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Daboll is an excellent play caller

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1 hour ago, Gugny said:

I'm a Daboll critic.  I think he has shown that he's capable of calling excellent plays, but the headscratchers are mounting by the week.  He either misuses or under-utilizes players too many times each week.  We've all seen Allen in a groove.  He's fierce.  Too many times (last week's first TD drive, for instance), Daboll will call perfect plays, the players will execute and a beautiful drive ends in 7 .... then he abandons everything that worked in that drive, for the rest of the game.  Get Josh in a groove and keep Josh in the groove.  Daboll isn't doing that.

 

In an otherwise decent post, I'd like to ask why, "fans," is in quotation marks.  Daboll's got some good in him and I respect those who think he's doing a fine job.  We are, after all, 6-2.

 

To insinuate that Daboll critics aren't real fans is a pretty juvenile take.  Some fans are very happy with the current state of the Bills because they're 6-2.  Some of those fans are very happy, but still want necessary improvements to be made .... and there's nothing wrong with that.

 

 

 

 

There's a world of difference between an honest evaluation of the positive and negative of Daboll's game such as yours, and the drunken rage filled vitriol expressed by a number of posters demanding Daboll be fired last Sunday for his performance against Washington. 

The next 8 games are going to tell us a lot about a number of things. None of us really know who is going to improve and rise to the occasion, and who is going to regress. I'm excited to see how it all plays out, and we have the entire off season to talk about the next steps the team needs to make to improve. 

 

What I'd like to see from Daboll is more consistency in his play calling, exploit what is working and getting the ball more into the hands of Smoke, Motor, Bease. I'll wait until the end of the season to makeup my mind whether I think the Bills should bring Daboll back. 

Edited by Motorin'
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15 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

I agree with you, but I will say this, even after a win the whiners whine, and there is no mention of the win, or what was done well in their posts, and it’s not an occasional thing, it’s virtually every time they post. Yes it is totally obvious the team needs improvement, and everyone already knows this, but an ada boy now and then would be cool, don’t ya think?

 

Go Bills!!!

 

Absolutely!!  Credit should be given when due ... and there is credit due in EVERY win.

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3 hours ago, stuvian said:

running Gore 3 x in a row on the goal line was real innovative


This was discussed on WGR yesterday and they said they are not showing any spread now as to limit what upcoming opponents see. Makes sense. 
 

Also, I must admit I trust recent former professional players over someone on a message board. Doesn’t that make sense?

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2 minutes ago, TroutDog said:


This was discussed on WGR yesterday and they said they are not showing any spread now as to limit what upcoming opponents see. Makes sense. 
 

Also, I must admit I trust recent former professional players over someone on a message board. Doesn’t that make sense?

I’ve heard that theory before, but common sense makes me question the validity. What are we saving our “secret” offense for? Are we waiting for the Super Bowl? I mean, an NFL team needs to run their offense, and learn how to play in it. “Hiding” an offense just doesn’t make much sense to me. I understand that during the preseason, but that doesn’t make sense during the regular season imo. 

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1 minute ago, SirAndrew said:

I’ve heard that theory before, but common sense makes me question the validity. What are we saving our “secret” offense for? Are we waiting for the Super Bowl? I mean, an NFL team needs to run their offense, and learn how to play in it. “Hiding” an offense just doesn’t make much sense to me. I understand that during the preseason, but that doesn’t make sense during the regular season imo. 


It’s not a secret, it’s the SIMPLE fact of showing upcoming opponents as little of your O as possible when a game is already in hand. 
 

It is exceedingly basic and not sure how it’s hard to grasp. 

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3 minutes ago, SirAndrew said:

I’ve heard that theory before, but common sense makes me question the validity. What are we saving our “secret” offense for? Are we waiting for the Super Bowl? I mean, an NFL team needs to run their offense, and learn how to play in it. “Hiding” an offense just doesn’t make much sense to me. I understand that during the preseason, but that doesn’t make sense during the regular season imo. 

I mostly agree. My opinion of a perfect offense is one where you produce not when surprising the defense, but when the defense knew what was coming and we still find a mismatch. In the NFL you can't surprise a defense for much longer than a single drive, and if we want sustainability we need to be able to consistently create mismatches out of the same formation.

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3 hours ago, stuvian said:

running Gore 3 x in a row on the goal line was real innovative

 

People keep bringing this up. But I read that sequence as a challenge to the offensive line. That situation is one where you expect that, even with the defense know what is coming, your offensive line can plow the path.  If they get it, that is a huge moral booster. Unfortunately, they just didn't get it.  In any event, its not about scheme there. Its about the challenge. 

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Tasker said yesterday on OBL that the 3 runs up the middle was them likely not willing to put a lot on tape against an inferior opponent with bigger games coming down the stretch, wonder how much validity there is to that.

 

Probably none because it came from Tasker.

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I think Daboll is doing fine.

 

The last thing Allen and this franchise needs is another change in offensive coordinator/scheme.

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29 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

There's a world of difference between an honest evaluation of the positive and negative of Daboll's game such as yours, and the drunken rage filled vitriol expressed by a number of posters demanding Daboll be fired last Sunday for his performance against Washington. 

The next 8 games are going to tell us a lot about a number of things. None of us really know who is going to improve and rise to the occasion, and who is going to regress. I'm excited to see how it all plays out, and we have the entire off season to talk about the next steps the team needs to make to improve. 

 

What I'd like to see from Daboll is more consistency in his play calling, exploit what is working and getting the ball more into the hands of Smoke, Motor, Bease. I'll wait until the end of the season to makeup my mind whether I think the Bills should bring Daboll back. 

 

As a rule, I don't respect two opinions when it comes to OC evaluation: 

 

1. We need to run/pass more! This shows you don't understand the complexity of NFL offenses. 

 

2. Look at the final score! There are so many moving pieces, and so many variables. 

 

There is so much nuance to being an OC, and so much depends on that guys relationship with the QB.  The big things I look at are is the run game working? Is the QB improving? And, are there guys running free in the passing game.  If the answer is yes, all the pieces are there and we just need to work on execution.  But, you expect execution to a problem when you are returning two starters and your QB is a second year project QB. 

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I think there can be a distinction between play designer and play caller.  I think Dabol is actually a great play designer, and I think he is an OK play caller.   As a play caller he can make some great calls and then he will have moments of what are we doing, or he tries to get to cute?  I wonder now that Josh is improving his short game and getting a better handle on the offense, if perhaps he should head back upstairs as some people on this board have suggested.  Let Dorsey deal with Josh on the sidelines.  Perhaps with Dabol upstairs with a birds eye view, he can match is play designs with play calling much better.

Edited by Lieutenant Aldo Raine
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The Eagles blowout was directly attributable to Daboll's game plan, which was to saddle up Josh and eschew the run, giving Josh the rock 42 times, Gore/Singletary only 12.  And don't give me "the game was out of hand" crap.  We were within 2 scores until the 4th QTR, so Daboll abandoning the run in the 2nd half was indefensible.  

 

He did appear to learn from that mistake by finally unwrapping Motor, and feeding him the rock all day long against the Skins.  Let's hope Daboll can stay on that path, and realize that Josh is not ready to carry the load yet.  I'm not sold that he can.  Josh is a shiny toy, and Daboll's like a kid who monopolizes his play time with that toy.  Mix Mr. Potatohead and Slinky Dog in with Buzz Lightyear, Dabes.

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4 hours ago, stuvian said:

running Gore 3 x in a row on the goal line was real innovative

 

I won't lie, first 2 times I was like "hand that effing ball off" 🤷‍♂️

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Constantly handing off to Gore in short yardage over and over when it doesn't work is BEYOND stupid. And then when Gore breaks out with a good run, he goes to the bench the next play. HE IS TERRIBLE!

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I'm not sold on him yet, but I also haven't given up on him yet either. He has a lot more to prove though imo.

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3 hours ago, CommonCents said:

He eliminated the QB runs last week and started Singletary. I think some of that came from the HC. The team is better off. 

 

I’m fine with him now as long as it stays this way. 

You do bring up a good point, we don’t know exactly how much input McDermott has. My gut from watching the games is Sean appears to be following along on play calling during the offense with a head set and play sheet. I don’t recall seeing him do this in past seasons, I can be 100% wrong. 

My connecting of dots thinks that Sean does prefer Vets at times to the unproven rookies, Singletary and Knox for example. There could be multiple reasons why, one being, snap count management for rookies. Is the HC asking for Gore in short yardage?  After last week I hope Daboll and McDermott saw enough to believe Singletary needs to be the go to guy and Gore is the breather back.  

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Just like his players, Daboll is inconsistent. 

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4 hours ago, ProcessTruster said:

wait... all you fair weather fans wanted him fired 7 days ago... well I guess it is a fan board.  If they lose this Sunday , you'll be firing him a week from today

 

trust the process


Pssst!

 

Imma tell you secret.  There’s no hive mind.

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4 hours ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

I’ve been watching football for 40 years and played for 10 years. My biggest gripe with Daboll is his use of personnel. Example-using DiMarco on a 30 yard wheel route down the sideline where Patrick would of had to make an over the shoulder catch. I have never seen DiMarco make a catch like this ever, and I live in Atlanta and watch the Falcons a ton. 

As for his play calling it’s frustrating at times to watch him not abandon something a little sooner when it isn’t working, the Gore short yardage is becoming ineffective. On the flip side not using Beasley more has been a head scratcher. 

While Daboll isn’t the worst out there he also isn’t the best. I still don’t like him becoming so emotional while trying to coach Josh during the game. Daboll isn’t going anywhere for this season so I hope he gets better as he learns all what everyone is good at. I do give Daboll a bit of a pass because he is working with so many new players on offense. 

Yeppers!!!

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2 hours ago, offyourocker said:

 

I was super frustrated when it happened.  But after sleeping on it, this is where your line has to win.  Good teams can do this and break through.  Nothing more frustrating for a defense then being beaten when you know what they are doing.

Like Philly driving into the wind when everyone knew it was going to be ground and pound?

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2 hours ago, offyourocker said:

 

I was super frustrated when it happened.  But after sleeping on it, this is where your line has to win.  Good teams can do this and break through.  Nothing more frustrating for a defense then being beaten when you know what they are doing.

I had zero problems with running 3 times up the gut there, 1st and goal at the one... you should be able to get a yard...

Give the offense line a chance to push them back... they didn't.  No big deal.

 

My problem with Daboll's playcalling was more in the second half when we went into shell mode...  We need to distribute the ball around more, at different levels.

We are running ok vs. Washington, but a good playcaller knows.. 'Hey were up by 10 points, they are going to come out and try to stop the run. We need to take advantage of that.'

 

Play action pass to intermediate zone of the field, not a screen pass and not a bomb. A nice 10-20 yard comebacker or slant.  This keeps the defense off balanced and will keep the run open.

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2 hours ago, TroutDog said:


This was discussed on WGR yesterday and they said they are not showing any spread now as to limit what upcoming opponents see. Makes sense. 
 

Also, I must admit I trust recent former professional players over someone on a message board. Doesn’t that make sense?

It's been said that Bellicheck does stuff like this to balance out tendencies in certain situations, but he does that in garbage time when his team has already won the game handily, not when the game is still in question.

 

I think all of us are 100% behind the Bills, but we have played weak competition and we are squeaking by because of our defense.  We cannot rely only on the defense to win the games.  That is why most Bills fans are upset/concerned.  We should have destroyed Washington.  We didn't.  IMO, the players executed pretty well on offense vs. Washington.... They ran the plays they were given... That's why I blame the playcalling for holding back this offense.    

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4 hours ago, Gugny said:

I'm a Daboll critic.  I think he has shown that he's capable of calling excellent plays, but the headscratchers are mounting by the week.  He either misuses or under-utilizes players too many times each week.  We've all seen Allen in a groove.  He's fierce.  Too many times (last week's first TD drive, for instance), Daboll will call perfect plays, the players will execute and a beautiful drive ends in 7 .... then he abandons everything that worked in that drive, for the rest of the game.  Get Josh in a groove and keep Josh in the groove.  Daboll isn't doing that.

 

In an otherwise decent post, I'd like to ask why, "fans," is in quotation marks.  Daboll's got some good in him and I respect those who think he's doing a fine job.  We are, after all, 6-2.

 

To insinuate that Daboll critics aren't real fans is a pretty juvenile take.  Some fans are very happy with the current state of the Bills because they're 6-2.  Some of those fans are very happy, but still want necessary improvements to be made .... and there's nothing wrong with that.

 

 

 

 

It's the bi-polar nature of this board.

 

The truth is always in the middle somewhere in shades of grey, not black and white and there are plenty of folks keeping it real, and providing course-correction. I have a few repeat customers that definitely keep me honest if and when they spot any misinformation from me.

 

But speaking in absolutes is more confrontational and is the click-bait that drives a lot of the dialogue. 

 

"He will never..."

"He always..."

 

I respect Wood as he has played the game, but to be balanced if we are going to give credit to Daboll for his creativity when it works, we also have to point out that it is his responsibility when the offense sputters.

 

That may be the execution and not the play called, but he is responsible for ensuring that both work. I do think Allen will be a better QB for having been in a creative offense even if all the pieces are not clicking yet.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, hjnick said:

It's been said that Bellicheck does stuff like this to balance out tendencies in certain situations, but he does that in garbage time when his team has already won the game handily, not when the game is still in question.

 

I think all of us are 100% behind the Bills, but we have played weak competition and we are squeaking by because of our defense.  We cannot rely only on the defense to win the games.  That is why most Bills fans are upset/concerned.  We should have destroyed Washington.  We didn't.  IMO, the players executed pretty well on offense vs. Washington.... They ran the plays they were given... That's why I blame the playcalling for holding back this offense.    


We beat them by 15, the second largest margin of victory on Sunday. In addition, neither the Pats*** or Niners have beaten anyone either. 
 

Believe whatever you’d like, but it makes perfect sense to me and, personally, I’ll listen to a smart man a year removed from a decade long career above others. 

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