JOSH ALLEN post game thread

[Alphadawg7]

It’s a bit funny to see so many over reacting and over exaggerating the game for Josh last night.  

 

It wasn’t remotely close to as bad some say.  Zay blew a first down pass, Cole fumbled a straight dime first down strike by Allen, and he led us on an excellent two minute drive.  

 

He made a bad bad mistake on one throw, first one all preseason, and now some act like the sky is falling.  I mean I have seen every top QB in the NFL make a poor throw like that trying to extend a play. It happens, no big deal.  It becomes an issue when mistakes like that reoccur too often.  He did it once all preseason...so let’s pump the brakes on the panic and over reaction off one pass.

 

Plus, coaching staff clearly was focused on getting run game reps which meant Allen wasn’t given a chance to get a rhythm early, especially with drive killing drop by Zay and the 2 other turnovers.  

 

And Josh was probably pressing a bit on that INT too because he didn’t want to get off the field given the limited reps so far as he’s a gamer and it was a no risk preseason game.

 

Hes gonna have a good season IMO.

[Beast]

Maybe we can get get Peterman back since he is having another wonderful preseason and would never throw a pass like Allen did.

Edited August 24, 2019 by Binghamton Beast

[SmokinES3]

8 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

that's the throw a wide eyed rookie makes...but not a 2nd year qb...

It's preseason 

[Billsfansinceday1]

3 hours ago, Green Lightning said:

Umm, sorry. That was a bone-head rookie throw. He needs to use less arm and more brains moving forward.

He pretty much admitted it was a bonehead throw and needed to learn from it.  He will always be aggressive but I do think he learned from this one.  It is a pretty fine line between aggression and being boneheaded.

[billsfan1959]

49 minutes ago, Green Lightning said:

You must miss Fitzy then. Hey if you think that was a smart throw, and accurate throw and an acceptable risk, then we just view the game very differently.  I prefer to win for once. Josh should learn the rules first before knowing when to break them. 

Or perhaps you should try not overreacting to a single throw...

20 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

It’s a bit funny to see so many over reacting and over exaggerating the game for Josh last night.  

 

It wasn’t remotely close to as bad some say.  Zay blew a first down pass, Cole fumbled a straight dime first down strike by Allen, and he led us on an excellent two minute drive.  

 

He made a bad bad mistake on one throw, first one all preseason, and now some act like the sky is falling.  I mean I have seen every top QB in the NFL make a poor throw like that trying to extend a play. It happens, no big deal.  It becomes an issue when mistakes like that reoccur too often.  He did it once all preseason...so let’s pump the brakes on the panic and over reaction off one pass.

 

Plus, coaching staff clearly was focused on getting run game reps which meant Allen wasn’t given a chance to get a rhythm early, especially with drive killing drop by Zay and the 2 other turnovers.  

 

And Josh was probably pressing a bit on that INT too because he didn’t want to get off the field given the limited reps so far as he’s a gamer and it was a no risk preseason game.

 

Hes gonna have a good season IMO.

Amen, brother...

[Putin]

35 minutes ago, billspro said:

 

Good point, those were awesome when he completed it. 

It’s NOT about the throw he made its more about his decision making AGAIN it was on a 2nd & 4 , the right thing to do was to throw the ball away and Josh knows that , I just hope he learns from the mistakes he makes so when the regular season starts this won’t be an issue anymore!!! 

Gooo Bills !!!

 

[Heitz]

2 hours ago, transient said:

 

Right?! All this talk about the INT, but that mange infested dead muskrat on his face is the thing that worries me the most about his lack of judgment. Know your strengths Josh; buy a razor!

 

Oh man, I could NOT disagree more!  I mean, what's the point of preseason!?  NOW is the time for Josh to start growing a beard - a young QB, second season, third preseason game - let is rip now, I say.  It's going to take time for him to have a great beard, I just hope that McBeane are crew are getting him the beard oils and barbering that he needs to be successful.

 

I mean, look at it this way, do you think Fitz just woke up like that!?  Heck no, he's a Harvard guy, and while he doesn't have arm of Josh, he used his smarts to methodically grow his beard to epic, Grizzly Adams-like proportions.  It didn't happen in his season season! (probably)

 

I say let the kid give it a try.  Maybe it's a mistake and he'll get it out of his system in the preseason, but I'm willing to bet that by the time we're in the second half of the regular season, that beard is going to be looking pretty good...

 

Go Bills!

 

 

 

Edited August 24, 2019 by Heitz

[BillsCelticsAngelsBama]

5 hours ago, Kmart128 said:

 

But why not try it... If you are gonna try it why not do it in a meaningless preseason game and see just what you can get away with with his arm strength. Use that as a measuring stick for future reference.

 

And with the new PI rules a lot of good can come from just giving your reciever a chance. 

 

And good did come from it. If he had bailed out early and just threw the ball away he wouldn't have drawn a penalty flag.

 

Doesn't bother me at all. It's a meaningless game. Throwing the ball away does nothing. Why not take the risk... What's the worst that gonna happen. You throw an INT in a game that doesn't matter. Its same reason teams go for in on 4th down in preseason when they obviously wouldn't in a real game. Take the risk and see what you can and can not do. Throwing it away does nothing in these type of games. But taking risks can be used to learn and improve.

I only coached at the Junior college level for 17 years, but this post is just wrong, my friend. I guarantee there is no coach on this team who has this opinion

[ILBillsfan]

Good thing Allen has not had the preseason Mayfield a lot of you over reacting negative nancy’s Would be imploding .... oh wait you already are and it was in a game that he threw six passes good lord

[BillsCelticsAngelsBama]

3 hours ago, Drunken Pygmy Goat said:

 

My thoughts exactly, even the Favre reference.

 

That play instantly reminded me of the two hero ball INTs he threw early last season. I thought for sure he was going to throw it away when he neared the sideline, and was pretty disappointed to see the result. BUT, this is when you want to make those mistakes if you're going to make them.

 

Things have been awful rosey around Allen lately, and a little dose of humble pie in a "meaningless" preseason game doesn't hurt. 

I hope you're right. Been a fan since 65' (5 years old) and I want a Lombardi before I die. I'm not confident in him but if the coaches can raise his FB IQ and harness that erratic  bazooka, maybe.... just maybe..... real soon.... I would cry tears of joy for a week !

3 hours ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

yeah preseason games always tend to discourage me. I base all four ( three really) preseason games on how the season is going to unfold. throwing merely 6 passes on what was expected to be a run heavy night leaves me very worried. I don't even need to watch the fourth preseason game as starters may only  play a series so I can go ahead now and use last nights game as an indication of how the season will go forward and since I'm so discouraged I now feel they may win 4, maybe 5 games? man, these preseason games have just taken all the excitement I had in looking forward to the 2019 season. so discouraging.

too long, too weak

[HappyDays]

4 hours ago, thebandit27 said:

Does anyone care that he made that same throw last year for big completions in 3 different games--2 of which were for 50+ yards?

 

Yes, it's a throw he needs to learn not to force, but it's also a club that he should keep in his bag.

 

Yeah not all across the body throws are bad. Mahomes completed more than his share last year. But he does need to cap how far down the field he's tossing those. Across the body to an abandoned check down option is fine. Across the body to a covered receiver downfield is going to be intercepted every time.

[BillsCelticsAngelsBama]

54 minutes ago, Binghamton Beast said:

Maybe we can get get Peterman back since he is having another wonderful preseason and would never throw a pass like Allen did.

Now, that's funny !

[billspro]

39 minutes ago, Putin said:

It’s NOT about the throw he made its more about his decision making AGAIN it was on a 2nd & 4 , the right thing to do was to throw the ball away and Josh knows that , I just hope he learns from the mistakes he makes so when the regular season starts this won’t be an issue anymore!!! 

Gooo Bills !!!

 

 

I don’t think it will be an issue in the regular season. 

[Stank_Nasty]

4 hours ago, thebandit27 said:

Does anyone care that he made that same throw last year for big completions in 3 different games--2 of which were for 50+ yards?

 

Yes, it's a throw he needs to learn not to force, but it's also a club that he should keep in his bag.

100%. If I remember correctly huge gain to ivory in MINN, large chunk to McCoy in HOU, and then another big gain to ivory in the finale? 

 

Just needs to dial it back a hair. Nothing major. He’ll get it 

[LSHMEAB]

3 hours ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

yeah preseason games always tend to discourage me. I base all four ( three really) preseason games on how the season is going to unfold. throwing merely 6 passes on what was expected to be a run heavy night leaves me very worried. I don't even need to watch the fourth preseason game as starters may only  play a series so I can go ahead now and use last nights game as an indication of how the season will go forward and since I'm so discouraged I now feel they may win 4, maybe 5 games? man, these preseason games have just taken all the excitement I had in looking forward to the 2019 season. so discouraging.

Overreact much? 

[Green Lightning]

49 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

Or perhaps you should try not overreacting to a single throw...

I'm reacting to not seeing a growth of better decision-making that we were promised and seemed to be happening throughout training camp and the preseason. Hopefully the coaches "over react" as well so he doesn't do it again in the regular season.

[TonyBeets]

Its incredible how just one throw makes a large portion of the fanbase lose hope.

 

I'm not saying everyone, but that's all I could think about.  I kept saying to myself as the play was happening, throw it away, throw it away, please throw it away.  When he threw it against the grain, I think we all knew.

Edited August 24, 2019 by TonyBeets

[Stank_Nasty]

16 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Yeah not all across the body throws are bad. Mahomes completed more than his share last year. But he does need to cap how far down the field he's tossing those. Across the body to an abandoned check down option is fine. Across the body to a covered receiver downfield is going to be intercepted every time.

Right. I was just thinking this. It seems the ones he hits were when the rb snuck down the field out of the backfield. 

[78thealltimegreat]

The guy had 6 throws ...Tony Romo was doing throws Josh did across his body when he was a pro bowler qbs do that all the time..just wish he would have been given more opportunities they seemed obsessed with establishing the running game which I don’t think needed practice but that’s what they did 

[Heitz]

3 hours ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

yeah preseason games always tend to discourage me. I base all four ( three really) preseason games on how the season is going to unfold. throwing merely 6 passes on what was expected to be a run heavy night leaves me very worried. I don't even need to watch the fourth preseason game as starters may only  play a series so I can go ahead now and use last nights game as an indication of how the season will go forward and since I'm so discouraged I now feel they may win 4, maybe 5 games? man, these preseason games have just taken all the excitement I had in looking forward to the 2019 season. so discouraging.

 

Makes COMPLETE sense - it's like, sciencetific! 

 

 

Edited August 24, 2019 by Heitz

[Alphadawg7]

IRONY - The same people who were screaming "Its only preseason, pump the brakes" every time Josh looked good...are also now saying "see I told you he sucks, look at the ONE PASS in a PRESEASON game".

 

LMAO

[buffaloboyinATL]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

It’s a bit funny to see so many over reacting and over exaggerating the game for Josh last night.  

 

It wasn’t remotely close to as bad some say.  Zay blew a first down pass, Cole fumbled a straight dime first down strike by Allen, and he led us on an excellent two minute drive.  

This is so very true. I actually re-watched the game this morning because there was so much negativity on the board.  All in all, another decent performance, with plenty to be encouraged by.

[Alphadawg7]

1 minute ago, buffaloboyinATL said:

This is so very true. I actually re-watched the game this morning because there was so much negativity on the board.  All in all, another decent performance, with plenty to be encouraged by.

 

Exactly.  Josh threw a pass to Zay who didnt even make a play on the ball barely that should have been caught for a first down.  Throws a strike to Cole for a first down who fumbled the ball away.  I mean he only threw the ball 6 times lol.  

 

He was fine outside the one bad INT play trying to extend a drive for once, and honestly probably felt he had to press as his WR's were letting him down to that point and OL too with penalties.  

 

His game wasn't that bad and led an excellent 2 min drive for a score.

[thebandit27]

2 hours ago, Green Lightning said:

Farve earned  that right, Allen hasn't shown enough smart passes to the warrant boneheads passes. That pass by any measure was stupid. Let him get a couple championships under his belt before he starts slinging rocks for fun.

 

So your position is that the pass shown is the first time Favre did that?

 

I'm guessing that you didn't grow up watching him 

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

51 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

Overreact much? 

you tell me, ?

1 hour ago, MOVALLEYRANDY said:

too long, too weak

36 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

IRONY - The same people who were screaming "Its only preseason, pump the brakes" every time Josh looked good...are also now saying "see I told you he sucks, look at the ONE PASS in a PRESEASON game".

 

LMAO

what do they call it? bbsd?

[rayray808]

42 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

IRONY - The same people who were screaming "Its only preseason, pump the brakes" every time Josh looked good...are also now saying "see I told you he sucks, look at the ONE PASS in a PRESEASON game".

 

LMAO

 

this

 

 

[Green Lightning]

46 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

So your position is that the pass shown is the first time Favre did that?

 

I'm guessing that you didn't grow up watching him 

Not likely, been following the bills since 1963. As I said before Brett Favre had a 62% lifetime completion average. He was more accurate then Josh has shown so far. Maybe before you compare Favre and Josh you'll want to give Josh more than a year starting to base a judgment on. A gunslinger attitude could give you a Favre or can give you a Fitz. The jury is still out on Josh. I like to see him succeed but how about follow the rules before learning when to break them.

[John from Riverside]

11 hours ago, Elite Poster said:

I was not a Josh Allen believer at first and gradually I started to believe. That throw was a nightmare. Never again. Throws like that and we aren't winning 9. I can't do 7 and below anymore. 

I see

 

So when Sam Darnold turns the ball over multiple times (which he does) then nobody should be fawning over him.....ever

 

Josh IS GOING to do this here and there.....and you know what....he does other things that are great.....a very good defense that backs him up.....

 

We are fine....calm down

[JoeF]

Josh will get his ass handed to him about "the play" in team film review and in the QB room.  He owned it but "the play" will be drilled into him.  

 

However, its important to understand what was the right thing to do on that play.  It was not to throw across his body into the middle of the field and triple coverage but to throw the ball away to the sideline.  He would have gotten the roughing call without the interception.  Give up on the play....This is not in a competitors DNA but its also not an impossible fix. 

 

The Bills got the smartest QB in the 2018 draft...he learns quickly.  He has to understand that in this case giving up on a play leads to team wins and trying to make a play often contributes to a loss. Sometimes you have to rely on the team to win, not just your individual talent.

 

I hope Jordan Poyer or Micah Hyde or Jerry Hughes talks to him and says "plays like that make me think you don't trust the D to do its job"  -- this is a team game...

Edited August 24, 2019 by JoeF

[billsfan1959]

1 hour ago, Green Lightning said:

I'm reacting to not seeing a growth of better decision-making that we were promised and seemed to be happening throughout training camp and the preseason. Hopefully the coaches "over react" as well so he doesn't do it again in the regular season.

I love that you say he was showing growth throughout training camp and the preseason; however, you are reacting to not seeing any growth. Which is it?

 

Or did, as I suspect, one throw in his third preseason game erase everything and convince you he hasn't grown.

 

If so, then that is what you WANT to see.

[John from Riverside]

6 hours ago, thebandit27 said:

Does anyone care that he made that same throw last year for big completions in 3 different games--2 of which were for 50+ yards?

 

Yes, it's a throw he needs to learn not to force, but it's also a club that he should keep in his bag.

I tried to explain this last night in the chat....and was immed told how the throw was different because those guys were wide open

 

He is going to make that throw fellas/and gals.....sometimes its gonna work...sometimes not

 

There is NO throw he cannot make...and he knows it....I agree witht he 2nd and 4 bit someone else brought up if this was a real game would not want to see him make that throw in that down and distance.

[Nextmanup]

11 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

that's the throw a wide eyed rookie makes...but not a 2nd year qb...

At the time in the game day thread, people were saying "better to do it now in pre-season and have it be a learning experience."

I was thinking "That learning experience should have already happened years ago in college."

 

or at a minimum, last year with Buffalo.

 

He does come across as an intelligent and funny kid, so there is hope for him.  

 

Maybe he will learn from it.

 

 

10 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

 

Sure.  Do we even watch other games?

 

 

Has dealing with Brady for 18 years made us believe all QBs are flawless always?  

 

 

 

 

LOL.  The old "other people make mistakes too so Allen's mistakes are OK" attempt at validating poor play.

 

This is a logical fallacy and should not be repeated by anyone.

 

You know who never makes that throw?  Tom Brady.  He is almost robotic in how he will throw the ball away to kill a play that obviously blew up or was never going to work in the first place.  He understands to just kill it before it becomes anything worse, and then you try again on the next play.

 

Surprising a kid as seemingly bright as Allen doesn't understand  that yet.

 

 

Edited August 24, 2019 by Nextmanup

[Nextmanup]

10 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:

I'd feel much more comfortable with that poor decision if it weren't for the first two third down attempts. It was not a good night and certainly discouraging. It's a preseason game in which he attempted a mere 6 passes. But he wasn't good. Doesn't mean he can't be guy; just means he's got a LONG ways to go.

The difference between the average and the great at this level is their ability to perform on a high level,  consistently.  

 

Hell, EJ and Tyrod looked like champions on some of their throws.  

 

A passer with Allen's credentials is likely to have a lot of games like last night.  He will be up and down within games and from game to game.  The question is to what degree and will the good play substantially outweigh the bad.

 

 

[LSHMEAB]

48 minutes ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

you tell me, ?

what do they call it? bbsd?

Stevie was my favorite player. Great pic. I was ENCOURAGED by what I saw against Carolina. I saw Allen do the things he's gonna need to do on a consistent basis in order to become a top QB in this league and I said as much. I was DISCOURAGED by what I saw last night. Same mistakes that plagued him as a rookie. Neither of these reactions indicate whether or not he'll ultimately succeed or fail. Not quite sure how you extrapolated that, but it seems based on your post that you took it rather seriously. 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

14 minutes ago, JoeF said:

Josh will get his ass handed to him about "the play" in team film review and in the QB room.  He owned it but "the play" will be drilled into him.  

 

.

...so what is the issue?...he takes whatever criticism is handed to him and works his azz off to get better and not make the same mistakes..he is "WE" and hardly "ME"...sure as hell has the preferential attitude, humility, ethic and respect for the game that I want in a growing youngster....where am I wrong?....

[K-9]

10 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

LOL.  The old "other people make mistakes too so Allen's mistakes are OK" attempt at validating poor play.

 

This is a logical fallacy and should not be repeated by anyone.

 

You know who never makes that throw?  Tom Brady.  He is almost robotic in how he will throw the ball away to kill a play that obviously blew up or was never going to work in the first place.  He understands to just kill it before it becomes anything worse, and then you try again on the next play.

 

Surprising a kid as seemingly bright as Allen doesn't understand  that yet.

 

 

Validating poor play? Perhaps you don't appreciate the difference between "validating" and "putting into perspective", which is what comparisons to other QBs poor play is meant to do. 

 

Or is Allen's poor play "worse" than anyone else's poor play? 

[JoeF]

10 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

...so what is the issue?...he takes whatever criticism is handed to him and works his azz off to get better and not make the same mistakes..he is "WE" and hardly "ME"...sure as hell has the preferential attitude, humility, ethic and respect for the game that I want in a growing youngster....where am I wrong?....

He still made the throw last night.  That throw was a "me" throw at that time of the game, not a team throw.  The only place for that throw is when you are down to your last play.  He has to learn that still, he hasn't ***** gotten it.  That's what the ***** is wrong with that play.  Its a total "me" bull#### play at that time of the game and he needs to be told that over and over again.

 

We have seen a lot of stupid football in the last 20 years and it really didn't matter because the Bills sucked.  Now the Bills have a chance to be good and plays like this may make a difference between a playoff team and an also ran. 

 

I agree he is a great kid...love him.  I believe in him.  He will clean this stuff up...but when he slips you have to be hard on him.  That's his path to greatness.

Edited August 24, 2019 by JoeF

[Buffalo Boy]

    As I read a lot of semi- doom and gloom about a half of preseason football ,  A game where run offense seemed to be the coaches game plan focus, I harken back to the golden days of Bills football.

   The  Kelly and Marv SB era.

   I remember Kelly being an interception machine in ‘86. I remember him throwing a crappy Int in his first AFC Championship game deep in his own territory. Why? Because he was young, cocky and believed in his arm. 

    I also remember that whole team dropping absolute Suckfest performances for 50+ minutes of a game and ekeing out last second victories or losing games they should have won. These were during the SB years.

     They also were notorious for sucking in the pre season.

     As a famous movie quote goes: “ Lighten up Francis!”

     It’s a young offense with a bunch of new parts and a QB who isn’t near to being a finished product.

Edited August 24, 2019 by Buffalo Boy

[LSHMEAB]

5 hours ago, zow2 said:

Once the regular games begin,  Allen will start scrambling again, and for big gains.  That’s who he is.  He won’t just stop.  I do believe he will be a better passer this year as well.   Looking for a solid season from big Josh.  

Completely agree with this. He's not running and that takes away a huge part of his game. I would have liked to see him build on the Carolina performance in terms of correcting his weaknesses. That did not happen. At all. But there's no doubt he'll be more effective in games that matter.

[John from Riverside]

4 hours ago, VW82 said:

Everyone seems overly focused on the INT which was brutal but it was his overall start to the game that makes me nervous. He wasn't great to start game one and even though his stats were solid in game two he was off target on some easy throws (Beasley/Shady) out of the gate.

 

This is the same trend from last year. Lots of times Allen is able to overcome it and find his rhythm later in the game but the frequent shaky starts are worrisome and probably a bigger sign that something isn’t quite right than Josh making the occasional horrible throw across his body into triple coverage.

Rewatching on Tivo now

 

We were making a concerted effort to run the ball....hardly passing

Zay Zones doesnt get his head around.....he doesnt fight for the ball and lets Slay knock it away

The Beasely throw was bad

He throws a perfect laser to Beasely in the middle of the field that Beasely fumbles