Victory Formation Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 16 minutes ago, SoTier said: LOL. If Mayfield or Darnold was the Bills QB, you'd be saying the same thing about rather having him over Allen No I wouldn't. Mayfield has a Drew Brees like ceiling. I just think Allen has a higher ceiling than that. Brady's career is winding down, Buffalo needs to go in for the kill and take over the division. Tannehill and Darnold do not stand a chance. Buffalo could hold down the division for the foreseeable future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drf1835 Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 (edited) 8 hours ago, Domdab99 said: My doctor said I'm definitely on the spectrum. Not sure what he meant. I think lots of the optimism we are seeing here is also because of his work ethic, smarts, attitude, leadership skills, and personality. That lessens any of the few concerns, and gives us more hope and willingness to be more patient. I mean, it is hard not to like him for those other untangibles. So, when you see his huge arm strength, elusiveness and running ability, the fun rarely seen before superman plays, and when we see some progress, one would have to be a real dope or biased to not have some optimism. I replied to this post as our two sons relate. It means you likely are gifted in some wonderful way. Edited December 6, 2018 by drf1835 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 15 minutes ago, Steptide said: To answer the original question, I'm in the cautiously optimistic crowd. I love Allen's fire. I can't remember the last qb we had who lost a game (on a 4-7 team) that looked like he had just lost the national championship game in college in his post game presser (speaking of Allen after the Miami loss this last Sunday). So yes I think there is something special there, but I'll contain my excitement for now. Really? Fitz looked like that after every defeat too. Allen is obviously way more talented than Fitz but Fitz took losses hard as well. 6 minutes ago, NewDayBills said: No I wouldn't. Mayfield has a Drew Brees like ceiling. I just think Allen has a higher ceiling than that. Brady's career is winding down, Buffalo needs to go in for the kill and take over the division. Tannehill and Darnold do not stand a chance. Buffalo could hold down the division for the foreseeable future. A higher ceiling than Drew Brees? You mean top 10 all time QB Drew Brees? You mean absolute lock 1st ballot HoFer Drew Brees? You think based on what you have seen so far Josh Allen has the potential to be better than one of the best 5 or 6 to have ever played the game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TroutDog Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 If you extrapolate the progress he has made so far, I am highly optimistic. I believe we have, finally, an answer at QB. Will he lead us to a SB and earn MVP honors? I have no clue but I love what he’s done this year physically and how he Is managing the mental aspects of the game (trash talking, holding his tongue, taking ownership, etc). Behind an actual line with actual receivers and a complementary run game, I fully expect this kid to do special things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory Formation Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: A higher ceiling than Drew Brees? You mean top 10 all time QB Drew Brees? You mean absolute lock 1st ballot HoFer Drew Brees? You think based on what you have seen so far Josh Allen has the potential to be better than one of the best 5 or 6 to have ever played the game? Allen and Mayfield will be the two players talked about from the 2018 draft. Mayfield will put up Drew Brees production next year most likely. I think Allen can do better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlando Tim Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 I was thi king about this topic this morning and he reminds of Doug Flutie but with height and a cannon arm- so i am very optimistic. That charles clay drop last week would have been a bighlight rell ay if clay did the basic version of his job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihilarian Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 11 hours ago, stuvian said: People compare him to Cam Newton but Cam Newton broke Peyton Manning's rookie passing records. I'll say Allen is Joe Flacco or Matt Ryan with wheels Plus, Cam Newton had an actual NFL team around him his rookie season and that 2011 team only went 6-10. All Josh Allen has is adversity. Newton had WR Steve Smith, 79 catches for 1394 yards, TE Greg Olsen, TE Jeremy Shockey, RB DeAngelo Williams. Not to mention a solid offensive line. Allen had a supposed #1 lazy WR that was just cut... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 Easy does it now. In this thread you have folks saying Mayfield is Brees and Allen will be even better. I am optimistic about Allen and Mayfield. For both it seems they are picking things up reasonably quickly and that they are getting things to slow down to where they van make the right reads. etc. And Allen especially adds another dimension with his running. But to place HOF career type expectations on either them, or to say a Darnold or Rosen or Jackson will either be great or terrible, is way premature. Fun to talk about, but way too early. My gut is that Allen and Mayfield will be long term guys, get their teams to the playoffs consistently, and if they get the right stuff done from coaches and front office staff could win the whole enchilada. Rosen and Jackson I'm not as sure about. Rosen I think is struggling a bit more to pick up the pro game in contradistinction to what was talked about pre-draft. And I'm not sure he has the physical stamina. Jackson has the running side to his game, even more so that Allen. But we'll have to see how he ultimately does in the passing game. I think both are in the league a while but could bounce around a bit. Darnold I'm not optimistic about. I think the media that is NYC will be an issue for him, and from what I've seen I think he'll be prone to poor decision making and throwing ill advised picks. He could of course mature out of that but right now he's the bottom of my list. And I don't see any of them yet matching what we saw in Kelly or see in Brees. There's a reason there's only like 30 QBs in the HOF. They may get there, they may not. Should be fun to watch though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 21 minutes ago, NewDayBills said: Allen and Mayfield will be the two players talked about from the 2018 draft. Mayfield will put up Drew Brees production next year most likely. I think Allen can do better. Better production than Drew Brees? I mean, I hope you are right but do you understand what a ridiculously high bar that is? Better production that one of the all time passing leaders and a certain top 10 arguably top 6 all time Quarterback? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw66 Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 I'm way up the curve. I'm trying to curb my enthusiasm. I think Allen is a star. I don't even include his running ability in my evaluation. Poise, pocket presence, command of the huddle, scrambling and escapability, and throwing ability are all first rate. He's smart and eager to learn. I think he's the best of his class and actually can be the best of his generation. And I'm back on the McBeane bandwagon. First because they were smart enough to identify Allen and find a way to get him. Next because they've created place where players want to play. Third, because McDermott builds sound defenses. Fourth, because they keep changing until they get it right. And I'm liking Daboll. But.mostly because of Allen. I'm excited. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat68 Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 He is carrying the offense. I dont remember how long it's been since that was case. Fitz still had Fredex and Spiller. Maybe Bledsoe was the last qb who really carried the unit. For a rookie to do that says alot. Scale to 10 I'm an 8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory Formation Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Better production than Drew Brees? I mean, I hope you are right but do you understand what a ridiculously high bar that is? Better production that one of the all time passing leaders and a certain top 10 arguably top 6 all time Quarterback? Baker Mayfield is putting up great numbers for a rookie, next year he is probably throwing for 40TDs with less INTS. That's within a margin you'd expect from Brees. You draft QBs #1 overall or #7 overall because you think they can perform at an elite level. Allen will probably put up similar overall yards and total TDs as Mayfield but more of it will be on the ground instead. New guys are taking over man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 6 minutes ago, NewDayBills said: Baker Mayfield is putting up great numbers for a rookie, next year he is probably throwing for 40TDs with less INTS. That's within a margin you'd expect from Brees. You draft QBs #1 overall or #7 overall because you think they can perform at an elite level. Allen will probably put up similar overall yards and total TDs as Mayfield but more of it will be on the ground instead. New guys are taking over man. And then you think Baker Mayfield will maintain that pace for 12 years presumably if he is going to equal Drew Brees? And Josh Allen will be doing even better for that period? Again, I hope you are right but if there are two players from this class able to match Drew Brees then it will be one of the all time great Quarterback classes. It would be remarkable if there were even one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjt328 Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 I always try to be realistic. When they drafted Josh Allen, I honestly was disappointed. After reviewing almost all of the games from his senior year, I just felt like he had too much to improve on. With all the "sure thing" quarterbacks that fail in this league, why draft such a huge project - especially when a more NFL-ready QB was staring them right in the face (Josh Rosen). Since training camp, I have closely followed Allen's progress. I read all the training camp reports I could find. I watched every preseason snap. I've read up on All-22 Reviews during the season, and gone back after the games to re-watch all of his plays. I'm very aware that Allen's rushing ability will only get him so far. He needs to become a good NFL passer to ultimately be successful. So every time he breaks out a 25-yard scramble, I'm excited for the team, but I take it with a grain of salt when considering his development. With that said... I think the potential we see in Allen's passing ability and his growth over the last 3-4 months has been very apparent. From pocket presence, to reading the defense, to release time, to accuracy, etc. He is improving. Now he's obviously still got a ways to go, and if the growth stops here - he will ultimately flame-out as a long-term starter in this league. No doubt. But at the same time, the improvement we are already seeing is more than we EVER got from EJ Manuel. He's already in a place that JP Losman took at least 2-3 seasons to reach. And I think his downside has already reached Tyrod Taylor/Ryan Fitzpatrick levels. Comparing Allen to the other rookie QBs around the league, you can see that all 5 guys are making similar mistakes. It's just too early to tell about any of them. The encouraging thing about Allen is that: a) He was considered "rawer" than the other guys about 6 months ago, and has already reached about the same level, and b) His potential/ceiling is much higher. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw66 Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 14 minutes ago, NewDayBills said: Baker Mayfield is putting up great numbers for a rookie, next year he is probably throwing for 40TDs with less INTS. That's within a margin you'd expect from Brees. You draft QBs #1 overall or #7 overall because you think they can perform at an elite level. Allen will probably put up similar overall yards and total TDs as Mayfield but more of it will be on the ground instead. New guys are taking over man. I agree the new guys are taking over. And in the group of new guys, there are a half dozen with the potential to be in the top 10 all time discussion. Goff, Wentz, Mayfield, Darnold, Allen, Mahomes. Guys with arms and moxie. Not saying any or all will be top 10, but those guys and maybe one or two more have the potential. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw66 Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 This comparison to recent Bill's QBs is a good way to look at it. He already certainly is past where Manuel ever was. He's already better than Losman ever was. Losman made more mistakes in his final season than Allen is making in his first. I wouldn't be too quick to say his floor is Taylor and Fitzpatrick is. I tend to agree, but those guys were pretty consistent veterans and Allen still could stumble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 26 minutes ago, mjt328 said: Comparing Allen to the other rookie QBs around the league, you can see that all 5 guys are making similar mistakes. It's just too early to tell about any of them. The encouraging thing about Allen is that: a) He was considered "rawer" than the other guys about 6 months ago, and has already reached about the same level, and b) His potential/ceiling is much higher. What's interesting to me is the difference among the rookies with respect to the "traditional" QB rating vs. ESPN's QBR ranking. Mayfield: 91.1/51.6 Darnold: 68.3/31.4 Allen: 66.3/50.4 Rosen: 68.2/31.1 Jackson: 73.5/38.5 After Baker's superior "traditional" rating all of the other rookies are roughly the same, but it appears only Allen and Mayfield are "helping" their teams more, if you buy into the QBR statistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 4 minutes ago, eball said: What's interesting to me is the difference among the rookies with respect to the "traditional" QB rating vs. ESPN's QBR ranking. Mayfield: 91.1/51.6 Darnold: 68.3/31.4 Allen: 66.3/50.4 Rosen: 68.2/31.1 Jackson: 73.5/38.5 After Baker's superior "traditional" rating all of the other rookies are roughly the same, but it appears only Allen and Mayfield are "helping" their teams more, if you buy into the QBR statistic. QBR is trash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrbojanglezs Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 How dare you assume that Bills fans are all autistic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Hammersticks Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 3 minutes ago, Mrbojanglezs said: How dare you assume that Bills fans are all autistic I know, right? That’s ignorant ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 I'm not nearly as smart as the fictional Detective Goren, but have just as many irksome quirks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 14 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: QBR is trash. Well, in a lot of respects so is the traditional QB rating. Anyway, it is what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 Just now, eball said: Well, in a lot of respects so is the traditional QB rating. Anyway, it is what it is. Passer rating is flawed. It is still a lot better than QBR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 23 minutes ago, Mrbojanglezs said: How dare you assume that Bills fans are all autistic just 1 out of 40 male members. so 1 more of 80 total Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RalphWilson'sNewWar Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 Best to just be patient before stamping Allen with any label. its a long road with so many on the field AND off the field hurdles that Allen will have to face and succeed with. Many of them he won’t be faced with in the next four games or even next season. Its a journey filled with so many dangers and trials. so Wait and see for me, 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
technobot Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 Count me in the cautiously optimistic crowd. I was fairly pessimistic post-draft, and during Allen's run pre-injury, Vikings game notwithstanding. Flipped to optimism after the Dolphins game. I really didn't know what I was supposed to be looking for in terms of "hope and progress", but I saw it in the Dolphins game. I think if the ask was to watch Allen dink and dunk down the field with 5-10 yard lasers, Tom Brady style, then it was setting myself up for disappointment. Perhaps he adds this to his game as he matures, but what I saw last Sunday was a playmaker. He is gradually improving as a passer, at least that's what I saw. Say what you want about running, but if it can be such a deadly component of Mahomes' game then why not Allen? I realize Allen isn't the passer is Mahomes is, but the Bills don't have the roster the Chiefs do, either. And as much as I want Allen to be "the best QB in Bills history, better than Kelly", I don't think this has to be the case. If the front office can assemble a quality roster, they can still win with Allen as more of a complementary piece, instead of being "the guy". Of course, if Allen hits his ceiling... look out, NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 I'm visible. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolishDave Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 Josh looks like he is going to be the type of QB you want leading your team when you are down by one score late in the 4th quarter. He has some kind of "win at all costs" and "never give up" attitude on gameday - and man I love that about him. If given a better offensive line (one that can execute a decent run game along with pass protect) - and given receivers with reliable hands - I think he could evolve into one of the best in the NFL. In the senior bowl game he sure looked like a superstar. He had a good offensive line and receivers that could catch. If the Bills get him those two pieces - he will succeed here. If they fail at that, my guess is Josh Allen becomes a backup QB in a couple years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joeziehmer Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 Aspergers now getting that out of way for this team in the spectrum of analysis and abilities should draft along the offensive line. It’s a defensively heavy draft but for just as many defensive linemen there will be an offensive linemen who can help compliment the team. Said it before and I’ll say it again Sam Mustipher is what we need at center without going into the mixture of overpaying in free agency. Going to be taking a look at other offensive linemen today and cutting and editing a video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HomeskillitMoorman Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 I'm optimistic about him overall, he's a playmaker. I'm not as optimistic in the coach or GM as far as their abilities to build around him. But as far as he goes, I think we have something. The question is obviously if he'll have the accuracy to be great rather than good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hemma Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 I think only 2 things could stop him: - injuries (especially concussions) - a bad fit, overly anal, cya Head Coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 Everyone knows where I stand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 2 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: Everyone knows where I stand Me too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blacklabel Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 Tough for me to put a label on this at this stage of his career. I think he's had two solid games in a row and he's flashed some big time ability. I'm with some other folks who have said they're cautiously optimistic. He makes enough plays to at least make you start thinking what the future could be if he continues to improve. But you never wanna get ahead of yourself because we've been fooled before. I truly hope he reaches his ceiling and wins the MVP some year, that'd be the most amazing way to shut up all of his doubters. Other than that, I gotta say that when I watch the dude play I definitely get the feeling that he has that "it" factor. That innate quality that you can't really teach, you know? That whole "ya either got it or you don't" type of thing. Of course he still has a long way to go but for me, I think he's made more good plays than bad (especially over the last two weeks) and I just get this sense about him that he's gonna be special. I really like the way he approaches the game. He doesn't get wrapped up in the outside talk, he doesn't look intimidated out there, he's not afraid of any throw so there's no limit on the types of route concepts Daboll can install, he has a swagger and a presence that this team hasn't had in ages. It's refreshing. McBeane drafted this kid because they see a lot of Cam Newton in him and they know how to win with a QB in that mold. If he puts it all together and if this front office can surround him with a solid offense, sky's the limit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 13 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: Everyone knows where I stand Out in an empty field? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Buffalo Joe Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 Strongest arm I've seen in decades. Has a lot of work to do, but with the right people around him, I think he has great potential. Very optomistic, but not ready to crown him the next Jim Kelly just yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joeziehmer Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 1 minute ago, The Real Buffalo Joe said: Strongest arm I've seen in decades. Has a lot of work to do, but with the right people around him, I think he has great potential. Very optomistic, but not ready to crown him the next Jim Kelly just yet. More like John Elway in his rookie year, needs a compliment of offensive linemen, and the team is driven by youth. Rhythmic quick passes and needs speed to match the dynamics of it being quick strike team. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 8 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said: Out in an empty field? Well it kinda felt like that for a while when it comes to Josh Allen.....but slowly ppl are coming in and pitching a tent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike in Horseheads Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 I got rid of Spectrum and went to DirecTV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 Jury still out? I think Allen has the potential to be a top 5 QB in the league. Allen has the size and mobility you want, he has arguably the strongest arm in the league, he also has a very quick and compact release. The question is will Allen develop his footwork and decision making? If Allen doesn't develop that decision making and footwork he won't develop the accuracy and approach to the game needed to be a high end starting caliber QB. I hope to see Allen take a step up next year when he has a year under his belt and hopefully the team massively upgrades the offensive talent around him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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