Bills have interest in Seattle DE Frank Clark

[Doc Brown]

10 hours ago, CNY315 said:

 

So, they're keeping him then.

[Aussie Joe]

15 minutes ago, BillsFan1988 said:

If we're not willing to pay Hughes and Clark don't do the trade.  Doesn't make sense.  Unless we can trade Hughes for a late 2.

 

Clark is an upgrade., it makes sense to me..

 

Edited April 21, 2019 by Aussie Joe

[DCOrange]

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

....just a speculative hunch, but don't see McBeane surrendering MAJOR draft capital AND $20+ mil/yr.............

[Rufridr101]

Adam Schaefer tweet is for the jets crap or get off the pot. They have to trade back from 3 because they don't have a 2nd rounder. This severely hurts the jets chances at getting a good trade.  If a team knows your desperate to trade back your not gonna get the value you should.  The bills are in the driver's seat for now. The Colts and chiefs aren't giving up a first and both of them have 2nd rounders in the 60s. Pick 40 seems like the sweet spot.  We can recoup a second by trading Hughes. He's has nearly the same value in the right scheme and won't command the same money as Clark raising his value. Monday could be the day.

[eball]

18 minutes ago, Rufridr101 said:

Adam Schaefer tweet is for the jets crap or get off the pot. They have to trade back from 3 because they don't have a 2nd rounder. This severely hurts the jets chances at getting a good trade.  If a team knows your desperate to trade back your not gonna get the value you should.  The bills are in the driver's seat for now. The Colts and chiefs aren't giving up a first and both of them have 2nd rounders in the 60s. Pick 40 seems like the sweet spot.  We can recoup a second by trading Hughes. He's has nearly the same value in the right scheme and won't command the same money as Clark raising his value. Monday could be the day.

 

This makes absolutely no sense.  The whole point of acquiring Clark would be to have elite players on both sides of the line.  Hughes is still playing at an extremely high level.

 

The Schefter tweet is merely Seattle posturing.  Everyone knows they won't be able to pay Clark without gutting the roster.

 

Edited April 21, 2019 by eball

[maryland-bills-fan]

The present Bills staff is not the prior Bills staff.  (so any argument that starts with "the Bills always....").   Beane has shown that he gets impact players in the draft, which is cheap and not by paying premium prices for somebody elses castoffs.

 

[JoeF]

25 minutes ago, Rufridr101 said:

Adam Schaefer tweet is for the jets crap or get off the pot. They have to trade back from 3 because they don't have a 2nd rounder. This severely hurts the jets chances at getting a good trade.  If a team knows your desperate to trade back your not gonna get the value you should.  The bills are in the driver's seat for now. The Colts and chiefs aren't giving up a first and both of them have 2nd rounders in the 60s. Pick 40 seems like the sweet spot.  We can recoup a second by trading Hughes. He's has nearly the same value in the right scheme and won't command the same money as Clark raising his value. Monday could be the day.

If this were the scenario, It would make more sense to trade back in the first and recoup the second.

[Rufridr101]

37 minutes ago, eball said:

 

This makes absolutely no sense.  The whole point of acquiring Clark would be to have elite players on both sides of the line.  Hughes is still playing at an extremely high level.

 

The Schefter tweet is merely Seattle posturing.  Everyone knows they won't be able to pay Clark without gutting the roster.

 

They will not resign Hughes next year.  It's a swap of Hughes for Clark.  Plus maybe ziggy.  Hughes is a better player in a scheme he fits. 

28 minutes ago, JoeF said:

If this were the scenario, It would make more sense to trade back in the first and recoup the second.

Next year we loose Hughes with no return. 

[Juice_32]

1 hour ago, DCOrange said:

 

Pretty impressive when you look at it per snap like that. Good find.

[BillsFan17]

10 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said:

Gruden did not want to give a crapload of money to Khalil Mack. He isn't going to turn around and give draft picks and a crapload of money to Clark. Gruden is crazy, but not that crazy. 

Yet, they turned around and gave up assets and money to a 31 year old head case WR.

 

So, it's not out of the possibility they look to pursue Clark. 

[Rufridr101]

2 minutes ago, BillsFan17 said:

Yet, they turned around and gave up assets and money to a 31 year old head case WR.

 

So, it's not out of the possibility they look to pursue Clark. 

I think the cap becomes the issue for the raiders and they hold the fourth pick in maybe the strongest defensive draft in a decade. 

[Rampage]

3 minutes ago, BillsFan17 said:

Yet, they turned around and gave up assets and money to a 31 year old head case WR.

 

So, it's not out of the possibility they look to pursue Clark. 

To be fair Gruden is an offensive guy so maybe he sees more value in spending that money and draft capital on an offensive player. 

[Lurker]

43 minutes ago, maryland-bills-fan said:

The present Bills staff is not the prior Bills staff.  (so any argument that starts with "the Bills always....").   Beane has shown that he gets impact players in the draft, which is cheap and not by paying premium prices for somebody elses castoffs.

 

 

Clark is by no means a castoff.  The Seahawks would love to keep him but have to pay the price for drafting well and having an elite QB. 

 

If Beane thinks the Bills are ready to win now, I can see him very easily changing the MO we've seen so far--when the "process" wasn't about winning, but building a culture and foundation.

 

Not much different than Polian's trade for Biscuit.  He was a build through the draft guy as well, until he had his core in place and wasn't.

[maryland-bills-fan]

2 minutes ago, Lurker said:

 

Clark is by no means a castoff.  The Seahawks would love to keep him but have to pay the price for drafting well and having an elite QB. 

 

If Beane thinks the Bills are ready to win now, I can see him very easily changing the MO we've seen so far--when the "process" wasn't about winning, but building a culture and foundation.

 

Not much different than Polian's trade for Biscuit.  He was a build through the draft guy as well, until he had his core in place and wasn't.

$13,000,000 plus draft picks is a lot of coin.

[wppete]

No way Beane gives up a 1st round pick for Clark. Maybe a second and Shaq or Trent Murphy and that is a lot. 

[Lurker]

51 minutes ago, maryland-bills-fan said:

$13,000,000 plus draft picks is a lot of coin.

 

https://www.profootballhof.com/football-history/trick-or-trade/

 

TRADED

Greg Bell, RB

No. 1 – 1988

No. 1 – 1989

No. 2 – 1989

 

RECEIVED

Rights to Cornelius Bennett, LB

 

Bennett then agreed to a five-year deal worth $4 million, including a bonus of $1.5 milllion--the highest (at that time) for an OLB.

[Stank_Nasty]

5 hours ago, BuffAlone said:

He didn't threaten her, he insulted her for doing her job.And yes he has been clean since his 2014 conviction ( I had read an erroneous 2016 article, my bad) but nonetheless his record is a bad look for someone due to make 17 mil. Not so sure the Pegulas would even try to explain that move to the fan base. Again, great player but at a 1st rd pick plus his contract, I don't see how Buffalo sees that as a worthy contract. But what do I know

They wouldn’t need to explain the move from a behavioral aspect in the least. If they made it it would be obvious why. Top DE that has kept his nose clean as a pro. College troubles are a none issue. 

 

I agree that our 9 is too much compensation. 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

1 hour ago, Rufridr101 said:

They will not resign Hughes next year.  It's a swap of Hughes for Clark.  Plus maybe ziggy.  Hughes is a better player in a scheme he fits. 

Next year we loose Hughes with no return. 

 

...so you're opposed to a nice two year extension?......

[TheBeaneBandit]

I wonder if our 3rd and our 2nd picks in round 4 and 5 would do it.........

[Rufridr101]

41 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...so you're opposed to a nice two year extension?......

Yes because poor production in this style defense.  He's a speed rusher for a wide 9 or a linebacker in a 34. He's a fifteen sack guy in right scheme.  Jim Schwartz or Mike pettine he's more valuable to them than us because of what he'll produce in those schemes. Beano won't invest what Jerry is worth in this scheme. 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

5 minutes ago, Rufridr101 said:

Yes because poor production in this style defense.  He's a speed rusher for a wide 9 or a linebacker in a 34. He's a fifteen sack guy in right scheme.  Jim Schwartz or Mike pettine he's more valuable to them than us because of what he'll produce in those schemes. Beano won't invest what Jerry is worth in this scheme. 

 

 

 

...what do you think Hughes would be looking for from McBeane as far as dollars?...mid-teens?.......if so, is he worth it?.......he has cleaned up his dumb penalties and is playing at a higher level IMO.............

Edited April 21, 2019 by OldTimeAFLGuy

[Beast]

1 hour ago, wppete said:

No way Beane gives up a 1st round pick for Clark. Maybe a second and Shaq or Trent Murphy and that is a lot. 

 

That’s a lot for a game changing d-end?

 

Ummm, OK.

 

He would be the best d-end in a Bills uniform since Bruce Smith.

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, Lurker said:

 

https://www.profootballhof.com/football-history/trick-or-trade/

 

TRADED

Greg Bell, RB

No. 1 – 1988

No. 1 – 1989

No. 2 – 1989

 

RECEIVED

Rights to Cornelius Bennett, LB

 

Bennett then agreed to a five-year deal worth $4 million, including a bonus of $1.5 milllion--the highest (at that time) for an OLB.

 

 

At the time,  Bennett was supposed to be the second coming of Lawrence Taylor.

 

That's to say even better than Khalil Mack.

 

[Beast]

Right now I’d swap 1sts with Seattle and give them our 2nd rounder. 

 

 

[Lurker]

8 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

At the time,  Bennett was supposed to be the second coming of Lawrence Taylor.

 

That's to say even better than Khalil Mack.

 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

11 minutes ago, Binghamton Beast said:

Right now I’d swap 1sts with Seattle and give them our 2nd rounder. 

 

 

..thinkin' the thud I heard was McBeane hitting the floor in full cardiac arrest...

[Pbomb]

19 minutes ago, Rufridr101 said:

Yes because poor production in this style defense.  He's a speed rusher for a wide 9 or a linebacker in a 34. He's a fifteen sack guy in right scheme.  Jim Schwartz or Mike pettine he's more valuable to them than us because of what he'll produce in those schemes. Beano won't invest what Jerry is worth in this scheme. 

So basically you look at the number of sacks to determine a defensive ends productivity. Who cares about all the qb pressures and hits he gets

[poblano]

15 minutes ago, Binghamton Beast said:

Right now I’d swap 1sts with Seattle and give them our 2nd rounder. 

 

 

Right now Seattle has advantage but wait to the franchise tender deadline, i'll not be surprised if he is traded for  a three or four during draft

[BADOLBILZ]

12 minutes ago, Lurker said:

 

 

Yeah I saw it.    I like Frank Clark and he fits the payroll right, IMO.   I want to pay NOW for impact because if all goes well the Bills will have 3 stud former 1st rounders to re-up for around $70M in cap space over 2020-2021.   

 

But Seattle drafted him at a discount though because of his character issues and the general belief league wide is more money only exposes more of what your nature is.    So there is going to be concern over his character issues re-surfacing.   I think they have to in-turn deal him at a discount.   Can't see anyone giving them a first or even a 10 pick swap of firsts.    And those cheap rookie contracts are a valuable commodity to teams with $35M QB's so I expect they will take what they can get.

 

In short acquiring him involves:

 

1) Draft pick compensation

2) Gotta' negotiate a new deal under gun for approx $20M per year for 5 years

3) Risk.   Use maybe your "1" bad character exemption on him and worry about him becoming a problem.

 

That's a lot to digest for a draft week trade.

[Rufridr101]

16 minutes ago, Pbomb said:

So basically you look at the number of sacks to determine a defensive ends productivity. Who cares about all the qb pressures and hits he gets

Close but no cigar doesn't cut it in the not for long league.  Jerry doesn't posses the power to bull rush the tackle into the quarterback. It take leverage that comes from length.  I like Jerry just not in this defense.  

38 minutes ago, Binghamton Beast said:

Right now I’d swap 1sts with Seattle and give them our 2nd rounder. 

 

 

It won't take that much and if it does no deal. 

[Beast]

20 minutes ago, Rufridr101 said:

Close but no cigar doesn't cut it in the not for long league.  Jerry doesn't posses the power to bull rush the tackle into the quarterback. It take leverage that comes from length.  I like Jerry just not in this defense.  

It won't take that much and if it does no deal. 

 

So, you think we can do better drafting at 9 and in the second than we could with Seattle’s first and Clark?

 

I find that highly unlikely.

[thebandit27]

36 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Yeah I saw it.    I like Frank Clark and he fits the payroll right, IMO.   I want to pay NOW for impact because if all goes well the Bills will have 3 stud former 1st rounders to re-up for around $70M in cap space over 2020-2021.   

 

But Seattle drafted him at a discount though because of his character issues and the general belief league wide is more money only exposes more of what your nature is.    So there is going to be concern over his character issues re-surfacing.   I think they have to in-turn deal him at a discount.   Can't see anyone giving them a first or even a 10 pick swap of firsts.    And those cheap rookie contracts are a valuable commodity to teams with $35M QB's so I expect they will take what they can get.

 

In short acquiring him involves:

 

1) Draft pick compensation

2) Gotta' negotiate a new deal under gun for approx $20M per year for 5 years

3) Risk.   Use maybe your "1" bad character exemption on him and worry about him becoming a problem.

 

That's a lot to digest for a draft week trade.

 

Indeed.

 

That, and the Beane-Gaine relationship, are why I'd expect a deal for Clowney before I'd expect one for Clark.

[ColoradoBills]

3 hours ago, Rufridr101 said:

They will not resign Hughes next year.  It's a swap of Hughes for Clark.  Plus maybe ziggy.  Hughes is a better player in a scheme he fits. 

Next year we loose Hughes with no return. 

 

I see your point about Hughes but I don't think any of us know what his worth is in Beane and McDermott's minds.

Getting "return" is not priority 1.  But if Hughes does leave in FA you could make an argument for a comp pick at least.

 

1 hour ago, Rufridr101 said:

Yes because poor production in this style defense.  He's a speed rusher for a wide 9 or a linebacker in a 34. He's a fifteen sack guy in right scheme.  Jim Schwartz or Mike pettine he's more valuable to them than us because of what he'll produce in those schemes. Beano won't invest what Jerry is worth in this scheme. 

 

Hughes has played the last few years with no other pressure being generated from the other side.

An aging meatball has also affected the DL in sack production.

I can make an argument that his sack numbers will increased by a better overall DL.

 

I don't see Hughes being traded away this year. 

[mannc]

1 hour ago, Binghamton Beast said:

Right now I’d swap 1sts with Seattle and give them our 2nd rounder. 

 

 

Absolutely not.  He can be had for our 2019 2d.  And if not, fuggetaboutit.  Seattle has little leverage here.

[Beast]

12 minutes ago, mannc said:

Absolutely not.  He can be had for our 2019 2d.  And if not, fuggetaboutit.  Seattle has little leverage here.

 

Again, tell me.....what is the likely better scenario for the Bills landing talent....

 

Keeping both our first and second round picks OR

 

Having Frank Clark and Seattle’s first round pick?

 

I don’t think there should be any debate, to be quite honest.

 

Look back on what the Bears gave up to secure Mack. What Buffalo would be giving up to secure Clark would be peanuts.

 

 

Edited April 21, 2019 by Binghamton Beast

[mannc]

My main point is that I don’t think they will have to give up that much, because I doubt any other team will offer that much, which is essentially equivalent to a first round pick.  

 

I would make the trade for a swap of first rounders, but I doubt Seattle would do it because they need more picks, not just better ones.  I might also do it for a second and a fourth, which I think would get it done.  On the other hand I thought the Raiders would be lucky to get one first round pick for K Mack, so what do I know??

[Virgil]

Considering he has to be given a new contract, one they can’t give, I don’t see how they think they have the leverage. 

 

Plus, isn’t he a suspension waiting to happen?

[Rocket94]

I know it is draft time and anything could happen, but what are the chances of Clark landing here? Gerald McCoy is intriguing as well...at 31, could he resurrect his game?

[3rdand12]

2 hours ago, Rocket94 said:

I know it is draft time and anything could happen, but what are the chances of Clark landing here? Gerald McCoy is intriguing as well...at 31, could he resurrect his game?

Both can be done.

 Seattle is asking for first. we shall see about that : )