NFL Black Monday - Coaching Changes

[Reed83HOF]

 

 

[PetermansRedemption]

20 minutes ago, blacklabel said:

I know I heard that Cleveland wants an "exceptional leader" at the HC spot. I don't think that's McDaniels. The crap I read about him during his time in Denver was lame. Something about Belichick's assistants who get HC jobs and think they can run the show just like Belichick does. McDaniels had a reputation for alienating people with the way he handled things. So... on second thought, go ahead Cleveland, hire that butt-munch.

Let’s not forget the way he screwed the Colts too. Definitely says something of his personality. 

[blacklabel]

5 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

 I agree only one that’s sort of worked out is O’Brien and Flores also looks like a damn good coach. 

 

Yeah, going all the way back to like, Mangini, none of his assistants have really flourished as an HC. O'Brien, yeah, but his personnel decisions this season are gonna have a real negative impact on their future. Flores looks like he has the team buying in. Patricia will probably get another year due to Stafford being out since like week five or whatever, but yeah, for the most part, his assistants don't do much if they get a shot at being a HC.

5 minutes ago, PetermansRedemption said:

Let’s not forget the way he screwed the Colts too. Definitely says something of his personality. 

 

Yup. I really thought that would sour other teams on wanting to bring him in but I suppose we don't know the whole story. I assume he probably texted them and said, "Nah, I'm good" because he seems like just the kind of dingleberry to do that, but maybe it was more amicable than that. Indy made out better with Reich anyway.

[Reed83HOF]

 

 

 

[Reed83HOF]

 

[Gugny]

13 minutes ago, PetermansRedemption said:

Let’s not forget the way he screwed the Colts too. Definitely says something of his personality. 

 

I think it was dooshy, but I also don't blame him.  He went from agreeing to take over a team with Andrew Luck at QB to taking the same team with Jacoby Brissett (or anyone else not named Andrew Luck).

 

I can't say I blame him for running away.

[Reed83HOF]

 

[MJS]

And why are the New York Giants considered one of the top coaching jobs? Seems like they suck to me.

[eball]

Sounds like Snyder still wants to pull the strings in Washington (insisting on Haskins as the QB) -- I know there are only 32 of these jobs but man, I'd be wary of walking into that situation.

[dave mcbride]

5 minutes ago, MJS said:

And why are the New York Giants considered one of the top coaching jobs? Seems like they suck to me.

They have good, stable ownership, have won a SB in every decade going back to the 1980s, are one of the great franchises in league history ... the list goes on. 

Edited December 30, 2019 by dave mcbride

[LeviF]

4 minutes ago, MJS said:

And why are the New York Giants considered one of the top coaching jobs? Seems like they suck to me.

 

Young QB who's shown flashes, generational talent at RB, decent ownership, kingmaking kind of franchise.  If you're successful there they love you forever.

[Reed83HOF]

 

[MJS]

3 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

They have good, stable ownership, have won a SB in every decade going back to the 1980s, are one of the great franchises in league history ... the list goes on. 

Blah blah. They have history. Pretty sure the present should be the most important thing to a coach.

 

They suck now. Plain and simple.

4 minutes ago, LeviF91 said:

 

Young QB who's shown flashes, generational talent at RB, decent ownership, kingmaking kind of franchise.  If you're successful there they love you forever.

Pretty sure if you are successful anywhere they love you forever. Go win a Superbowl with any of the 32 franchises and you are automatically an elite coach.

[Rc2catch]

1 minute ago, MJS said:

Blah blah. They have history. Pretty sure the present should be the most important thing to a coach.

 

They suck now. Plain and simple.

It’s an attractive job. But a difficult one. 
Any coach stepping into a team with a promising rookie quarterback and a second year beast like Barkley it looks promising to add pieces to. Issue is Gettleman at GM and a very poor defense. But quarterback and running back are two solid foundation building pieces if a coach is sold Jones is the real deal. 

[Philly McButterpants]

9 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

They have good, stable ownership, have won a SB in every decade going back to the 1980s, are one of the great franchises in league history ... the list goes on. 

Aside from stable ownership, you could say the same for the redskins . . . 

[yungmack]

If Gettleman is staying in New York, why isn't Rivera a candidate for that job? And why on God's good earth is Rivera apparently so anxious to go to work for Snyder of all people? 

[billsfan89]

17 hours ago, Happy Gilmore said:

Cleveland - Kitchens returns; it has only been a year

Jax - Doug is gone, how could he not be after firing the President of Operations.  New guy will want to bring in his own coach and GM.

NYG -  Shurmur is gone, the Mara's have seen enough

Dallas - Garret is gone

Washington - Doesn't matter, Snyder needs to be gone for them to win

Pittsburgh - Tomlin is fired.  He's not the guy for the team after Big Ben; Tomlin is in way over his head right now.

 

Tomlin worked miracles to get that team to 8 wins and in contention for a playoff spot. They were on their 3rd string QB and had many major injuries elsewhere on their offense. They have successfully rebuilt their defense to be one of the top 5 in the league (with many young pieces in place) and they have some pieces in place on offense (good QB in Big Ben if healthy, Connor and Ju Ju at the skill positions and a good O-line.) Granted the Steelers are not in a good position cap space wise and they don't have their top draft pick. But Tomlin should be safe no matter what happen there. 

[Reed83HOF]

 

[MJS]

1 minute ago, Rc2catch said:

It’s an attractive job. But a difficult one. 
Any coach stepping into a team with a promising rookie quarterback and a second year beast like Barkley it looks promising to add pieces to. Issue is Gettleman at GM and a very poor defense. But quarterback and running back are two solid foundation building pieces if a coach is sold Jones is the real deal. 

Nothing is certain at QB for them. He could easily struggle in the future. Hest had plenty of struggles this year as well.

 

Barkley is great. It would suck to be paired with Gettleman. Seems like a below average opportunity to me. But I suppose any team that just fired their coach would not be a super great franchise.

[LeviF]

5 minutes ago, MJS said:

 

Pretty sure if you are successful anywhere they love you forever. Go win a Superbowl with any of the 32 franchises and you are automatically an elite coach.

 

aUtOmATicAlLy aN eLiTe cOAcH

 

[Rc2catch]

1 minute ago, yungmack said:

If Gettleman is staying in New York, why isn't Rivera a candidate for that job? And why on God's good earth is Rivera apparently so anxious to go to work for Snyder of all people? 

After the mess he caused in Carolina I could totally see why Rivera would want to avoid him. 
I do find it puzzling he’d consider Washington. Maybe a posturing move to get another team to come in with a crazy offer 

1 minute ago, MJS said:

Nothing is certain at QB for them. He could easily struggle in the future. Hest had plenty of struggles this year as well.

 

Barkley is great. It would suck to be paired with Gettleman. Seems like a below average opportunity to me. But I suppose any team that just fired their coach would not be a super great franchise.

Yeah I’m not sold on jones at all. But whatever coach takes the job will have to be sold on him. 

[wppete]

8 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

 

Probably the smartest thing they can do right now. Looks like Rivera is head to Washi from. 

[Gugny]

14 minutes ago, MJS said:

Blah blah. They have history. Pretty sure the present should be the most important thing to a coach.

 

They suck now. Plain and simple.

Pretty sure if you are successful anywhere they love you forever. Go win a Superbowl with any of the 32 franchises and you are automatically an elite coach.

 

They sucked this year because they are still missing some pieces and started a rookie QB.

 

As Levi and Dave stated, they have a generational RB, solid ownership and a built-in winning culture.  Those things, alone, make the Giants the most attractive landing spot for a HC, in my opinion.

 

Just look at the other teams with vacancies and ask yourself if they have all the things the Giants have.  They don't.

[dave mcbride]

10 minutes ago, MJS said:

Blah blah. They have history. Pretty sure the present should be the most important thing to a coach.

 

They suck now. Plain and simple.

Pretty sure if you are successful anywhere they love you forever. Go win a Superbowl with any of the 32 franchises and you are automatically an elite coach.

Quality of ownership is decisive in coaches' decision-making. It's why Belichick pulled out of the Jets job in 1999. The Giants have been down the last three seasons, but they have some pretty good young offensive talent on their roster (including the most talented RB in the league) and the fourth overall pick, which should allow them to land a blue-chip stud like Jeff Okudah and immediately address a glaring need at a prime position (CB). Jones played a LOT better than people expected too: 24 TDs/12 INTs in 12 games; a 61.9 percent completion rate, an 87.7 rating, and was on pace for 4,000+ yards prorated over 16 games. That's all very good for a rookie. He fumbled way too much, but he was a rookie and that's to be expected. 

[/dev/null]

13 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

 

Tomlin worked miracles to get that team to 8 wins and in contention for a playoff spot. They were on their 3rd string QB and had many major injuries elsewhere on their offense. They have successfully rebuilt their defense to be one of the top 5 in the league (with many young pieces in place) and they have some pieces in place on offense (good QB in Big Ben if healthy, Connor and Ju Ju at the skill positions and a good O-line.) Granted the Steelers are not in a good position cap space wise and they don't have their top draft pick. But Tomlin should be safe no matter what happen there. 

Actually they were on their 4th string UDFA camp arm.  The Steelers traded their 3rd string QB Josh Dobbs to Jacksonville after Foles was injured

[Mark Vader]

46 minutes ago, blacklabel said:

 

Yeah, going all the way back to like, Mangini, none of his assistants have really flourished as an HC. O'Brien, yeah, but his personnel decisions this season are gonna have a real negative impact on their future. Flores looks like he has the team buying in. Patricia will probably get another year due to Stafford being out since like week five or whatever, but yeah, for the most part, his assistants don't do much if they get a shot at being a HC.

I'll continue to say it....Once you lose the ability to cheat, you cannot be successful.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

16 minutes ago, yungmack said:

If Gettleman is staying in New York, why isn't Rivera a candidate for that job? And why on God's good earth is Rivera apparently so anxious to go to work for Snyder of all people? 

 

.....probably gets a five year deal......Boy Danny gets antsy after two and fires him...three years paid vacation....brilliant............

[billsfan89]

If I had to rank the desirability of the potential coach openings I would put them as such. 

 

1- New York Giants - 70 million in cap space (that could go up to 90 million easily), some talent in place, good ownership, big prestigious market, high end franchise, and the only negative is that Gettleman is the GM and possibly Daniel Jones at QB depending on your evaluation.

 

2- Dallas Cowboys - A talented roster with a good QB in place, they have a lot of cap space (85 million) but that is before resigning Dak and Cooper who could occupy a lot of that room, and certainly a prestigious franchise. The negatives are that the owner is notoriously not easy to work with and Dak might not be a top flight QB and you have to pony up 30 million or more for him. 

 

3- Panthers - Another roster with a solid amount of talent. Their cap situation is decent they have 20 million in cap space but they could go up to 60 million if Cam is traded and they make some other modest cuts. Their ownership is a little off but they tend to stay out of football ops and aren't cheap. The negatives are what to do with Cam, the market isn't that desirable, a so-so cap situation, and the ownership can be a little off.

 

4- Cleveland Browns - Another roster with a lot of on paper talent. They have a young QB any offensive mind would like, a great array of skill position talent (among the best in the league) and major pieces in place on defense. They have a fairly good cap situation at 50 plus million in space with up to 70 million if they make some easy cuts. The Browns ownership is decent, they spend money and stay out of things but they can't seem to get anything going for some reason. The negatives are the teams reputations and recent lack of success, the team also has a lot of personalities to manage which is a headache for a lot of coaches. But this job holds some appeal as the roster is good and they have flexibility to improve it rather easily. The Browns won’t attract a top candidate but it isn’t the bottom of the barrel. They need to find someone who can manage the personalities which will be hard. 

 

5- Jacksonville Jaguars – This roster is far less talented and they have a bad cap situation (assuming they don’t pick up Dareus’s option they have about 20 million in space with only about 30-40 if they make some cuts.) The ownership isn’t afraid to spend and stays out of things but they aren’t a prime time market and the team could very well be in flux. They do have 2 Rams first rounds picks coming up which is a huge plus. They don’t have a good QB situation as I think Foles only works in Philly. This job is likely going to attract second tier retreads or an up and coming coach. If the Jags were smart they would follow in the McD mold and hire an up and coming executive and coordinator to execute a 2 year rebuild using the Rams picks and the draft to rebuild a roster in the short term and build to cap flexibility in the long term. 

 

6- Redskins – Not a very talented team, not the best QB situation, a franchise that has fallen from grace, and a toxic owner. The only positives is that Snyder will spend money and they have a good cap situation. But other than that it is a turd of a situation. I know Rivera is taking this job but this is a situation that I don’t think many can have success in. This is the Knicks head coaching job of the NFL. You take this simply to get money. 

 

That’s the way I see the head coaching situations playing out. I can’t see any other situations opening up for the most part. With the exception of the Skins and Jags these are some pretty decent situations for coaches. Each of them has flaws but those top 4 jobs all come with significant positives. 

[whatdrought]

2 hours ago, MR8 said:

 

The Bills, Jets, and Miami have had TONS of coaching turn over int he past 2 decades... why is it surprising?  Rex was fired by the Jets and hired by the Bills in the same year... then Gase was fired by the Fins and hired by the Jests in the same year... 

 

The real question is how does that happen twice in 1 division that a team fires a guy and a team in the same division jumps to hire him? 

 

Thank GOD it looks like we got it right and we'll have our GM and HC for the long haul... now I'm just waiting for the Pats to turn over the QB and HC jobs... 

 

Its true. Just not sure if I remember complete (or almost) turnover in a division like that? 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

55 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

I think it was dooshy, but I also don't blame him.  He went from agreeing to take over a team with Andrew Luck at QB to taking the same team with Jacoby Brissett (or anyone else not named Andrew Luck).

 

I can't say I blame him for running away.

I thought he bailed before the Luck decision was ever made.  
 

[LeviF]

7 minutes ago, SlimShady'sGhost said:

I thought he bailed before the Luck decision was ever made.  
 

 

Yeah, like a year and a half earlier.

[Gugny]

9 minutes ago, SlimShady'sGhost said:

I thought he bailed before the Luck decision was ever made.  
 

 

He did.  I stand corrected.

[wppete]

56 minutes ago, yungmack said:

If Gettleman is staying in New York, why isn't Rivera a candidate for that job? And why on God's good earth is Rivera apparently so anxious to go to work for Snyder of all people? 

because Snyder probably made him one of the highest paid coaches in history. 

[wppete]

 

[CLTbills]

1 hour ago, yungmack said:

If Gettleman is staying in New York, why isn't Rivera a candidate for that job? And why on God's good earth is Rivera apparently so anxious to go to work for Snyder of all people? 

Could be that he's already worked with Gettleman and knows that that's NOT a situation he wants to be in.

[apuszczalowski]

2 minutes ago, wppete said:

 

Only 2 years where tehy did not make a HC change (2015 & 2017), Haslams HR department must love working overtime........

[wppete]

 

[apuszczalowski]

42 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

If I had to rank the desirability of the potential coach openings I would put them as such. 

 

1- New York Giants - 70 million in cap space (that could go up to 90 million easily), some talent in place, good ownership, big prestigious market, high end franchise, and the only negative is that Gettleman is the GM and possibly Daniel Jones at QB depending on your evaluation.

 

2- Dallas Cowboys - A talented roster with a good QB in place, they have a lot of cap space (85 million) but that is before resigning Dak and Cooper who could occupy a lot of that room, and certainly a prestigious franchise. The negatives are that the owner is notoriously not easy to work with and Dak might not be a top flight QB and you have to pony up 30 million or more for him. 

 

3- Panthers - Another roster with a solid amount of talent. Their cap situation is decent they have 20 million in cap space but they could go up to 60 million if Cam is traded and they make some other modest cuts. Their ownership is a little off but they tend to stay out of football ops and aren't cheap. The negatives are what to do with Cam, the market isn't that desirable, a so-so cap situation, and the ownership can be a little off.

 

4- Cleveland Browns - Another roster with a lot of on paper talent. They have a young QB any offensive mind would like, a great array of skill position talent (among the best in the league) and major pieces in place on defense. They have a fairly good cap situation at 50 plus million in space with up to 70 million if they make some easy cuts. The Browns ownership is decent, they spend money and stay out of things but they can't seem to get anything going for some reason. The negatives are the teams reputations and recent lack of success, the team also has a lot of personalities to manage which is a headache for a lot of coaches. But this job holds some appeal as the roster is good and they have flexibility to improve it rather easily. The Browns won’t attract a top candidate but it isn’t the bottom of the barrel. They need to find someone who can manage the personalities which will be hard. 

 

5- Jacksonville Jaguars – This roster is far less talented and they have a bad cap situation (assuming they don’t pick up Dareus’s option they have about 20 million in space with only about 30-40 if they make some cuts.) The ownership isn’t afraid to spend and stays out of things but they aren’t a prime time market and the team could very well be in flux. They do have 2 Rams first rounds picks coming up which is a huge plus. They don’t have a good QB situation as I think Foles only works in Philly. This job is likely going to attract second tier retreads or an up and coming coach. If the Jags were smart they would follow in the McD mold and hire an up and coming executive and coordinator to execute a 2 year rebuild using the Rams picks and the draft to rebuild a roster in the short term and build to cap flexibility in the long term. 

 

6- Redskins – Not a very talented team, not the best QB situation, a franchise that has fallen from grace, and a toxic owner. The only positives is that Snyder will spend money and they have a good cap situation. But other than that it is a turd of a situation. I know Rivera is taking this job but this is a situation that I don’t think many can have success in. This is the Knicks head coaching job of the NFL. You take this simply to get money. 

 

That’s the way I see the head coaching situations playing out. I can’t see any other situations opening up for the most part. With the exception of the Skins and Jags these are some pretty decent situations for coaches. Each of them has flaws but those top 4 jobs all come with significant positives. 

The Cowboys would be attractive because its one of the biggest franchise in the league, but you have an owner that is also the GM. He does seem to be loyal to his guys though. He doesn't usually make quick decisions to fire guys and lets them work things out. He gave Garrett alot of time as the HC to win there. But they have to decide if Dak is worth tying up alot of Cap in, or find someone else.

Carolina has an older, injured starter and no one else at QB, they have a few good pieces and might be able to turn things around fairly quickly, plus like I said above, the ownership seems to be loyal to their guys and aren't making quick decisions to fire guys.

The Browns franchise is a total dumpster fire and should be at the bottom of the list. They have a revolving door in their coaching and front office spots and a bunch of Diva 'stars' on the roster that will be a huge task to try and get them working together as a team.

The Jags have some talent in place but need a QB, the problem is if they have an ownership that can spend to get the talent and would you like to be relocated to London soon?

The Redskins have a young QB who could be talented enough to be good and talent in a bunch of areas, the owner will spend money, and as long as he has decided to let his front office guys make the decisions it could be a good place to land as a HC. I wouldn't say this is the worst place to end up

[WideNine]

1 hour ago, Gugny said:

 

I think it was dooshy, but I also don't blame him.  He went from agreeing to take over a team with Andrew Luck at QB to taking the same team with Jacoby Brissett (or anyone else not named Andrew Luck).

 

I can't say I blame him for running away.

 

Let us never forget the ultimate dooshbagery.

 

Bill Belichick resigning the Jets HC position the same day I think he was supposed to do a presser announcing his acceptance of the position and he wrote his resignation letter on a napkin - not sure if it was a used napkin or a nice clean one:) He then took the Patriots job instead and we know the rest.

 

[billsfan89]

15 minutes ago, apuszczalowski said:

The Cowboys would be attractive because its one of the biggest franchise in the league, but you have an owner that is also the GM. He does seem to be loyal to his guys though. He doesn't usually make quick decisions to fire guys and lets them work things out. He gave Garrett alot of time as the HC to win there. But they have to decide if Dak is worth tying up alot of Cap in, or find someone else.

Carolina has an older, injured starter and no one else at QB, they have a few good pieces and might be able to turn things around fairly quickly, plus like I said above, the ownership seems to be loyal to their guys and aren't making quick decisions to fire guys.

The Browns franchise is a total dumpster fire and should be at the bottom of the list. They have a revolving door in their coaching and front office spots and a bunch of Diva 'stars' on the roster that will be a huge task to try and get them working together as a team.

The Jags have some talent in place but need a QB, the problem is if they have an ownership that can spend to get the talent and would you like to be relocated to London soon?

The Redskins have a young QB who could be talented enough to be good and talent in a bunch of areas, the owner will spend money, and as long as he has decided to let his front office guys make the decisions it could be a good place to land as a HC. I wouldn't say this is the worst place to end up

 

The Browns have a young QB with a lot of potential, one of the best skill position corps in the league, and on defense they boast one of the best pass rushers and a shut down corner. They also have 50+ million in cap space and could have about 70 million with some doable cuts. I put them above the Jags because the Jags cap/roster and QB situation suck and they aren't that much less of a dumpster fire in recent history outside of 2017. The Browns are a team that you could see coming together talent wise if they get some help on the O-line and add some pieces to the defense all of which they could do. It is more so about managing the egos that could prove to be a headache. Out of the 6 openings I only put them ahead of the Jags and Redskins who aren't exactly good situations. 

 

The Redskins have a toxic environment one that I wouldn't go near since the owner is very meddling and has his goons always high up undermining the coaches and competent staff. Remember a few years ago when the Skins were doing decent with Cousins and they had a lot of great coordinators and seemed to be turning things around? Well Snyder's goons pulled a power play and ousted a lot of the people who were beginning to build up the roster post RGIII. I don't see it being that good of a situation for any coach due to the owner's meddling. They are the Knicks of the NFL. 

Edited December 30, 2019 by billsfan89