Trade Lawson and a 2020 draft pick for Clowney?

[Cornette's Commentary]

1 minute ago, DrDawkinstein said:

We simply CANT give up a 1st going into a legendary WR class next year. Plus, I hate trading 1sts for a player you also have to immediately sign to a huge deal.

 

I'd consider doing it for Shaq and a 2nd.

I don't understand this fanbase's obsession with wanting to trade away what could be high future picks for a guy who they remember from an epic highlight reel tackle in a bowl game from 6 years ago, but hasn't done squat in the NFL.

[Kirby Jackson]

1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

The Bills have strategically put themselves in the position to pay these types of players if they want to. They have one big time contract on the books - Morse. They have only one coming up - Tre White. QB on year 2 of rookie contract. This is when you make these deals. They could have no vet Pass rushers under contract next year. Clowney is in his prime.Contending teams have several blue chip players who are vets and they are $$. 

Kind of where I’m at. The $ is totally irrelevant at this point. The Bills could sign Clowney and AJ Green (or something like that) and wouldn’t even know the difference. The salary cap is a non-issue and borderline non-consideration for the Bills at this point. Try to front load whatever money in case Josh turns into the player that we all hope. That’s still a few years away though. This is the time.

Edited May 10, 2019 by Kirby Jackson

[BigBuff423]

Hard to see Beane parting ways with a 1st, in any year - he didn't do it for Josh Allen or Tremaine Edmunds, hard to see him doing it for Clowney that will also need a big contract. However a 3rd and Lawson would make sense. Yes, Houston wants more....but there has to be a market price and right now, except for maybe one or two teams, I don't think the market price bears out a 1st. A 2nd maybe...but 3rd and Lawson seems more reasonable IMO. And I'm not just saying this as a Bills fan. It could be the terrible NJ team that wears puke green and white, a 1st still seems high but....I guess we'll all wait to see if Houston makes the move or decides to keep him and let him play for his long-term value. 

[IgotBILLStopay]

2 hours ago, tomur67 said:

John Breech of CBS Sports suggests that it would be a logical trade between the Texans and the Bills.  The Bills would get Clowney,  but give up its first round pick in 2020 and Lawson. 

I dont want to give up a top 20 pick but the trade makes sense for a low first rounder. I would be ecstatic with a second rounder + Lawson for Clowney. 

 

The compensation to the Texans is only half the issue. What to pay Clowney is another issue. The sticking point of the contract impasse with the Texans is what Clowney thinks he is worth. I DO NOT want to give him Khalil Mack money. So long as he agrees to 50-55 mill guaranteed, I'd be all for it. But maybe the Texans are already offering him that much. Any writeups on how far apart Clowney and the Texans are? Then we can see if there is a sweet middle ground where we can pay more than Texans and still make it work.

Edited May 10, 2019 by IgotBILLStopay

[NewEra]

44 minutes ago, SCBills said:

We have the money to extend Hughes and give Clowney a new deal.  Our defense is set for the next few years at an elite status with this move.  

 

What people may or may not be factoring in when it comes to a 1st Round Pick, is that with Clowney, we should expect to be a playoff team.  That means we're drafting in the 20's.  This most likely wouldn't be another #9 pick.

 

I'd still be 50/50 on it, but would be ok with giving up Lawson and a 1st if that's what it came to.

 

We'd still have money next year to resign our guys and then have an entire draft, 2nd Round on, to focus on the offense and depth.  

 

Defense would be stacked this year and next.

 

Ideally OL is set for this year, and next, with Nsekhe, Ford, Morse, Dawkins and then we hope that some of Spain, Long, Feliciano etc warrant new contracts after 2019.  We're all cautiously optimistic that we have our QB in Allen, and we can focus on RB/WR next offseason/draft.

 

It’s not just trading a top 20 pick.  It’s losing out on a 1st rd talent under our control for 5+ years at a cheap salary WHILE also paying a pass rusher that doesn’t get many sacks or forced fumbles 20-+ mill a year.  20 mill a year is a huge asset.  As is the 1st rd pick.  Meanwhile clowney isn’t even as good as our own Jerry Hughes imo.  Sure, he looks the part.  We’d be hoping that he learns how to play the part.  Too much risk considering where our team is.  I would’ve rather paid the price for Frank Clark.  At least he produces 

[Cornette's Commentary]

5 minutes ago, BigBuff423 said:

Hard to see Beane parting ways with a 1st, in any year - he didn't do it for Josh Allen or Tremaine Edmunds, hard to see him doing it for Clowney that will also need a big contract. However a 3rd and Lawson would make sense. Yes, Houston wants more....but there has to be a market price and right now, except for maybe one or two teams, I don't think the market price bears out a 1st. A 2nd maybe...but 3rd and Lawson seems more reasonable IMO. And I'm not just saying this as a Bills fan. It could be the terrible NJ team that wears puke green and white, a 1st still seems high but....I guess we'll all wait to see if Houston makes the move or decides to keep him and let him play for his long-term value. 

In a video showing a behind the scenes look in the draft war room, it showed that they would have had to give up a 2020 4th, as part of a package to move back into the 1st for Cody Ford and Beane wouldn't do it.  That just shows you how he values future picks, which means that it's highly unlikely that he makes a trade for Clowney.

Edited May 10, 2019 by Cornette's Commentary

[IgotBILLStopay]

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/nfl-2019-here-are-seven-trades-that-make-sense-now-that-the-draft-is-over-including-a-patriots-blockbuster/

 

I would rather do the Darron Lee or Solomon Thomas trades than the Clowney trade. And even pay a bit more than what the Bengals and Bucs have been projected to pay.  Each is worth at least a 4th rounder.

 

[Woodman19]

I wouldn't for a first or second. Maybe a 3rd and 4th in back to back years.

[Bills fan in 561]

He was not miss used in Houston he was injured and raw.I watch the Texans my friend is a fan.He is soooo much better now than he was he is a force to be recond with and would instantly make this Deffence #1

[Just Joshin']

15 minutes ago, IgotBILLStopay said:

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/nfl-2019-here-are-seven-trades-that-make-sense-now-that-the-draft-is-over-including-a-patriots-blockbuster/

 

I would rather do the Darron Lee or Solomon Thomas trades than the Clowney trade. And even pay a bit more than what the Bengals and Bucs have been projected to pay.  Each is worth at least a 4th rounder.

 

No to Lee - has not performed to the level required.  If not a bust, he is on the train to being a bust.  He was a bad draft pick by a bad GM.

 

Thomas - also has under performed but maybe able to do better in the right scheme.

[clearwater cadet]

if we trade our 2020 first round pick it would be the 32 overall.  So its amost a 2nd.

[YoloinOhio]

19 minutes ago, IgotBILLStopay said:

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/nfl-2019-here-are-seven-trades-that-make-sense-now-that-the-draft-is-over-including-a-patriots-blockbuster/

 

I would rather do the Darron Lee or Solomon Thomas trades than the Clowney trade. And even pay a bit more than what the Bengals and Bucs have been projected to pay.  Each is worth at least a 4th rounder.

 

No way. Not even worth a pick to me, really. Kid has serious issues. Just leave that one alone. 

Edited May 10, 2019 by YoloinOhio

[Bray Wyatt]

Any time I see Yolo replying to this thread I expect a tweet saying we are trading for clowney 

[SoCal Deek]

After we win the Super Bowl that first round pick will be more like a high second rounder! ?

[BADOLBILZ]

 

Normally I'd be fine with giving up the first in this situation.

 

But it's gotta' be a 2nd and something else at this point.   Maybe a 4th.   Shaq has like 5th or 6th round value at best due to his combination of "meh" football and pending free agency.   From the Texans perspective he'd just a roster sub like Jordan Matthews in the Darby trade but that COULD help facilitate a trade.

 

It's a critical year for McBeane regime...........if they go 7-9 or 8-8 "the process" is going to look like a sham.

 

But job #1 is making Josh Allen great...........and since they swung-small/bunted in rounds 2 and 3 on draft day this year they will have a near certain need at WR1 and next years draft is going to be loaded with WR1 types. 

 

Should be like the 1996 or 2014 WR classes.......utterly loaded with difference makers..........and since 2014 most of the WR classes have been BAD so they gotta' try to hang onto that #1.

[freddyjj]

OK I will bite.  Trade based on reaching agreement on contract with Clowney prior to trade.

 

My best offer is a 2020 3rd rounder, Shaq Lawson and Teller or Bodine.  Houston needs OL help on interior.   

Edited May 10, 2019 by freddyjj

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, BubbaT said:

Clowney is a good but not great pass rusher. He's  better than Lawson in that regard but has the benefit of playing opposite JJ Watt who draws a lot of attention. Under no circumstances would I give up a  pick in the first 2 days for him. His salary will be high and might limit you in the future as well. I'd pass on him. DE might be priority #1 next year in the draft.

 

 

Clowney may be the quickest/fastest straight line DL to ever play in the NFL.

 

That signature play against Michigan in college has translated to the pro's.........he can blow up plays from the inside like nobody else.

 

His edge rush is a work in progress.    Needs to get better with his hands to get more efficient to the QB so he can turn pressures into sacks.

 

But that technique is often something that rushers get much better at over time.

 

 It's risky to project a player to get better in the second half of his career........injuries happen..........but he really has a good deal of untapped potential yet, IMO.

 

And while he is not a great pass rusher yet he is a great disruptor and very versatile.

 

I could see him kicking inside with Lorax playing end in obvious pass downs.    He really could help McD take his defense to another level of complexity as well. 

Edited May 10, 2019 by BADOLBILZ

[freddyjj]

Just now, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Clowney may be the quickest/fastest straight line DL to ever play in the NFL.

 

That signature play against Michigan in college has translated to the pro's.........he can blow up plays from the inside like nobody else.

 

His edge rush is a work in progress.    Needs to get better with his hands to get more efficient to the QB so he can turn pressures into sacks.

 

But that technique is often something that rushers get much better at over time.

 

 It's risky to project a player to get better in the second half of his career........injuries happen..........but he really has a good deal of untapped potential yet, IMO.

 

And while he is not a great pass rusher yet he is a great disruptor and very versatile.

 

I could see him kicking inside on with Lorax playing end in obvious pass downs.    He really could help McD take his defense to another level of complexity as well. 

Good insight here.

To disrupt NFL quick release offenses today on the passing downs, need interior pressure ASAP.  A White Lightning rush package of Zo/Murphy, Clowney, Oliver and Hughes could do the trick.  

To pay him what he would want and trade a pick and player(s) I would hope he could be effective in his rush from the left side of D too.  

[Rocbillsfan1]

No way in hell you give up a first and a decent player to get a guy with an injury history and pay him 20 million a year. That’s a terrible idea. A second I would consider though. You never know if Allen gets hurt and we end up with the first pick this trade would look like the worst trade in history. You should never give away future first for non qbs or don’t have an established franchise qb in place, sorry but Allen ain’t there yet. 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

https://www.buffalobills.com/news/quick-hits-3-updates-from-sean-mcdermott-s-rookie-minicamp-press-conference

 

1. Shaq and I are on the same page

Bills head coach Sean McDermott addressed the team’s decision not to pick up the fifth-year option on former first-round pick Shaq Lawson.

McDermott made it clear that the club and Lawson are comfortable with where things stand right now.

 

“The critical piece to that is we’ve had communications with Shaq and we are on the same page with where we are and how we view Shaq,” he said. “This doesn’t necessarily mean that after this year that we’re going to go our separate ways. We like where he is and the work he’s put in of late. I think the critical piece is we’re on the same page with where we are and where he is.”

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

8 minutes ago, freddyjj said:

Good insight here.

To disrupt NFL quick release offenses today on the passing downs, need interior pressure ASAP.  A White Lightning rush package of Zo/Murphy, Clowney, Oliver and Hughes could do the trick.  

To pay him what he would want and trade a pick and player(s) I would hope he could be effective in his rush from the left side of D too.  

 

 

Factor in Edmunds there too.

 

I'd love to see someone else be able to take over that MLB position and allow Edmunds to play Lorax position.    

 

But even is he stays inside imagine being able to bring Oliver, Clowney and Edmunds up the middle.    Could blitz Edmunds and drop Clowney OR Oliver back into a zone.  Just a lot of pass rush potential there.    Clowney could be a real catalyst for the defense, IMO.

 

But all that said..........you still gotta' have the assets to make Josh Allen great.   

 

I don't think anyone would trade a first for Clowney and then pay him $21M per year.    A second and a fourth might do it.

[Cornette's Commentary]

7 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Factor in Edmunds there too.

 

I'd love to see someone else be able to take over that MLB position and allow Edmunds to play Lorax position.    

 

But even is he stays inside imagine being able to bring Oliver, Clowney and Edmunds up the middle.    Could blitz Edmunds and drop Clowney OR Oliver back into a zone.  Just a lot of pass rush potential there.    Clowney could be a real catalyst for the defense, IMO.

 

But all that said..........you still gotta' have the assets to make Josh Allen great.   

 

I don't think anyone would trade a first for Clowney and then pay him $21M per year.    A second and a fourth might do it.

Beane didn't want to give up a 2020 4th, as part of a package to trade back into the 1st for Cody Ford.  Why would he want to trade a 2nd AND a 4th for an overhyped DE who wants to be paid based on that hype?

[BADOLBILZ]

1 minute ago, Cornette's Commentary said:

Beane didn't want to give up a 2020 4th, as part of a package to trade back into the 1st for Cody Ford.  Why would he want to trade a 2nd AND a 4th for an overhyped DE who wants to be paid based on that hype?

 

 

Because Clowney is an established, highly productive player at a position where the objective is to beat the man in front of you............and Ford plays a position where a stalemate is good.

 

I know you are just a troll-bot but yeah pass rusher over guard with RT flexibility every day.

 

[YoloinOhio]

15 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

 

 

Sounds like exactly what he said before trading Watkins 

[msw2112]

I haven't read all 5 pages of this thread, so I don't know what's been said, but I don't think Clowney is a good fit for the Bills.  He's an extremely talented guy, but he will command top dollar and Beane is very judicious with managing the cap.  Clowney also has a history of playing below his potential, whether it is due to injury, disinterest, etc.  His 2nd to last year in college he was a beast, then dropped off his final year, but still went #1 overall due to his off-the-charts physical talents.  He's been inconsistent with the Texans.  When he's "on," he's among the best, but he's not always on.  Giving up a lot of assets and paying top dollar doesn't seem to make sense here.  He's not quite Marcel Dareus (and he's obviously in much better shape), but I could see some of that kind of unrealized potential happening with Clowney.

[JohnBonhamRocks]

Absolute highest I’d go is 2nd and Lawson for Clowney. He’s good, but he’s no surefire 16-game starting superstar. Regardless of what we think of the prospects for the draft that’s 11 months away, a 1st is too high imho for a player with some question marks.

[Iamkrgr]

Zero chance I move the 1st rounder. As optimistic as I am with this roster currently I still don't trust them. Allen still has a ton to prove this season and other teams will have more tape on him. This will be a make or break season for him and I'd be damned if we finish bottom 5 without having a draft pick. 

 

Lawson + 2nd rounder is fair imo. If another team pays a 1st that's fine with me. I don't trust out offense enough this season to trade a potential top pick. 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

4 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Sounds like exactly what he said before trading Watkins 

 

I guess coach speak is never out of season  

[BADOLBILZ]

1 minute ago, ScottLaw said:

Unless they are trading for a better replacement why would they trade Shaq?

 

 

Why did they trade Watkins and then trade most of the value they got back for him for KB after already playing half a season without a WR who could get open?

 

McBeane heart wants what it wants.

 

Fortunately,  to paraphrase Belichick..........you gotta' make bad decisions all the time to stay bad in the NFL.   You just gotta' make "enough" good ones to be competitive.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

7 minutes ago, msw2112 said:

I haven't read all 5 pages of this thread, so I don't know what's been said, but I don't think Clowney is a good fit for the Bills.  He's an extremely talented guy, but he will command top dollar and Beane is very judicious with managing the cap.  Clowney also has a history of playing below his potential, whether it is due to injury, disinterest, etc.  His 2nd to last year in college he was a beast, then dropped off his final year, but still went #1 overall due to his off-the-charts physical talents.  He's been inconsistent with the Texans.  When he's "on," he's among the best, but he's not always on.  Giving up a lot of assets and paying top dollar doesn't seem to make sense here.  He's not quite Marcel Dareus (and he's obviously in much better shape), but I could see some of that kind of unrealized potential happening with Clowney.

Mario seemed a good fit and commanded top $

Dareus seemed a good fit and commanded top $

Fitz seemed a good fit and commanded top $

Edited May 10, 2019 by ShadyBillsFan

[BADOLBILZ]

1 minute ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

 

I guess coach speak is never out of season  

 

 

I'm not sure if it's nonsense or not...........where teef at when you need him?

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

1 minute ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I'm not sure if it's nonsense or not...........where teef at when you need him?

   @teef  is probably eating cake

Edited May 10, 2019 by ShadyBillsFan

[DrDawkinstein]

1 hour ago, Cornette's Commentary said:

I don't understand this fanbase's obsession with wanting to trade away what could be high future picks for a guy who they remember from an epic highlight reel tackle in a bowl game from 6 years ago, but hasn't done squat in the NFL.

 

Off the top of my head, the recent trades which involved giving up a future 1st round pick were for:

Rob Johnson

Drew Bledsoe

JP Losman

Sammy Watkins

 

None of them were worth it. Even with Bledsoe's 1 or 2 decent years.

 

Especially considering that if we held onto those picks, we could have had:

Fred Taylor, Randy Moss, or Tra Thomas in 1998

Troy Polamalu in 2003

Aaron Rodgers in 2005

(2015 draft kinda sucked, so no one there)

[offyourocker]

3 hours ago, Buddy Hix said:

I think it’s too risky to give up 1st round picks without knowing what we have in Josh Allen, and the entire offensive unit. 

 

If it was a sure thing that Allen and the O would take a big step forward this season, it might be worthwhile. But if things go the other way than this trade ends up being a big mistake.

would be hating life next year if we traded our first and Allen does not show progress

[SWATeam]

11 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Why did they trade Watkins and then trade most of the value they got back for him for KB after already playing half a season without a WR who could get open?

 

McBeane heart wants what it wants.

 

Fortunately,  to paraphrase Belichick..........you gotta' make bad decisions all the time to stay bad in the NFL.   You just gotta' make "enough" good ones to be competitive.

This is inaccurate.  They got a 2nd and Gaines for Sammy.  They used the 2nd to move up for Allen.  They spent a third on KB, which was obviously a disaster of a deal.  Funny how people often mention this deal but not, say, the Tyrod trade...

[C.Biscuit97]

4 hours ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

cbs writer says trade a first and a lawson, what a clown.

 

logical, ha!

I know, why would the Texans do that?  It’s just funny how big Of homers some fans are.  Lawson has very low trade value since we didn’t give him the 5th year.  The Texans have SB talent so why would they just give away a big part of their team?

 

But yeah, float the Texans a conditional 7th, Lawson, and our second string P and see what they say.  

[BADOLBILZ]

23 minutes ago, SWATeam said:

This is inaccurate.  They got a 2nd and Gaines for Sammy.  They used the 2nd to move up for Allen.  They spent a third on KB, which was obviously a disaster of a deal.  Funny how people often mention this deal but not, say, the Tyrod trade...

 

 

It's accurate.

 

You don't like it.........but it's accurate.

 

They traded Watkins for a second and Gaines.......an oft injured player who didn't fit their new scheme that the Rams were done with and throwing in.    Very similar to Jordan Matthews..........who the Eagles found they couldn't GIVE away for any kind of draft compensation after months of trying.    

 

Then after wasting half of a season trying to not throw the ball because nobody was open.........they traded their 3rd and 7th round picks for KB, to be accurate..........who was then almost useless for his entire tenure in Buffalo. 

 

So the net difference in the picks swapped for KB and Watkins was 29 spots between round 2 and round 3.

 

That's it.

 

Plus whatever a full season of Watkins was worth at that point.........which considering he was healthy and clicking with Tyrod was quite a bit, IMO.

 

Anything Gaines provided in his limited work in his season in Buffalo they more than lost on the performance end of the Watkins/Benjamin trade.

 

And as Beane himself lamented he couldn't even maximize the value of his traded picks when moving up the board because teams knew he had better picks in hand than what he wanted to offer.

 

Tampa would have been fine with the Tyrod pick or the pick they traded for Benjamin......the Cardinals weren't offering dick to move up........but since Beane had the Watkins pick......which was 9 picks sooner than the Tyrod.......they demanded that. 

 

But even though you weren't accurate kudos for not being in the 95 percentile of apologists who think the Mahomes/Chiefs pick was used to acquire Allen.

 

 

 

 

[C.Biscuit97]

1 hour ago, JohnBonhamRocks said:

Absolute highest I’d go is 2nd and Lawson for Clowney. He’s good, but he’s no surefire 16-game starting superstar. Regardless of what we think of the prospects for the draft that’s 11 months away, a 1st is too high imho for a player with some question marks.

I would never do that if I’m the Texans.  I do think JC is overrated but he’s worth a 1st.  Lawson would be whatever to me. 

[BillsfaninSB]

Can’t give up a first.  We have no idea where we will be this year.  That 1 could be huge.   If we were a playoff contender then maybe.