But McDermott is the right guy for this team and maybe if Doug stayed he never arrives and well.... I'm not a big believer in fate but who knows?

Marrone's offense was atrocious, he wanted all the power and was constantly getting into beefs.  Rex was a bad choice but Marrone was going nowhere which is exactly where he is going in Jax.

[GunnerBill]

54 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

Marrone's offense was atrocious, he wanted all the power and was constantly getting into beefs.  Rex was a bad choice but Marrone was going nowhere which is exactly where he is going in Jax.

 

But he did go to an AFCCG. Marrone is an arse and we are better off without him. But do I think he'd have done a better job in 2015 and 2016 than Rex Ryan? 100% without any single doubt. And that 2015 roster was properly talented and held back by atrocious coaching.

[4merper4mer]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

But he did go to an AFCCG. Marrone is an arse and we are better off without him. But do I think he'd have done a better job in 2015 and 2016 than Rex Ryan? 100% without any single doubt. And that 2015 roster was properly talented and held back by atrocious coaching.

I'm not saying Rex did a better job than anyone else could have done.  He tore down what what a terrific defense.  The offense did improve a bit.

 

I'm saying Marrone was done here.  There were many bridges burned and he was past his peak.  He made a power play and lost.  I agree we made a mistake hiring Rex, although I admit at the time I liked it, but Marrone staying would have been bad too.

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

I'm not saying Rex did a better job than anyone else could have done.  He tore down what what a terrific defense.  The offense did improve a bit.

 

I'm saying Marrone was done here.  There were many bridges burned and he was past his peak.  He made a power play and lost.  I agree we made a mistake hiring Rex, although I admit at the time I liked it, but Marrone staying would have been bad too.

 

Ultimately we will never know. But I think Marrone would have done okay for a couple more years. Certainly better than Rex did and that 2015 team had playoff level talent. I knew Rex was a mistake the moment we hired him. 

[Nanker]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Ultimately we will never know. But I think Marrone would have done okay for a couple more years. Certainly better than Rex did and that 2015 team had playoff level talent. I knew Rex was a mistake the moment we hired him. 

And that was confirmed to all when he proudly showed up sporting his specially painted truck in The Bills colors... with the logo facing BACKWARDS!

 

[ALF]

16 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

A scout becoming a GM?  Hmmm....what could go wrong?

 

Yep Whaley was a mistake , he  worked for the Steelers as a pro personnel coordinator. I want the best college scout in the NFL. To pry him away from another team takes a job advancement and  big pay raise. Then have a real executive actually have the duties of GM.    jmo

[GunnerBill]

6 minutes ago, ALF said:

 

Yep Whaley was a mistake , he  worked for the Steelers as a pro personnel coordinator. I want the best college scout in the NFL. To pry him away from another team takes a job advancement and  big pay raise. Then have a real executive actually have the duties of GM.    jmo

 

Teams are not required to release a scout for an interview if he does not have actual personnel control. You can't just hire a scout away from another team by giving him the GM title and then get someone else to do the job. 

[Mr. WEO]

21 minutes ago, ALF said:

 

Yep Whaley was a mistake , he  worked for the Steelers as a pro personnel coordinator. I want the best college scout in the NFL. To pry him away from another team takes a job advancement and  big pay raise. Then have a real executive actually have the duties of GM.    jmo

 

 

It was a mistake repeated twice in a row by the Bills

[ALF]

23 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

It was a mistake repeated twice in a row by the Bills

 

I was thinking more about Bill Polian's roots

[YoloinOhio]

 

[Gugny]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Ultimately we will never know. But I think Marrone would have done okay for a couple more years. Certainly better than Rex did and that 2015 team had playoff level talent. I knew Rex was a mistake the moment we hired him. 

 

I have always thought that the Marrone/Whaley Bills were a QB away from being a powerhouse.