Daboll is an excellent play caller

[Chas6969]

7 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

What the Hell does 5 years have to do with sunlight hours in the day??

Are you just being snide? 5 years is a reference point.?

[Gugny]

52 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

So, it’s the ‘Haves’ vs the Gugnyites, eh? 

Well here’s a little salt for your Cheerios, G’s; One team stands alone at the top of the stat sheet for RedZone efficiency (read Scoring), and It isn’t Brady & Belichek, Brees & Payton, Mahomes & Reid, Goff, Rodgers or Jimmy G.

 

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/red-zone-scoring-pct

 

-pretty damn effective traveling over 70 yards to get in the RedZone as well. Yet, they continue to be plagued by penalties and untimely dropped passes. Far from the experienced proficiency of the others mentioned, Buffalo has NINE new players starting on Offense from the start of ‘18. That’s  9. Count ‘em. NINE! Barreling down the field almost at will and punching it their face AND the into the Endzone! They’re doing it with 3 rookies starting, a second year QB and castoffs at OL & WR.

 

jmo, but it’s pretty juvenile to think the OC sucks and should be replaced.

 

I agree with all of the good stuff.  I've never said that Daboll is "all bad."

 

I also agree that the red zone success has been impressive and a lot of the reason we don't get there more is on the drops and penalties.

 

I am getting hung up (perhaps too much) on things like McKenzie being a healthy scratch against Philly; and Gore/Singletary getting a combined 12 carries in the same game ... and continuing to run Gore up the gut when Singletary was effective all day .... and inexplicably stopping throwing the ball to Knox.

 

Just too many head-scratchers. 

 

I don't want him to be fired.  I want consistency with the coaching staff for as long as we can enjoy it.  But I honestly feel that these ridiculous changes in game-plan (within the same game) are throwing off any kind of groove Josh Allen and the entire offense are getting into.

 

I find it difficult to overlook that simply because he's doing other things well.

[TroutDog]

17 minutes ago, SirAndrew said:

I’m not intelligent enough to understand. On a serious note, I know what you mean by the game being in hand, but usually teams come out of the gate running their normal offense in regular season games. I don’t understand what Daboll is hiding, please englighten the ignorant. The Pats and Brady have run an offensive scheme that has worked for years. They don’t need to hide what they are. 

They were in a position to not have to show anything other than the most basic of schemes...as evidenced by them scoring TD’s and handily winning the game. 
 

Wasn’t trying to be a turd, was just goofing as all of this has been discussed ad nauseum over multiple threads. 
 

People can choose to believe Woods is throttled by his employer but he certainly doesn’t come across that way. I met him a few years ago on Canandaigua Lake and he calls it like he sees it. He did then and he appears to do so now.

 

This team is 6-2 and there is a lot of room for improvement and he consistently points that out. 

[Orlando Tim]

I think Daboll is still figuring out what he has on the offense and while figuring it out is 6-2 so I give him more time.

[dave mcbride]

26 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

I agree with all of the good stuff.  I've never said that Daboll is "all bad."

 

I also agree that the red zone success has been impressive and a lot of the reason we don't get there more is on the drops and penalties.

 

I am getting hung up (perhaps too much) on things like McKenzie being a healthy scratch against Philly; and Gore/Singletary getting a combined 12 carries in the same game ... and continuing to run Gore up the gut when Singletary was effective all day .... and inexplicably stopping throwing the ball to Knox.

 

Just too many head-scratchers. 

 

I don't want him to be fired.  I want consistency with the coaching staff for as long as we can enjoy it.  But I honestly feel that these ridiculous changes in game-plan (within the same game) are throwing off any kind of groove Josh Allen and the entire offense are getting into.

 

I find it difficult to overlook that simply because he's doing other things well.

I'd always be careful about reading too much into scratches. A lot of injuries never get reported. 

Edited November 6, 2019 by dave mcbride

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Reed83HOF said:

 

Gaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!! some things can not be un-Seen

[Buffalo716]

Daboll isn't horrible but he isn't amazing

 

And in pretty sure wood is on the bills payroll so he will always be pretty positive

[Reed83HOF]

2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Gaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!! some things can not be un-Seen

By the time I get to some of the threads lately, they already have all of my points and thoughts stated and there is no point rehashing them, so my contributions become this 

[stony]

Daboll's done fine by me.  I think I gave him a "B" in another thread.  

 

We're still pretty limited on that side of the ball IMO.  O-Line still a bit shoddy, young QB, still only 2 legit NFL WRs.  One more offseason before I can really judge him.  But overall, signs are encouraging.   

[Hapless Bills Fan]

10 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Daboll isn't horrible but he isn't amazing

 

And in pretty sure wood is on the bills payroll so he will always be pretty positive

 

Daboll puzzles me still.   You and I talked about this some last year.

 

Daboll reminds me of the cartoon joke showing a duck with a cluster of shots to his left, and another cluster of shots equally spaced to his right.

The caption is "statistically, the Duck is Dead"

 

There are times when I think his plays are well-drawn-up and work beautifully.

 

There are times when I'm yelling at the screen and the dog gets upset with me.

 

Did you catch the presser this week where he said each of the "and 1" goal line plays was different?  I haven't looked - that may be true - but I think it's too fine a distinction.  If your OL is getting their asses shoved back and handed to them, it doesn't matter if you call 3 different plays that rely on their asses to beat the other guys asses using a different pattern.  They're still going to get their asses shoved back and handed to them.

 

Wood is indeed on the Bills payroll.  So as I said elsewhere while I'm sure he speaks what he sees as truth, and nothing but the truth, I don't think he speaks all his truth.

 

[BillsFan692]

3 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

if you actually watch him breaking down film and explaining why hes running plays that setup other plays Then maybe you could see hes not some homer.

 

Daboll is not the problem and he's going to be here for along time, Player execution is and its only getting better.

 

I think people are so conditioned to losing and complaining about it they dont know how to do anything else and are looking for something to cry about even though we are winning and the offense is much better than last year.

 

 

I don't want daboll gone, everyone can learn from their mistakes the coaches and the players.

[Buffalo716]

16 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Daboll puzzles me still.   You and I talked about this some last year.

 

Daboll reminds me of the cartoon joke showing a duck with a cluster of shots to his left, and another cluster of shots equally spaced to his right.

The caption is "statistically, the Duck is Dead"

 

There are times when I think his plays are well-drawn-up and work beautifully.

 

There are times when I'm yelling at the screen and the dog gets upset with me.

 

Did you catch the presser this week where he said each of the "and 1" goal line plays was different?  I haven't looked - that may be true - but I think it's too fine a distinction.  If your OL is getting their asses shoved back and handed to them, it doesn't matter if you call 3 different plays that rely on their asses to beat the other guys asses using a different pattern.  They're still going to get their asses shoved back and handed to them.

 

Wood is indeed on the Bills payroll.  So as I said elsewhere while I'm sure he speaks what he sees as truth, and nothing but the truth, I don't think he speaks all his truth.

 

Yea I'll rewatch those 3 plays to see if I can pick up any nuances that are different....

 

I feel the same as you. Some games he gets in a good rhythm and I think he calls up a good mix of bread and butter plays with well timed misdirection plays

 

Then other games I feel like he is outthinking himself. I think he needs to get a bit more creative on 3rd and short and just try and get the ball to playmakers more

[london_bills]

8 hours ago, George C said:

Geez...

We’re not Cleveland. Let’s not fire everyone on a whim... Let them develop the team and the players for gods sake. 

Daboll is and should be our coordinator for the foreseeable future. 

Absolutely. Allen gets the season. The coaching staff get the season. So should Daboll. 

 

Why is a Allen capable of improving when showing good and bad but not Daboll? He's not getting fired

Edited November 6, 2019 by london_bills

[Herc11]

11 hours ago, stuvian said:

running Gore 3 x in a row on the goal line was real innovative

 

Ask Marshawn Lynch about passing on the goal line. 

 

Bottom line is, if he was passing at the goslline and didnt convert, people will b@tch and moan. Just like you are that he ran three times and didnt convert. If he scored on 3rd, would you be complaining? No.

 

Daboll called a play on 4th and scored, so really, who gives a rat's ass about 1-3.

[HeHateMe]

7 hours ago, TroutDog said:

It’s not a secret, it’s the SIMPLE fact of showing upcoming opponents as little of your O as possible when a game is already in hand. 
 

It is exceedingly basic and not sure how it’s hard to grasp. 

 

This is stupid... we are going to suddenly unleash fury a bunch of plays these guys have never run before in a game setting to perfection all of a sudden?  Later in the season it becomes about execution and not really about surprising anybody..  They shouldn't be saving anything that could get this offense going.

[Dr. K]

2 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

So, it’s the ‘Haves’ vs the Gugnyites, eh? 

Well here’s a little salt for your Cheerios, G’s; One team stands alone at the top of the stat sheet for RedZone efficiency (read Scoring), and It isn’t Brady & Belichek, Brees & Payton, Mahomes & Reid, Goff, Rodgers or Jimmy G.

 

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/red-zone-scoring-pct

 

-pretty damn effective traveling over 70 yards to get in the RedZone as well. Yet, they continue to be plagued by penalties and untimely dropped passes. Far from the experienced proficiency of the others mentioned, Buffalo has NINE new players starting on Offense from the start of ‘18. That’s  9. Count ‘em. NINE! Barreling down the field almost at will and punching it their face AND the into the Endzone! They’re doing it with 3 rookies starting, a second year QB and castoffs at OL & WR.

 

jmo, but it’s pretty juvenile to think the OC sucks and should be replaced.

This

[london_bills]

6 minutes ago, Dr. K said:

 

 

2 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

So, it’s the ‘Haves’ vs the Gugnyites, eh? 

Well here’s a little salt for your Cheerios, G’s; One team stands alone at the top of the stat sheet for RedZone efficiency (read Scoring), and It isn’t Brady & Belichek, Brees & Payton, Mahomes & Reid, Goff, Rodgers or Jimmy G.

 

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/red-zone-scoring-pct

 

-pretty damn effective traveling over 70 yards to get in the RedZone as well. Yet, they continue to be plagued by penalties and untimely dropped passes. Far from the experienced proficiency of the others mentioned, Buffalo has NINE new players starting on Offense from the start of ‘18. That’s  9. Count ‘em. NINE! Barreling down the field almost at will and punching it their face AND the into the Endzone! They’re doing it with 3 rookies starting, a second year QB and castoffs at OL & WR.

 

jmo, but it’s pretty juvenile to think the OC sucks and should be replaced.

Great point. 

Edited November 6, 2019 by london_bills

[Dr. K]

1 hour ago, london_bills said:

Great point. 

Thanks. I'm known for my eloquence.

Edited November 6, 2019 by Dr. K

[Chandler#81]

8 minutes ago, Dr. K said:

Thanks. I'm know for my eloquence.

um..?

[JESSEFEFFER]

Given all their offensive challenges, their RedZone performance is not an accident.  Daboll has to be doing something right.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

39 minutes ago, london_bills said:

Absolutely. Allen gets the season. The coaching staff get the season. So should Daboll. 

 

Why is a Allen capable of improving when showing good and bad but not Daboll? He's not getting fired

 

I completely hope Daboll is capable of improving and that he's in the right place with the right coaches and players around him who can help him do it.

I think in another post a bit ago I pointed to two SB winning OCs (Gilbride and Martz) who seemed to benefit by having a HC "sanity check" their playcalling.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Gaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!! some things can not be un-Seen

 

 

...heard the Smuckers is marketing his "Toe Jam" for your morning toast....enjoy..............

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 minute ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

...heard the Smuckers is marketing his "Toe Jam" for your morning toast....enjoy..............

 

?

[HOUSE]

Daboll has his play maker (Singletary) back in the lineup. He was NOT completely healthy till the Washington game. IF Daboll can get him the ball more often then might recommend him as a head coach in Miami or maybe Washington, his choice

[london_bills]

22 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I completely hope Daboll is capable of improving and that he's in the right place with the right coaches and players around him who can help him do it.

I think in another post a bit ago I pointed to two SB winning OCs (Gilbride and Martz) who seemed to benefit by having a HC "sanity check" their playcalling.

Mcdermott will know how much worse he will look if he sacks another OC. 

 

Anyone else think mckenzie being active is important for this offence? The speed helps!! 

Edited November 6, 2019 by london_bills

[stony]

27 minutes ago, JESSEFEFFER said:

Given all their offensive challenges, their RedZone performance is not an accident.  Daboll has to be doing something right.

Good shout.

 

Also imagine if they didn't go power formation inside the 3 every time?  It's really my only complaint with Daboll.   Spread it out and then run it!!!   And to be fair, after three straight Gore runs, the next time down on the DS score, they did spread it out.  

[london_bills]

1 minute ago, stony said:

Good shout.

 

Also imagine if they didn't go power formation inside the 3 every time?  It's really my only complaint with Daboll.   Spread it out and then run it!!!   And to be fair, after three straight Gore runs, the next time down on the DS score, they did spread it out.  

If you are coaching a team and you run the ball on the one yard line and it doesn't go in, there is a school of thought to say 'we should be executing this play, so we try again' . During the week they can address the fact it didn't go in when running up the middle, good thing is they scored on the drive. In the same way that Allen can improve, if they can improve these runs up the middle then they will get better as an offence. 

38 minutes ago, JESSEFEFFER said:

Given all their offensive challenges, their RedZone performance is not an accident.  Daboll has to be doing something right.

If your number one in red zone offence in the league then your OC is doing well. That's a playoff caliber strike rate when in the 20.

[stony]

1 minute ago, london_bills said:

If you are coaching a team and you run the ball on the one yard line and it doesn't go in, there is a school of thought to say 'we should be executing this play, so we try again' . During the week they can address the fact it didn't go in when running up the middle, good thing is they scored on the drive. In the same way that Allen can improve, if they can improve these runs up the middle then they will get better as an offence. 

Right.  And my only gripe is, run it up the middle against 7 guys and not 9.  

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

...sorry (FWIW) but EXCELLENT i s a bit over the top.......if EXCELLENT pervades , why one year stops on his resume', with the Cleveland stint being 2 years with Mangini?....who lets excellence escape?......he is very inconsistent and has relied too heavily on Josh to bail him put particularly in the run game.....we are far from innovative & creative game plans matching up well versus the opposition....sure the Allen kid has skills, but being the weekly leading rusher connotes long term career viability?....ok so last year he got a pass because it was "the personnel stupid".......so tell me how Singeltary goes from the Witness Protection Program to nominee for "Offensive Player of the Week"?.....this guy has a LONG way to go as a long term viable OC.....and the fear mongers about losing him to the HC ranks?......um...ok........

[TroutDog]

1 hour ago, HeHateMe said:

 

This is stupid... we are going to suddenly unleash fury a bunch of plays these guys have never run before in a game setting to perfection all of a sudden?  Later in the season it becomes about execution and not really about surprising anybody..  They shouldn't be saving anything that could get this offense going.

That argument would be awesome if they never practiced the plays before. That’s NOT what is being stated. 

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Buffalo716 said:

Yea I'll rewatch those 3 plays to see if I can pick up any nuances that are different....

 

The 1st run is definitely different than the others. It looks like they try and get the flow one way and Gore sneaks in. The 2nd and look carb and copy HB dive plays. 

[Turk71]

30 minutes ago, london_bills said:

 

If your number one in red zone offence in the league then your OC is doing well. That's a playoff caliber strike rate when in the 20.

Their red zone offense is #1 by td%/opportunity, which is a good thing; especially when you consider they don't get very many opportunities. They are tied for 28th in red zone opp. Not good!  Red zone % is all well and good, but scoring points is the true measure of success on offense. The Bills are 22nd in the league.

[london_bills]

4 minutes ago, Turk71 said:

Their red zone offense is #1 by td%/opportunity, which is a good thing; especially when you consider they don't get very many opportunities. They are tied for 28th in red zone opp. Not good!  Red zone % is all well and good, but scoring points is the true measure of success on offense. The Bills are 22nd in the league.

Yep. The %/opportunity gives some reason for optimism as well as 4th qtr allen. Let's see if they both continue. 

[Bflags]

How about the Eagles game where the wind was 30mph and up gusting and the game plan called for 12 runs from RBs and 34 passes? This is a team that has to win with ball control, field position, and keeping 3rd downs to 3rd and shorts / 3rd and medium's. I agree he can be creative at times but sometimes it seems that they are trying to do more than the talent / personnel allow...

[Augie]

I just hope having Singletary in there more makes his play calling look MUCH better! That’s a shifty little dude, and he’s fun to watch! 

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

Daboll has games where he calls a really good game and he has games where he looks horrid. I understand that drawing up a play in the film room and then having that play executed on the football field is difficult. We have so many new players on offense and it’s going to take some more time before they gel. I think we are right around that point in time where this offense starts putting up points.

 

 

[Orlando Tim]

I defended Daboll earlier for his overall performance but he should be ripped for repeatedly running Allen. That is only thing he has done that is STUPID and should never be done except for situations where we need the yards for a chance to win.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Bflags said:

How about the Eagles game where the wind was 30mph and up gusting and the game plan called for 12 runs from RBs and 34 passes? This is a team that has to win with ball control, field position, and keeping 3rd downs to 3rd and shorts / 3rd and medium's. I agree he can be creative at times but sometimes it seems that they are trying to do more than the talent / personnel allow...

 

I think the Iggles game was a case of Daboll off in an ivory tower meticulously analyzing the opponent and failing to glance at a meteorology report

In principle, a pass-heavy game exploited the Iggles defensive weakness.  In practice, it was a dumb plan for a wet, gusty, extremely windy day.

 

44 minutes ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

Daboll has games where he calls a really good game and he has games where he looks horrid. I understand that drawing up a play in the film room and then having that play executed on the football field is difficult. We have so many new players on offense and it’s going to take some more time before they gel. I think we are right around that point in time where this offense starts putting up points.

 

I hope you're right. 

 

 

[apuszczalowski]

Dayboll as OC this season of the Bills has a record of 6-2, the Bills are winning

 

Nuff said, close this thread, or does the Bills record only apply to players people like?

[Jrb1979]

45 minutes ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

Daboll has games where he calls a really good game and he has games where he looks horrid. I understand that drawing up a play in the film room and then having that play executed on the football field is difficult. We have so many new players on offense and it’s going to take some more time before they gel. I think we are right around that point in time where this offense starts putting up points.

 

 

Putting up points is all well and good but it's hard to do when the coach wants to play a ball control system that doesn't look for big yard plays often enough. The way the rules favor the offense the Bills should be going for 20 yard passes more then they do. How come other teams, even the Dolphins, manage to have a few big yard plays a game but the Bills believe in short passing plays to get down the field?  

 

Just once I would love to see the Bills be aggressive on offense and not wait til the 4th qtr.