John from Riverside Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 In a second year raw QB you look for improvements....and frankly I saw them I loved Josh Allen's emphasis to use his short game working his way down the field especially on that first drive...it didnt end in points but he was "taking what the defense gave him" and was efficient...... Its a process.....I just look for Josh to make improvements every week....it helps to have OL that block and receivers to throw to 20 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndirish1978 Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 Before I was concerned about his short to intermediate accuracy, not anymore. Josh needs to eliminate the hero balls and he'll be just fine. 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsbackto81 Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 Agreed, though I would have liked to see him uncork a couple deep shots to Brown or Foster. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VW82 Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 The biggest improvement I saw was in making quicker decisions. Josh left some plays on the field as a result but he made things easier on our o-line in the process. Also, there will surely be benefits to putting those quick decisions on tape. DCs are no longer going to be able to count on getting pressure rushing four which means we should see some better match ups and opportunities for big gains on hot routes. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah John Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 If the shorter throws are what the defense was giving, he should take them. I thought he played pretty well in the first half, except for the strip sack fumble. The two INTs were not his fault, his accuracy was good, and he threw it away when he had to. The fumble on fourth down didn't matter since the play wasn't going to work and it would have been a turnover either way. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoHuddleKelly12 Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 Such a point of emphasis during the offseason obviously, and nice to see that he is growing in his overall skillset--I just don't want him (or Coach Dabs) to forget where he came from and what electrified so many of us in the 2nd half of last year, his ability to quickly push the ball downfield. Balance, balance, balance! What an all-around weapon! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 6 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: In a second year raw QB you look for improvements....and frankly I saw them I loved Josh Allen's emphasis to use his short game working his way down the field especially on that first drive...it didnt end in points but he was "taking what the defense gave him" and was efficient...... Its a process.....I just look for Josh to make improvements every week....it helps to have OL that block and receivers to throw to You could see Allen making progressions and he was just firing it in there. I agree - I saw improvements. Big improvements. Upon watching it in slow motion, I do give Allen more fault for the Beasley INT than I did (I thought it was just a fluke). He had 3 Jets LBs lurking back there anticipating that throw, so it was less of a fluke and more of "going to the well too often" on that play. I don't like that play call there. Allen had just successfully escaped to throw the ball away (scored as Inc to Zay Jones) then had a bad strip sack where his LT got beaten like a drum and he tried to stiff arm him and escape instead of protecting the ball with both hands. He had (if I'm not mistaken) pretty much thrown that same pass to John Brown on the previous series, about 4-5 plays previous. The Jets predicted it and 3 of them were hanging there waiting. I give Allen credit for trying to put the ball low where a miss wouldn't wind up in the hands of a linebacker, but I don't think that was the best play call (maybe on Daboll) or the best read. Will see when I get the 22. I think Allen's clock was running fast from the previous 2 plays and he rushed his throw and put it a bit lower than it needed to be. I'm also suspecting there was a better read (because 3 Jets players were right there, musta been a hole somewhere else). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted September 9, 2019 Author Share Posted September 9, 2019 19 minutes ago, ndirish1978 said: Before I was concerned about his short to intermediate accuracy, not anymore. Josh needs to eliminate the hero balls and he'll be just fine. You could tell he REALLY wanted to make that throw across his body headed to the sideline (the throw that was intercepted in pre season) but didnt......I took that as a good sign 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 19 minutes ago, ndirish1978 said: Before I was concerned about his short to intermediate accuracy, not anymore. Josh needs to eliminate the hero balls and he'll be just fine. Im even ok with hero balls when the game calls for it just not arbitrarily and early when a game is close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 18 minutes ago, billsbackto81 said: Agreed, though I would have liked to see him uncork a couple deep shots to Brown or Foster. The OL was giving him a pocket, and he was using it, but he didn't have a lot of time (early on) to let the deep routes develop. That's the flip side of all those quick passes over the middle - the DL had decided on "no rush threat" and was pinning their ears back and going for Allen's throat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nextmanup Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 24 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: In a second year raw QB you look for improvements....and frankly I saw them I loved Josh Allen's emphasis to use his short game working his way down the field especially on that first drive...it didnt end in points but he was "taking what the defense gave him" and was efficient...... Its a process.....I just look for Josh to make improvements every week....it helps to have OL that block and receivers to throw to 24 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: In a second year raw QB you look for improvements....and frankly I saw them I loved Josh Allen's emphasis to use his short game working his way down the field especially on that first drive...it didnt end in points but he was "taking what the defense gave him" and was efficient...... Its a process.....I just look for Josh to make improvements every week....it helps to have OL that block and receivers to throw to Yeah but he made quite a few glaring errors that should have been erased from his game by now, if he were to improve with each week. No? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 23 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: I loved Josh Allen's emphasis to use his short game working his way down the field especially on that first drive...it didnt end in points but he was "taking what the defense gave him" and was efficient...... And one more thing. It sets up the counter trey (Thurman's bread and butter in the good old days). I think Singletary could be dynamic in that formation and we even saw a couple sprinkled into the second half play calls... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted September 9, 2019 Author Share Posted September 9, 2019 2 minutes ago, Nextmanup said: Yeah but he made quite a few glaring errors that should have been erased from his game by now, if he were to improve with each week. No? ........................ 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jletha Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 The way I see it the fumbles and the batted ball are things you want to avoid as a QB so yes, they are at least partially on him and because of them he didnt have a steller day overall. But...these types of turnovers are NOT the same type of turnovers people expected. When people talk about "Bad Josh" they mean wildly inaccurate throws, holding the ball too long, poor decision making, scrambling too quickly. If I were to tell you Josh had 4 turnovers in the first half before the game you would assume that one of them would have been because of those things but in fact none of them were. These turnovers, while annoying, are much much more easily corrected and avoided. That is why I am more optimistic. The typical traits of "Bad Josh" were only seen sparingly and THAT is progress people. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antonio Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 Yeah feel the same way. He is not a finish product, he will make mistakes every now and then. But I feel much better with him at QB that all the past QBs we had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jletha Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 4 minutes ago, Nextmanup said: Yeah but he made quite a few glaring errors that should have been erased from his game by now, if he were to improve with each week. No? Can you be more specific? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 I attribute some turnovers to basic football ineptitude. Other times when I see a turnover, I think, "Stuff happens." Our turnovers yesterday were mostly stuff. A normally good center muffs a snap - maybe because he's been on concussion protocol and hasn't developed a good rapport with the QB yet. A good WR deflects a ball he should have caught, resulting in a pick. Another pass gets deflected at the line of scrimmage. A normally good OL gets beat and the QB gets hit, resulting in a lost fumble. Stuff happens. Good teams overcome the stuff - and the Bills did. Like John, in between the stuff I was admiring the Allen's improvements. Last year, Allen had trouble with progressions, decision-making, and accuracy on short-to-medium passes. He looks like a different - better - QB this year. He demonstrated proficiency in areas where he was once weak. This win wasn't pretty. There will probably be a few more ugly games. But I think there will also be some games this season where Allen lights it up. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 17 minutes ago, Nextmanup said: Yeah but he made quite a few glaring errors that should have been erased from his game by now, if he were to improve with each week. No? Enlighten us.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 His biggest problem in the short game, imo, isn’t his accuracy. It’s his velocity. Catching lasers from JA is more difficult that catching lasers from other QBs. He needs to take some off it in certain situations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 6 minutes ago, NewEra said: His biggest problem in the short game, imo, isn’t his accuracy. It’s his velocity. Catching lasers from JA is more difficult that catching lasers from other QBs. He needs to take some off it in certain situations Its the NFL and these are professional receivers. IMO, I really didn't see any short throws that a receiver should have had trouble catching because of velocity, including the one that deflected off Beasley for an interception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
co_springs_billsfan Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 5 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said: Its the NFL and these are professional receivers. IMO, I really didn't see any short throws that a receiver should have had trouble catching because of velocity, including the one that deflected off Beasley for an interception. And the quicker the ball gets to you the quicker you can turn upfield for YAC 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 36 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: You could see Allen making progressions and he was just firing it in there. I agree - I saw improvements. Big improvements. Upon watching it in slow motion, I do give Allen more fault for the Beasley INT than I did (I thought it was just a fluke). He had 3 Jets LBs lurking back there anticipating that throw, so it was less of a fluke and more of "going to the well too often" on that play. I don't like that play call there. Allen had just successfully escaped to throw the ball away (scored as Inc to Zay Jones) then had a bad strip sack where his LT got beaten like a drum and he tried to stiff arm him and escape instead of protecting the ball with both hands. He had (if I'm not mistaken) pretty much thrown that same pass to John Brown on the previous series, about 4-5 plays previous. The Jets predicted it and 3 of them were hanging there waiting. I give Allen credit for trying to put the ball low where a miss wouldn't wind up in the hands of a linebacker, but I don't think that was the best play call (maybe on Daboll) or the best read. Will see when I get the 22. I think Allen's clock was running fast from the previous 2 plays and he rushed his throw and put it a bit lower than it needed to be. I'm also suspecting there was a better read (because 3 Jets players were right there, musta been a hole somewhere else). I don't take offense to that throw. There will always be guys lurking in a zone.. the fact Beasley found the soft spot doesn't make it a bad decision Maybe take a little juice off it or put it in his belly and we aren't talking about a pick 6.. I think we will see that route combination a lot 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoHuddleKelly12 Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 45 minutes ago, Nextmanup said: Yeah but he made quite a few glaring errors that should have been erased from his game by now, if he were to improve with each week. No? Couldn't you make a similar argument about Darnold on the other side? And no one is calling his outing a sign of stunted development, to my knowledge? https://www.espn.com/nfl/team/_/name/nyj/new-york-jets "QB Sam Darnold (1-for-6 on tight-window throws)" "QB Sam Darnold took the blame for the offensive struggles, saying, "I think we just couldn't really get into a rhythm and I put that on myself." He wasn't sharp. He was pressured nine times, sacked four times and didn't complete a ball longer than 19 yards. Half his completions went to Jamison Crowder (14 catches), all dink-and-dunk variety." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 11 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said: Its the NFL and these are professional receivers. IMO, I really didn't see any short throws that a receiver should have had trouble catching because of velocity, including the one that deflected off Beasley for an interception. Yes, they’re professional receivers and they’ve also never encountered a qb that throws that hard. You have less time to react when he throws the ball. The pick 6 ball to Beasley. It was a little low. If it didn’t have as much mustard on it, he would’ve had more time to react. He didn’t have to throw the ball THAT hard. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
co_springs_billsfan Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 4 minutes ago, NewEra said: Yes, they’re professional receivers and they’ve also never encountered a qb that throws that hard. You have less time to react when he throws the ball. The pick 6 ball to Beasley. It was a little low. If it didn’t have as much mustard on it, he would’ve had more time to react. He didn’t have to throw the ball THAT hard. I also think 97 out of 100 times that the receiver doesn't catch that it falls harmlessly incomplete. (I am not posting my statistical analysis) ? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cripple Creek Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 1 hour ago, billsbackto81 said: Agreed, though I would have liked to see him uncork a couple deep shots to Brown or Foster. Bills had 6 plays of 20+ yards, jests had 0. I'll take that. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreggTX Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 He certainly made his share of mistakes. Some 0of those passes should never have been attempted. He needs to just throw it away sometimes. Thankfully, Maye dropped that 3rd pick! That said, I thought his accuracy looked a lot better than last year when receivers were having to adjust to the ball as often as not. He still threw some off target passes, but not as frequently as I'm used to seeing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logic Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 (edited) I definitely liked the accuracy on short and intermediate throws. But ya know what I REALLY liked? What REALLY stood out to me? Josh's complete and total command of the offense. The way he got the team in and out of the huddle with minimal delay of games (I think there were 1 or 2 all day), made checks and called audibles at the line of scrimmage, and directed traffic all day long was a thing of beauty. To do that, on the road against a good defense and a fired up home crowd, in just your TWELFTH career start...is impressive. He showed poise, command, and leadership, and he looked calm and composed all day. Even after all the turnovers, he kept his head about him and delivered when it mattered most. I know it's a cliche you're all probably sick of hearing, but "Mental Toughness" is what it was. And as far as looking for signs of progress in a young QB, Allen's total command and undeniable presence as a field general yesterday was extremely encouraging. For direct comparison, look no further than Sam Darnold in yesterday's game. Granted, it was his first game in a brand new offense, but still. Whereas Darnold appeared to simply be calling what Gase told him to, Allen looked like he was the one in charge of determining how the Bills would line up based on the defensive look presented. Daboll seems to have complete faith in him with regard to playcalling and decision making. Edited September 9, 2019 by Logic 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 13 minutes ago, NewEra said: Yes, they’re professional receivers and they’ve also never encountered a qb that throws that hard. You have less time to react when he throws the ball. The pick 6 ball to Beasley. It was a little low. If it didn’t have as much mustard on it, he would’ve had more time to react. He didn’t have to throw the ball THAT hard. No, but he was throwing to possession receiver Cole Beasley, not his sister Mary Hart Elvira Beasley. Cole needs to catch that ball. Consider the Bell td, a reception down near the cleats that he pulls in. It was just one of those things that happens as $#!^ gets off the rails. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 15 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: I don't take offense to that throw. There will always be guys lurking in a zone.. the fact Beasley found the soft spot doesn't make it a bad decision Maybe take a little juice off it or put it in his belly and we aren't talking about a pick 6.. I think we will see that route combination a lot My only point to that was - and this is without the all-22 so I may be wrong - I'm guessing that just wasn't the best read on that play. (Yeah, if it had been thrown a little softer or a little higher it would have gone for a short completion. FWIW, here's a screen shot of the network film on that play, just after the snap Here's a screen shot from network film just before Josh throws: You're right that Beasley has found a soft spot, but tell me what you see (besides the fact that the RT is about to get pwned) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 7 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: I don't take offense to that throw. There will always be guys lurking in a zone.. the fact Beasley found the soft spot doesn't make it a bad decision Maybe take a little juice off it or put it in his belly and we aren't talking about a pick 6.. I think we will see that route combination a lot Most of the time a pass that low is a safe play. He put it in a spot where only Beasley could get it. It was off target but i would guess 90% of the time or more that play is a 7 yard gain or an incomplete pass. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codyny13 Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 Really looked like he went through his progressions nicely. He’s def developing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 1 minute ago, Jauronimo said: Most of the time a pass that low is a safe play. He put it in a spot where only Beasley could get it. It was off target but i would guess 90% of the time or more that play is a 7 yard gain or an incomplete pass. I never said it was a horrible pass. I would expect that to be caught most of the time The low pass was good but it just was a bit off target which led to the pop-up. I still would think Beasley would catch that next time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 6 minutes ago, Jauronimo said: Most of the time a pass that low is a safe play. He put it in a spot where only Beasley could get it. It was off target but i would guess 90% of the time or more that play is a 7 yard gain or an incomplete pass. In this case, maybe only 4 or 5, but the point stands, in general you're right. The thing is you can see 4 defenders who are expecting the ball to go nowhere else. I think the design of the play is that the TE (can't see who) is supposed to take a LB with him when he releases, and someone is supposed to be worried about Motor (I think) breaking right, but it was No Sale. It helps that play if the D has at least a little uncertainty and isn't just waiting to pounce. 1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said: I never said it was a horrible pass. I would expect that to be caught most of the time The low pass was good but it just was a bit off target which led to the pop-up. I still would think Beasley would catch that next time I don't think it was a horrible pass and agree with both you and Jaur that it's normally safe. I think it had a bit more zip on it than Beas was expecting (happens). I also think there may have been a better read, but maybe I'm wrong (screen shots) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LOVEMESOMEBILLS Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 1 hour ago, Nextmanup said: Yeah but he made quite a few glaring errors that should have been erased from his game by now, if he were to improve with each week. No? As he said as a second year RAW QB, playing in his 12th game, there's still going to be some errors. Unlike several of the top notched QBs he wasn't given 15+ games to sit and learn, like Brady, Brees, Mahomes & Rodgers, he's had to learn while starting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 Just now, NewEra said: Yes, they’re professional receivers and they’ve also never encountered a qb that throws that hard. You have less time to react when he throws the ball. The pick 6 ball to Beasley. It was a little low. If it didn’t have as much mustard on it, he would’ve had more time to react. He didn’t have to throw the ball THAT hard. Honestly, it didn't appear to have any more velocity on it than any other QB throwing that same pass. You are right, it was low; however, Beasley still should have caught it. He saw it coming the entire time, as he was watching Allen before it even left his hand, and reacted accordingly. He just didn't make the catch. You can blame Allen for putting the ball a little low, but that's about it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 10 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: My only point to that was - and this is without the all-22 so I may be wrong - I'm guessing that just wasn't the best read on that play. (Yeah, if it had been thrown a little softer or a little higher it would have gone for a short completion. FWIW, here's a screen shot of the network film on that play, just after the snap Here's a screen shot from network film just before Josh throws: You're right that Beasley has found a soft spot, but tell me what you see (besides the fact that the RT is about to get pwned) I honestly see a nice pocket that Josh can step up into Something we haven't had consistently for a long time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Sack Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 Allen was a few inches off on the Beasley ball but I do like the fact it was low and set Beasley up to get to the ground and not take a big hit. Beasley should be had his hands on the ball but some of that is on Allen for not throwing the ball a bit slower so the deflection would not have been as strong. 5mph slower and the ball is likely caught or it gets there 1/10 slower allowing Beasley to catch it in the breadbasket. On the second pick you see Allen stare the WR down (not good) and a DL simply times his jump to get a deflection. Allen needed to look that one off with his eyes, pump fake, or eat the ball and try to sprint to the edge looking for a dump off/throw out of bounds/or take a few yards on an outside scramble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 he looked like he's learning a few things. I don't want them to try to turn him into alex smith with short low value passes based on quick decisions tho, they need to mix it up and have him take bigger shots more often (which we did late, and it resulted in a win). that will also open up the d to the run, and allow us to show one formation for multiple plays, and multiple formations for the same play as well. i liked the sense of rhythm and such, just think we needed a few good runs in there to keep the d honest. at the end of the day, we aren't gonna beat the pats without some big huge plays, as well as adding up the gut punches of the running game to get them late, so we should start the way we want to finish. i think our O in the late 3rd and 4th quarter showed a lot of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SloanBillsFan Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 1 hour ago, Nextmanup said: Yeah but he made quite a few glaring errors that should have been erased from his game by now, if he were to improve with each week. No? IDK about that. This was his, what ~12th regular season start? Rome wasn't built in a day. Apples and oranges maybe but it took me 10 years to finally quit smoking-not that I think it'll take Allen that long to become great. I just believe deeply ingrained bad habits take far longer to break and relapses are many therein. He'll keep growing but it's going to take time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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