TheFunPolice Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 Yes, let's set it up so NE can "miraculously" win the 1st overall pick in a draft lottery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Goat Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Nextmanup said: Typically those things are sorted out down the road. The important bit is having the right QB. I'd agree if they had a couple of cornerstones/pieces in place. They traded all of those away. He's going to get massacred. Edited September 19, 2019 by Golden Goat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albany,n.y. Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 Just now, dneveu said: And I don't even know if it was smart - They got more time out of Luck, but manning was a beast with denver and helped them win a super bowl (kind of... he wasn't particularly good the year they won) Also, Indy fired the coach & GM, so if they were truly tanking like Miami, they wouldn't have cleaned house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 8 minutes ago, Xwnyer said: If it was patriots doin it would be ignored that’s how the NFL works It would be talked about how genius of a move it is for them to do it..... As for Miami, it's almost impossible to prove they AREN'T tanking/wasting this season. Of course there is no actual rule saying you have to try to win every game, so technically they aren't doing anything illegal. The only way to penalize them would be loss of draft picks, but then there would have to be a specific rule in place for them to have broke (unless they go after them and say they are throwing games due to gambling) To prevent it, the league needs to do like the rest and have a lottery draft so the worst record doesn't guarantee the top spot. And if they really want teams to avoid it, get rid of the way other sports weigh the odds based on standings. Just say if you don't make the playoffs your in the draft lottery and let all teams have the same odds. You will get rid of the idea that some people have that the draft rewards failure and teams will atleady try to put winning teams on the field Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nextmanup Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 Just now, Golden Goat said: I agree if they had a couple of cornerstones/pieces in place. They traded all of those away. He's going to get massacred. Yeah but so did Troy Aikman, before he and the Cowboys went on to win 3 Super Bowls. That can get sorted in a few seasons. Look at the Bills personnel turnover in 2 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Goat Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 2 minutes ago, Nextmanup said: Yeah but so did Troy Aikman, before he and the Cowboys went on to win 3 Super Bowls. That can get sorted in a few seasons. Look at the Bills personnel turnover in 2 years. How does he survive a few seasons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mojo44 Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 4 minutes ago, Nextmanup said: Typically those things are sorted out down the road. The important bit is having the right QB. Even if they get to draft him, Tua might say. “ No way. Not there. Not going!” 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nextmanup Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 2 minutes ago, Golden Goat said: How does he survive a few seasons? The same way Aikman did. Are you old enough to remember the physical beating that guy took at the beginning of his career? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RochesterRob Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 The lottery invites its own shenanigans including putting the finger on the scale in favor of certain teams. Just limit the number of trades and high picks that a team can acquire in one cycle of the offseason and in season. Agree that nothing will come of this but will laugh if this investigation was started at the request of Bob Kraft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nextmanup Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 2 minutes ago, Mojo44 said: Even if they get to draft him, Tua might say. “ No way. Not there. Not going!” The odds of him putting on a Miami jersey, smiling, and going are much greater. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mojo44 Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 1 minute ago, Nextmanup said: The odds of him putting on a Miami jersey, smiling, and going are much greater. Greater than what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 1 minute ago, Nextmanup said: Yeah, but the league doesn't win if this backfires on the Miami organization and they remain lousy for a number of years due to the tank. They aren't concerned with preventing a successful Miami tank, they are concerned with the NFL's league wide image, and simply don't want this sort of thing to become the new norm around the league. But that's a contradiction. If Miami and it's tank leave them in purgatory for a number of seasons, what team would want to copy that? How many teams have traded their entire draft for a player like NO did years ago? None. IF Miami tanked fully a couple of years ago and had the 1st overall pick would they have drafted Trubisky, Mahomes or Watson? IF they drafted Mahomes and started him right away, would Mahomes have the kind of success that he has had OR could he have been ruined by a bad organization and team? IND tanking for Luck didn't get them to the Super Bowl either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Goat Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 3 minutes ago, Nextmanup said: The same way Aikman did. Are you old enough to remember the physical beating that guy took at the beginning of his career? You're comparing a college kid who has proven nothing at the NFL level to a HOFer. We're done here. ? Oh, and maybe cut down on the "are you old enough" crap. It makes you look like you're -- not old enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seven-N-Nine Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 20 minutes ago, Nextmanup said: This will be about trying to discourage teams from doing this in the future, I think, rather than taking punitive action against Miami. They want to get the word out that if you tank, you're going to have to deal with a lot of investigative hassle and BS, hoping it discourages teams from going this route. At least that's my theory. It just seems like if you're going to investigate, the public will expect penalties to be levied, and that any type of action taken against owners/teams has the potential to be very biased and may even have to do with the marketing value of the team in question. (say a Dallas tank vs. a Buffalo tank, it's in the best interest of the league monetarily for Dallas to get the better players vs. Buffalo, more TV $$$$ in the end). Just seems like a slippery slope that is destined to be unfair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory Formation Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 I have no problem with tanking for a year to secure a franchise QB, it’s part of the strategy of building a roster. I DO have a problem with tanking for multiple years like the Bills and Browns did for decades. Any owner that is looking just to ca$h in and is not committed to winning long term needs to gtfo of here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderstruck Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 25 minutes ago, SlimShady'sGhost said: I'd rather they look into Tom Brady and the NE Patriots nefarious deeds Odds are, Brady plays the rest of this year and then Mahomes suddenly develops a major attitude problem next offseason that will get him released by the Chiefs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RochesterRob Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 9 minutes ago, apuszczalowski said: It would be talked about how genius of a move it is for them to do it..... As for Miami, it's almost impossible to prove they AREN'T tanking/wasting this season. Of course there is no actual rule saying you have to try to win every game, so technically they aren't doing anything illegal. The only way to penalize them would be loss of draft picks, but then there would have to be a specific rule in place for them to have broke (unless they go after them and say they are throwing games due to gambling) To prevent it, the league needs to do like the rest and have a lottery draft so the worst record doesn't guarantee the top spot. And if they really want teams to avoid it, get rid of the way other sports weigh the odds based on standings. Just say if you don't make the playoffs your in the draft lottery and let all teams have the same odds. You will get rid of the idea that some people have that the draft rewards failure and teams will atleady try to put winning teams on the field I think gambling is at the root of the complaint against Miami. Probably some high rollers had their season laid out based on what Miami looked like post draft. Now all that is like paper blowing in the wind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 Why do people care? Whose to say what is the right way and wrong way to rebuild a franchise? Whose to say if coaches see certain players or not as guys that fit their plans, scheme, culture, and system? I think Miami is foolish for trading their young talents like Minkah and Tunsil. But it’s also just an opinion without having any sort of knowledge or reasoning from Miami’s side. End of of the day, they should be free to reboot and rebuild the way they best see fit. Competition committee should only be involved if someone is violating something. Trading players for first round picks violates nothing. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 34 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said: That they care about. Patriots potential tampering? meh. Yeah. One team can lie, cheat and steal all they want ...but let's investigate the team that sucks. Cause that's what's wrong with the league. Wtf world do we live in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 4 minutes ago, RochesterRob said: I think gambling is at the root of the complaint against Miami. Probably some high rollers had their season laid out based on what Miami looked like post draft. Now all that is like paper blowing in the wind. I don't think any serious high roller had money on Miami going into the season as winners. They were going to be bad, just not historically bad like the have been Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Say When... Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 3 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: Why do people care? Whose to say what is the right way and wrong way to rebuild a franchise? Whose to say if coaches see certain players or not as guys that fit their plans, scheme, culture, and system? I think Miami is foolish for trading their young talents like Minkah and Tunsil. But it’s also just an opinion without having any sort of knowledge or reasoning from Miami’s side. End of of the day, they should be free to reboot and rebuild the way they best see fit. Competition committee should only be involved if someone is violating something. Trading players for first round picks violates nothing. Tunsil was perplexing but the Minkah trade made zero sense to me, essentially they gain nothing as they still have a need at the position 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 4 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: Why do people care? Whose to say what is the right way and wrong way to rebuild a franchise? Whose to say if coaches see certain players or not as guys that fit their plans, scheme, culture, and system? I think Miami is foolish for trading their young talents like Minkah and Tunsil. But it’s also just an opinion without having any sort of knowledge or reasoning from Miami’s side. End of of the day, they should be free to reboot and rebuild the way they best see fit. Competition committee should only be involved if someone is violating something. Trading players for first round picks violates nothing. In some cases it matters and people care because they put down good money to attend games, and sponsors and TV. Stations put up good money to be represented by a team and to show the NFL product.. A competition committee can be involved because a team throwing a season away lowers the competition, the league also prides itself on 'Any given Sunday' and that in the NFL there always a chance your team could win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 1 minute ago, Say When... said: Tunsil was perplexing but the Minkah trade made zero sense to me, essentially they gain nothing as they still have a need at the position Minkah getting traded legit 1 year after getting drafted is bizarre to me. He was picked 11 last year, now you're getting... who knows in 2020? Stills is a #2 receiver - no point paying that guy, and if that helped get you any additional draft comp, good for them. He wasn't even particularly good - let alone someone thats getting you to the promised land. We all know whats going to happen.. it's miami! Splashy draft picks and burn through their considerable cap space to get to 6-10 or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerJ Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 Strip them of the first round picks they've obtained via trade. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RochesterRob Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 16 minutes ago, apuszczalowski said: I don't think any serious high roller had money on Miami going into the season as winners. They were going to be bad, just not historically bad like the have been It's not about winning but about identifying spreads and then determining if Miami could cover the spread in each game. It's about money and not about fandom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 Wait till they fire Flores after this season. That should be another investigation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 15 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: Why do people care? Whose to say what is the right way and wrong way to rebuild a franchise? Whose to say if coaches see certain players or not as guys that fit their plans, scheme, culture, and system? I think Miami is foolish for trading their young talents like Minkah and Tunsil. But it’s also just an opinion without having any sort of knowledge or reasoning from Miami’s side. End of of the day, they should be free to reboot and rebuild the way they best see fit. Competition committee should only be involved if someone is violating something. Trading players for first round picks violates nothing. I generally agree with you. Though the rules could be tweaked some. Limits on early round draft picks or adjustments to the number of compensatory picks. 7 minutes ago, apuszczalowski said: In some cases it matters and people care because they put down good money to attend games, and sponsors and TV. Stations put up good money to be represented by a team and to show the NFL product.. A competition committee can be involved because a team throwing a season away lowers the competition, the league also prides itself on 'Any given Sunday' and that in the NFL there always a chance your team could win. Fans can choose not to go to the games. As for league reaction, see above, the rules could be tweaked. Investigations and trying to prove how much a team is tanking would not work. Lottery for the NFL is a no go with me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket94 Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, mannc said: That's what makes it a tough case; it would be hard to argue that the Dolphins have been trading away their players without recouping fair value. The problem is that the value won't be realized until the future and in the meantime, there are 53 guys who have to take the field every week for the next three months. How true. For some of these players, their dreams of playing in NFL are being realized and they want to win. At the same time you have guys that want out and an organization giving up...so it seems. Edited September 19, 2019 by Rocket94 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 I think the league should embrace Miami's obvious tanking. "How bad can the Dolphins be?" is just about the most interesting and entertaining question in the sport right now. It's nice to have something to look forward to on Sundays again. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Blitz Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 Rosen named starter for Sunday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 They have to replace the young talent that just traded.....so they'll be back in the same spots. If they don't hit on a QB, it won't matter. Man, if they miss on the QB after this gigantic rebuild they're doing..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Blitz Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 Time to figure out if they destroyed their roster for nothing, hope they have a trade piece in Rosen, or continue to historically stink. https://twitter.com/CameronWolfe/status/1174776347413090309?s=19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 Actually this is simple- investigate. If clear evidence of an intentional tank is found, hard evidence, take their first round pick away. Make an an example of them. Teams will be more careful in the future 26 minutes ago, Rocket94 said: How true. For some of these players, their dreams of playing in NFL are being realized and they want to win. At the same time you have guys that want out and an organization giving up...so it seems. The upshot is a bunch of guys with no business on nfl rosters get to get their arses kicked on television. “Hi mom” ?♂️ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket94 Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 3 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: Actually this is simple- investigate. If clear evidence of an intentional tank is found, hard evidence, take their first round pick away. Make an an example of them. Teams will be more careful in the future The upshot is a bunch of guys with no business on nfl rosters get to get their arses kicked on television. “Hi mom” ?♂️ Yeah, that too! They have been exposed! Flushed out of their hiding spots! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MR8 Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 2 hours ago, ColoradoBills said: But that's a contradiction. If Miami and it's tank leave them in purgatory for a number of seasons, what team would want to copy that? How many teams have traded their entire draft for a player like NO did years ago? None. IF Miami tanked fully a couple of years ago and had the 1st overall pick would they have drafted Trubisky, Mahomes or Watson? IF they drafted Mahomes and started him right away, would Mahomes have the kind of success that he has had OR could he have been ruined by a bad organization and team? IND tanking for Luck didn't get them to the Super Bowl either. I would say in today's NFL, what the Texans gave up for Tunsil was an ASTRONOMICAL amount... and it's no anywhere near the NO trade for Ricky Williams. The more I read, I see people throwing out teams like Indy as an example of tanking working or people saying the Dolphins should or shouldn't be punished. My take is this: Indy tanked for Luck, we all know they did, and frankly most people were begging for the Bills and any other mediocre team to do the same. Did it work out? They got a franchise QB who was a generational talent, but they never properly built around him, and the absolute BEATING that man too as a result caused him to retire early before ever achieving what he COULD HAVE BEEN. I would argue that the Dolphins have put themselves in a similar risky spot, they traded away all their proven talent and now are reliant on draft picks to try and get better... as we all know that's risky. Who's to say they don't take the next Mike Williams to protect Tua's blind side and gets him killed? There are risks in what they're doing as well... The main complaint is that the Dolphins have upset the competitive balance of the league by intentionally getting rid of all their talented players for futures. Sooooo If the NFL is mad they're intentionally bad, can you explain how that is solved by the Dolphins being punished by having draft picks stripped away? They absolutely WILL NOT get better if the league strips them of the picks they got for these players... so they wont have the players, or the picks, and they'll be terrible so no FAs will want to go there. It's essentially a death sentence for a few years... Does the NFL want to create a team that will be a door mat to the rest of the league for the next few years? I highly doubt that, as it would upset the competitive balance of the league further. I see them giving a slap on the wrist to Miami, may take 1 pick and a salary cap penalty fine or something... then they'll change the rules about what teams can get in compensation: IE: You can't trade for 3+ first rounders in the same season or something to that effect. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasternOHBillsFan Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 2 hours ago, Nextmanup said: Considering this is a board that, for the most part, can't distinguish between "their," "they're," and "there," I would like to congratulate you on your use of the word "nefarious." Underused in my book. The puzzlewit possessor of the Miami club is trying to chisel the fans out of their case dough for football, and for me I think they need a gumshoe to find out who needs to be nailed by the league for this con. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigPappy Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 2 hours ago, SlimShady'sGhost said: I'd rather they look into Tom Brady and the NE Patriots nefarious deeds They can't. It would violate the back door dealing that Kraft, Bellicheat and Brady have with the the Commish and the Refs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills11 Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 2 hours ago, Albany,n.y. said: Actually they did. They signed Kerry Collins, who started 3 games, sucked, then got hurt, went on IR in late October & never played again. It's a myth they didn't try to get a viable NFL QB. It just didn't work out with Collins & then they were screwed because it was too late to get another potential starting QB, so they went with who was left on their roster. Kerry Collins was 39...in 2011 and finished Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 2 hours ago, apuszczalowski said: In some cases it matters and people care because they put down good money to attend games, and sponsors and TV. Stations put up good money to be represented by a team and to show the NFL product.. A competition committee can be involved because a team throwing a season away lowers the competition, the league also prides itself on 'Any given Sunday' and that in the NFL there always a chance your team could win. I hear what you are saying, but it also is best for an organization to build a winning franchise versus sticking in mediocrity or worse. One bad year to rebuild for 10 good years is worth more in the long run. Just my 2 cents though, and I actually dont really think Dolphins are doing a good job actually. I just think its their right to try what they think will get them on the up swing fastest. 2 hours ago, Say When... said: Tunsil was perplexing but the Minkah trade made zero sense to me, essentially they gain nothing as they still have a need at the position Yeah my thoughts exactly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figster Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 (edited) Tanking for Tua Toga is definitely not something I want to see happening in the AFC East. I'm just saying... Edited September 19, 2019 by Figster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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