Jump to content

Joe B All-22 Bills at Browns - Allen sees ghosts/White and Safeties shine


YoloinOhio

Recommended Posts

I think Allen deserves some slack. The Browns blitzed a lot and his Ford and Dawkins weren't holding up very well. That's hard on any QB, much less a second-year player. "Guys were getting open" doesn't mean much when he has to decide where to go before they do get open. I think Cover 1 pointed out that his hot reads might have been too slow developing; if so, that's on Daboll. Also, he's not getting any credit for scoring two TDs on his own, nor for his scrambles. His receivers aren't helping him much. Knox and Brown both dropped passes (again), and McKenzie, not Allen, might not have been at fault for that missed long pass. And the play calling. I don't think it's as bad as others have said, but let's say it wasn't brilliant. 

 

I'm not making excuses for him, just providing balance to the legitimate criticisms he's receiving. Someone pointed out that Bills fans are jealous of Lamar Jackson and it's affecting their judgment of Allen, and I think that's right. People forget he's a development project, not a win-now guy like Jackson and, supposedly, Mayfield. Jim Kelly had two years in the USFL before he joined the Bills, and while he was arguably better than Allen is now, he wasn't Lamar Jackson or Dan Marino in 1986. He needed time, and so does Allen. 

  • Like (+1) 2
  • Awesome! (+1) 1
  • Thank you (+1) 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, Gray Beard said:

A comment that the announcers made was that Allen doesn’t throw with anticipation. Instead he waits for the guy to be open then throws a bullet. 

I think that’s an accurate assessment, and it’s hard to catch a bullet. 

He can, and he has. He doesn’t do it consistently at this point. 

Edited by YoloinOhio
  • Like (+1) 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

My favorite Allen mishap ? Dimarco literally pointing to a wide open Knox

IMG_20191113_080504.jpg

I love these type of pictures. It shows that there are often players wide open but the QB has to anticipate it beforehand. At other times either play design or the defensive match up has every receiver blanketed at which time the offensive play design needs to ALWAYS have a check down option. The problem with the Bills 2019 offense is that neither is happening regularly enough to sustain long drives. Is it scheme? Is it execution?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

My favorite Allen mishap ? Dimarco literally pointing to a wide open Knox

IMG_20191113_080504.jpg

Bahahah I saw that too and texted my buddy about it during the game.  

 

Know went from wide freaking open to tightly covered because the pass was late and didn't lead him to open space. 

 

Didn't Knox end up dropping the pass?  He also had the drop along the sideline early in the game on third down.  I think he had another too.  

 

Hard to believe he's a top 5 performer with those critical drops in there.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, peterpan said:

Bahahah I saw that too and texted my buddy about it during the game.  

 

Know went from wide freaking open to tightly covered because the pass was late and didn't lead him to open space. 

 

Didn't Knox end up dropping the pass?  He also had the drop along the sideline early in the game on third down.  I think he had another too.  

 

Hard to believe he's a top 5 performer with those critical drops in there.  

I believe Knox dropped that pass, but it was extremely late . There is no reason Allen shouldn't have let the ball rip there. It's as  EASY a 6 points you'll get in this league. For the first time since coming back from the injury last year, I'm worried about Allen. I'm seeing too many red flags on a consistent basis with him

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

I believe Knox dropped that pass, but it was extremely late . There is no reason Allen shouldn't have let the ball rip there. It's as  EASY a 6 points you'll get in this league. For the first time since coming back from the injury last year, I'm worried about Allen. I'm seeing too many red flags on a consistent basis with him

 

 

Same here, although I continue to think he's not being put in the best situation given the lack of playmakers.

 

That said, his problems all stem from slow processing speed, which was an issue in college and is a hard thing to correct as a pro.  His accuracy issues result from poor mechanics which result from delayed processing - he has less time to set his base, because it takes him too long to recognize where to throw it.  He's just not reading defenses well enough or quickly enough and it's troubling that it's still going on after 20 games.  Should he get another 20 games?  Absolutely.  But as I've said, in the meantime I'd draft or sign a developmental guy, someone with lesser tools but faster processing speed (a Minshew/Kyle Allen type).

  • Like (+1) 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

58 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

My favorite Allen mishap ? Dimarco literally pointing to a wide open Knox

IMG_20191113_080504.jpg

 

He did still end up hitting him in the hands though. I dont see the uproar about him rolling out as some speculate to find a lane and Dawkins was losing his block AGAIN.  But he could have led Knox couple yards more to the right or to the back of the EZ.  

 

My take: right read but late because he moved outside of the pocket (he started progression to his left btw) and inaccurate throw, that still should have been caught. 

 

If Allen was seeing ghosts, one of them must have been Dawkins’ invisible blocking on Garrett.  Surprised he didn’t grade in the bottom 5 too.  

 

 

  • Like (+1) 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

I agree Allen needs a elite weapon but guys were getting open vs the Browns and Allen just couldn't deliver. We really should've had that Browns game, so many missed opportunities and dumb decision making cost us a valuable win. 

True, but he did have that beast Garrett blowing up our line quite a bit as well. That was definitely shaking Allen up too. He was panicking a bit because of it. Which is fair for a guy who's only got 20 or so starts under his belt.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

He did still end up hitting him in the hands though. I dont see the uproar about him rolling out as some speculate to find a lane and Dawkins was losing his block AGAIN.  But he could have led Knox couple yards more to the right or to the back of the EZ.  

 

My take: right read but late because he moved outside of the pocket (he started progression to his left btw) and inaccurate throw, that still should have been caught. 

 

If Allen was seeing ghosts, one of them must have been Dawkins’ invisible blocking on Garrett.  Surprised he didn’t grade in the bottom 5 too.  

 

 

It wasn’t good though. I think he got a C.  Tough assignment but still. 

Edited by YoloinOhio
  • Like (+1) 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

He doesn’t make much for a starting DE. But still shouldn’t be playing so many snaps. I don’t think that at all about Shaq. That would make no sense because he’s clearly not a priority for them to re-sign to the point they would do something like that.  

Lee Smith was the 6th worst

I really wish we had a better starting DE tandem. Like Hughes was making $9 mil and then a stud pass rushing end making $15-$18mil. Not banging on Hughes, he plays sound football but his days of disrupting a game seem behind him. Murphy should be a rotational guy getting a ton fewer snaps. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

I really wish we had a better starting DE tandem. Like Hughes was making $9 mil and then a stud pass rushing end making $15-$18mil. Not banging on Hughes, he plays sound football but his days of disrupting a game seem behind him. Murphy should be a rotational guy getting a ton fewer snaps. 

For sure. I believe it will be the top offseason priority 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, JR in Pittsburgh said:

Another All-22 brought to you by a guy with no actual football knowledge. I look forward to the other beat writers, who will have dramatically different takes on the same film. 

You're funny.  What exactly makes you think he has no football knowledge?  He is actually spot on most of the time.  Which narrative do you subscribe to?  Do tell.  It appears that many on this board are so full of ***** and want to B word and don't provide any substance or argument.  Just saying someone sucks and not offering any alternative does nothing for the board but prove you area blockhead!

  • Like (+1) 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

33 minutes ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

I really wish we had a better starting DE tandem. Like Hughes was making $9 mil and then a stud pass rushing end making $15-$18mil. Not banging on Hughes, he plays sound football but his days of disrupting a game seem behind him. Murphy should be a rotational guy getting a ton fewer snaps. 

 

Hughes has always been almost elite. Love the guys tenacity.  If Devin is motor, jerry should be jet engine. He’s always chasing plays downfield working hard around the ball. Hes just a fraction short on some or other measurable to be tops.

 

Solid player. If he was the worst of the front 4 no QB would want the bills d.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

Murphy is not living up to his price tag. Do you think the Bills would limit Lawson’s snaps so his stats don’t grow and impact resigning?

That is quite the conspiracy theory.  If that were to happen, that would be ***** and I wouldn't believe a thing that comes out from the GM/Coach about putting the best players out there.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just read the article.  Seems fair enough, for an amateur.

 

I will always repeat what Kyle Williams said when he was told people are reviewing the All-22 and grading him.   He essentially said it's ridiculous.   He asked how someone who doesn't know what his assignment was can evaluate how he performed.   

 

So when Buscaglia goes after Trent Murphy, I just remember what Kyle said.   Everyone was going after Lotulelei a week or two ago, until the team and coaches finally came to his defense said he's doing exactly what he was brought in to do.  It's nice that Joe B is grading every player, but the only grades that matter are the ones that the Bills coaches are giving to players.  I'd like the link to that website.  

 

I think that comment applies to every position, but a little less so to the skill position players, because we can see what they're doing.   So, for example, I think what he says about Allen is pretty good.   He's critical of several aspects of Allen's play, but it's clear that Buscaglia isn't saying Allen is a failure - he's just saying that Allen needs to improve or he will fail.  I think that's true.  And I agree with Joe B that Allen is showing that he can do all of the things that he needs to do - he's shown that he can throw with anticipation, he's shown that he can manage the pocket, he's shown that he can scramble and throw on the run, he's shown it all.  But he's also showing that he can't do it consistently yet, and that's what's missing.   He's making the right decisions some of the time, he's making decisions quickly some of the time, he's making quality throws some of the time.   He needs to do all of that more consistently.  

  • Like (+1) 2
  • Awesome! (+1) 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

28 minutes ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

That is quite the conspiracy theory.  If that were to happen, that would be ***** and I wouldn't believe a thing that comes out from the GM/Coach about putting the best players out there.

I hear ya, it was an honest question to spark some chatter. 
I must admit I am not sure how Lawson stacks up against Murphy in the stat category or when you watch the all 22 tape. With my eyes it appears Murphy is making tackles yards down the field and able to get crashed down on outside runs. On the contrary I see Lawson more stout on run defense. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

36 minutes ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

You're funny.  What exactly makes you think he has no football knowledge?  He is actually spot on most of the time.  Which narrative do you subscribe to?  Do tell.  It appears that many on this board are so full of ***** and want to B word and don't provide any substance or argument.  Just saying someone sucks and not offering any alternative does nothing for the board but prove you area blockhead!


Every week we get all these writers reading the same film and reaching opposite conclusions. It’s nice and entertaining that they try to do it— but I have gotten to the point where I don’t find any of them to have any credibility or ability to understand and process the film, at least in a reliable way.
 

It would be like you or me analyzing the all-22. I am sure we can make some decent points and be right occasionally, but we don’t know anything about the play calls, order of progressions, schemes, options, defensive reads, you name it. It’s largely guess work. 
 

It’s why for many weeks we would see analysts saying at the same time: (1) Star is the weakest player and he is the best player; (2) Edmunds is hurting us, and Edmunds is playing lights out; (3) Josh is making all the right reads but it’s bad play calls, and he is making all the wrong reads and the play calling is good. 
 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, JR in Pittsburgh said:


Every week we get all these writers reading the same film and reaching opposite conclusions. It’s nice and entertaining that they try to do it— but I have gotten to the point where I don’t find any of them to have any credibility or ability to understand and process the film, at least in a reliable way.
 

It would be like you or me analyzing the all-22. I am sure we can make some decent points and be right occasionally, but we don’t know anything about the play calls, order of progressions, schemes, options, defensive reads, you name it. It’s largely guess work. 
 

It’s why for many weeks we would see analysts saying at the same time: (1) Star is the weakest player and he is the best player; (2) Edmunds is hurting us, and Edmunds is playing lights out; (3) Josh is making all the right reads but it’s bad play calls, and he is making all the wrong reads and the play calling is good. 
 

Opposite conclusions would be welcome - please post them 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

Top 5 graded players 

Morse

Hyde

Tre White

Dawson Knox

Poyer

 

lowest 5 graded players 

Ford

Gore

Allen 

Trent Murphy 

levi Wallace 

Well yeah it was valid!

When will McDermott recognize its time to put the Ford project on the shelf this season. Also Trent Murphy, Lee Smith??

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, the skycap said:

When will McDermott recognize its time to put the Ford project on the shelf this season. Also Trent Murphy, Lee Smith??

 

If Ford doesn't pan out as RT, you definitely have to question the wisdom of trading up for him and passing up a true blue chip RG in Risner.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

For sure. I believe it will be the top offseason priority 

So let's keep building the defense cause that's the Buffalo way. The defense is good enough if they had an average offense. They need to draft some playmakers on offense over any defense. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

Using the Ghost thing is just lazy and completely inaccurate... Allen didn't come anywhere damn near the ***** show that Darnold displayed during the ghost game. 

He may not have seen ghosts but he still isn't good enough. Its his 2nd season and he should be having a bigger jump in play but he hasn't. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Jrb1979 said:

He may not have seen ghosts but he still isn't good enough. Its his 2nd season and he should be having a bigger jump in play but he hasn't. 

 

He's played what, 20 games now? This is the guy who was recognized as the biggest project in that draft class (except for Lamar who is a different breed) and was said to need several years to develop but so far this year has looked like the best of the lot (again excluding lamar). This is the guy whose shown consistent growth in some of his biggest weaknesses from year one to year two. This is the guy whose playing with an offense that has no identity and no balance and being asked to throw the ball 41 times against one of the worst run defenses in the league. This is the guy whose put the team on his back several times to win games this year (with our 6-3 record) and even put us in position to win this game twice. 

 

You're not wrong that he needs to improve. Your timeline is classic bills fan though. 

  • Like (+1) 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

36 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

 

He's played what, 20 games now? This is the guy who was recognized as the biggest project in that draft class (except for Lamar who is a different breed) and was said to need several years to develop but so far this year has looked like the best of the lot (again excluding lamar). This is the guy whose shown consistent growth in some of his biggest weaknesses from year one to year two. This is the guy whose playing with an offense that has no identity and no balance and being asked to throw the ball 41 times against one of the worst run defenses in the league. This is the guy whose put the team on his back several times to win games this year (with our 6-3 record) and even put us in position to win this game twice. 

 

You're not wrong that he needs to improve. Your timeline is classic bills fan though. 

 

Daboll deserves equal share of the blame. There is no excuse for that game plan and not attacking Cleveland's weakness which was the run.

  • Like (+1) 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, JerseyBills said:

I believe Knox dropped that pass, but it was extremely late . There is no reason Allen shouldn't have let the ball rip there. It's as  EASY a 6 points you'll get in this league. For the first time since coming back from the injury last year, I'm worried about Allen. I'm seeing too many red flags on a consistent basis with him

 

 

No big games this year and he's consistently mediocre.  If we had some big chunk plays mixed in, his inaccuracy and inconsistency would be somewhat excused.  He just isn't doing it as a passer.  Dabol is not good but Allen doesn't make his job easier if he can't complete passes to guys who are open.

 

 

  • Thank you (+1) 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, HeHateMe said:

 

No big games this year and he's consistently mediocre.  If we had some big chunk plays mixed in, his inaccuracy and inconsistency would be somewhat excused.  He just isn't doing it as a passer.  Dabol is not good but Allen doesn't make his job easier if he can't complete passes to guys who are open.

 

 

He just needs more time. ?. Maybe by year 5 he will be ranked in the upper 20's as a QB. I realize a lot of you are afraid to start over again at QB. Now that the games are on the line against tougher teams I don't see him being much better. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

He will get the rest of this year and next to prove it.

 

 

Don't be upset when this is his ceiling. A good QB makes guys around him better. He is not even close to that. He still struggles to read a defense which at this point he should be much better at. 

  • Like (+1) 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

He will get the rest of this year and next to prove it.

 

 

 

Not if he continues this trend.  If Allen doesn't improve, I'm sure we're going to bring in a seasoned vet that could challenge Allen next year.

Similar to what the Titans did with bringing in Tannehill.  Titans were concerned about Mariota, still started him but now he's on the bench.  Tannehill improved the offense to mediocre level when with Mariota, it was a bottom feeder.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Im not disagreeing with you.... I'm just tell you what I think will happen. 

 

They will ride with Allen as long as they can. I think it's a little ridiculous that this talk is even going on now, however, I think the whole regime will he on the hot seat if he doesn't improve by seasons end. 

What's so ridiculous? He is not good enough and he need to improve in a hurry if they are going win games the rest of the way. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

39 minutes ago, Jrb1979 said:

Don't be upset when this is his ceiling. A good QB makes guys around him better. He is not even close to that. He still struggles to read a defense which at this point he should be much better at. 

So what should the team do about the QB position?  Bench Allen? Draft a QB in the 1st round next year?  What is your plan here?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...