Build a dominant O-Line!

[RochesterRob]

2 hours ago, Bill from NYC said:

I have been posting this for 20 years. As much as we need blocking, don't count on it. A first round corner would absolutely not shock me. In fact if my life depended on making the right guess, I would expect  to say hello to the corner from LSU at #9.

 

McClapper passed on Mahomes  and Watson to draft a corner. Why wouldn't he pass on a blocker?

  Greedy would be an excellent value at slot 9.

[WideNine]

1 hour ago, Bill from NYC said:

I have been posting this for 20 years. As much as we need blocking, don't count on it. A first round corner would absolutely not shock me. In fact if my life depended on making the right guess, I would expect  to say hello to the corner from LSU at #9.

 

McClapper passed on Mahomes  and Watson to draft a corner. Why wouldn't he pass on a blocker?

 

I am with you on the tendencies of defensive-minded coaches to ignore their o-line needs. I think McBeane may actually buck the trend this year though, but I could see them grabbing a run-stuffing DT early as it is a deep position in the draft and the Bills are bad at stopping the run.

 

Hopefully, watching the steady march of QB's that went on IR (Garappolo, Dalton, Smith, McCoy), and others that were knocked out of their line-ups (Wentz, Rogers, and his own veteran backup Anderson), as well as the steady stream of Buffalo RB's injured behind a line that couldn't open any running lanes brought home the fact that teams don't run the ball, or protect very well if they have a bad o-line.

[Prickly Pete]

6 minutes ago, WideNine said:

 

I am with you on the tendencies of defensive-minded coaches to ignore their o-line needs. I think McBeane may actually buck the trend this year though, but I could see them grabbing a run-stuffing DT early as it is a deep position in the draft and the Bills are bad at stopping the run.

 

Hopefully, watching the steady march of QB's that went on IR (Garappolo, Dalton, Smith, McCoy), and others that were knocked out of their line-ups (Wentz, Rogers, and his own veteran backup Anderson), as well as the steady stream of Buffalo RB's injured behind a line that couldn't open any running lanes brought home the fact that teams don't run the ball, or protect very well if they have a bad o-line.

 

I think defensive coaches live in fear of having a weak secondary getting burned.

 

Lots of hard work by a defense can be frittered away instantly, and repeatedly, if you have a weak cornerback. Like, the guy can just be picked on all game. 

This inspires them to keep a steady supply of young CB's ready to step in at all times.

Edited January 6, 2019 by OJ Tom

[BeastMode54]

That has to be priority number one. I was listening to the radio before the game and they were talking about how Andrew Luck was 33/1 in the red zone this year, but the year before he was the most sacked qb in the league. Get the qb first and then build the line. I kniw he was great before, but overcoming his injury, having a great o-line frees up your head to make plays without the panic. Watson is really good, but he was sacked 62 times this year. With Brown gone and some injuries it hurt. You add a few o-line to Texans and they'll get better. If we can protect Josh so he has more confidence to stand in the pocket, and a weapon or two, it's an obvious recipe for success

[WideNine]

2 minutes ago, OJ Tom said:

 

I think defensive coaches live in fear of having a weak secondary getting burned.

 

Lots of hard work by a defense can be frittered away instantly, and repeatedly, if you have a weak cornerback. Like, the guy can just be picked on all game. 

This inspires them to keep a steady supply of young CB's ready to step in at all times.

 

I think the Bills are pretty flush with young secondary talent right now, and will be getting some more back from injury next year.

 

You hate to draft for need, but the o-line "needs" some love and I fear that even middling o-line FA talent will likely be overpriced - Beane needs to find that sweet spot between finding a 1 or 2 solid veteran players and o-line talent in the draft that can be groomed.

[TroutDog]

52 minutes ago, peterpan said:

Dont count on it.  Nothing McBean has dones so far tell me they value OL.  I would expect some more budget signings like Bodine.  And certainly no top 10 picks.

Nothin in Bean’s ONE draft has told you that???  Come on...

[Prickly Pete]

45 minutes ago, WideNine said:

 

I think the Bills are pretty flush with young secondary talent right now, and will be getting some more back from injury next year.

 

You hate to draft for need, but the o-line "needs" some love and I fear that even middling o-line FA talent will likely be overpriced - Beane needs to find that sweet spot between finding a 1 or 2 solid veteran players and o-line talent in the draft that can be groomed.

 

I certainly don't want them to use a high pick on the secondary! I'm just commenting on why CB's seem to be drafted by teams that might appear to have other , bigger needs.

 

I'm ALL FOR drafting an O-lineman with a high pick, and getting ahold of some veterans. I think the O-line is the Bills greatest need right now. My previous comments are regarding some fans here waxing on and on about how important the O-line is because the Colts won a wild card game.

 

The Bills O-line currently sucks. Get it to "above average" and it will suffice.

[RocCityRoller]

1 hour ago, Aussie Joe said:

 

2 of the Colts OL are rookies...

 

I don’t care where the Bills get them from, just get them from somewhere...

 

I am agreeing with you. I made that very point (Indy rookie OL) in a few posts.

 

I don't see fixing the OL in FA. Maybe 1 improvement at OL in FA is realistic. It's more realistic to improve WR, LB, DL in FA than OL.

 

Too many teams need OL, too few quality FA available, lots of FA money.

 

My point was that it may mean Buffalo drafts OL in Rounds 1,2 or 3 and 'reach' for RT, C or G in the draft this year.

 

It seems we are both ok with that.

 

What is your favorite OL in rounds 1 and 2?

 

At #9 I like:

Jawaan Taylor OT

AJ Brown at WR

plenty of DL and Edge to like at 9

 

 

[Prickly Pete]

5 minutes ago, RocCityRoller said:

 

I am agreeing with you. I made that very point (Indy rookie OL) in a few posts.

 

I don't see fixing the OL in FA. Maybe 1 improvement at OL in FA is realistic. It's more realistic to improve WR, LB, DL in FA than OL.....

 

 

 

 

I expect something like, 2 new players (probably a draft pick, and a FA) as starters, and another new starter from the guys already here. That is a pretty big turnover, especially with a new o-line coach on top of it.

 

Add a vet WR, a high draft pick WR, and probably a mid round RB and that's a new offense.

 

 

Edited January 6, 2019 by OJ Tom

[BuffaloButt]

3 hours ago, CaptnCoke11 said:

Their RG is a free agent after this season.. Glowinski.  Just sayin 

Addition for Bills, Subtraction for Colts!  Weaken our competition and strengthen our team! 

GO BILLS!!!

Edited January 6, 2019 by BuffaloButt

[JohnC]

4 hours ago, Bill from NYC said:

I have been posting this for 20 years. As much as we need blocking, don't count on it. A first round corner would absolutely not shock me. In fact if my life depended on making the right guess, I would expect  to say hello to the corner from LSU at #9.

 

McClapper passed on Mahomes  and Watson to draft a corner. Why wouldn't he pass on a blocker?

Gotham Bill, This year is different because we have already drafted our franchise qb. If I had to bet my money it would be on him selecting one of the top defensemen linemen in this linemen rich draft class. (Defensive HCs have a natural bias toward the defense). Right now my inclination is to draft Jonah Williams and still bring in a free agent or two to fortify the OL. I would also like to get a tough between the tackles runner. The focus should be on the offense and putting Josh Allen in a position to succeed. 

Edited January 6, 2019 by JohnC

[McBean]

Agreed 100%.

 

Protect Allen.

[Pete]

Prioritize making a dominant oline!  Give josh time to

throw, open up huge holes for our RBs!  There are plenty of defensive monsters entering draft.  Be proactive

[Estro]

Matt Paradis, is the apple of my eye, in FA.

 

We need a solid piece in the middle, C, was a dreadful spot for us in 2018.

 

He will cost a lot.  The highest paid center in the league currently make $10.5M/year, so you're looking at $11-$12M per for Paradis.

 

5 years - $60M is a lot, but I'd do it.

 

I would then follow that signing up with drafting a T and a G in the draft.  Bring in a bunch of bodies and hope to hit on 1 or 2.  

[WideNine]

3 minutes ago, RocCityRoller said:

 

I am agreeing with you. I made that very point (Indy rookie OL) in a few posts.

 

I don't see fixing the OL in FA. Maybe 1 improvement at OL in FA is realistic. It's more realistic to improve WR, LB, DL in FA than OL.

 

Too many teams need OL, too few quality FA available, lots of FA money.

 

My point was that it may mean Buffalo drafts OL in Rounds 1,2 or 3 and 'reach' for RT, C or G in the draft this year.

 

It seems we are both ok with that.

 

What is your favorite OL in rounds 1 and 2?

 

At #9 I like:

Jawaan Taylor OT

AJ Brown at WR

plenty of DL and Edge to like at 9

 

 

 

I am not sure I have seen enough to justify any of the LTs going 9th overall, and not enough difference between Greg Little and Jonah Wlliams to justify one going well before the other...

 

Cajuste is another good option. Watched some tape of Yodny and had to laugh at the write up 3 scouts had (2 said he needed to improve in pass-pro, but was a dominant run blocker, the 3rd said his run blocking needed improvement, but he was a wall in pass pro - you wonder if they watched the same games). Either way he has upside, can be dominant, and could be a good fit for the Bills too.

 

There are more than a few solid run blocking RTs that should be available in rounds 3-5. I liked both OL Deiter and C Biadasz from Wisconsin.

 

Deiter has played LG, LT, and C - having those kind of Offensive linemen that can backfill other spots on the line are extremely valuable IMO.

 

Biadasz recently decided to return to the Badgers for another year so he is no longer an option -  he was a consensus best player available at the center position, the next best center available is Elgton Jenkins. He, and I think only one other center will be at the senior bowl so folks should be able to get a nice long look at him going up against good competition.

 

We could sink the money into FA Paradis who will be coming off of injury, but likely worth the investment if Elway and Co. don't want to pay him.

Nice write-up about Paradis and how interior linemen are more in demand and getting more $.

 

https://247sports.com/nfl/denver-broncos/Article/What-is-C-Matt-Paradis-monetary-value-to-the-Denver-Broncos--119564661/

[SinceThe70s]

4 hours ago, Returntoglory said:

Watching the Colts game right now once again they put the graphic up of the offensive ranking from last year of the Colts and then with the addition of their first round pick and additional upgrades, Luck's O-Line is night and day and they are dominant!  This has to be the focus of the draft and free agency. 

 

Did any Bills fan on this board need to see the Colts game to determine we need big improvements on the OL? 

 

Master of the obvious.

 

When you see an elite WR have a big playoff game will you please remind us that one of those would be helpful too?

[TFBillsfan]

1 minute ago, Estro said:

Matt Paradis, is the apple of my eye, in FA.

 

We need a solid piece in the middle, C, was a dreadful spot for us in 2018.

 

He will cost a lot.  The highest paid center in the league currently make $10.5M/year, so you're looking at $11-$12M per for Paradis.

 

5 years - $60M is a lot, but I'd do it.

 

I would then follow that signing up with drafting a T and a G in the draft.  Bring in a bunch of bodies and hope to hit on 1 or 2.  

Paradis is at the top of my FA wish list along with Anthony Barr OLB. Draft Jonah Willams OT in the first and in the 3rd draft Ross Pierscbacher OG. He’ll be playing in his 4th national championship game for Alabama. We instantly improve our OL, infuse youth and should allow for OL consistency for the foreseeable future. Give me a TE in the 2nd, RB in the 4th, use some picks to trade up into the 3rd or 4th to grab a WR. Look to add another WR in FA. 

 

On paper, we should see a better running game which will make Allen even harder to defend if the opponent has to respect our running game. LB’s would be Edmunds, Milano and Barr.

 

Excited to see what they do this offseason! Let’s go Buffalo!

[Returntoglory]

10 minutes ago, SinceThe70s said:

 

Did any Bills fan on this board need to see the Colts game to determine we need big improvements on the OL? 

 

Master of the obvious.

 

When you see an elite WR have a big playoff game will you please remind us that one of those would be helpful too?

Feel better? Good. 

[Boca BIlls]

5 hours ago, Returntoglory said:

Watching the Colts game right now once again they put the graphic up of the offensive ranking from last year of the Colts and then with the addition of their first round pick and additional upgrades, Luck's O-Line is night and day and they are dominant!  This has to be the focus of the draft and free agency. 

Luck did it without an O-Line many times. 

[Returntoglory]

Just now, Boca BIlls said:

Luck did it without an O-Line many times. 

Luck, as his name implies

[BillsSbSoon]

14 minutes ago, Boca BIlls said:

Luck did it without an O-Line many times. 

He did, and then he eventually started getting killed and injured to the point there was doubt he would ever be the same

[SinceThe70s]

8 minutes ago, Returntoglory said:

Feel better? Good. 

 

Answering your own question.

 

Not responding to the question I asked.

 

Enough said.

[Boca BIlls]

Just now, BillsSbSoon said:

He did, and then he eventually started getting killed and injured to the point there was doubt he would ever be the same

He got injured b.c he played RB and actually hit defenders when he ran.

[Returntoglory]

2 minutes ago, SinceThe70s said:

 

Answering your own question.

 

Not responding to the question I asked.

 

Enough said.

I just find it amusing when someone feels the need to ridicule someone over something trivial like you have done. Does it make you feel better? We're you bullied in school? Daddy issues? Want to grab a latte and chat? ?

[BillsSbSoon]

17 minutes ago, Boca BIlls said:

He got injured b.c he played RB and actually hit defenders when he ran.

Yeah he was running cause their line couldnt protect him

[wppete]

Get 2 solid O-Linmen in Free Agency and 2 in the draft. We need to build this. 

[ColoradoBills]

23 minutes ago, wppete said:

Get 2 solid O-Linmen in Free Agency and 2 in the draft. We need to build this. 

 

Thanks for the post Wppete.  You can't rebuild a line in one year thru the draft or FA only.

They will need a mix.  Don't leave out some sort of trade either.

Edited January 6, 2019 by ColoradoBills

[SinceThe70s]

28 minutes ago, Returntoglory said:

I just find it amusing when someone feels the need to ridicule someone over something trivial like you have done. Does it make you feel better? We're you bullied in school? Daddy issues? Want to grab a latte and chat? ?

 

Trivial? Better? Bullied? Daddy? Latte? Chat? 

 

Have a nice day! 

[WideNine]

I wonder who McBeane and Daboll have in mind for O-Line coach?

 

We all agree they will be bringing in some fresh blood and hopefully some talented prospects...gonna need someone to coach them up.

[Nick the Greek]

6 hours ago, Bangarang said:

I’m sure that’s the plan

If not I sure hope McBeane is an avid reader of TBD message boards.

[BubbaT]

Amen! And don't be afraid to spend some top of the draft capital to do it! Per Eric Wood on Twitter:    

 

Not surprised by how well this Colts O Line has played this year. With 3 1st rounders, an early 2nd rounder and a 4th rounder (not their pick) they have invested heavily into it and it has paid off!

[BADOLBILZ]

5 hours ago, Dopey said:

Ah, the ole McClapper reference. Still don't get the issue with McDermott clapping. Why is it such a big deal?

 

Did he say it was a big deal?

 

Gruden got nicknamed "Chuckie" because he was constantly making contorted facial expressions whether the situation seemed to call for that level of emotional response or not............McD clapped incessantly/nervously in 2017 whether the play was good, bad or indifferent.   Hence McClappy or whatever. 

 

It was his MO.   Like Marrone with the use of the term "obviously".   Just a lack of self awareness wrt a nervous habit.    An awareness of your reactions/responses as a leader helps keep the message fresh and more constructive.    He seemed to do less of it this year.   

[Chicken Boo]

Easier said than done.

 

Drafting and signing a bunch of o-lineman does not a beast line make.

[Augie]

2 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Did he say it was a big deal?

 

Gruden got nicknamed "Chuckie" because he was constantly making contorted facial expressions whether the situation seemed to call for that level of emotional response or not............McD clapped incessantly/nervously in 2017 whether the play was good, bad or indifferent.   Hence McClappy or whatever. 

 

It was his MO.   Like Marrone with the use of the term "obviously".   Just a lack of self awareness wrt a nervous habit.    An awareness of your reactions/responses as a leader helps keep the message fresh and more constructive.    He seemed to do less of it this year.   

 

I don’t see it that way at all. It’s not a nervous habit, IMO, as much as it is an attempt to keep things positive, encouraging and upbeat. Even in the face of some ugly stuff. That can be a good thing. I have no problem with it whatsoever. 

[BADOLBILZ]

 

The Bills absolutely gotta' get better on the OL.

 

But I'm not sure they need to throw first round picks at the problem.

 

The Colts HAD to do whatever it took.........Andrew Luck was seriously busted up and needs to live in the pocket and not get hit.

 

Next year.........the opposing defense's GOAL will probably be to contain Josh Allen in the pocket more than to sack him..........they will want him to have to beat them from the pocket........the tape they review is going to show certain throws he couldn't make accurately and they will try to force those more than try to beat him into submission........it's a significantly different situation.   

 

[BADOLBILZ]

20 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

I don’t see it that way at all. It’s not a nervous habit, IMO, as much as it is an attempt to keep things positive, encouraging and upbeat. Even in the face of some ugly stuff. That can be a good thing. I have no problem with it whatsoever. 

 

 

The mindless clapping is a bad look when you subsequently struggle with clock management and other quick-trigger in game issues............like being 0-forever career on challenges.

 

Like I said McD did a lot less of it this year............I give him credit for being a self-scouter and open to fixing issues.

 

 And yes I do think overuse of terms or technique when conveying the message turns people off to it.  

 

I'm sure some of you have sat in biz meetings(high level, of course) with managers repeatedly using hackneyed catch phrases and it's like........you want to avoid being that guy as a leader.     Keeping it fresh and on-point is critical to keeping attention.

 

[BillsVet]

Building an OL is not something that's going to happen in one off-season.  The surface level view is that Buffalo use high picks and UFA and voila! we're good.

 

The reality is, a good OL group takes time to mesh and it's why OL play has suffered over the years.  Signing a Matt Paradis would be nice on paper but he's got to fit with what they're doing and how they're doing it.

 

The other issue is, from an economics standpoint, there's going to be a lot of demand for better OL and not much supply this off-season.  Lotta teams with plenty of cap room.    

 

 

[Augie]

2 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

The mindless clapping is a bad look when you subsequently struggle with clock management and other quick-trigger in game issues............like being 0-forever career on challenges.

 

Like I said McD did a lot less of it this year............I give him credit for being a self-scouter and open to fixing issues.

 

 And yes I do think overuse of terms or technique when conveying the message turns people off to it.  

 

I'm sure some of you have sat in biz meetings(high level, of course) with managers repeatedly using hackneyed catch phrases and it's like........you want to avoid being that guy as a leader.     Keeping it fresh and on-point is critical to keeping attention.

 

 

If people have a problem with clock management, I suggest they complain about specific aspects they have a problem with. The McClappy thing is tired and lazy. I’ve never heard him say anything that sounded trite. 

[Norcalbillsfan]

48 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

Building an OL is not something that's going to happen in one off-season.  The surface level view is that Buffalo use high picks and UFA and voila! we're good.

 

The reality is, a good OL group takes time to mesh and it's why OL play has suffered over the years.  Signing a Matt Paradis would be nice on paper but he's got to fit with what they're doing and how they're doing it.

 

The other issue is, from an economics standpoint, there's going to be a lot of demand for better OL and not much supply this off-season.  Lotta teams with plenty of cap room.    

 

 

Totally agree, very tough to go out and get 3 starting caliber o lineman in one year. Might be able to get 1 premier guy in FA, then maybe get another serviceable starter. Then hopefully a starter in the draft but not likely at 9 with a few teams ahead of us also needing lineman.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

With the post season comments about Oline and the firing of Castillo there will be major changes coming forthwith.