Bean at his Witchery, Again!

[Pete]

2 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

I mean he got a 5th for AJ McCarron!! That’s crazy. I’m not sure if it’s the Raiders original 5th,  but if it is that’s at the top of the 5th.

and I can't believe some on here bitched when we traded McCarron.  Granted we had Peterman starting.  But they failed to see the comedy of receiving a 5th for AJ

Edited February 14, 2019 by Pete

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Rufridr101 said:

Tyrod in his defense just broke our playoff drought of 20+ years. Joe flaco hasn't made playoffs since Superbowl run and is often injured. 

 

He has. Twice if you include this last year once if you give that year all to Jackson (which you shouldn't).

[Logic]

1 minute ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Beane has been excellent as our GM, I for the life of me can not figure out why people cant see it.  Cracks me up at all the people who were pissing and moaning about the offense last year as if THAT offense WAS the rebuild lol.  There is a massive difference in FIELDING a team and BUILDING a team.  Last year we had to field an offense still while we dealt with the one season cap situation we HAD to go through in order to clean up the cap.  Yet people still slam him without factoring the facts and logic of the situation.  Makes me laugh ever harder when people blame things like Robert Woods not being here and KC/Mahomes trade on Beane when he was an employee of the Carolina Panthers when those things happened too.

1. Cleaned out our cap situation a year faster than he said it would take when hired.  
2. Managed to get a 2nd round pick and a player who helped us break the 17 year playoff drought for oft injured and over paid Sammy Watkins (and I really like Sammy, but facts are facts).  
3. Got Browns to give us a premium pick, first pick in 3rd round, in a deep draft for a QB no one here thought would fetch more than a 6th.
4. Wasnt afraid to make a midseason trade to try and get some WR help in KB because we were in an unexpected playoff run.  And it helped us make the playoffs as we dont win the SnowBowl game without him.  
5. Managed to trade up THREE times in the first round last year to get TWO players and DID NOT give up ANY future FIRST round picks, or any future picks at all.  I dont know thats ever been done before.
6. Found the QB of our offense of the future and the QB of our defense of the future with those trades.  
7. Had a great first draft finding great value behind those picks at other positions.
8. Found a diamond in the rough in Foster after the draft and wasnt afraid to cut dead weight at WR midseason to make room for him to get on the field.  
9. Managed to acquire even more draft assets (10 total) this year despite all the trading around last year.  
10. Still managed to field the #2 defense in the NFL DESPITE the big offensive challenges first half of the season making life really hard on the D.

And there is more than this...but what's the point.  People are still going to B***h that KB didn't ultimately workout despite that he did help us break a 17 year streak.  People are still going to whine about the offense not being good last year or the OL not being good despite we had a rookie QB who missed time, we had 2 OL with Pro Bowl resumes retire after trading our under performing LT to get into position to get Allen, etc etc.  

 

Beane is doing a great job SO FAR...he now has to show his building skills.  He is a master of building a foundation and cleaning up a bad situation getting more value than people expect for assets we are sending out.  This is the year now that the real rebuild starts around that rock solid foundation they have established.  He will ultimately be judged on the success of that, but so far, there is a LOT to love about him in my book.

 

Oh...and we broke our 17 year drought under his watch along with McD, who is another young star coach in this league who has been coaching his a** off here getting the most out of this roster.

Outstanding post. What Beane walked into was an absolute mess. He has done a TREMENDOUS job of turning things around in short order.

If people's position is "I need to see more", then I'm okay with that. But the people whose position is "he stinks, he's not doing a good job"...well, I just can't even BEGIN to understand that line of thinking.

[YoloinOhio]

26 minutes ago, Da webster guy said:

It was a good trade, although we burned that pick to move up and grab Tremaine instead of staying put and 

uh...maybe drafting LB Rashaan Evans and then using the Cleveland pick on an Olineman or something.

 

Not saying it was a bad move, only that it sort of reveals that drafting for need is a part of Beane's history.

They could have drafted Evans instead, but it was probably like installing laminate flooring that looks like hardwood instead of real hardwood when you really want the real hardwood. As you said they needed a LB - but they also need elite talent. Those guys are two different types of LBs. Bills wanted the elite talent at a position of need, and a critical position on the field - and he had acquired the asset to make it happen so he didn’t need to settle for a guy whose speed was questioned. They didn’t want a guy whose speed was questioned. See both #1s below:

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000927776/article/2018-nfl-draft-tremaine-edmunds-leads-deep-lb-class

Edited February 14, 2019 by YoloinOhio

[NoHuddleKelly12]

2 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Beane has been excellent as our GM, I for the life of me can not figure out why people cant see it.  Cracks me up at all the people who were pissing and moaning about the offense last year as if THAT offense WAS the rebuild lol.  There is a massive difference in FIELDING a team and BUILDING a team.  Last year we had to field an offense still while we dealt with the one season cap situation we HAD to go through in order to clean up the cap.  Yet people still slam him without factoring the facts and logic of the situation.  Makes me laugh ever harder when people blame things like Robert Woods not being here and KC/Mahomes trade on Beane when he was an employee of the Carolina Panthers when those things happened too.

1. Cleaned out our cap situation a year faster than he said it would take when hired.  
2. Managed to get a 2nd round pick and a player who helped us break the 17 year playoff drought for oft injured and over paid Sammy Watkins (and I really like Sammy, but facts are facts).  
3. Got Browns to give us a premium pick, first pick in 3rd round, in a deep draft for a QB no one here thought would fetch more than a 6th.
4. Wasnt afraid to make a midseason trade to try and get some WR help in KB because we were in an unexpected playoff run.  And it helped us make the playoffs as we dont win the SnowBowl game without him.  
5. Managed to trade up THREE times in the first round last year to get TWO players and DID NOT give up ANY future FIRST round picks, or any future picks at all.  I dont know thats ever been done before.
6. Found the QB of our offense of the future and the QB of our defense of the future with those trades.  
7. Had a great first draft finding great value behind those picks at other positions.
8. Found a diamond in the rough in Foster after the draft and wasnt afraid to cut dead weight at WR midseason to make room for him to get on the field.  
9. Managed to acquire even more draft assets (10 total) this year despite all the trading around last year.  
10. Still managed to field the #2 defense in the NFL DESPITE the big offensive challenges first half of the season making life really hard on the D.

And there is more than this...but what's the point.  People are still going to B***h that KB didn't ultimately workout despite that he did help us break a 17 year streak.  People are still going to whine about the offense not being good last year or the OL not being good despite we had a rookie QB who missed time, we had 2 OL with Pro Bowl resumes retire after trading our under performing LT to get into position to get Allen, etc etc.  

 

Beane is doing a great job SO FAR...he now has to show his building skills.  He is a master of building a foundation and cleaning up a bad situation getting more value than people expect for assets we are sending out.  This is the year now that the real rebuild starts around that rock solid foundation they have established.  He will ultimately be judged on the success of that, but so far, there is a LOT to love about him in my book.

 

Oh...and we broke our 17 year drought under his watch along with McD, who is another young star coach in this league who has been coaching his a** off here getting the most out of this roster.

Post of the day. Should be archived to reference each time the hot take naysayer hit parade fires up around here. Not saying they can’t and haven’t made any mistakes, because they have like anyone else; but under difficult circumstances post Rex/Whaley’s no-plan mismanagement, have made some tough decisions to try to make this team playoff caliber for years to come. 

[YoloinOhio]

7 minutes ago, Pete said:

and I can't believe some on here bitched when we traded McCarron.  Granted we had Peterman starting.  But they failed to see the comedy of receiving a 5th for AJ

Only Gruden would trade a 5th for the guy who got beaten out by Peterman. And then double down by signing Peterman too. 

Edited February 14, 2019 by YoloinOhio

[RochesterRob]

8 minutes ago, Logic said:

Outstanding post. What Beane walked into was an absolute mess. He has done a TREMENDOUS job of turning things around in short order.

If people's position is "I need to see more", then I'm okay with that. But the people whose position is "he stinks, he's not doing a good job"...well, I just can't even BEGIN to understand that line of thinking.

  People who criticize the offense from last year can't see three feet ahead of themselves on a bright sunny day.  As to the people saying there has to be playoffs this year maybe it happens and maybe it does not.  I will be happy with improved stats in sacks and running yards allowed for our defense and maintain a top 5 rating.  For the offense Allen and his receivers taking a decided move forward and hopefully a top 10 rushing attack.  Special teams becomes competent.  I think 2020 is the year that if no playoffs serious repercussions for management barring a disasterous string of injuries.

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Beane is doing a great job SO FAR...he now has to show his building skills.  

 

I think this is the crux. I wouldn't quite say "great" so far.... I think some of the moves that you are already hailing are an incomplete and I still can't let go of Peterman. There was simply no excuse, none whatsoever for having Nathan Peterman on the roster last season. It was bad enough having him on there for opening day and starting him (which was shared fault with McDermott). Not cutting him immediately after that game and giving a potential W away in Houston because of it was unforgiveable. People can say "what does it matter for the long term?" And maybe it doesn't. But it made the franchise a laughing stock of the league again after we have fought darn hard to win back credibility. People were laughing. The guys on British TV actually broke into a fit of giggles and couldn't speak - they had to cut to commercial break.

 

I think overall he has done a decent job so far - but as you yourself acknowledge in the bit I quoted. He has done the easy bit. Tearing down is the easy bit. Taking a shot at a Quarterback is the easy bit.... finding the QB is hard and if he has then he has taken a big step but rebuilding to win is much, much harder than tearing down. And it doesn't end with making the playoffs with a new team. We have seen GMs complete a teardown part complete a rebuild and then see it disintegrate quickly again - Reggie McKenzie in Oakland being the most obvious recent example.

 

I like Brandon Beane. He is my type of guy. He is rational, seems to be relatively non-emotional and is willing to set a course and stick to it. There is a lot I admire about him. But he hasn't proven himself a great GM yet. I am much more sold on Sean McDermott as a Head Coach. I think McDermott has got every single last ounce out of the two rosters he has been given to be 15-17 through two seasons. Now the emphasis is on Brandon Beane to build a roster that is truly capable of competing and not just for one year... but competing to win divisions, make the playoffs and reach the Superbowl year in year out.

[boater]

2 hours ago, JoeF said:

Terry and Kim are cheap. ?

 

Beane got a free weeks use of the Taurus for this little maneuver.

 

OMG, they are cheap. He only gets a Taurus? I'd given him a few weeks with the Beretta 92FS...it really is worth the higher cost.

[co_springs_billsfan]

2 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

I don't think you're looking at the whole picture.   Flacco has $44 million guaranteed left on his contract; Taylor had one year at, if I recall correctly, $10 million.   For all the Broncos know, Flacco may be done.  They're taking a much bigger dollar risk than the Browns took on Taylor, so they got a discount.   Or looked at it the other way, the Ravens got a fourth round pick AND dumped $44 million.   They're probably thrilled.  

I don't believe any of Flacco's remaining contract is guaranteed.

[Gugny]

2 hours ago, Rufridr101 said:

Tyrod in his defense just broke our playoff drought of 20+ years. Joe flaco hasn't made playoffs since Superbowl run and is often injured. 

 

In 11 seasons, Flacco has started 16 games in all but 2.

 

Tyrod broke the drought like Brock Osweiller got the Broncos to the Super Bowl.

[Nuncha]

Getting anything at all for BallJoint Taylor was certainly a win for the organization.

[JaBu]

3 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

I mean he got a 5th for AJ McCarron!! That’s crazy. I’m not sure if it’s the Raiders original 5th,  but if it is that’s at the top of the 5th.

 

Unfortunately it's the Steelers 5th, from the Ryan Switzer trade, that we got from the Raiders.

[apuszczalowski]

2 hours ago, Bill from NYC said:

You may not like this either e-man.......

 

I happen to think that Beane did very well wrt this trade. I think that Whaley either got hosed in virtually every deal he made, or it was ill advised. I already place Beane in a higher category that Donahoe, Whaley, Nix, or Levy.

 

That said, I must agree with BV that the McBeane combo has much more to prove. I could be wrong but I believe that the 2019 draft will tell us what we need to know about them. We will find out soon enough.

Not really setting the bar all that high with where you place Beane with that list.......

 

 

[Foxx]

3 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

I mean he got a 5th for AJ McCarron!! That’s crazy. I’m not sure if it’s the Raiders original 5th,  but if it is that’s at the top of the 5th.

i guess the question could be phrased something like.. is Beane that good or is Decosta that bad?

[YoloinOhio]

6 minutes ago, jabu said:

 

Unfortunately it's the Steelers 5th, from the Ryan Switzer trade, that we got from the Raiders.

That’s not too bad considering the Steelers didn’t make the playoffs 

[Gugny]

4 minutes ago, apuszczalowski said:

Not really setting the bar all that high with where you place Beane with that list.......

 

 

 

Overall, I think Beane is proving to be a better GM than Whaley.

 

But trading Kiko Alonso for LeSean McCoy is more brilliant than anything Beane has done thus far.

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

Overall, I think Beane is proving to be a better GM than Whaley.

 

But trading Kiko Alonso for LeSean McCoy is more brilliant than anything Beane has done thus far.

 

As was Kelvin Sheppard for Jerry Hughes.

[Bill from NYC]

10 minutes ago, apuszczalowski said:

Not really setting the bar all that high with where you place Beane with that list.......

 

 

That's for sure but ya gotta start somewhere.

 

[apuszczalowski]

2 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

It wasn’t  a big financial risk for the Browns because they had the cap space. But giving up the 1st pick in the 3rd for a one year rental, when you were planning to take a QB #1 overall as well, is a very poor use of a valuable asset and I’m still surprised it happened. 3rd rd picks are 4 year cost control players. The 1st pick in the 3rd should yield a pretty decent player, likely a starter. They traded that for one year of a guy, who if all went “right”, didn’t play. And we all know now that Hue was the one who wanted TT to play over Baker, not Dorsey, who made the trade. 

What other move were they going to make for a QB? Keenum, Cousins, etc. were looking for a long term commitment as the starter, not a place holder. Cousins was traded too, but again he was looked at as not a placeholder. They already tried for McCarron at the previous trade deadline, and they were smart enough to know that they needed an experienced veteran starter to go with the rookie.

 

So good for Beane getting a 3rd for Taylor, that move should make everyone forget the fact that the 3rd (and then the 5th for McCarron) meant we had to start the year watching Peterman fall over himself s@#*ting the bed and forced the rawest rookie QB in the draft to have to hit the ground running and be thrown to the wolves......

18 minutes ago, Azucho98 said:

Getting anything at all for BallJoint Taylor was certainly a win for the organization.

Yeah, they were much better off with Peterman and a draft pick.......

[JoeF]

30 minutes ago, boater said:

 

OMG, they are cheap. He only gets a Taurus? I'd given him a few weeks with the Beretta 92FS...it really is worth the higher cost.

Boater-- Beane had to pay for his own gas, they didn't evem give him the Noco card ....Cheap, Cheap, Cheap...

 

I can remember Mr. Wilson saying it cost him one of his Monet's to sign a pending unrestricted free agent (Can't remember which one).   Terry and Kim appear to be very generous and do everything with class.  I loved Mr. Wilson's loyalty to Buffalo, but I love Terry and Kim's loyalty, vision and willingness to invest even more.

 

 

[boater]

10 minutes ago, JoeF said:

Boater-- Beane had to pay for his own gas, they didn't evem give him the Noco card ....Cheap, Cheap, Cheap...

 

I can remember Mr. Wilson saying it cost him one of his Monet's to sign a pending unrestricted free agent (Can't remember which one).   Terry and Kim appear to be very generous and do everything with class.  I loved Mr. Wilson's loyalty to Buffalo, but I love Terry and Kim's loyalty, vision and willingness to invest even more. 

 

 

I hear ya. My post was a poor attempt at sarcasm.

 

Ralph wasn't cheap in his final years. Terry and Kim aren't cheap at all.

[Doc Brown]

We all said it was a great trade at the time.  A fourth round pick or worse is what I was expecting.  This trade just affirms that.

[JoeF]

2 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

We all said it was a great trade at the time.  A fourth round pick or worse is what I was expecting.  This trade just affirms that.

Was it witchery or was it the Browns, Doc?

[John from Riverside]

3 minutes ago, JoeF said:

Was it witchery or was it the Browns, Doc?

Does it matter?   Can it be both?

[JoeF]

6 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Does it matter?   Can it be both?

I would imagine it is both...

[Real McClappy]

Hearing that Tyrod was traded was magic to my ears before knowing what the compensation was. I was ecstatic he was off our team and I would never have to see him take a snap under center in a Bills uniform again. 

 

Later, when I heard it was the top pick in the 3rd round I was basically in disbelief how we absolutely robbed the Browns. I basically creamed myself on 3/9/18

 

Great job Beane!

[BADOLBILZ]

45 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

As was Kelvin Sheppard for Jerry Hughes.

 

Snap!

 

And signing Lorenzo Alexander and Zach Brown for like $3M combined and having one turn into a DPOY candidate who lead the NFL in sacks for most of the season and the other finish with the most tackles in the NFL, respectively.

 

As I predicted though.........he ***** up the McCoy trade by giving him that extension.

 

Would have been nice to have been able to part ways after the Eagles deal ran out in 2017 rather than witness that pathetic 3.3 npc performance in the first year of the "Bills extension" that also guaranteed $26.5M of salary(all his Eagles guarantees were gone).

 

Been decidedly less "why can't Shady play til 40" and "Shady belongs on the Wall" posts lately.   Got quiet actually. #BADOLWASRIGHT

 

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

Tyrod Taylor for a 3rd is pretty easily Beane's best trade.  

 

His worst is a 3rd+7th for Kelvin Benjamin. 

 

The rest of his trades are more or less fair for the Bills and the team we traded with. 

[DCbillsfan]

I think Beane has done a pretty good job so far.  He built up draft picks and got two big pieces in Allen and Edmunds.  Also selected Horrible Harry and Taron Johnson.  Plus picked up Levi Wallace and Robert Foster as UDFAs.

 

His first free agency was meh.  Trent Murphy and Star Lotulelei.  I'm hoping that the dead cap money was the main issue.  We'll see what happens this free agency.

 

My biggest gripe about Beane (perhaps McDermott and others) so far was the handling of qb situation last training camp.  McCarron with 4 NFL starts and Peterman with 2.  Should have had a more experienced vet in front of Allen imo.  If their plan truly was to sit Allen last season, it was poorly executed.   

 

Wr and Oline were bad last year no doubt.  McBeane inherited a poor roster and there's only so much you can do per season.  No excuse now with $80 M and 10 picks.  See what happens.

[Doc Brown]

28 minutes ago, JoeF said:

Was it witchery or was it the Browns, Doc?

The Browns.  They pry thought it was a 5th round pick until after they signed the paperwork.

[DCbillsfan]

I guess will disagree.  They had some talented players that were under performing and we're overpaid.

[GunnerBill]

9 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

They didnt inherit a poor roster.

 

For some reason this needs to be repeated over and over.

 

Yea - while the teardown was certainly one way of going about it - and if you have an ownership who really are all in on your regime (and to be fair to the Pegulas they have stayed out of Beane and McDermott's way much more than they did with Marrone, Whaley and Rex which suggests their trust in these two is real and not a whim) it is probably even the way I would go about it, but it wasn't the only way of going about it. They inherited a team that over the 3 previous years was exactly .500 and while it certainly had some less than stellar contracts - Dareus and Clay stand out - the "salary cap mess" narrative is overblown. They were not right against the cap or in a position where they were having to cut a slew of starters. That is a team in a real cap mess.

 

They could have started from the foundations of the Whaley roster and taken a shot on a QB and still built from there (indeed that first draft which I know Beane wasn't yet here for two pretty good QBs fell into their lap). I'm not saying this the way I'd have gone about it. But it was a choice. Often here it is presented like the teardown was necessity. It wasn't it was a choice. A choice I on balance agree with.... but a choice all the same.

[BADOLBILZ]

37 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Great!

 

Hopefully the witchery includes winning football games.

 

 

I guess the Corey Coleman deal was a little salary relief give-back to Dorsey for helping the ol' Beaner out on Tyrod.?

 

I understand his game is to sell the bill of goods to the fanbase and buy time.......but I don't know if we've had a GM cry wolf about salary cap woes since Donahoe.

 

It would be insulting if you didn't see exactly how many people on TSW buy the "we can't access that $80M in space until next year" nonsense.

 

 

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I guess the Corey Coleman deal was a little salary relief give-back to Dorsey for helping the ol' Beaner out on Tyrod.?

 

I understand his game is to sell the bill of goods to the fanbase and buy time.......but I don't know if we've had a GM cry wolf about salary cap woes since Donahoe.

 

It would be insulting if you didn't see exactly how many people on TSW buy the "we can't access that $80M in space until next year" nonsense.

 

 

 

They have been fantastic at spinning the "we were in salary cap hell" narrative. We were not. The Saints going back 4 or 5 offseasons when they had cut like 5 starters by mid Feb - that was a team in "salary cap hell". A team that had a few bad contracts but was still $15-20m clear of the cap ceiling is not in hell.

[BillsVet]

4 hours ago, BillsFan1988 said:

Beane has also been horrible in unrestricted free agency. 

 

Not horrible, but certainly nothing to write home about either.  He's the same guy who handed Vontae Davis a decent size deal to ostensibly start. Trent Murphy looks questionable. Star at 50M...meh.  The real good signings happened before he was GM: Hyde and Poyer were when McCoach was on his own.

 

3 hours ago, eball said:

Bill, don't you think it gets old hearing the same people say over and over again that McBeane "haven't proven anything yet" as if the rest of us are idiots?  It's ok to actually admit they've made some necessary moves, even if you don't personally agree with some of them.  Beane has overseen exactly ONE Bills draft, and that one doesn't look so bad at this point.  Of course this year is a big draft -- they all should be.

 

When they start winning division titles and/or playoff games, then they've proven their plan has worked.  Until that point, "the process" is talk.  At the minimum, they aggressively sought to draft a long term option at QB who has shown some good signs. That's more than previous regimes from 2006-2017 really mustered.

 

44 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Great!

 

Hopefully the witchery includes winning football games.

 

I've come to believe many fans measure success now not on wins, but having national sports media respect and on moves made in the off-season.  Excellence has eluded this franchise for so long that expectations have been permanently lowered.  And, in the absence of on-field success, many fans revert to hoping to just being liked.  As in, sports writer X said we're good at this or, this NFL guy likes our pick or, this outlet says our UFA signing is great.

 

It's basically redefining success to fit an unsuccessful franchise.  

[Buffalo716]

Flacco is way older and on his downside 

 

TT was coming off the playoffs... buy low/ sell high

[ddaryl]

4 hours ago, BillsFan1988 said:

Beane has also been horrible in unrestricted free agency. 

 

 

Not horrible but definitely not great. He has been fantastic at UDFA

[PromoTheRobot]

5 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

And he traded Tyrod BEFORE his 6 mill roster bonus was due. Browns had to pay it. 

 

[Bill Murray]

Am i missing something?  TT had just taken us to the playoffs.  Flacco just got benched for Lamar Jackson after missing the playoffs the three years prior.  He also is 34.  its obvious TT was worth more than Flacco.  Im surprised the Broncos traded anything for him as he would have been cut.  

Edited February 14, 2019 by Bill Murray