Pro Football Network: Bills one of teams in on Clowney trade

[Forward Progress]

If the asking price includes a first round draft pick, we are better to walk away. 

 

I’d rather have 5 years of a first round pick on a rookie contract than one year on a franchise tender with no legal means to extend the contract. 

 

Next years draft is strong in WR’s, where a strong #1 receiver will improve our team.  

 

[Element115]

9 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I think there are deer everywhere in the United States.  

 

Yeah but the whitetail hunting in NYS is pretty good compared to most places. 

[Royale with Cheese]

2 minutes ago, r00tabaga said:

Hawaii

 

 

....boom

 

 

If this thread doesn't get to 50 pages today i'm so done with this franchise. 

 

I really didn't know Hawaii didn't have deer.

 

Okay...continental US!

[Bray Wyatt]

1 minute ago, Element115 said:

 

Yeah but the whitetail hunting in NYS is pretty good compared to most places. 

 

What I want to know is what are your thoughts on Bob Lazar and Area 51

[uticaclub]

2 minutes ago, r00tabaga said:

Hawaii

 

 

....boom

 

 

If this thread doesn't get to 50 pages today i'm so done with this franchise. 

 

https://www.foxnews.com/us/deer-growth-mystery-in-hawaii-pits-hunters-against-government

[whatdrought]

Just now, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I really didn't know Hawaii didn't have deer.

 

Okay...continental US!

 

I’m sure the have some kind of deer... probably not whitetail. 

 

West of the Rockies whitetail are hard to come by, but Mule deer are prevalent. Not sure how they compare hunting wise, but I think the average Mule deer is smaller...

[Element115]

Just now, Bray Wyatt said:

 

What I want to know is what are your thoughts on Bob Lazar and Area 51

 

I think Lazar is probably an expert at lying.

[Bray Wyatt]

1 minute ago, Element115 said:

 

I think Lazar is probably an expert at lying.

 

well we will soon find out when the people rise up and storm area 51!!! 

[Element115]

1 minute ago, Bray Wyatt said:

 

well we will soon find out when the people rise up and storm area 51!!! 

 

That could be a fun trip I think. If it happens hope no one gets shot.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

 

Isn't there a deadline for Tags?  

 

It has to have come and gone.   Are they waiting for cut down day??  

 

[Cheektowaga Chad]

What ever a team trades for clowney they will be able to flip him next off season if they dont want to sign him long term. 

 

I'm really interested in clowney because of this reason, right now it sounds as if youd be getting clowney cheap. If thats the case we can then flip him after the season for more plus get an upgrade at defensive end for this coming season. Soumds like a win to me

 

Ie. if we trade a 2nd for him today, we could definitely get a 2nd plus at the end of the season when teams can actually sign him long term

[YoloinOhio]

37 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

 

Isn't there a deadline for Tags?  

 

It has to have come and gone.   Are they waiting for cut down day??  

 

No. If he doesn’t sign it, he doesn’t play. It’s a Lev Bell situation. 

 

Edit- without looking it up i think if they don’t sign by a certain week in the reg season they can’t play regardless. I do think it’s after the trade deadline, anyway 

Edited August 27, 2019 by YoloinOhio

[Element115]

12 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

 

I’m sure the have some kind of deer... probably not whitetail. 

 

West of the Rockies whitetail are hard to come by, but Mule deer are prevalent. Not sure how they compare hunting wise, but I think the average Mule deer is smaller...

 

The way I understand it, is on ave, mule deer are bigger, as in thicker, like comparing a neanderthal to a ***** sapien.  Whitetail are generally smaller than mule deer but can vary a lot more in body size.  WNY has a good population of large bodied whitetail, over 200 lbs dressed, which can be bigger than some mule deer.

 

Also, did you know that as a species, whitetail deer are around 16 million years old iirc.  It's funny, but humans are one of the newest kids on the block.

[whatdrought]

Just now, Element115 said:

 

The way I understand it, is on ave, mule deer are bigger, as in thicker, like comparing a neanderthal to a ***** sapien.  Whitetail are generally smaller than mule deer but can vary a lot more in body size.  WNY has a good population of large bodied whitetail, over 200 lbs dressed, which can be bigger than some mule deer.

 

Also, did you know that as a species, whitetail deer are around 16 million years old iirc.  It's funny, but humans are one of the newest kids on the block.

 

Hm. I stand corrected. I have seen a decent amount of both, and Mule deer always looked smaller to me, but that might be the way they run.

Also, the deer here in Southern VA are absolutely tiny. Just nothing on them. 

[Green Lightning]

36 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

 

https://www.foxnews.com/us/deer-growth-mystery-in-hawaii-pits-hunters-against-government

Beat me to it.

19 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

 

Hm. I stand corrected. I have seen a decent amount of both, and Mule deer always looked smaller to me, but that might be the way they run.

Also, the deer here in Southern VA are absolutely tiny. Just nothing on them. 

I've gotten both and mule deer are generally larger. That said the biggest deer I ever got was a white tail doe in WNY. 

[CLTbills]

31 minutes ago, Cheektowaga Chad said:

What ever a team trades for clowney they will be able to flip him next off season if they dont want to sign him long term. 

 

I'm really interested in clowney because of this reason, right now it sounds as if youd be getting clowney cheap. If thats the case we can then flip him after the season for more plus get an upgrade at defensive end for this coming season. Soumds like a win to me

 

Ie. if we trade a 2nd for him today, we could definitely get a 2nd plus at the end of the season when teams can actually sign him long term

You can't trade him past the trade deadline (week 6), and if he's on a tag, then that means he's not under contract after the league year, so we can't trade him. We have no rights to him at that point.

 

We would however, get a compensatory pick if we didn't re-sign him, which would probably be a 3rd rounder.

[whatdrought]

7 minutes ago, Green Lightning said:

Beat me to it.

I've gotten both and mule deer are generally larger. That said the biggest deer I ever got was a white tail doe in WNY. 

 

Thanks for the correction. How does the meat stack up? I've had some of each, but not enough to draw a solid conclusion. 

[Virgil]

Holy crap!  Is it really happening???

 

www.espn.go.com/schefter123jd/clowneybills/123aa/as2

[DBilz2500]

Just now, Virgil said:

Holy crap!  Is it really happening???

 

www.espn.go.com/schefter123jd/clowneybills/123aa/as2

Not funny or original at all 

[whatdrought]

3 minutes ago, DBilz2500 said:

Not funny or original at all 

 

I take it that means he got you....

[wppete]

[John from Riverside]

DAMMIT VIRGIL

[Cornette's Commentary]

18 minutes ago, Virgil said:

Holy crap!  Is it really happening???

 

www.espn.go.com/schefter123jd/clowneybills/123aa/as2

[Cheektowaga Chad]

35 minutes ago, CLTbills said:

You can't trade him past the trade deadline (week 6), and if he's on a tag, then that means he's not under contract after the league year, so we can't trade him. We have no rights to him at that point.

 

We would however, get a compensatory pick if we didn't re-sign him, which would probably be a 3rd rounder.

In my scenario the bills would tag him after the season, holding his rights and do what the texans should have done by trading him before the deadline to sign his franchise tag. Thus allowing a team to sign him long term

[Rochesterfan]

1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

It seems simple,  but the number of teams who can fit in his cap #, are offering what the Texans are willing to take, and that he is willing to go to may not align. The biggest issue is that the Texans have no leverage. Also, they have no GM.

 

 

I also believe that his grievance has not been solved - so he can not and will not sign a Tag until that is solved and that could impact teams as it is an additional 2 million if he is qualified as a DE.

 

That will also impact future contracts for Clowney and there is talk that once the grievance is decided that Clowney will work to negotiate in the Tag that he can not be tagged again.

 

I still think we are days to a week away on getting everything finalized before a Tag is even available to sign.

1 hour ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

 

Isn't there a deadline for Tags?  

 

It has to have come and gone.   Are they waiting for cut down day??  

 

 

 

Nope he can sign it up until week 9 or 10 and still get his year of service in.

[Rochesterfan]

19 minutes ago, Cheektowaga Chad said:

In my scenario the bills would tag him after the season, holding his rights and do what the texans should have done by trading him before the deadline to sign his franchise tag. Thus allowing a team to sign him long term

 

You might be able to, but prior to signing his Tag this year - Clowney will have the option to try and get conditions- like no team can Tag him a second time- attached.  Sometimes teams agree - sometimes they don’t- in this case if you are trading him - that might be the only way to get him to sign the original franchise tag.

[Rochesterfan]

1 hour ago, whatdrought said:

 

 But Bill O’Brian is a genius! He spent several years shakin it for the other Bill, so he must know exactly what he’s doing— give him all the power.

 

 

Thats a valid point... seems like a pretty straight forward thing to me- count how many times his hand was on the ground at the snap/when it wasn’t, there’s your answer. 

 

 

I think there are also questions about time attacking the QB as a rusher versus playing true LB.  There was also discussion about if the rule him an OLB and then trade him to a 4-3 team where he plays DE what impact does that have.

 

I think in the end because of a potential trade - he will get switched to DE and have over a 17 million dollar tag - making the trade slightly harder and future negotiations slightly higher, but mirrors closer to what he has done.

[Buddo]

7 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

You might be able to, but prior to signing his Tag this year - Clowney will have the option to try and get conditions- like no team can Tag him a second time- attached.  Sometimes teams agree - sometimes they don’t- in this case if you are trading him - that might be the only way to get him to sign the original franchise tag.

 

I'm not so sure that that is an option tbh. Teams might be able to make verbal agreements about not tagging someone a second time, but I don't think the general franchise tag contracts allow for it - although it's quite possible I'm wrong. In other words, I don't think you can add any 'conditions' into a franchise tag contract.

 

It's also quite obvious that until any designation dispute is settled, no-one should expect a tag to be signed, especially when the designation is between OLB and DE, with a couple of million difference.

[GunnerBill]

35 minutes ago, Cheektowaga Chad said:

In my scenario the bills would tag him after the season, holding his rights and do what the texans should have done by trading him before the deadline to sign his franchise tag. Thus allowing a team to sign him long term

 

You can't trade him until he signs his tag. 

[CLTbills]

35 minutes ago, Cheektowaga Chad said:

In my scenario the bills would tag him after the season, holding his rights and do what the texans should have done by trading him before the deadline to sign his franchise tag. Thus allowing a team to sign him long term

but you can't trade him until he signs it. Which is the boat the Texans are in now.

[njbuff]

STILL, with this thread?

[Mark Vader]

4 minutes ago, njbuff said:

STILL, with this thread?

Not much else to talk about until the next game.

[billsredneck1]

On 8/25/2019 at 12:51 PM, YoloinOhio said:

I think there is pretty decent Clowney is a Bill by the  end of the day. They are one of two teams mentioned and Clowney rumored to not want to go to Miami. He controls the situation, remember, because he can’t be traded until he signs his franchise tender. 

it's a pass for me. i don't think he'll ever perform at the level of pay he's gonna get. i think murphy is gonna get double d sacks and what would you do with him and shaq after getting clowney?

[thebandit27]

7 minutes ago, njbuff said:

STILL, with this thread?

 

Yes...a "Clowney watch" thread is probably going to continue until he's traded.

 

Is that really so shocking?

[r00tabaga]

Hughes, Marcel, Kyle & Mario

 

  -or-

 

Hughes, Oliver, Star & Clowney

 

 

I'll still say #ColdFront was/would be better

[Cheektowaga Chad]

12 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

You can't trade him until he signs his tag. 

 

12 minutes ago, CLTbills said:

but you can't trade him until he signs it. Which is the boat the Texans are in now.

Yes it would have to be a sign and trade

[RobbRiddick]

I started reading this thread on my 21st birthday. I'm now turning 45 and we still haven't signed him. 

[YoloinOhio]

15 minutes ago, njbuff said:

STILL, with this thread?

What is wrong with the thread? He is going to be traded. Bills are one of the teams in the mix. He hasn’t been traded yet. Therefore, discussion ensues. 

[muppy]

Quote

 

if the Bills are even conceivably interested in signing this guy someone needs to be monitoring the Pegula jet...I love the Pegula jet threads

[Rochesterfan]

25 minutes ago, Buddo said:

 

I'm not so sure that that is an option tbh. Teams might be able to make verbal agreements about not tagging someone a second time, but I don't think the general franchise tag contracts allow for it - although it's quite possible I'm wrong. In other words, I don't think you can add any 'conditions' into a franchise tag contract.

 

It's also quite obvious that until any designation dispute is settled, no-one should expect a tag to be signed, especially when the designation is between OLB and DE, with a couple of million difference.

 

The article I read yesterday talked about multiple times not very recently where this has occurred.  See below

 

It is something he can request and Clowney has more leverage- since they are trying to trade him rather than keeping him.

 

from CBS Sportsline:

 

What Clowney should be fighting over

Clowney should be making a clause that would prohibit the Texans from using a franchise or transition designation on him in 2020 (i.e.; a prohibition clause) more of a priority over increasing his 2019 pay through a grievance. He isn't restricted to just playing for his
franchise tender with the Texans now that the long term deal deadline has passed. Clowney is allowed to negotiate his one year salary and other conditions relating to his franchise player status.

It is customary for franchise players who don't get long term deals to play for the tender amount. The lone exception is Jason Pierre-Paul. The edge rusher signed an incentive laden one-year deal with the Giants in 2015 worth up to the prorated amount of his franchise tag after severely injuring his right hand during a Fourth of July fireworks accident that kept him from being physically cleared to play football until seven weeks into the season.

 

Obtaining a prohibition clause won't be easy. A few franchise players have been able to negotiate a provision preventing a franchise or transition designation for the following year.

It hasn't happened in over a decade though. A franchise player hasn't gotten this type of provision since 2008 when the Titans gave defensive tackle Albert Haynesworth a conditional prohibition clause. It was triggered by Haynesworth making the Pro Bowl, having at least 60 percent defensive playtime, or 53 percent defensive playtime and the Titans winning at least 10 games or ranking in the top five in total defense.

Conditional prohibition clauses were also agreed to by teams in 2007. Linebacker Lance Briggs' clause with the Bears required him to have at least 75% playtime on defense. Patriots cornerback Asante Samuel's provision was contingent on him having at least 60% playtime on defense or the Patriots winning at least 12 games. Offensive tackle Jeff Backus and cornerback Nate Clements received the last unconditional prohibition clauses in 2006 with the Lions and Bills respectively.

An inability for the Texans to restrict Clowney, who was named to the Pro Bowl for a third consecutive year in 2018, again would ensure him getting his true market value next year. On the open market, Clowney conceivably could command more than the five-year, $105 million contract averaging $21 million per year and containing $65 million in guarantees ($48 million fully guaranteed) the Cowboys gave defensive end DeMarcus Lawrence as a franchise player in April.

Clowney proposing to drop the grievance in exchange for the prohibition clause may make sense, especially if his camp and/or the Texans believe he has a pretty good chance of his challenge prevailing. It's never happened before but it would be interesting to know whether any franchise player places enough value on having a prohibition clause that he would take a one year salary that's slightly less than his franchise tender in order to get one.