Buffalo Junction Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 1 minute ago, BuffaloHokie13 said: In the first half I was having flashbacks to 'bad' Roman. I get that motions and gadgets can be handy, but they should never be the meat & potatoes of your plan. I think some of those motions were inserted to help Allen recognize coverages and the gadgets may have been added to keep those from being predictable. At least none of them got blown up like the fish’s Gadget pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 6 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: This. Hokie, have you looked at the film yet? Look at Daboll's play calling and the blocking design in the first few series and tell me what you think. For me there's some flashback moments to last year where I wish I could (figuratively, 'cuz he could smash me like a buuuug) grab Daboll by the ears and yell "KISS! KISS damn your eyes KISS! (and I'm not talking smoochies) I am absolutely with you on this. I was beyond scratching my head as the NE game unfolded. It was as if he chose to try to exploit NE's primary strengths rather than weaknesses. The gameplan he had in Tenn is exactly what he should have doen with NE. Early in yesterday's game, it was as if he wanted to be overly creative against a bad defensive team... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Finkel Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 25 minutes ago, PlayoffsPlease said: After seeing Josh Allen's first performance in pre-season last year, I started a thread title "For the love of God, just name Josh Allen the starter" (Mods later changed thread title). To me Allen is the most likable guy in the NFL, and the most fun to watch. I so much want him to succeed. Yesterday's game troubled me quite a bit. With two weeks to prepare for the worst team in the NFL, Singletary back, a upgraded receiving corp including glue hands Duke Williams and Tyler Kroft active, I expected the offense to be hitting on nearly all cylinders. it appears to me now that Allen and Daboll are simply not a good combination. Daboll seems to be committed to developing Allen to play in the Daboll system rather than developing a system to optimize Allen's considerable physical skills. At this point I am not sure they will be successful together. There is a legitimate school of thought to say that there is a proper way to play NFL QB and Allen needs to learn that. At the same time I think it is legitimate to say that some teams have been successful (Russell Williams) adapting an offense to take advantage of a particular QBs skill set. I am not sure which is right. I will say that I think Daboll's offense would work identically well with Jared Goff as our QB, and I think that leaves a lot of Josh Allen's skill set unused. I don't want to turn Allen into Goff. No matter what offense Josh plays in he will have accuracy issues. He had them in college and still has them. I thought pro coaches could help him but it hasn’t happened. I know his accuracy percentage is up but he still has not developed accuracy with his long ball. He still has head scratching misses on some shorter passes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrbojanglezs Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 Josh has been playing good last 2 weeks except not hitting the deep balls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WideNine Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 I have been concerned since they drafted him, but he was green, I don't think we have seen his ceiling yet and at game 17 he is actually further along than I thought he would be. I expected disaster with him behind center last year, and if they did start him, I expected a run heavy, ball control offense that shielded him while he was training on the job. On this team (if he can protect the ball and move the chains), we usually have a shot at winning. Give it time, I wanted to see the turnovers go down, they have, completions go up, they have, but now it's the deep shots and being in sync with his speedsters. We will keep moving the goal posts and if he is making progress I would expect that to happen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 8 minutes ago, DasNootz said: I've re-watched the game and I think Allen was just fine. He didn't put up 300, but he did what he was asked to do. He threw behind Beasely early in the game and missed on the two deep balls - outside of that he did well. He didn't have enough pass attempts to put up the huge stats that everyone wants to see without hitting a deep ball. Knox drop alone cost him 4% in his completion percentage and probably 15-20 yards. Beasely didn't come up with a very catchable ball on an out as well - which won't go down as a drop on the stat sheet but most NFL WRs would have come up with it. Would have, could have, should have... I get it - but if both players made those routine plays, his stat line reads 18/26 (69%) for 240, 2 TDs 0 INTs and 32 yards rushing on 4 carries. I'll take that. I'll call it here - next week he'll have his 300 yards passing. I thought he came through big time yesterday when it counted too, but one of the reasons he's not sniffing 300 yards is that he's been incapable of throwing an accurate deep ball all season. That has to change. It's one of the most basic skills requirements of even a replacement-level NFL QB. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 Just now, Ray Finkel said: No matter what offense Josh plays in he will have accuracy issues. He had them in college and still has them. I thought pro coaches could help him but it hasn’t happened. I know his accuracy percentage is up but he still has not developed accuracy with his long ball. He still has head scratching misses on some shorter passes. Will this never end... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 1 minute ago, Buffalo Junction said: I think some of those motions were inserted to help Allen recognize coverages and the gadgets may have been added to keep those from being predictable. At least none of them got blown up like the fish’s Gadget pass. It definitely could have been worse, but I think some of the misdirection actually threw off our timing and disrupted overall production. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 Just now, billsfan1959 said: Will this never end... No, because most bills fans are low-information. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 11 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said: Daboll is a real headscratcher to me. He's GOT to realize up-tempo has worked well for this team, yet he rarely uses it. He makes Singletary disappear single-handedly. I don't understand his thought process most of the time. Oh, no, now here you exaggerate. He had big-time help from Josh Allen on that. Watch the film. Maybe they should put one of those air-filled wavy action figures on Motor's helmet that he can pull a cord to inflate at times to get Allen's attention. Allen: "Damn, nothing there, gotta tuck it and truck it" Singletary: "Yo hooo! Yoo hooo Josh over here!" Allen: "Damn, gotta tuck it and truck it again" Singletary: "Show a brotha some love! What's a lonely RB at the checkdown stand gotta do, post on Tinder?" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 32 minutes ago, PlayoffsPlease said: Yesterday's game troubled me quite a bit. With two weeks to prepare for the worst team in the NFL, Singletary back, a upgraded receiving corp including glue hands Duke Williams and Tyler Kroft active, I expected the offense to be hitting on nearly all cylinders. You expected a group of guys who have never played a single game together to be 'hitting on all cylinders'? 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 The one concern I have is Josh’s failure to recognize obvious cover zero and hot route. There’s a question if he is being coached through his mistakes well enough or if he is not responding to the coaching. He saw that same formation 3-4 times vs the Pats, and just watching him, you just knew he was getting sacked. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 Need to see him stack together 4 solid quarters, preferably against a good team. Also want to see him process blitzes more quickly. There were plays yesterday where he seemed to identify the hot read correctly, but then he refused to throw it there, and instead patted the ball or ran around in a panic until he was sacked. Didn't like that. But overall, hard not to still have a "Buy" rating on the guy. When he's on, he's elite. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 Not seeing this at all. Josh played pretty well. And he and Daboll appear a nice match. Josh is still young, and has a lot to learn. Comparing him to the young Russell Wilson is missing that Wilson was much much more NFL-ready when he came in the league. And while our running game this year is pretty good, it doesn't compare to the Seattle version back then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Junction Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 3 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said: It definitely could have been worse, but I think some of the misdirection actually threw off our timing and disrupted overall production. Probably. That’s the type of stuff that likely will get sorted as Allen gains more experience and the line plays together more. I wasn’t a huge fan of Spain missing A gap blitzes, and I assume some of those play calls are designed so Allen and Morse can change protections, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 Just now, Buffalo Junction said: Probably. That’s the type of stuff that likely will get sorted as Allen gains more experience and the line plays together more. I wasn’t a huge fan of Spain missing A gap blitzes, and I assume some of those play calls are designed so Allen and Morse can change protections, etc. ?♂️ At the end of the day we overcame whatever shortcomings were perceived or created. As long as Allen is learning and the O is Gelling I'm not going to get too worked up about it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 4 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said: I am absolutely with you on this. I was beyond scratching my head as the NE game unfolded. It was as if he chose to try to exploit NE's primary strengths rather than weaknesses. The gameplan he had in Tenn is exactly what he should have doen with NE. Early in yesterday's game, it was as if he wanted to be overly creative against a bad defensive team... That is exactly what I felt. I thought Daboll had scripted a bunch of cute stuff initially that he thought he could trial out against a team of pushovers and was slow to abandon it. To his defense, it was a few missed opportunities and some "not taking what the defense is giving you" away from working, but it still seemed too cute. I have totally mixed feelings about Daboll as well as Allen. Allen has youth and inexperience to excuse him. This is Daboll's 4th OC gig. At times, his play design and playcalling are excellent to even brilliant. At other times, I feel he is storing his cranium somewhere dark and moist and failing to craft games appropriately for a young, developing QB and an OL that has scarcely played together. Bobby Johnson >>> Juan Castillo but "Coach Scar" he ain't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 Bills Fans are the battered wives of the NFL: too damaged to leave and always in fear. You'd never know this team is 5-1 and winning games they should be winning. 2 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Junction Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 Just now, BuffaloHokie13 said: ?♂️ At the end of the day we overcame whatever shortcomings were perceived or created. As long as Allen is learning and the O is Gelling I'm not going to get too worked up about it. Neither am I. The kid keeps eliminating weaknesses in his game, and I honestly thought he’d be getting his first start now instead of his 17th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 Just now, IDBillzFan said: Bills Fans are the battered wives of the NFL: too damaged to leave and always in fear. You'd never know this team is 5-1 and winning games they should be winning. When you don’t come close to covering the spread, you underperformed relative to your expectations, record or no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 1 minute ago, IDBillzFan said: Bills Fans are the battered wives of the NFL: too damaged to leave and always in fear. You'd never know this team is 5-1 and winning games they should be winning. This guy gets it. I'd add to this that they're generally NOT football-smart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 Josh Allen is a solid starter he will never be a Top 10 QB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: That is exactly what I felt. I thought Daboll had scripted a bunch of cute stuff initially that he thought he could trial out against a team of pushovers and was slow to abandon it. To his defense, it was a few missed opportunities and some "not taking what the defense is giving you" away from working, but it still seemed too cute. I have totally mixed feelings about Daboll as well as Allen. Allen has youth and inexperience to excuse him. This is Daboll's 4th OC gig. At times, his play design and playcalling are excellent to even brilliant. At other times, I feel he is storing his cranium somewhere dark and moist and failing to craft games appropriately for a young, developing QB and an OL that has scarcely played together. Bobby Johnson >>> Juan Castillo but "Coach Scar" he ain't. Haahaa! Yeah, there are times I really wonder what is going on Daboll's head - there are moments I feel like he is demonstrating upper echelon OC abilities and moments wher I just go, WTF? Like you say, at least Allen can fall back on his youth and inexperience to explain those moments of not recognizing something or just making bone-headed mistakes 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WideNine Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 7 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said: Will this never end... I am going to have to go with probably not. Same crowd yammering for Barkley to start, then mysteriously lost their voice after watching him against NE. Same crowd that forgot what every journeyman QB looked like behind center for this team last year (the short time they were upright) before the coaches turned to Allen in desparation and he gave this team a spark. Is what it is, I concede that Allen needs to get better in areas, but he is this teams best option behind center. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 Never? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 Just now, papazoid said: Josh Allen is a solid starter he will never be a Top 10 QB Some here said that Tyrod was a TOP 10 QB and look how that turned out!!! As long as the Bills make the playoffs and Win ... I don't care if he's a top 10. (well I do but you know.) he could be Top 10 . Top 5 ... thats another story Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 3 minutes ago, papazoid said: Josh Allen is a solid starter he will never be a Top 10 QB If everything came together right I could certainly see him having a season like Cam's MVP season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 (edited) 23 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said: 25 minutes ago, Ray Finkel said: No matter what offense Josh plays in he will have accuracy issues. He had them in college and still has them. I thought pro coaches could help him but it hasn’t happened. I know his accuracy percentage is up but he still has not developed accuracy with his long ball. He still has head scratching misses on some shorter passes. Will this never end... about the same time Tranny's 62% completion rate thread ends Edited October 21, 2019 by SlimShady'sGhost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 4 minutes ago, papazoid said: Josh Allen is a solid starter he will never be a Top 10 QB Never is such a definitive adjective...so authoritative and unconditionally conclusive. You seem quite omniscient... Can you tell us what is going to happen in the stock market over the next few years? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said: Exactly, he just decided to register after all of these years to tell us Allen sucks... Or maybe he's not telling you the truth that he's never posted before. Folks, generally speaking - not cool. There are people who run sock puppets here and we recognize it and let it slide, as long as they don't abuse it or misrepresent themselves. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said: Or maybe he's not telling you the truth that he's never posted before. Folks, generally speaking - not cool. There are people who run sock puppets here and we recognize it and let it slide, as long as they don't abuse it or misrepresent themselves. Takes huevos to post on the same account for 20 years 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Protocal69 Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 32 minutes ago, DasNootz said: I've re-watched the game and I think Allen was just fine. He didn't put up 300, but he did what he was asked to do. He threw behind Beasely early in the game and missed on the two deep balls - outside of that he did well. He didn't have enough pass attempts to put up the huge stats that everyone wants to see without hitting a deep ball. Knox drop alone cost him 4% in his completion percentage and probably 15-20 yards. Beasely didn't come up with a very catchable ball on an out as well - which won't go down as a drop on the stat sheet but most NFL WRs would have come up with it. Would have, could have, should have... I get it - but if both players made those routine plays, his stat line reads 18/26 (69%) for 240, 2 TDs 0 INTs and 32 yards rushing on 4 carries. I'll take that. I'll call it here - next week he'll have his 300 yards passing. I was thinking the same thing regarding Allen 1st 300 game. I’ll add to that and say he will run for at least 75 yards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokebball Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 49 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said: right? The DEFENSE is the reason that game was close. They underperformed mightily. The O put up 24 points. I agree with this. We all knew it was the defense that won the first 4 games, and kept us in the NE game. Yesterday the offense won the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBillsFanSince1973 Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 why do threads like this or the ridiculous post come after a WIN A ***** WIN!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Who Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 I'm concerned about the folks who are concerned. Allen is getting better and will continue to get better over time. Not sure I can say that about some of these posters. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackFergy Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 I'm a little concerned with Jimmy Garrapolo...threw for 108 yds, no TD's and one INT. They should cut him and start looking for his replacement. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 josh played decently vs miami, i too am wondering where the long ball went. i do agree about dabol and josh tho. not as much that dabol isn't fitting his system to josh as much as i don't think he has a system. he's got so many formations and plays and he seems to dial up plays out of the blue without much feel for the game. i think that leaves us unprepared, as our horrible horrible pre snap penalties show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, FireChans said: When you don’t come close to covering the spread, you underperformed relative to your expectations, record or no. When you're 5-1 with a bunch of guys who are in their first year playing together, you've overperformed, regardless of how much Vegas thinks you should cover. And let's assume someone grabs Fitzmagic's fumble inside the 10 and runs it in...the Bills cover. Would that have changed your perception of them underperforming since they beat them by 17? 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 21 minutes ago, FireChans said: When you don’t come close to covering the spread, you underperformed relative to your expectations, record or no. (Psst. Let me tell you a secret: The spread doesn't count. Only wins and losses.) 1 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 20 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said: This guy gets it. I'd add to this that they're generally NOT football-smart. Oh, Gee, now we have the same "perfect" standard for fans as for our QB. I find Buffalo football fans to be in general among the most educated I encounter. I try to talk football with fans of other teams and they look at me as though I'm speaking in tongues. Yeah, we have our boneheads and our chicken littles but what team doesn't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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