Why wasn't Duke Williams active?

[FireChans]

3 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

No one is saying give up.

 

But we need a reliable pass catcher THIS YEAR.

 

Duke was only targeted 8 times during the regular season but caught 7 of those passes. I believe he caught every target in the preseason.

 

The Bills and Josh Allen in particular need a reliable pass catcher like that in certain situations THIS YEAR!

 

This isn't a long term thing for Duke. Is there a big reliable pass catching WR in the draft? If there is and he's worthy of a 1st round pick I expect we target him in the draft and then Duke is likely not even on the roster next year...

 

BUT...

 

this team is playing for THIS year.

 

Activate Duke because he's the most surehanded guy we have on this team.

8 targets is an extremely small sample size. 

[boater]

I  didn't read all 7 pages of posts. But here's the answer if it hasn't been mentioned before:

 

Duke contributes Zero to special teams.

 

He's a good receiver worthy of a bubble roster spot ..IF.. he did something on special teams.

[Scott7975]

1 minute ago, boater said:

I  didn't read all 7 pages of posts. But here's the answer if it hasn't been mentioned before:

 

Duke contributes Zero to special teams.

 

He's a good receiver worthy of a bubble roster spot ..IF.. he did something on special teams.

McKenzie had 12 snap counts on ST's all year.  None in the last two games.  Duke in his limited action has 10. Some of the guys on special teams don't do jack.  Im sure Duke isn't that much worse.  Is Senorise Perry thaaaaaaat good on ST that Duke cant have a spot on offense instead?

[transplantbillsfan]

3 hours ago, fansince88 said:

Dont get me wrong. I am and have been on the Duuuuuuuuuke bandwagon since the summer. That said, this post seemed to be a Knox is no good post. Why they are not playing DW I dont know. 

No.

 

I’m very excited about Knox’s future, but right now he’s utterly unreliable when it comes to catching the football, and I believe these drops could also have a cumulative impact on Allen and his confidence.

 

Tony Gonzales had a real problem with drops at the beginning of his career by his own admission, but he fixed that with hard work and practice.

 

Knox could do the same, but we’re worrying about THIS YEAR.

[boater]

54 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

Some of the guys on special teams don't do jack

If that's the case.. fire McDermott. Though I believe your are wrong.

 

[ngbills]

How many of the thousands of NFL players go from undrafted to CFL to practice squad to underutilized by team to NFL star or even NFL contributor? Not many. Duke has more chance being out of the league next year than being a somebody the Bills regret not giving more of a chance. 

[Kirby Jackson]

4 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Or maybe he could help the offense for a play or to and make a difference.  How long did it take them to start using Singletary more?  Hell, I still sometimes think Daboll could use him more than he does.

 

Maybe, and I’m not opposed to dressing Duke. My point is that the people that see him every single day believe that this is what he is. That’s not a bad thing and he has a skill set but clearly his separation is a problem. They watch him and think “we are better off with McKenzie or Foster.” They are all kind of the same imo. Each guy has something that he offers but none of them are transforming the offense. Next year they will add a #1 type of guy that attracts coverage and then they will be a good group. Brown is an ideal 2 and Beasley is really tough in the slot. Foster has speed, Duke size and McKenzie is elusive. That feels like you are getting somewhere. 

[RocCityRoller]

1 hour ago, Scott7975 said:

McKenzie had 12 snap counts on ST's all year.  None in the last two games.  Duke in his limited action has 10. Some of the guys on special teams don't do jack.  Im sure Duke isn't that much worse.  Is Senorise Perry thaaaaaaat good on ST that Duke cant have a spot on offense instead?

 

McKenzie's play in the TN game won the game.

 

Short memories on TBD

 

Duke Williams adds some value, D Williams does not win or lose games.

 

Buffalo needs to learn how to make an effective offense against a blitz/ aggressive defense. Screens/ Draws etc kill those type of defenses.

Where was the shovel pass to McKenzie against Baltimore? Where was the draw play?

 

Philadelphia used screens and draws to take the aggressive nature of the Bills Def.

 

It's not rocket science.

 

[Livinginthepast]

1 minute ago, RocCityRoller said:

 

McKenzie's play in the TN game won the game.

 

Short memories on TBD

 

Duke Williams adds some value, D Williams does not win or lose games.

 

Buffalo needs to learn how to make an effective offense against a blitz/ aggressive defense. Screens/ Draws etc kill those type of defenses.

Where was the shovel pass to McKenzie against Baltimore? Where was the draw play?

 

Philadelphia used screens and draws to take the aggressive nature of the Bills Def.

 

It's not rocket science.

 

Umm Duke's TD catch vs TN WON THE GAME, literally.

[Scott7975]

1 hour ago, RocCityRoller said:

 

McKenzie's play in the TN game won the game.

 

Short memories on TBD

 

Duke Williams adds some value, D Williams does not win or lose games.

 

Buffalo needs to learn how to make an effective offense against a blitz/ aggressive defense. Screens/ Draws etc kill those type of defenses.

Where was the shovel pass to McKenzie against Baltimore? Where was the draw play?

 

Philadelphia used screens and draws to take the aggressive nature of the Bills Def.

 

It's not rocket science.

 

Um Duke had the game winning TD catch against TN. 
 

my point is if they aren’t going to use McKenzie or Foster in jet sweeps and plays like it that they are good at then there is no point having them both active when they can add some versatility to the O instead. 
 

even the announcers in the game says what our offense lacks is a receiver with size that can grab a  50/50 ball. That’s what Duke is good at that none of our other receivers are. McKenzie and Foster are the same player. Small guys with speed that haven’t added a whole heck of a lot. Why play both? 

[Don Otreply]

3 hours ago, boater said:

I  didn't read all 7 pages of posts. But here's the answer if it hasn't been mentioned before:

 

Duke contributes Zero to special teams.

 

He's a good receiver worthy of a bubble roster spot ..IF.. he did something on special teams.

It is just plain silly to sit a productive pass catcher on a team like the Bills to activate a virtually useless ST player, the Bills Need pass catchers now, more than they need a mostly useless ST guy, that could easily be replaced with DW. 

 

Go Bills !!!

[Hapless Bills Fan]

50 minutes ago, boater said:

I  didn't read all 7 pages of posts. But here's the answer if it hasn't been mentioned before:

Duke contributes Zero to special teams.

He's a good receiver worthy of a bubble roster spot ..IF.. he did something on special teams.

 

He played 24% of the snaps on teams against the Titans, 15% against Miami, and 0% against the Eagles

From which I think we can conclude...whatever he did on teams in the games, it was not considered to be enough of an ST contribution

[JoPoy88]

1 hour ago, Don Otreply said:

It is just plain silly to sit a productive pass catcher on a team like the Bills to activate a virtually useless ST player, the Bills Need pass catchers now, more than they need a mostly useless ST guy, that could easily be replaced with DW. 

 

Go Bills !!!

equally silly to dub a marginal player with a grand total of 8(!) targets in the NFL a “productive pass catcher.” But keep on crusadin’ it’s hilarious.

[vanhalen26]

I think he’s shown he deserves more game time.

[starrymessenger]

I'm hardly qualified to evaluate talent (except as a rank amateur, for what that's worth) but it looks to me that Duke doesn't dress largely because he does not fit in Daboll's offence. He prefers speedy smurfs, lots of them apparently, to a big possession receiver whose skillset relies more on physicality and good hands than it does on the ability to separate. Maybe that's entirely justified, idk. OTOH maybe if Anquan Boldin was on the roster he wouldn't get to dress either. Not saying Duke is Anquan, but Boldin's 40 time was 4.71, pretty much the same as Duke's. Boldin caught lots of balls in traffic when the D was in man and he was a good and smart enuf route runner to find the soft spots in coverage when facing zone. Is Daboll perhaps a little to dogmatic in adhering to his scheme? In the NFL the ability to adjust is generally necessary to avoid predictability.

Edited December 15, 2019 by starrymessenger

[Don Otreply]

11 hours ago, JoPoy88 said:

equally silly to dub a marginal player with a grand total of 8(!) targets in the NFL a “productive pass catcher.” But keep on crusadin’ it’s hilarious.

Trees/forest, meet Joypoy88, a bit stubborn but an okay human being, ?

[DuckyBoys]

Foster is not a smurf  He plays like one though.  I'd like to see Duke in there  We lack a receiver who fights through contact in close space and maybe Duke could be that guy.  If not can be please run the motion, jet sweeps that Mckenzie is good at.  I personally would like to see yeldon in there tonight

[MiltonWaddams]

18 minutes ago, DuckyBoys said:

Foster is not a smurf  He plays like one though.  I'd like to see Duke in there  We lack a receiver who fights through contact in close space and maybe Duke could be that guy.  If not can be please run the motion, jet sweeps that Mckenzie is good at.  I personally would like to see yeldon in there tonight

Yeldon won’t play because special-teams is going to be really key in this game. The Pittsburgh special teams unit is among the best, if not the best, in the league. Senorise will 100% be the third RB. I would love to see TJ in the offense  as well, but it just doesn’t seem like this is in the works this season

[DuckyBoys]

5 minutes ago, MiltonWaddams said:

Yeldon won’t play because special-teams is going to be really key in this game. The Pittsburgh special teams unit is among the best, if not the best, in the league. Senorise will 100% be the third RB. I would love to see TJ in the offense  as well, but it just doesn’t seem like this is in the works this season

Game day roster is based to heavy in special teams.  I'd rather have Yeldon  Hope they have a plan if Singeltary gets dinged  Gore all game long is a loss  They have been very lucky so far

[GregPersons]

Has tonight's roster been announced? Is Duke inactive again?

[Nelius]

On 12/14/2019 at 11:48 AM, NoSaint said:

right but when you post the exception to the rule and ignore why he was the exception it doesn’t do much in furthering the conversation 

 

I posted about 8 exceptions actually, and I can keep going. My argument is that there's no real cut-off for an acceptable 40 time, let alone it being 4.72, as history shows,. This is further based off the argument  that jrober just regularly makes stuff up to trash Bills players. 

 

He flat out said 4.72 is too slow to make it as a WR in the NFL. This is completely false.

Edited December 15, 2019 by Nelius

[Scott7975]

13 minutes ago, GregPersons said:

Has tonight's roster been announced? Is Duke inactive again?

Inactives come out 90 mins before each game.

[Rc2catch]

Holy crap this thread is still going? And up to 13 pages. Madness I tell you, madness. Hopefully he’s active tonight so this can die. 

[Buffalo716]

2 minutes ago, Nelius said:

 

I posted about 8 exceptions actually, and I can keep going. My argument is that there's no real cut-off for an acceptable 40 time, let alone it being 4.72, as history shows,. This is further based off the argument  that jrober just regularly makes stuff up to trash Bills players. 

 

I'll wait for the list of 4.3 burners that made the Hall of Fame.

Realistically you don't have to run a 4.3 to be a burner.. anything in the 4.40s in insanely fast

 

4.5s are still average NFL WR speed and they still run 15-20 mph at that speed

 

And the game is changing a bit. 40 times aren't end all be all but unless you are an insanely crafty route runner you better have good speed to seperate.  There aren't alot of guys with Keenan Allen's route running abilities

[Nelius]

3 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Realistically you don't have to run a 4.3 to be a burner.. anything in the 4.40s in insanely fast

 

4.5s are still average NFL WR speed and they still run 15-20 mph at that speed

 

And the game is changing a bit. 40 times aren't end all be all but unless you are an insanely crafty route runner you better have good speed to seperate.  There aren't alot of guys with Keenan Allen's route running abilities

 

 

Look I get it and I'll stop so as to not hijack. This isn't about Duke as he runs like a block of wood, but it's just completely false to say that 4.72 in general is too slow when some of the best ever ran in 4.6-4.8 territory. 

Edited December 15, 2019 by Nelius

[Don Otreply]

17 minutes ago, Rc2catch said:

Holy crap this thread is still going? And up to 13 pages. Madness I tell you, madness. Hopefully he’s active tonight so this can die. 

It will never die...?

 

Go Bills!!!

[Buffalo716]

16 minutes ago, Nelius said:

 

 

Look I get it and I'll stop so as to not hijack. This isn't about Duke as he runs like a block of wood, but it's just completely false to say that 4.72 in general is too slow when some of the best ever ran in 4.6-4.8 territory. 

That's true but the game is changing. I would wager that there aren't going to be many 4.7 guys who are tearing the the league in a few years

 

But change of pace and crispness of change of direction can make up for speed

[FireChans]

Duke Williams sucks. Brandon Reilly sucks. That one tall 7th rounder sucks. Marcus Easley sucks. 

 

Every single one of these clowns got propped up year after year after year for some bizarre reason. They suck. 

[Rc2catch]

13 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Duke Williams sucks. Brandon Reilly sucks. That one tall 7th rounder sucks. Marcus Easley sucks. 

 

Every single one of these clowns got propped up year after year after year for some bizarre reason. They suck. 

Da’Rick is making a comeback next season you watch and see. 

[FireChans]

12 minutes ago, Rc2catch said:

Da’Rick is making a comeback next season you watch and see. 

Why is Dezmin Lewis inactive?????

[Livinginthepast]

I would love to see Duke active again but I think this coaching staff likes to double down on their illogical decisions.  Hope I'm wrong but I don't even know if we see him again.

[Kiva]

I pretty much guarantee Duke is inactive tonight and for the remainder of the season. 
 

Real question is if Feliciano is playing. 

[JoPoy88]

9 minutes ago, Livinginthepast said:

I would love to see Duke active again but I think this coaching staff likes to double down on their illogical decisions.  Hope I'm wrong but I don't even know if we see him again.

pfff hahahaha yeah it’s the coaches being illogical about Duke. That’s a new one.

[Livinginthepast]

Just now, JoPoy88 said:

pfff hahahaha yeah it’s the coaches being illogical about Duke. That’s a new one.

well who else would it be? If you are looking for a previous GLARING example of bad player personnel selection by this COACHING staff see PETERMAN, NATHAN.

[Steptide]

Two words : stevie Johnson 

 

This guy played on the practice squad and fans called for him to play. It was the same argument. Fans calling for Johnson to play and jauron never putting him on the field. Chan Gailey came in and he was a 1000 yard reciever for 3 years. Point is, this is why fans call for guys like Duke williams. I've never thought Duke was a 1000 yard reciever, but like I've argued before, he's a bigger target for the red zone and those short passes 10 yards down the sideline. At this point I'm all for it with mckenzie not being a huge factor in games 

[Avisan]

39 minutes ago, Steptide said:

Two words : stevie Johnson 

 

This guy played on the practice squad and fans called for him to play. It was the same argument. Fans calling for Johnson to play and jauron never putting him on the field. Chan Gailey came in and he was a 1000 yard reciever for 3 years. Point is, this is why fans call for guys like Duke williams. I've never thought Duke was a 1000 yard reciever, but like I've argued before, he's a bigger target for the red zone and those short passes 10 yards down the sideline. At this point I'm all for it with mckenzie not being a huge factor in games 

If we're going with that era, I would argue that Duke could be our David Nelson.  Those first couple seasons he caught everything thrown his way despite not being much good at separating.  Eventually the catch rate fell off, and the injury sealed his deal, but he was an important part of the Gailey-Fitz offense.

[Bangarang]

Duke inactive. Pretty sure we lose now

[LB48]

Duke and Yeldon are inactive again tonight!

[SJDK]

2 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

Realistically you don't have to run a 4.3 to be a burner.. anything in the 4.40s in insanely fast

 

4.5s are still average NFL WR speed and they still run 15-20 mph at that speed

 

And the game is changing a bit. 40 times aren't end all be all but unless you are an insanely crafty route runner you better have good speed to seperate.  There aren't alot of guys with Keenan Allen's route running abilities

4.5’s are average for a pro. I ran a 4.52 in ninth grade, 25 years ago for crying out loud. Playing sega and drinking pop. 4.4’s is fast. 4.3’s is elite.

[Buffalo716]

4 minutes ago, SJDK said:

4.5’s are average for a pro. I ran a 4.52 in ninth grade, 25 years ago for crying out loud. Playing sega and drinking pop. 4.4’s is fast. 4.3’s is elite.

That's easy to say from the couch as I ran a 4.45 in college ball but real game speed is totally different and always has been

 

Josh Allen ran in the 4.6s or 4.7s and would smoke you and probably me ,he runs 20 + mph on some runs

Edited December 16, 2019 by Buffalo716