WR situation is like going in with Peterman as starter last year

[Tenhigh]

2 minutes ago, Troll Toll said:

There was easily 1000+ yards of offense left on the field last year because we didn’t have guys that could reliably track and catch his deep passes.

I was going to ask why you are ignoring the addition of John Brown as a deep threat until I took a closer look at your screen name. 

[Dopey]

23 minutes ago, Troll Toll said:

I created the topic and for the typical team I would agree with you. The difference is that we have Josh Allen. He can literally make any throw on the field from anywhere within ~85 yards. He has more potential as a passer than even Patrick Mahomes. On many teams the QBs don’t have the arms to take advantage of having #1 guys. Allen would maximize a big play receivers’ potential and said receiver would help maximize Josh’s potential. #1 receiver aside, we don’t even have a reliable deep threat like Andy Isabella to take advantage of Allen’s big arm.

Foster ran a 4.41 40 and brown ran a 4.31 40. They will give Allen plenty of opportunities to go deep. We're actually a lot deeper at wr than last year and we known what these guys can do at the nfl level. Not a given that a rookie would break out and kill it. I would have been fine with a wr drafted by now, but I think we're fine. No train wreck here and the sky is still up where it should be.

Edit: You said we'll make the playoffs this year. That is NOT happening without our wr's help. If our wr's are as bad as you claim, we're not making the playoffs.

Edited April 27, 2019 by Dopey

[Troll Toll]

7 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Again they have at least two guys that can get down field fast in Foster and Brown, three if Williams pans out.  You are placing way too much emphasis on second round rookie WRs.

My emphasis is on guys that can finish the play. Running fast doesn’t mean they make the play.

[Dopey]

Just now, Troll Toll said:

My emphasis is on guys that can finish the play. Running fast doesn’t mean they make the play.

Brown can finish.

[Troll Toll]

8 minutes ago, dgrochester55 said:

Keeping the receiving group from last year with no changes would have been more comparable to sticking with Peterman than this.

 

True, there is no number clear one receiver, but there are now four options that are Capable of 50+ catches in a year.    Our WR group was historically bad last year.  You are not going to get what the Rams and Chiefs have in just one off season.   You now have two veterans with good experience, an emerging Foster and Zay Jones even showed improvement.   That is far ahead of what we had at this time last year. 

 

The WR class is not strong in the draft and I have serious doubt that any receiver would have suddenly emerged as a Antonio Brown/ODB/Julio Jones caliber target right away.   If Foster or Jones don't emerge as a number one option, I have a feeling that Buffalo will get that needed receiver in the draft next year.  

Mark my words AJ Brown will be at least as good as Jarvis Landry.

4 minutes ago, Tenhigh said:

I was going to ask why you are ignoring the addition of John Brown as a deep threat until I took a closer look at your screen name. 

Because he has failed to produce year after year. He is now on his third team for a reason.

[oldmanfan]

3 minutes ago, Troll Toll said:

My emphasis is on guys that can finish the play. Running fast doesn’t mean they make the play.

Foster finished better as the season went on. That has never been suggested as a problem for Brown.  You want to free up the long passing game?  You give the QB protection, you give him a running game to bring safeties up so you can go play action behind them.  Give him some underneath options so guys can't just drop deep to defend.  

 

You want guys that just run downfield.  We have 2 or 3 already.

Edited April 27, 2019 by oldmanfan

[Doc]

44 minutes ago, Niagara Dude said:

I think the most stupid pick was the tiny RB who ran about 4.7 in 40,  Maholmes has guys who can make big plays on the outside and Allen has nothing.  I thought this draft would focus on getting Allen a couple of playmakers or at least one.  Fans on this board must have missed last season when announcers kept repeating how the Bills receivers could not get separation.  Other than the first round pick this draft was very disappointing and out offense will suffer this season because of it,  i am sorry but i am not interested in watching Allen take off and run 10-12 times a game or more because receivers are not open down the field.  This team does not even have a legit #2 receiver let alone a true #1/

 

If this was not an issue then why was Beane trying to trade for head case WR Brown,

 

13 minutes ago, Troll Toll said:

That’s not what I’m saying. I’m saying they should have traded back into the 2nd and drafted a receiver that will maximize Allen’s talent. Brown, Metcalf, Isabella all could have done that. Foster is unreliable deep. He loses sight of the balls in the air, doesn’t have the extra gear to get his hands on the slight overthrows and bobbles every other deep pass.

 

I can only assume you two a) didn't see Foster play in the 2nd half of last season, b) have never seen John Brown play, and c) have never seen Cole Beasley play.  They can all get separation and even Beasley can get downfield.

[Big Gun]

1 hour ago, Mrbojanglezs said:

People keep forgetting about Duke Williams

Yup, Williams, Beasley, Foster, Jones, Brown, Tyler Kroft who catches well at TE.

 

I think the ball will be caught plenty by these guys, IMO Allen goes for 4500 and 30+ this year WR won't be an issue.

 

Comparing it like NP situation last year is nonsense and stupid!

[transient]

48 minutes ago, Niagara Dude said:

If this was not an issue then why was Beane trying to trade for head case WR Brown, 

 

Because he’s smart enough to realize he would have been getting HOF talent at a fire sale price?

[Luka]

1 minute ago, Troll Toll said:

My emphasis is on guys that can finish the play. Running fast doesn’t mean they make the play.

 

Williams was the number 1 receiver in the CFL last year, an extremely pass heavy league. Has had a couple years to mature past his college issues. Is certainly one of those guys that can track and high point a football down the field. Once Foster came back from being cut he was the most productive rookie wide receiver in the NFL over the last 7 games and was good for at least 1 big play per game. And you mentioned Allen making him looking good but he played with Barkley as well and had 3 catches for 105 yards.

[Big Gun]

4 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

 

I can only assume you two a) didn't see Foster play in the 2nd half of last season, b) have never seen John Brown play, and c) have never seen Cole Beasley play.  They can all get separation and even Beasley can get downfield.

I read somewhere Beasley was a 3rd down machine for Dallas. Kind of like an Edelman/Welker guy. That will be tremendously helpful for Allen.

[Troll Toll]

3 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

 

I can only assume you two a) didn't see Foster play in the 2nd half of last season, b) have never seen John Brown play, and c) have never seen Cole Beasley play.  They can all get separation and even Beasley can get downfield.

John Brown’s 43% catch percentage puts him as almost the worst in the league, Robert Foster is marginally better at 60%. Michael Thomas topped the league at 85% for reference. As I’ve said, we need someone who can finish. Our receivers couldn’t finish deep last year and that will remain an issue this year despite the optics of signing a fast guy in John Brown.

[berg1029]

With the FA pick ups, the situation isn't that dire imo.  John Brown and Cole Beasley were great additions.  Add to that the two WRs that we had last year that played okay (Zay and Foster) and we're okay.  Certainly not great, but definitely much better off than last year.  

[Mojo44]

16 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

They. Are. Not. Top. Receiver. Prospects.  

 

They would have gone day one if that was the case.

 And, this is precisely why your OP was hyperbole, a melodramatic overreaction. This is why no wide receivers were taken in the first two rounds. There was no BPA/value when they picked. Would you rather have Cody Ford or a WR rated lower? It’s just a bad year for them. A team can’t filll every single need in the first three rounds of a draft. Let it play out. The wide receiver corps will be just fine when the season starts

[billsfan1959]

8 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

 

I can only assume you two a) didn't see Foster play in the 2nd half of last season, b) have never seen John Brown play, and c) have never seen Cole Beasley play.  They can all get separation and even Beasley can get downfield.

I think it is safer to assume they did not get what they wanted and they are going to let everyone know how unhappy there are...over...and over...

 

Facts do not matter as much as the need to express their unhappiness

[NewEraBills]

While I don't completely agree that it is a train wreck, I do think this could become an issue going into the season.  I'll wait to see how they structure the WR depth chart, but as far as talent, it's not a very talented wide out group.

[Doc]

3 minutes ago, pop gun said:

I read somewhere Beasley was a 3rd down machine for Dallas. Kind of like an Edelman/Welker guy. That will be tremendously helpful for Allen.

 

He was.  And he should be.

 

1 minute ago, Troll Toll said:

John Brown’s 43% catch percentage puts him as almost the worst in the league, Robert Foster is marginally better at 60%. Michael Thomas topped the league at 85% for reference. As I’ve said, we need someone who can finish. Our receivers couldn’t finish deep last year and that will remain an issue this year despite the optics of signing a fast guy in John Brown.

 

Again Foster was a completely different receiver in the 2nd half of the season than the first half.  And catch percentage depends on a lot of factors, just like completion percentage does.

[Troll Toll]

6 minutes ago, Mojo44 said:

 And, this is precisely why your OP was hyperbole, a melodramatic overreaction. This is why no wide receivers were taken in the first two rounds. There was no BPA/value when they picked. Would you rather have Cody Ford or a WR rated lower? It’s just a bad year for them. A team can’t filll every single need in the first three rounds of a draft. Let it play out. The wide receiver corps will be just fine when the season starts

Juju, Cooper Kupp, Michael Thomas, Jarvis Landry, Robert Woods are all top flight NFL receivers that were drafted recently in Round 2.

[Turk71]

35 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

They. Are. Not. Top. Receiver. Prospects.  

 

They would have gone day one if that was the case.

That's ridiculous. GMs are far from infallible. Some of the top receivers in the league were drafted day 2 and 3, including Antonio Brown in the 5th. Was he not a top prospect simply because GMs missed it?

  Not supporting or defending the OPs premise, but what you said is simply not true.

Edited April 27, 2019 by Turk71

[oldmanfan]

4 minutes ago, Troll Toll said:

Juju, Cooper Kupp, Michael Thomas, Jarvis Landry, Robert Woods are all top flight NFL receivers that were drafted recently in Round 2.

Fair point.  Although some are possession guys and not the deep threat you claim we need.

[Canadian Bills Fan]

Your user name perfectly suits you

[oldmanfan]

Just now, Turk71 said:

That's ridiculous. GMs are far from infallible. Some of the top receivers in the league were drafted day 2 and 3, including Antonio Brown in the 5th. Was he not a top prospect simply because GMs missed it?

  Not supporting or defending the OPs premise, but you said is simply not true.

I think you do not understand the word prospects.  Every guy drafted is a prospect.  Some are more highly rated prospects, but the draft is an inexact exercise.

[jimmy10]

2 hours ago, Troll Toll said:

It is the train wreck everyone sees coming. So many of the top receivers were there for the taking with a trade up into the 2nd. Is Cole Beasly our top receiver? We have nobody that can consistently win on the outside. We don’t have guys that align with Allen’s skillset. The Titans now have Corey Davis AND AJ Brown. Allen would kill it with those guys. Buffalo definitely could have made some trade to get Brown. Instead, I don’t know if their 3rd round picks make the team in 2 years.

 

I understand that you can’t fix a broken offense like ours was in one offseason, but I feel like they are setting up Allen to struggle... again! Allen needs someone that can track and catch his deep throws, otherwise teams will cheat towards the LoS again. It’s just frustrating knowing Allen has no shot of realizing his full potential this year.

 

Username checks out. 

[formerlyofCtown]

2 hours ago, Troll Toll said:

It is the train wreck everyone sees coming. So many of the top receivers were there for the taking with a trade up into the 2nd. Is Cole Beasly our top receiver? We have nobody that can consistently win on the outside. We don’t have guys that align with Allen’s skillset. The Titans now have Corey Davis AND AJ Brown. Allen would kill it with those guys. Buffalo definitely could have made some trade to get Brown. Instead, I don’t know if their 3rd round picks make the team in 2 years.

 

I understand that you can’t fix a broken offense like ours was in one offseason, but I feel like they are setting up Allen to struggle... again! Allen needs someone that can track and catch his deep throws, otherwise teams will cheat towards the LoS again. It’s just frustrating knowing Allen has no shot of realizing his full potential this year.

If only we addressed this in Free Agency.

[Mojo44]

6 minutes ago, Troll Toll said:

Juju, Cooper Kupp, Michael Thomas, Jarvis Landry, Robert Woods are all top flight NFL receivers that were drafted recently in Round 2.

 All that matters is this year! It was in a single wide receiver of that quality that you mentioned in this post available. Again, a very weak year for wide receivers. Honestly, you don’t seem to be getting this. Look, remember all the hype about DK ? But, why do you think he wasn’t taken until the 64th pick? Because all of the teams knew he’s way too much of a risk. Just a down year. I can see them making a value pack on day three. Maybe someone like Jamal Custis of Syracuse.

[billsfan1959]

The wide receiver position is not, I'm sure, where the team would like it to be, nor where most fans would like it to be. However, it is not nearly as dire as the OP and others are claiming. Beane clearly recognizes the need to upgrade the position as evidenced by considering a trade for Antonio Brown. My own personal opinion is that he is not done addressing the position.

 

With that said, the most efficient way to help Allen improve his play this year is to give him a strong Oline and running game. Those two things alone will allow him to use his strengths (throwing downfield, play action, etc) while he develops / refines other skills / abilities. It will also make the receivers they currently have on the team better.

 

I would have loved taking a chance on DK Metcalf or one of the other top receivers in this class; however, I believe the Bills got better value and addressed more foundational needs with the picks they made.

 

Wide receiver upgrades will eventually happen. Beane has done a good job so far.

 

Rome wasn't built in a day. We'll see how it plays out on the field, but, in my opinion, this team is so much further ahead now than they were at the end of last year - and it will only get better.

[Turk71]

Just now, oldmanfan said:

I think you do not understand the word prospects.  Every guy drafted is a prospect.  Some are more highly rated prospects, but the draft is an inexact exercise.

That's exactly my point, the people grading these prospects are often wrong.

[FLFan]

2 minutes ago, Canadian Bills Fan said:

Your user name perfectly suits you

It certainly does.  People should just ignore this newby troll and move on.  

[C.Biscuit97]

Maybe the way the OP started the thread comes across bad but he has a point.  And before I get called a “hater” because I don’t praise every Bills pick, Oliver was my favorite Bills pick in years and while not my first choice, I like the Cody Ford choice, especially with his mindset.

 

but are we sure this regime can judge receiving talent:

 

- Jordan Matthews

- trading multiple picks for Kelvin Benjamin 

- trading up for Zay

- “discovering” Robert Foster at Alabama and then cutting him

 

and I like some of our guys but we don’t have a number 1 receiver or TE

 

- Brown, overpaid, 646 yards/ season

- Beasley, who I love, 467 yards/ season

- Kroft, 3rd stringer because he couldn’t beat out a guy with frying pans for hands, 165 yards/ season and averaged less than 10 yards per catch the last 3 years.

 

If you had Brady, maybe this group is good enough.  But for a young qb, this is not that good of group. I trust this regime a million percent on defense.  But honestly, they kinda suck at identifying receiving talent.  

2 minutes ago, Mojo44 said:

 All that matters is this year! It was in a single wide receiver of that quality that you mentioned in this post available. Again, a very weak year for wide receivers. Honestly, you don’t seem to be getting this. Look, remember all the hype about DK ? But, why do you think he wasn’t taken until the 64th pick? Because all of the teams knew he’s way too much of a risk. Just a down year. I can see them making a value pack on day three. Maybe someone like Jamal Custis of Syracuse.

You have no idea. 2017 was a weak year for qbs supposedly.  

[oldmanfan]

Just now, Turk71 said:

That's exactly my point, the people grading these prospects are often wrong.

My point is guys get drafted based on the evaluation pre-draft.  And a lot of WRs this year just weren't ranked that high.  We'll all know in a couple years, but the OP thinks he knows now.

[scribo]

Complete nonsense of a post. Our WR corps is far superior to last years. Far! More importantly, our oline and RBs are far better this year. Far! I am very confident the Bills offense will score considerably more points in the coming season, definitely including many more through the air.

[Hebert19]

It's like people forget that robert foster was a top 10 WR over the last 6 games with no help.  Throw in brown on other side and Beasley in the slot and let's see him operate.  Plus we will have a running game this time around. 

[nedboy7]

The OP's name is appropriate. 

[Luka]

Just now, C.Biscuit97 said:

Maybe the way the OP started the thread comes across bad but he has a point.  And before I get called a “hater” because I don’t praise every Bills pick, Oliver was my favorite Bills pick in years and while not my first choice, I like the Cody Ford choice, especially with his mindset.

 

but are we sure this regime can judge receiving talent:

 

- Jordan Matthews

- trading multiple picks for Kelvin Benjamin 

- trading up for Zay

- “discovering” Robert Foster at Alabama and then cutting him

 

and I like some of our guys but we don’t have a number 1 receiver or TE

 

- Brown, overpaid, 646 yards/ season

- Beasley, who I love, 467 yards/ season

- Kroft, 3rd stringer because he couldn’t beat out a guy with frying pans for hands, 165 yards/ season and averaged less than 10 yards per catch the last 3 years.

 

If you had Brady, maybe this group is good enough.  But for a young qb, this is not that good of group. I trust this regime a million percent on defense.  But honestly, they kinda suck at identifying receiving talent.  

 

This all seems reasonable until you realize you've completely left out Williams and Knox, ignore the fact that Foster was the most productive rookie wideout in the league in the 2nd half of the season or ignore the fact that Beane flat out said you don't need a #1 wideout, you need guys that fit the scheme.

[NoHuddleKelly12]

I didn’t realize that hot takes like this weren’t just an in-season occurrence? Saying we are in the same boat as 2018 at skill positions is simply not credible. We are significantly improved on paper already, and now need to see how it all comes together in camp/games. Cheer up Charlie, last year was rock bottom. 

[BillsCuse]

I would've liked to see a WR so far, but you can tell it's a weaker class by where they've been drafted. Season doesn't start tomorrow, there will undoubtedly be cuts and trades before September if they feel they need another one.  Anyone who 

[cage]

2 hours ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

I am pleased with this draft, but sorry, I agree that we are a bit thin at wide receiver talent.

 

true that after the first two rounds number one wr talent is at a premium.  

 

However, it is not an incorrect statement to say we are made up of 2s and 3s.

 

I take the point and I liked AJ Brown as well.  However, we do have talent, coupled with a much improved OL and hopefully revitalization of the running game

 

In addition to the free agents who are all good players, we should expect improvement from Robert Foster.  I think he caught a spark and lights are turned on for him.  If we extrapolate his production in the last 7 games when he came back from the practice squad to a full season, its impressive.  Lets also assume a 10% improvement just from gaining a year of experience and going into that 2nd year.  That seems a reasonable baseline.  Coaches for years have told us that your biggest improvements come from last year's rookies.  If that stays true to form then his season might look something like this.  Is that #1 WR territory?

 

 

[BillsVet]

1 hour ago, Mrbojanglezs said:

People keep forgetting about Duke Williams

 

Who is so highly thought of they signed him to a reserve/futures contract.  I have a sense he'll struggle to separate in the NFL.  

 

1 hour ago, Niagara Dude said:

Everything about Sean is about ground and pound ,  even giving up picks to draft slow moving TE because he is a good blocker.  He plays caveman football and does not get it,  you need to make plays down the field to win games.

 

I read somewhere yesterday that the plan is to run the ball and look for spots to let Allen throw long in year 2.  With the emphasis on the ground game, I can see why McBeane went away from receivers and more toward supporting the ground game this off-season.    

 

That's the kind of strategy that lends credence to the idea McD isn't enamored with throwing the ball.  So many young QBs are developing, yet Buffalo wants to keep the reins tight on Allen.  It supports the notion this HC is not offensively innovative or a dynamic thinker there, although we shall see.      

Edited April 27, 2019 by BillsVet

[billspro]

2 hours ago, The Wiz said:

Funny you mention this because I feel like people are forgetting about Duke Williams. 

 

I don't know how his game will transition to the NFL but he's got experience and killed in the cfl. 

 

It seems like the Bills may like him more than we thought

[billsfan1959]

Just now, ScottLaw said:

Yea it's a pretty average to below average group of recievers. 

 

And if Foster flames out it will look even worse. 

 

Was really hoping they'd get creative and find a way to bring at least one really good reciever in here. 

I think Beane has been exploring ways to do just that. It wasn't exactly a bumper crop of FA WRs and I believe Oliver, Ford, and Singletary were all better value picks for this team, at this moment, than a WR would have been. IMO, Beane will continue looking for an upgrade right up into training camp. If he finds it and can obtain it at a reasonable cost, he will pull the trigger. If not, the improvements they have made on the Oline and at RB will help the group of receivers they have be better - and they look to upgrade more next year.