PromoTheRobot Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 1 hour ago, Boatdrinks said: Hmmm. I think he’s still be a dominant player when healthy, just without all the SB rings. Yes but Brady throwing to him puts him in Canton. He's not "Gronk" as a Bill. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BUNCH OF MULARKEY Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 Draft hockenson and turn the tables 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 11 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said: Yes but Brady throwing to him puts him in Canton. He's not "Gronk" as a Bill. Okay, now it’s “ as a Bill” instead of just on a different team. Point taken on Brady, but as it’s been pointed out Gonzalez didn’t have a Brady throwing to him. Sure, he’s not “ Gronk” on one of the most QB needy teams of his era. Fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 2 hours ago, Joe in Winslow said: Trollin trollin trollin Not one bit, bro. Seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said: Okay, now it’s “ as a Bill” instead of just on a different team. Point taken on Brady, but as it’s been pointed out Gonzalez didn’t have a Brady throwing to him. Sure, he’s not “ Gronk” on one of the most QB needy teams of his era. Fine. I only used the Bills as an example of a team without good QB play. It could be any of 20-25 teams. But players don't play in a vacuum. Their teammates shape their game. You couldn't do better than Brady throwing to you. Would Gronk still be Gronk if Aaron Rodgers or Peyton Manning was his QB? Probably. Edited March 25, 2019 by PromoTheRobot 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Believer Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 A positive for Gronkowski... Seems to still have his brain intact... and for us... Won’t miss him one little bit... but Brady will... Go Bills! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Success Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 Before the Tre hit: goofy, sort of likable frat boy, even though on a hated rival. After Tre hit: dirty punk, still playing for hated rival. Good riddance. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddy Hix Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 And, I feel old as hell... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 4 minutes ago, Believer said: A positive for Gronkowski... Seems to still have his brain intact... and for us... Won’t miss him one little bit... but Brady will... Go Bills! No telling though what the long-term effects of all the roids and the cumulative head trauma will have. That could be the real positive. j/k! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthNYfan Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 2 hours ago, buffalobillswin said: Just because he played for longer doesn't mean he was better. Gronk's per year stats and per game stats are much better. He's by far the best TE to ever play the game. Also hid Brady's flaws the last several years. Similar to Megatron vs rice. Incredible prime/3-5 year stretch. Entire career totals don't match up. Megatron's and gronks fires burned hotter, rice and Gonzalez burned longer. Emmit Smith and favre are also longevity guys who played very very good to great for a long time. Neither is the best ever at their position when you ask most people, but both are near the top or #1 in most statistical categories. It's a very interesting debate, happens in a lot of sports. Longevity vs quality of prime years. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 We should also pour one out for former Bill (almost) Jeremy Maclin... @Kirby Jackson Did you hit up the baby registry too? Could have swung things our way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherlock Holmes Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 3 hours ago, YoloinOhio said: He’ll have a lot more time to read now. Gronk read cave paintings... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 1 minute ago, YoloinOhio said: We should also pour one out for former Bill (almost) Jeremy Maclin... @Kirby Jackson Did you hit up the baby registry too? Could have swung things our way. ***** him too. Ravens fans here were rolling when he signed with them instead of the Bills, but I got the last laugh. Not as good as the Lee Evans last laugh, but still good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LOVEMESOMEBILLS Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 2 hours ago, buffalobillswin said: He's better than Tony Gonzalez and it isn't particularly close. I know you hate him because he plays for the pats but a quick stat comparison will tell you all you need. Don't think so, there's only 5 people who have more career receiving yards than Gonzalez, he's the only TE in the top 20. Heck Tony had almost twice the yardage as Gronk. Gronk would've never got to where Tony did even if he was still somewhat healthy. In 9 seasons Gronk failed to crack 800 yards 5 times, in 17 seasons Tony failed to hit 800 yards only 4 times. In 9 years Gronk played in 115 out of 144 games, in 17 years Tony played in 270 out of 272 games. One had a career that was almost twice as long and almost twice as good while being way more dependable. Gronk's 115 games equals a little bit more than 7 full seasons, his career was too short to compare him with the best TEs of all time.The equivalent on the WR side would be like saying Calvin Johnson was better than Jerry Rice, per game...maybe, for a career no way. Calvin, like Gronk, wasn't around long enough to be in that discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocCityRoller Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 31 minutes ago, Success said: Before the Tre hit: goofy, sort of likable frat boy, even though on a hated rival. After Tre hit: dirty punk, still playing for hated rival. Good riddance. My sentiments exactly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 4 minutes ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said: Don't think so, there's only 5 people who have more career receiving yards than Gonzalez, he's the only TE in the top 20. Heck Tony had almost twice the yardage as Gronk. Gronk would've never got to where Tony did even if he was still somewhat healthy. In 9 seasons Gronk failed to crack 800 yards 5 times, in 17 seasons Tony failed to hit 800 yards only 4 times. In 9 years Gronk played in 115 out of 144 games, in 17 years Tony played in 270 out of 272 games. One had a career that was almost twice as long and almost twice as good while being way more dependable. Gronk's 115 games equals a little bit more than 7 full seasons, his career was too short to compare him with the best TEs of all time.The equivalent on the WR side would be like saying Calvin Johnson was better than Jerry Rice, per game...maybe, for a career no way. Calvin, like Gronk, wasn't around long enough to be in that discussion. Gronk was a winner, Gonzalez was a loser. Advantage Gronk. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, Gugny said: I know I'm in the overwhelming minority, but I love Gronk. Loved watching him play; love his sense of humor. All in all, the guy played the game the way it was meant to be played and he did it better than most tight ends in the history of the game. He was great for football and I've enjoyed watching him for the past 9 years. I wish him well and look forward to seeing him in another capacity. I think he is the greatest TE in NFL history and that it ain’t even really close. Just look at his postseason stats. Edited March 25, 2019 by dave mcbride 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LOVEMESOMEBILLS Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 1 minute ago, Rico said: Gronk was a winner, Gonzalez was a loser. Advantage Gronk. So it's Tony's fault he didn't luck out and get Brady as a QB. 5 of 9 years he failed to crack 800 yards, that's pretty good but not an elite TE by any means. That's with the best QB ever throwing you the rock. Gronk wasn't the reason they were winners, Bill & Brady were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said: Don't think so, there's only 5 people who have more career receiving yards than Gonzalez, he's the only TE in the top 20. Heck Tony had almost twice the yardage as Gronk. Gronk would've never got to where Tony did even if he was still somewhat healthy. In 9 seasons Gronk failed to crack 800 yards 5 times, in 17 seasons Tony failed to hit 800 yards only 4 times. In 9 years Gronk played in 115 out of 144 games, in 17 years Tony played in 270 out of 272 games. One had a career that was almost twice as long and almost twice as good while being way more dependable. Gronk's 115 games equals a little bit more than 7 full seasons, his career was too short to compare him with the best TEs of all time.The equivalent on the WR side would be like saying Calvin Johnson was better than Jerry Rice, per game...maybe, for a career no way. Calvin, like Gronk, wasn't around long enough to be in that discussion. These are mere counting stats. No TE dominated the game like Gronk in his prime. Don’t get me wrong - Gonzalez was a terrific player. But he was nowhere near as good as Gronk. Arguing that he was better than Gronk is like arguing that Don Sutton was better than Sandy Koufax. Primes matter in evaluating a player. Also, look at Gronk’s postseason stats. Seriously. Edited March 25, 2019 by dave mcbride 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmy10 Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 Good. ***** him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said: So it's Tony's fault he didn't luck out and get Brady as a QB. 5 of 9 years he failed to crack 800 yards, that's pretty good but not an elite TE by any means. That's with the best QB ever throwing you the rock. Gronk wasn't the reason they were winners, Bill & Brady were. It's not his fault, it just is what it is. Live dave mc says, Gronk dominated, especially in big games. Gonzalez scared no one. Edited March 25, 2019 by Rico 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 2 minutes ago, Rico said: It's not his fault, it just is what it is. Live dave mc says, Gronk dominated, especially in big games. Gonzalex scared no one. Compare Gonzalez’s postseason stats with Gronk’s and pro-rate the numbers: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/G/GonzTo00.htm https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/G/GronRo00.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRA3196 Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 4 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: Compare Gonzalez’s postseason stats with Gronk’s and pro-rate the numbers: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/G/GonzTo00.htm https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/G/GronRo00.htm The stat that stands out to me is that throughout his career, Gonzalez's teams won 1 playoff game... when he was 36. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 Buh bye and good freaking riddance... Could not happen soon enough...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 1 hour ago, Believer said: A positive for Gronkowski... Seems to still have his brain intact... and for us... Won’t miss him one little bit... but Brady will... Go Bills! Really? How can you tell? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 19 minutes ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said: So it's Tony's fault he didn't luck out and get Brady as a QB. 5 of 9 years he failed to crack 800 yards, that's pretty good but not an elite TE by any means. That's with the best QB ever throwing you the rock. Gronk wasn't the reason they were winners, Bill & Brady were. Situational stats. When the Patriots needed a first down, they went to Gronk. 3rd and goal? Gronk. Dude was money. Stats tell whatever story you want them to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinceThe70s Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 1 minute ago, Rico said: The stat that stands out to me is that throughout his career, Gonzalez's teams won 1 playoff game... when he was 36. I'm not against the Gronk> Other TE's arguments, but do you think Gronk would have made one of Gonzalez's teams a playoff winner? Since when do TE's win playoff games? Kellen Winslow was a long time ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 1 minute ago, Gugny said: Situational stats. When the Patriots needed a first down, they went to Gronk. 3rd and goal? Gronk. Dude was money. Stats tell whatever story you want them to. How about this stat: the Cheaters have virtually the same winning percentage with and without the Cretin? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LOVEMESOMEBILLS Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 6 minutes ago, Gugny said: Situational stats. When the Patriots needed a first down, they went to Gronk. 3rd and goal? Gronk. Dude was money. Stats tell whatever story you want them to. Ok, Gronk caught 397 passes that got a first down, Tony caught 864 passes that netted a first down. Your stat and Tony kills him in another one. Receiving yards for a career Tony ranks 5th, Gronk ranks 104th. He only played in 115 games, not nearly enough to put him in the discussion for best TE ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddyjj Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 Glad he is getting out with full use of his faculties, as limited as they were to begin with. ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 (edited) I wish him well in retirement, both in health and happiness. We all have bad moments, for me all is forgiven. If your moment was not that egregious, your moment was probably not that intense. Retire in good health, I pray. . Edited March 25, 2019 by Augie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 4 minutes ago, SinceThe70s said: I'm not against the Gronk> Other TE's arguments, but do you think Gronk would have made one of Gonzalez's teams a playoff winner? Since when do TE's win playoff games? Kellen Winslow was a long time ago. Playing what-if can be fun, but I don't project too much what players would do if they were on other teams. I just look at the bottom line, and Gronk was a winner, big-time.. As far as TE's winning playoff games, I really don't feel like researching it but you can go back to the 2 most recent Pats SB wins and I don't know if they win either without Gronk. Well, the Rams did suck, but definitely the Falcons game. Yes, he is the greatest TE of all time, but nevertheless, I still say ***** Gronk. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 1 minute ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said: Ok, Gronk caught 397 passes that got a first down, Tony caught 864 passes that netted a first down. Your stat and Tony kills him in another one. Receiving yards for a career Tony ranks 5th, Gronk ranks 104th. He only played in 115 games, not nearly enough to put him in the discussion for best TE ever. Fair point. Though it’s become cliche, don’t they say the best ability is availability ? Gronkowski dominated for sure, but his durability takes him out of the all time best conversation imo. Is he HOF great ? Absolutely. But so was Terrell Davis. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klos63 Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 33 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: These are mere counting stats. No TE dominated the game like Gronk in his prime. Don’t get me wrong - Gonzalez was a terrific player. But he was nowhere near as good as Gronk. Arguing that he was better than Gronk is like arguing that Don Sutton was better than Sandy Koufax. Primes matter in evaluating a player. Also, look at Gronk’s postseason stats. Seriously. That's what makes him the best. His impact on games was like no other TE. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricko1112 Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 5 hours ago, Zebrastripes said: Makes sense for gronk to hang it up now. Walk away now while he can actually still walk. Yup. All the cheap shots opponents put on him game after game. He was grabbed, tackled, and pummeled on every play. 9 years of abuse and he only let his emotions get the better of him one time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinceThe70s Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 3 minutes ago, Rico said: Playing what-if can be fun, but I don't project too much what players would do if they were on other teams. I just look at the bottom line, and Gronk was a winner, big-time.. As far as TE's winning playoff games, I really don't feel like researching it but you can go back to the 2 most recent Pats SB wins and I don't know if they win either without Gronk. Well, the Rams did suck, but definitely the Falcons game. Yes, he is the greatest TE of all time, but nevertheless, I still say ***** Gronk. Ernie Banks must have sucked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 2 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said: Fair point. Though it’s become cliche, don’t they say the best ability is availability ? Gronkowski dominated for sure, but his durability takes him out of the all time best conversation imo. Is he HOF great ? Absolutely. But so was Terrell Davis. Cretin played long enough to be HOF-worthy. IMHO TD didn't. I could make a case for Jamal Lewis deserving to go in well before TD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LOVEMESOMEBILLS Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 Just now, Boatdrinks said: Fair point. Though it’s become cliche, don’t they say the best ability is availability ? Gronkowski dominated for sure, but his durability takes him out of the all time best conversation imo. Is he HOF great ? Absolutely. But so was Terrell Davis. Absolutely agree Boat, 115 games is not enough and durability was an issue with Gronk after his first 2 years. Like I said before it's like comparing Calvin Johnson(Who played 9 years) & Jerry Rice. Yards per game go to Calvin, but career easily goes to Rice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bills Blog Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 ***** him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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