Allen needs another target

[T master]

He has one but they keep him on the inactive list DUKE !! 

[SCBills]

We don't even need a true #1, we just need another strong #2.  

 

Right now we have Brown on the outside, Beasley in the slot and Knox at tight end.  That's it. 

 

McKenzie is a nice piece, and should have a role next year as well, but he isn't that guy. Kroft is a solid #2 tight end behind Knox.

 

Foster circa last half of '18 could be that guy (for this year), but he never plays for whatever reason. 

 

 

Edited November 18, 2019 by SCBills

[Phil The Thrill]

1 hour ago, mjt328 said:

I'm sure WR will be a priority in the offseason.  

As many have stated, the upcoming draft class is being touted as one of the best ever.  We should be able to get a really good one late in the first round.

 

For this season, I think we have enough talent to put some points on the board.

Personally, I would like to see them use Cole Beasley as more of a short yardage guy, instead of downfield routes.  Too much Isaiah McKenzie on the outside, and give Robert Foster/Duke Williams more chances to make plays in that spot.

 

I will bet anything the team looks to upgrade at WR in the draft.  
 

I agree that they need a better outside threat and the team knows it.  I just don’t think that there were good options out there.

 

Beane wisely didn’t want to trade a 1st or 2nd round pick for a receiver like Sanders or Sanu. While the move would have helped the team this season, in the long-term it probably wouldn’t. 
 

Cincinnati was very foolish for keeping players like AJ Green and Andy Dalton on their rosters, when they could have traded them for mid-round picks

 

[BADOLBILZ]

15 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think that was kind of the point though. Did they expect Phillips to be as good as he has? Maybe not. But they signed him to make sure that the position wasn't a "need" in the way the Bills have had in the past when letting players walk. They had a guy who played reasonably well for them down the stretch last year in situ and then they took the best guy on their board. I think they deserve some credit for that. It was a better approach than has been taken by some past regimes.

 

They deserve some credit but they also have full control of the checkbook so I'm not inclined to give too much credit for common sense that maybe prior regimes did not have the option to exercise.   They also had no idea they were going to get the opportunity to select Ed Oliver so they really couldn't let Phillips leave.

 

What I will give them + credit for is that I think they understand that there is a correlation between fatigue and injury and have invested in depth at DL and rotated a lot and subsequently have one of the healthier D fronts in the NFL this late in the year.     

[badassgixxer05]

1 hour ago, Dont Stop Billeiving said:

Like what you did there...

 

Both guys you mentioned are great prospects and fit our need for a bigger WR who can elevate, provide a large catch radius, and win contested 50/50 balls.

 

If I can add a name to your list, I'd suggest Chase Claypool (WR- Notre Dame). He's a physical specimen at 6'4" 229 lbs and has 9 TDs in ten games this year. He's limited by somewhat average QB play but has made huge plays when targeted and has been described that your usual 50/50 balls are more like 80/20 in his favor. Probably a guy we could get in the 2nd or 3rd and would provide Josh with a big target who can still separate and beat the man across from him consistently. 

Hes been turning it on as of late. I wouldn't be surprised if hes considered 1st round projection by end of season. Hes a beast and can run after the catch. Plus the guy catches everything!

[Dont Stop Billeiving]

37 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

https://und.com/roster/chase-claypool/

Any chance you're an ND fan as well? I was just talking about Claypool a few posts back...what a game on Saturday! I am impatiently waiting for tickets to become available for the 2020 Notre Dame-Navy game here in Dublin! ?

 

And before anyone says it was only Navy, they had the 25th ranked defense in the country before the game. Claypool has bossed it against strong and weak competition alike, his biggest limitation as I mentioned above is the surprisingly disappointing production from QB Ian Book this year. 

 

Claypool is exactly the type of WR we don't currently have and desperately need!

[Sundancer]

54 minutes ago, ILBillsfan said:

Brown is definitely having a good season 

 

Add a big talented WR that wins 50/50 balls (see Mike Evans) and this offense would be scary good

 

 

 

Evans is one of the best WRs in football but yes that kind of player is what they need. Could also use a guy who can break an arm tackle and get YAC. Clearly that's not Cole and it's really not Brown either. 

[C.Biscuit97]

Just now, Dont Stop Billeiving said:

Any chance you're an ND fan as well? I was just talking about Claypool a few posts back...what a game on Saturday! I am impatiently waiting for tickets to become available for the 2020 Notre Dame-Navy game here in Dublin! ?

 

And before anyone says it was only Navy, they had the 25th ranked defense in the country before the game. Claypool has bossed it against strong and weak competition alike, his biggest limitation as I mentioned above is the surprisingly disappointing production from QB Ian Book this year. 

 

Claypool is exactly the type of WR we don't currently have and desperately need!

I always appreciated ND as a Catholic who went to a Jesuit school.  But I don’t follow them religiously ?. But I listen to a podcast with Daniel Jeremiah and Ryen Russillo and they were hyping him up. So I’ve been watching him. He is fairly raw but just keeps getting better. Love that he’s Canadian (they love Buffalo) and he is playing for his sister (she committed suicide).  With this draft being so deep at receiver, he could slip to the 2nd and would be an absolute perfect compliment to Brown and Beasley. 

[Dont Stop Billeiving]

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I always appreciated ND as a Catholic who went to a Jesuit school.  But I don’t follow them religiously ?. But I listen to a podcast with Daniel Jeremiah and Ryen Russillo and they were hyping him up. So I’ve been watching him. He is fairly raw but just keeps getting better. Love that he’s Canadian (they love Buffalo) and he is playing for his sister (she committed suicide).  With this draft being so deep at receiver, he could slip to the 2nd and would be an absolute perfect compliment to Brown and Beasley. 

Nice, yeah he has really started to produce at a level matching his physical talents this year. And you make a good point in that he's a great person with a lot of motivation as well and being from Canada (BC I think) won't mind the cold weather.

 

Claypool with our second pick would be a steal...fingers crossed. Good chat man, go Bills!

[Jerboski]

CeeDee Lamb, that is all

[junior]

3 hours ago, ganesh said:

Yeah. We still need a starting power RB, a starting CB,  3rd WR who can stretch the field, two on the OL,  two on the DL and rushing LB (due to Alexander retiring after this season)...May be a kicker too

 

Agreed on getting RB, CB, and third WR at those tiers.

 

Are you thinking we need two new starters on the OL and DL? Or are those depth additions? 

[dakrider]

its disappointing that of McKenzie, Roberts, Foster and Williams none of them have stepped up this year.  

Throw in last years Benjamin, Zay Jones and Ray Ray McCloud - Bills have had several garbage receivers. 

[Dkollidas]

10 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

They have enough to win now.  Just keep developing the tight ends and try to get a few more throws to Beasley

 

I dont think they have enough on offense to contend with Baltimore, New England, New Orleans, Green Bay and San Francisco’s of the league.

 

I like Knox a lot, and Beasley is solid, but they need an outside weapon. Right now they have Brown on the outside on one side, then a bunch of inside & underneath options with Knox, Kroft, Beasley, Singletary and McKenzie. They need a guy who can play as a true Outside option opposite Brown to help spread the defense horizontally.

[Spiderweb]

After the second half of the season that Foster had last year, one would think the Bills would be doing everything they can to get his explosiveness on the field. The few sightings of him simply won't do. What does he have this year, one catch? Two?

[starrymessenger]

If next year's class is as great as people say, I'd consider drafting 2, with one in the later rounds if a good one is there. Regardless I think they need 2. An outside guy to complement Smoke, and a big intermediate range possession and red zone target (like Duke was supposed to be - or maybe is- who knows). 

[ColoradoBills]

After next years FA and Draft it could very likely be that the WR group will be a big strength of the team.

[Bronxbomber21]

12 hours ago, Dkollidas said:

Miami is bad.

Terribly bad. 

But I think we saw today that what this team needs more than anything is a game breaker on offense. 

 

Brown is a really nice piece. He’s a borderline #1 right now.

 

Singletary may just become a talented lead back who can make place running and receiving.

 

Beasley is solid in the slot.

 

Knox has had his drops and miscues, but overall seems to be progressing.

 

The O-Line as a whole seems to be properly gelling.

 

The defense has been spectacular. And it seems they may have addressed the run problem with Liuget (or at least helped limit it).

 

The only real concern for the defense is edge pressure, which has been decent, but unspectacular. But even so, they manage to manufacture pressure while limiting their blitzing. 

 

To me the main piece we still need is a legit #1 receiver. 

 

Hopefully they do it in the draft, and get a young player that can develop alongside Allen. 

 

If they do manage to get him a legit #1 WR, I think he, and his numbers, and the offense and team as a whole, would benefit moreso than any addition to the team. 

 

 

U forgot about replacing Levi Wallace

can we still sign EJ Gaines is he healthy yet

[LABILLBACKER]

You stick Michael Pittman Jr on the other side of Smoke. OMG!  He's the target in the late 1st. 

[BADOLBILZ]

20 minutes ago, Spiderweb said:

After the second half of the season that Foster had last year, one would think the Bills would be doing everything they can to get his explosiveness on the field. The few sightings of him simply won't do. What does he have this year, one catch? Two?

 

 

It's astounding to me how far off radar Foster has fallen.   I am always surprised when a pass is actually completed cleanly to McKenzie so it's not like there aren't easy hurdles for Foster to jump in this WR corps.    I understand Daboll has a bunch of plays that he wants to run that he needs a quick start/stop guy but it's just hard to operate a downfield passing game that can take advantage of Allen's arm with any consistency with BOTH Beasley and McKenzie out there in 3 WR sets.   

[Matt_In_NH]

john brown is 8th in yards and 15th in receptions for whatever that is worth.

[2003Contenders]

Brown was a great pick-up and has nicely exceeded expectations. Beasley is fine as a slot WR.

 

The issue is with McKenzie/Roberts/Foster/Williams. I am not sure why we are not seeing more of Williams, as he was pretty much catching all of his targets. Maybe he is not 100% healthy -- or perhaps he has not been doing what he needs to in practice.  I am also perplexed by Foster, who played so well well in the back-half of the 2018 season. Maybe he too is not 100% healthy -- or, worse, maybe he has regressed to his pre-cut ways from last season. I am not sure that both Roberts and McKenzie both need to be on this roster. I know Roberts is the return-man and McKenzie is nice on the gadget plays -- but neither is an effective/reliable receiver.

 

We really need someone to play outside opposite Brown, who is big/physical and has the speed to get open. One thing that Miami did well yesterday was run some drag routes with Parker that helped them to negate his mismatch against T. White (who otherwise pretty much held Parker in check). if we could add that element to this offense (with a large-bodied receiver capable of running such a route), I think it would really open things up.

Edited November 18, 2019 by 2003Contenders

[TigerJ]

There is another thread reporting that John Brown is the leading receiver in the AFC (7th in the NFL).  That's pretty good for a guy who isn't a #1.  I do think it is likely Buffalo will draft a receiver in the first 2 or 3 rounds next April, but there are some other needs too that could sidetrack that thinking.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

4 hours ago, Dkollidas said:

 

I dont think they have enough on offense to contend with Baltimore, New England, New Orleans, Green Bay and San Francisco’s of the league.

 

I like Knox a lot, and Beasley is solid, but they need an outside weapon. Right now they have Brown on the outside on one side, then a bunch of inside & underneath options with Knox, Kroft, Beasley, Singletary and McKenzie. They need a guy who can play as a true Outside option opposite Brown to help spread the defense horizontally.

Why? None of those teams you mentioned have a WR group much better than Buffalo's?  Michael Thomas is probably the best WR on all these teams and maybe the best in the NFL.  He alone may make the Saints group better than BIlls.  Davante Adams is very good but Brown has a higher YPC.  Kittle is top weapon for 49ers but now hurt.

I'm not opposed to drafting a big WR to go with Brown and Beasley.  I just rank it far below DE, DE, OLB, DT, and RT at this point in terms of needs.    

[19Bills83]

Brown 56 rec. 817yds = #1

Beasley 44 rec. and 449yds = #2

 

Beane did a pretty damn good job in the offseason.

[aristocrat]

knox has 279 yards, hockenson around 360, fant the same.  great value

[Solomon Grundy]

14 hours ago, njbuff said:

Look no further than the excellent WR class of 2020 coming up.

Two names to look out for who should be in the Bills plans are: 

 

Laviska Shenault WR Colorado 6-2 225

 

Tyler Johnson WR Minnesota 6-2 205

 

Both are blue chip prospects and one of them should be available at 32 ?.

Don't sleep on CeeDee Lamb!! He plucks the ball out of the air. 

[Solomon Grundy]

6 hours ago, Jerboski said:

CeeDee Lamb, that is all

Will contribute right out the gate

[zow2]

On some of those plays yesterday when Allen had ample time and basically threw non catchable passes it was painfully obvious that our receivers had no separation. 

[Solomon Grundy]

The need for another target is for when they play the Patriots. We know that Belichick always takes away the top target

[Dkollidas]

1 hour ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Why? None of those teams you mentioned have a WR group much better than Buffalo's?  Michael Thomas is probably the best WR on all these teams and maybe the best in the NFL.  He alone may make the Saints group better than BIlls.  Davante Adams is very good but Brown has a higher YPC.  Kittle is top weapon for 49ers but now hurt.

I'm not opposed to drafting a big WR to go with Brown and Beasley.  I just rank it far below DE, DE, OLB, DT, and RT at this point in terms of needs.    

 

I think regarding positions of need:

1) RT- can be addressed in free agency cheaply. And we did invest in Ford, who I believe the team wants to give time to develop into the long term RT.  I get wanting to add depth, but if you look st the analytics for our blocking we actually grade fairly decent. I think another off-season together will also help this group really gain some chemistry/cohesion. 

 

2) DT- I believe Liuget was a solid add-on. Having Harrison Phillips come back next year will help greatly against the run. Oliver is developing and Jordan Phillips seems to be turning into a real player. I don’t see this as a position of need. Star struggles at times, but this defense as a whole is set up to stop the pass, and I’d rather worry about that in the league today.

 

3) OLB- Alexander probably retires after this season. But he’s definitely lost a step this season compared to how he’s played in years past. I think Milano is a legit player, and Thompson adds solid depth. Vosean Joseph will also be back next season as well to further bolster the depth at linebacker. Also, they usually run a lot of nickel, so having a 3rd OLB isn’t my biggest concern. Could also see them going after a guy like Vic Beasley in free agency to try to play that spot.

 

4) DE- this I agree is an issue. But we have Hughes coming back next year. Shaq will probably rest free agency and leave, but that’s not a huge loss, he’s solid but unspectacular. Honestly I could see them parting ways with Murphy, who has been a disappointment and going after a quality free agent (Clowney, Ngakoue, Ansah, Leonard Williams, etc.). We also have Darryl Johnson as deoth, along with Mike Love who is either on Practice Squad or IR, (I honestly can’t remember). 

 

Regardless of the teams I mentioned I think New England is the only one with a worse group of offensive weapons than ours.

 

New Orleans has arguably the best receiver in the game.

Green Bay has Adams who’s a legit #1 option that can command 10+ targets/game. I really like John Brown, but he’s not there yet. 

Baltimore is far deeper than us, and used their 1st round pick on an explosive offensive weapon in Marquise Brown and they run a very different scheme that uses all 3 of their tight ends. 

I would argue the 49’ers are also much deeper with Kittle being joined by Sanders as well.

 

Also, please understand I’m not saying not to continue investing in the trenches. I just believe a top end receiver could really open things up for the offense and their playcalling/scheming. With a multitude of extra late picks this year (two 5th’s and three 6th’s) I believe they’ll be able to add depth to both trenches in the later rounds. 

 

Also, I’m usually more in favor of a BPA approach to the early part of the draft. This year is particularly strong for Wide Receivers. This would incline me towards one of those players as well. 

 

[Questionable]

Imo, we need great pass rushing DE and another legit CB opposite of White more than a Wr. 

 

We have receivers that are more than capable. 

 

Brown is a number 1.

 

It all hinges on Allens accuracy and his ability to progress through reads. 

 

Ive been critical of Allen because he hasn't been accurate at all over the last few weeks. 

 

He was extremely accurate on Sunday and his ball placement really allowed receivers to make plays after the catch. 

 

If he can continue to dial in his accuracy/ball placement we WILL put up points. 

 

The talent is here, it just all revolves around Qb play and execution. 

 

Allen and the offense as a whole executed beautifully and we got to sit back and watch an explosion of points and it was wonderful. 

[Augie]

In related news, the sun is hot!    ?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

18 hours ago, StHustle said:

Please tell me how Brown is "borderline" #1 right now? The man is on pace for 1300 yards in a sub par offense lead by a QB who has never even hot the 300 yard mark in his career. There is nothing borderline about that. He leads the NFL with consecutive 50+ yard games. Think about that for a second.  He was known as a field stretcher before he got here but because Josh lost his deep ball this season, Brown has proven he can do it all BESIDES be a 50/50 type receiver because of his size. So again, how is he borderline? Because of his size? I often see people around here reluctant to call Brown a #1 but never give a valid reason.

 

Fair question.  Brown is showing himself to be an excellent WR who can run all the routes, make a catch when he knows he'll be hit, is able to adjust on a ball and help his QB, and is willing to stretch out or jump for a ball.

 

What he's missing off being a true #1, IMO, is that "open when he's covered" part of the game.   His greatest strength becomes a weakness there - the size that helps give him speed and nimbleness makes him vulnerable to having his arm held back or being kept from going up for a ball.  Yes, that's DPI but it happens routinely.

4 hours ago, zow2 said:

On some of those plays yesterday when Allen had ample time and basically threw non catchable passes it was painfully obvious that our receivers had no separation. 

 

That was true in some plays in the Browns game too

11 hours ago, dakrider said:

its disappointing that of McKenzie, Roberts, Foster and Williams none of them have stepped up this year.  

Throw in last years Benjamin, Zay Jones and Ray Ray McCloud - Bills have had several garbage receivers. 

 

The team appears to feel McKenzie is stepping.

[Maybe Someday]

I'm assuming the issues with Foster and Duke are mental. They have to be able to read defenses too, sometimes on the fly. Don't know what you're doing you don't play. 

 

Amari Cooper will likely be available. 

[Bookie Man]

Man I wish Mike Williams' rookie contract was up this year. I think he and Allen would be a great combo.